Drug assisted therapy sounds like another hit and miss idea, which will make money for some and prove more harm than good. How, when we understand healing ways without drugs, can anyone justify using an approach like this? Jeffrey Mousseif Masson was clear in his book, Against Therapy, we do not need therapy or psychiatrists, we need understanding friends/communities and to stay away from toxic people and situations, and drugs. We are not sick and, as often happens, the therapist holds the power as the ‘guide’ and the holder of the drug, the client is vulnerable in their ‘mind altered’ state and open to poorly constructed messaging.
Only the wise people in indigenous groups used drugs and trained over a lifetime. The ‘wise men’ took them to gather information from spirits to guide the group. They were rarely used by everyday people in the group and if they were they were very carefully guided and monitored by the wise man. A very different model to what is being described here.
I’m very clear, this ‘therapy’ is seriously misconceived.
Knowing the facts, in my experience, does not protect one from the abuses of psychiatry or society. In fact, trying to discuss the facts with your doctor or psychiatrist or mental health worker or family or anyone involved in your life who, at any moment can call the cops or the CATT team, will make your life hell. Knowing the facts is madness making, in my experience, because, where you trusted ‘they’ knew what they were doing, you realised you were had, lied to.
Knowing the facts, when you are locked into an abusive system you cannot get away from, is the scariest thing on the face of this planet. For most, theres only one way out.
Corrine, such a timely and worthwhile article. ‘Unlearning the stories” that hold us back from discovering who we are and connecting honestly with others. I go with that as being the first step in being at peace with what is. You highlight the importance of understanding that our view of everything is clouded by our own mind set/attitudes/stories. Thank you for sharing such a sensitive and caring approach. I hope I can read more of your work on MIA.
I’m coming in a bit late to this discussion, so passion has likely gone cold. I read Ron’s article and every comment, and what an emotional roller coaster that was! Very much like my journey in ‘the system’. Yes, I have long since realised the culture of the psychiatric monopoly will not change. And I agree that abolition is necessary. A recognition of harm, on a global level, such as is beginning to happen with church institutions, is essential for healing. What I find I have to be careful of, when I read these powerful comments, is allowing hope to spark up in me. I find if I let that happen, I set my self up to fall emotionally, because it’s only talk amongst fellow activists. For me, all I can do is pay personal witness to the harms and entreaty others to stay away, ‘look what happened to me’, I say. There is power in the word NO! Say it strong and loud, and make sure you take two supports with you.
Change begins and ends with our own willingness to retain autonomy and say no. The very quickly put a gap between the doctor and ourselves. When others seeing this maybe they will feel strong enough to do this themselves.
I agree, Psych Drug Withdrawal in a supportive community, is a powerful two finger salute to psychiatry. I want to do this in New Zealand, but I need the support of an experienced mentor who has done this themselves.
Malcolm, you have given Abe voice in a way that shows the deep respect and love you have for your son. What a huge amount of energy this situation has drained from yourself and your whole family. You are living the reality where there is no justice. That is the world of psychiatry. They take, you give – everything. This power stealing is reflected in the stories of so many. I personally would like to hear/read a psychiatrists perspective on this matter. Enforced helplessness is hard to experience, (that’s why we fall sick when we read medical notes and communications from psychiatry). We fool ourselves into believing psychiatry will change; the government will step in; if I protest enough; challenge in court, write letters, but …..
Where do we put our hope?
Somehow peace will be found beyond flesh, blood and human fear. Listen, is that peace in the wind? Or under the wing of an albatross, the fall of water, floating mist?
Rest.
I wish you and your whole whanau peace. I wish Abe peace. Kia Manawanui, (be of great heart) kia arohanui, (may your world expand with grace), kia wairua, (may the spirit of peace rest in you).
Thank you to all the people who have commented above. Certainly a tragedy shared has been helpful. I find I thirst for open dialogue on ways in which peers and family can find common ground as a means to strengthen the impetus for change. IT’s a funny thing that this world is changing so rapidly but psychiatry is stuck in a time warp, and the institutions and people within them stay stuck. Just like the freaked out animal cornered in a trap, fear based practice continues; the broken record. I do wonder that if we all, en masse, just said “NO!” when confronted with labels and drugs, what would happen? (We would need to be trained in how to physically protect our loved ones). Direct action at the coal face.
