Thursday, October 28, 2021

Comments by James Hall

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  • wmr25,

    I am hanging in there, I have learned a lot about what happened to me and how I react to things now – So I have developed some good coping mechanisms and ways of life that help rather than hurt the situation. In that way things are better but if anything goes wrong i quickly remember just how bad things have been and can be now. I am very grateful that i have been able to figure things out and have been able to effect some improvement.

    Id love to have that conversation as well, I don’t ever get tired of having it with everyone i meet. Its so incredibly important and everyone has a unique perspective that is important to learn from. I think if we could all learn from each other readily these enormous problems would become small very quickly.

    Thank you for the prayers – they make a huge difference, there are no small voices in that way and every ones voice is critically important in every way they make it so.

  • Howdy Boans,

    I hope you are as well as you can be.

    The lack of evidence perspective was particularly interesting as you said. I have run into similar mentalities and have noticed it in observance of myself. In the absence of anything observable, the void is likely filled with projection. An aggressive western state will project aggression just like a cheating spouse will accuse the other partner of cheating themselves. I have to admit i think this usually plays out if an entity is looking for something – likely power of some sort. A particularly unnerving dimension of humanity.

    Most of us see what we want to see. Those who can see reality are in the extreme minority.

    I think the difference may be character. I think those of us who quest to improve themselves and not others are likely to determine the true nature of reality. As we are really only able to understand the world through the lens of things we have observed and understood for ourselves. If we spend time reflecting on that it can be great, if not it will likely be very little. What are your thoughts?

    Psychiatric diagnosis and approaches focus so much on others and not the one making the diagnosis, it is rife with incredibly dangerous paradoxes and fallacies. Certainly the strike first mentality takes a strong hold. Self preservation should be a high priority when your poisoning and controlling someone else.

    The team B conclusions are very interesting, if you observe intelligence operations for long enough a pattern emerges and I am not sure its that difficult to understand that the aims are always the same and it can be fairly easy to see through, although others may tell us otherwise, hahaha.

    I have included some quality evidence below if your interested. I call it quality evidence not because i trust the sources, but because they match my lived experience and the hundreds of people i have now spoken to about this type of injury.

    Its all just a validation of the truth, and once you’ve seen it and felt it – you cant be fooled any longer. The lies are for those who weren’t there and don’t know what its like.

  • JanCarol –

    I just reread this comment after quite some time and i just wanted to say that it turns out Havana Syndrome is virtually identical to TMS injury.

    A friend of mind send me a host of documents after reading my second article and seeing similarities. It turns out they could vary well be the same thing just with a different applicator or method but inherently the same damage is being caused. The injuries shared in released documents match TMS injury all but identically.

  • Brilliant, that is not always the easy decision but its one I have fully embraced after all the harm TMS did to me.

    I think often times we are a little too quick to jump to psychiatric interventions just because they make big promises and are widely accepted, when in fact they are very dangerous – whether those dangers are disclosed to us or not.

  • mlwalton13 –

    Thank you so much for searching for answers, many people don’t and end up getting hurt because they trust blindly those who do not merit that trust. I know that caregiver roll can be quite hard. I am thankful beyond words to the family that has taken care of me, but i know it has been incredibly difficult for them, maybe even more difficult that it was on me.

    After harm from TMS, I have put my faith in the human bodies ability to heal itself. To that end I have endeavored to eat just all natural whole foods, exercise everyday, help my community and pursue the things i enjoy so that my mind and body may find healing. I think evolutionary this is how we were able to heal in the past. Its hard for me to believe we would have survived if that was not the case. It may be worth giving a shot.

    Best of luck to you as well.

  • bbenditt,

    Not only is the list of people severely injured by TMS growing exponentially by the day, I am hearing from more and more people who have become overtly injured by their second round of TMS.

    This serves as a validation to the evidence of electrical injury because this is the same thing we see with ECT survivors. For the majority of ECT patients, reported benefits wear off somewhere around the 6 month mark on average, which gets them back looking at ECT to help them again, if there was some perceived benefit. This cycle repeats again six months or less after the next set of treatments. This is reverently referred to by the ECT harm community as the death spiral, where the repeated harms that were once not noticeable eventually stack up until the patients are severely injured or killed by the treatment. We are seeing the exact same thing with TMS.