1. Always go to psych interviews with at least two other support people.
2. Be prepared to stand up and walk out.
3. State your position clearly and decisively.
4. Have your decision on paper and legally endorsed ahead of your interview.
5. Draw up your recovery plan and have a copy ready for your doctor.
6. Should he choose not to endorse it, leave the room and find someone who will.
Am I just dreaming?
So do I. So now we see how 20 years of critical psychiatry has deflected the attention and energy of those of us who want to stop the harm and want healing approaches mainstreamed. And we are labelled anti psychiatry as if we are bad. That’s reverse blame.
Put down the tennis racket and exit the court. Let’s play ball with those who genuinely want to heal.
Hot anger i get but explain cold anger if you will.
Yes i too found a salve in putting blame where the harm was being perpetrated and agree that society colludes in maintaining this paradigm. But somehow we don’t move past the blame. Anger consumes us and deflects our energy and change alludes us.
So replacing anger and blame by redirecting our energy away from that which harms towards that which heals is a task we all in this MIA community must accept.
Psychiatry persists because we, survivors, families, friends are distracted by the cannons on the battlefield, (what terrible thing are they doing now?). Our attention should be focussed on the destination, peer respite and self determination. Let’s all do everything we can to point others in that direction. Stuff the enemy! Let them shoot themselves out of a job.
Thank you for this important discussion, one that is central to the push for a change away from medical intervention in psychological distress. Human rights law is ignored constantly by psychiatry here in NZ and there is not a single place one can go to get accountability for this, even though NZ is has ratified the CRPD Optional Protocol. Someone said to me that even if NZ Mental Health Law was brought into line with Human Rights it wouldn’t change clinical practice, (they are a law unto themselves). So if psychiatry is unwilling to acknowledge iatrogenic harm, and critique of this is labelled anti psychiatry I have to question what power the International CRPD really has to bring a country to account for abuses to its citizens? Whoever has drummed up this term ‘anti psychiatry’ is only doing so to malign those that point out the harm caused. I see it as the same process behind the term ‘anti-vax’ which is being used as a powerful vilification of anyone who questions the safety of vaccinations.
I have found that the interference from services has a direct impact on relationships. The impact of the effects of meds the stigma and the guilt and blame all negatively effect connection. And I don’t know how to avoid that.
It’s true. That I have made things worse by voicing my concerns was a reality very hard to learn. And I don’t think the clinicians would ever trust me if I started agreeing with them. I also wonder if Tama would wonder which is story and which is truth. It messes with my head so I stay out of it at Tama’s request. For him they have said he won’t leave until he accepts clozapine
I agree danzig666, prescribing is based on an ideology that the brain is causing the ‘issues’. But it is mind, our thoughts, our stories that we habitually run and re run and create our suffering. You cannot drug that away. Working from a psycho/spiritual, or existential position we understand that as social animals human behaviours, feelings and thoughts come out of psychosocial and spiritual interactions with ‘the group dynamic’, we do not operate as isolated individuals. I refuse to accept the ideology of assuming it is our responsibility to relieve another’s ‘suffering’ through ‘interventions’ and ‘doing to’ such as prescribing drugs, since we know this paradigm is founded on a theory without substance and manipulates the client into a powerless role, (eg, ‘you don’t have the capacity to work this out or live with this within yourself’). Throw that out the window. Start first from the basis of mind sovereignty or mana (Maori word) , that is, do not assume the right to impose your views and strategies on another.
I like Peter Breggin’s approach, if a client comes to him and wants drugs he tells them to find someone prepared to prescribe. He fully understands the implications of facilitating his clients down that black hole, for himself as well as for his client. It becomes a choice between professional integrity and full responsibility to your client or to collude with a harmful ideology.
Drug assisted therapy sounds like another hit and miss idea, which will make money for some and prove more harm than good. How, when we understand healing ways without drugs, can anyone justify using an approach like this? Jeffrey Mousseif Masson was clear in his book, Against Therapy, we do not need therapy or psychiatrists, we need understanding friends/communities and to stay away from toxic people and situations, and drugs. We are not sick and, as often happens, the therapist holds the power as the ‘guide’ and the holder of the drug, the client is vulnerable in their ‘mind altered’ state and open to poorly constructed messaging.
Only the wise people in indigenous groups used drugs and trained over a lifetime. The ‘wise men’ took them to gather information from spirits to guide the group. They were rarely used by everyday people in the group and if they were they were very carefully guided and monitored by the wise man. A very different model to what is being described here.
I’m very clear, this ‘therapy’ is seriously misconceived.
Report comment
Knowing the facts, in my experience, does not protect one from the abuses of psychiatry or society. In fact, trying to discuss the facts with your doctor or psychiatrist or mental health worker or family or anyone involved in your life who, at any moment can call the cops or the CATT team, will make your life hell. Knowing the facts is madness making, in my experience, because, where you trusted ‘they’ knew what they were doing, you realised you were had, lied to.
Knowing the facts, when you are locked into an abusive system you cannot get away from, is the scariest thing on the face of this planet. For most, theres only one way out.
Report comment
Corrine, such a timely and worthwhile article. ‘Unlearning the stories” that hold us back from discovering who we are and connecting honestly with others. I go with that as being the first step in being at peace with what is. You highlight the importance of understanding that our view of everything is clouded by our own mind set/attitudes/stories. Thank you for sharing such a sensitive and caring approach. I hope I can read more of your work on MIA.
Report comment
I’m coming in a bit late to this discussion, so passion has likely gone cold. I read Ron’s article and every comment, and what an emotional roller coaster that was! Very much like my journey in ‘the system’. Yes, I have long since realised the culture of the psychiatric monopoly will not change. And I agree that abolition is necessary. A recognition of harm, on a global level, such as is beginning to happen with church institutions, is essential for healing. What I find I have to be careful of, when I read these powerful comments, is allowing hope to spark up in me. I find if I let that happen, I set my self up to fall emotionally, because it’s only talk amongst fellow activists. For me, all I can do is pay personal witness to the harms and entreaty others to stay away, ‘look what happened to me’, I say. There is power in the word NO! Say it strong and loud, and make sure you take two supports with you.
Change begins and ends with our own willingness to retain autonomy and say no. The very quickly put a gap between the doctor and ourselves. When others seeing this maybe they will feel strong enough to do this themselves.
I agree, Psych Drug Withdrawal in a supportive community, is a powerful two finger salute to psychiatry. I want to do this in New Zealand, but I need the support of an experienced mentor who has done this themselves.
Report comment
Malcolm, you have given Abe voice in a way that shows the deep respect and love you have for your son. What a huge amount of energy this situation has drained from yourself and your whole family. You are living the reality where there is no justice. That is the world of psychiatry. They take, you give – everything. This power stealing is reflected in the stories of so many. I personally would like to hear/read a psychiatrists perspective on this matter. Enforced helplessness is hard to experience, (that’s why we fall sick when we read medical notes and communications from psychiatry). We fool ourselves into believing psychiatry will change; the government will step in; if I protest enough; challenge in court, write letters, but …..
Where do we put our hope?
Somehow peace will be found beyond flesh, blood and human fear. Listen, is that peace in the wind? Or under the wing of an albatross, the fall of water, floating mist?
Rest.
I wish you and your whole whanau peace. I wish Abe peace. Kia Manawanui, (be of great heart) kia arohanui, (may your world expand with grace), kia wairua, (may the spirit of peace rest in you).
Report comment
Thank you to all the people who have commented above. Certainly a tragedy shared has been helpful. I find I thirst for open dialogue on ways in which peers and family can find common ground as a means to strengthen the impetus for change. IT’s a funny thing that this world is changing so rapidly but psychiatry is stuck in a time warp, and the institutions and people within them stay stuck. Just like the freaked out animal cornered in a trap, fear based practice continues; the broken record. I do wonder that if we all, en masse, just said “NO!” when confronted with labels and drugs, what would happen? (We would need to be trained in how to physically protect our loved ones). Direct action at the coal face.