    If you look at the physics of the treatment, it is virtually impossible to come out of TMS unharmed. You are exposed to hundreds if not thousands of times more electromagnetic energy than is safe for a human to be around, let alone directly applied to the brain. Feel free to read my follow up article outlining the applied physics and harms of the treatment That being the case, the only question is whether you can perceive the harms being done or not. Most people are spellbound by the cognitive impairment generated by TMS and mistake it for improvement, or the endocrine system simulates feelings of well being to try and offset the damage the body has undergone. Hence the very short efficacy time of treatment, the same you have admitted here in your own comments. If TMS worked so well, why are you back for more treatments so soon? Just like psychiatric medications, it is a revolving door. It can create the illusion of efficacy just long enough for you to think its successful, and then by suffering from delayed harms it is creating a revolving door where you run right back to it with the mistaken idea that it healed you when it actually harmed you.

    The therapeutic mechanism of TMS is unproven and undocumented, the only evidence out there is subjective and theoretical. However the mechanism of harms for this level of electrical and magnetic energy is well documented.

    It is also supremely offensive to say that TMS harms are incredibly rare and to suggest that the treatment should escape scrutiny for that reason. I have personally talked to hundreds of people whose lives are completely upended with constant misery and suffering, they are real and they are significant – far more significant in number and evidentiary finding than the people who have reported relief from it.

    Your praising TMS and Prozac when they are likely responsible for your predicament. On top of that I am not sure you conveyed an original thought on either one, but repeated drug and device company rhetoric to me here.

    Perhaps you should reevaluate your situation when looking for a solution? So far every single person i have met and spoken with had relatively small mental struggles, but after a few rounds of psych meds or other psychiatric treatment they are scrambling for anything that will help relieve the mental pain and suffering they are in. Good mental health is incompatible with pills and electricity and they will never be the answer in any form. They may distract or provide temporary relief but this is a slippery slope as the often forgotten small detail is that all medications are poison and all treatments cause harm. The object of the game is to cure a problem in exchange for a temporary harm but what medicine has orchestrated most typically is trading the harm for symptom relief and no cure, this is a losing game and most don’t realize the real harm they have done because it comes from a friendly face.

  • Quite Right Sam, I am almost done with these Youtube videos and I am quite concerned about the hypothesizing going on and its lack of practical application and its lack of emphasis on patient safety.

    JanCarol – You are on it, I have a strong feeling this tech was used to inflict harm quite awhile ago, and the fact that we are hearing about it being used in this way now indicates its is being used very often and in a wide scope of operations, as in the past i am sure it did not make it into the media. I am sure it does not hurt the usage profile that it causes cognitive impairment and probably increases suggestibility while it is causing damages. Interesting side note, someone reached out and told me the DOD had gotten ahold of this and was working with it a long time ago, we know it was being utilized by the VA over 20 years ago, so you can imagine how and why that came to be. No real way to substantiate these things of course but what we do know of history certainly lends to the consideration that it may well be true.

  • In recent months this theory has been brought to my attention. It is quite interesting, especially given the things i have seen and heard in relation to people who have been harmed by TMS. I have seen people so incredibly anxious after TMS that they no longer sleep and have developed POTS, which even led to heart failure, and this has lasted well beyond a year without any noticeable dissipation. I have also observed the opposite, patients so depressed and fatigued that they can no longer exercise, think, or even really get out of bed much or take care of themselves. They have even had tests come back showing serious impediment to their metabolism, also lasting years. This lends credibility to these hypotheses on the inhibitory and excitatory effects of TMS, and while this proves exciting for those looking to reverse the effects there are some serious objections that would have to be overcome. There is also the matter of the other symptoms that present as well, the neuromuscular problems, migraines, cognition problems etc. these all present along side the excitatory and inhibitory symptoms so they are a very large fly in the soup of this theory that this is even a static observable and repeatable feature of TMS, it could simply be a variable manifestation of harm being spread across different areas of the brain, which is largely random due to the huge water content and differences in density of brain matter across patient populations. We may see commonalities in the way treatment is applied but it does not mean that the inhibitory and excitatory effects are exclusive to this exact way TMS is applied, although I am sure many clever scientists would insist its true.

    The first is that all of these effects are subordinate to physics. Electromagnetic waves are inherently dangerous to the brain, body and its workings. The magnetic energy has been proven to be harmful especially at this intense level and rapidly alternating electrical fields of this magnitude have proven even more harmful. They inextricably cause irreversible electroporation at small levels of amperage and TMS is done at incredibly higher levels. If this procedure causes cell death, harms and dysregulates other cellular processes, there is no practical point in entertaining this as a treatment let alone a further application to reverse damages already done. It is guaranteed to do additional damages. While some may argue that this would be preferable under certain circumstances, like trading one set of symptom improvement for worsening others, i would argue that is a slippery slope and offers high risk with little to no chance of reward, is not a worthy course and violates the, now a days elusive, ‘Do no harm’ approach.