1. Always go to psych interviews with at least two other support people.
2. Be prepared to stand up and walk out.
3. State your position clearly and decisively.
4. Have your decision on paper and legally endorsed ahead of your interview.
5. Draw up your recovery plan and have a copy ready for your doctor.
6. Should he choose not to endorse it, leave the room and find someone who will.
Am I just dreaming?
Report comment
So do I. So now we see how 20 years of critical psychiatry has deflected the attention and energy of those of us who want to stop the harm and want healing approaches mainstreamed. And we are labelled anti psychiatry as if we are bad. That’s reverse blame.
Put down the tennis racket and exit the court. Let’s play ball with those who genuinely want to heal.
Report comment
Hot anger i get but explain cold anger if you will.
Yes i too found a salve in putting blame where the harm was being perpetrated and agree that society colludes in maintaining this paradigm. But somehow we don’t move past the blame. Anger consumes us and deflects our energy and change alludes us.
So replacing anger and blame by redirecting our energy away from that which harms towards that which heals is a task we all in this MIA community must accept.
Psychiatry persists because we, survivors, families, friends are distracted by the cannons on the battlefield, (what terrible thing are they doing now?). Our attention should be focussed on the destination, peer respite and self determination. Let’s all do everything we can to point others in that direction. Stuff the enemy! Let them shoot themselves out of a job.
Report comment
Thank you for this important discussion, one that is central to the push for a change away from medical intervention in psychological distress. Human rights law is ignored constantly by psychiatry here in NZ and there is not a single place one can go to get accountability for this, even though NZ is has ratified the CRPD Optional Protocol. Someone said to me that even if NZ Mental Health Law was brought into line with Human Rights it wouldn’t change clinical practice, (they are a law unto themselves). So if psychiatry is unwilling to acknowledge iatrogenic harm, and critique of this is labelled anti psychiatry I have to question what power the International CRPD really has to bring a country to account for abuses to its citizens? Whoever has drummed up this term ‘anti psychiatry’ is only doing so to malign those that point out the harm caused. I see it as the same process behind the term ‘anti-vax’ which is being used as a powerful vilification of anyone who questions the safety of vaccinations.
Report comment
I have found that the interference from services has a direct impact on relationships. The impact of the effects of meds the stigma and the guilt and blame all negatively effect connection. And I don’t know how to avoid that.
Report comment
It’s true. That I have made things worse by voicing my concerns was a reality very hard to learn. And I don’t think the clinicians would ever trust me if I started agreeing with them. I also wonder if Tama would wonder which is story and which is truth. It messes with my head so I stay out of it at Tama’s request. For him they have said he won’t leave until he accepts clozapine
Report comment
I agree danzig666, prescribing is based on an ideology that the brain is causing the ‘issues’. But it is mind, our thoughts, our stories that we habitually run and re run and create our suffering. You cannot drug that away. Working from a psycho/spiritual, or existential position we understand that as social animals human behaviours, feelings and thoughts come out of psychosocial and spiritual interactions with ‘the group dynamic’, we do not operate as isolated individuals. I refuse to accept the ideology of assuming it is our responsibility to relieve another’s ‘suffering’ through ‘interventions’ and ‘doing to’ such as prescribing drugs, since we know this paradigm is founded on a theory without substance and manipulates the client into a powerless role, (eg, ‘you don’t have the capacity to work this out or live with this within yourself’). Throw that out the window. Start first from the basis of mind sovereignty or mana (Maori word) , that is, do not assume the right to impose your views and strategies on another.
I like Peter Breggin’s approach, if a client comes to him and wants drugs he tells them to find someone prepared to prescribe. He fully understands the implications of facilitating his clients down that black hole, for himself as well as for his client. It becomes a choice between professional integrity and full responsibility to your client or to collude with a harmful ideology.
Report comment