    Second, is the rational problem with TMS and the subsequent problem reversing problems generated by it with the same treatment. I have not found any evidence that TMS is even effective in treating depression, anxiety or any other human unpleasantness, so there is little reason to believe the ideas about inhibitory and excitatory effects. While this may be a controversial idea, its an evidence based one, there are no trials of good quality and size that are not funded by industry money that have shown TMS can be more effective placebo. Furthermore I have only met one or two persons who said TMS helped them and they had no side effects, out of hundreds of others who have had no help or have been harmed, so my known pool of experiential evidence tells me the same. The therapeutic mechanism of TMS is also unknown, no one can directly explain how TMS effects patients favorably for any given condition. So, while scientists and medical professionals present their own brand of evidence that TMS can have this inhibitory or excitatory effect on the brain, it is hardly reliable and has not been proven in an objectively provable way, along with any other aspect of TMS.

    In conclusion, what we do know is that fundamental physics tell us TMS does damage to the brain and CNS, also that we know very little about the brain generally speaking, and claims about TMS are highly unreliable because TMS scientists are poorly informed and interested in furthering their own work and not patient outcomes. Given all these facts, the claims we are looking at are likely not true, outcomes have a high level of uncertainty and a higher likelihood of failure or further injury.

    I really do get the draw of this fanciful idea that medical science is so advanced we can whip up some invisible fields and cure any unpleasantness in our lives. However it is a dangerous draw not because we humans aren’t brilliant or because we have not made large strides in treating acute trauma, but moreover because the brain and CNS are so incredibly complex and as such we are far too arrogant and intent on profiteering in our endeavors to create safe and effective medical interventions to them. To put it another way the more I learn, the less I believe in the simplicity of the claims of simply exciting certain parts of the brain or inhibiting others(I have seen opposite reactions in both cases), I think that is a really huge oversimplification of what is happening, it could be an observed generalization but its really not a fair description of what is actually taking place, just because people undergoing physiological harm to their brain can generally only be in an anxious or depressed state, doesn’t mean that TMS can accurately cause an excitatory or inhibitory effect and as such I am highly skeptical any problems could be rectified in that way.

    I see these Youtube videos are fairly long, I will make some time to take a look soon. Thank you very much for sharing this information, the more we learn the better off we are and I especially am always learning more about these topics every day. If I have any additional thoughts change based on the videos I will respond again.

  • Fantastic piece Miranda!

    I do hope these issues get moved to the forefront of our culture instead of the talent itself. The talent must be secondary to how we handle and utilize it in the first place. It may seem counterintuitive but we have put the cart before the horse. It’s a shame that this issue has to be blown up in this context for most people to even understand it exists as well.

    Thank you for the deep dive, I learned so much.

  • okboomer,

    Excellent question. After consulting with counsel, we found out that I had signed documents when I was terminated that relinquished most of my rights to legal action in order to get some compensation for them letting me go. Counsel still offered to take the case, but said it would be extremely emotionally draining and take a year or more, and I would only get a very small amount of compensation, maybe a month or two’s salary. I asked if I was entitled to Punitive damages because it was an ADA claim and they said yes, but judges just do not grant those damages, they always refuse them.

    When I aggregated all these factors, including being within the first year of my TMS injury and trying to figure out how I would keep myself alive in the coming months, i decided not to pursue it even though it was still a very hard decision. Another part of that decision was that i wanted to spend any time I could pursuing legal action against the manufacturer, which I have. I determined at that time I would much rather pursue something that benefits others in the long run, with the manufacturer suit.

    I faced another stark reality, abuses by employers against disabled persons happens very very commonly and even if disabled persons take legal action they are granted very little compensation. Counsel also advised me that she had spent significant time litigating the company I worked for in the past and that it was very clear it would be a protracted battle as they spend as much time and money needed trying to muscle out anyone that makes a claim against them, and its very arduous for opposing counsel. I will give my counsel credit for that, she offered to go after them simply for the fight and without the chance of any real profit, that was her thing and I think it was quite cool.

    Pretty sad to acknowledge the reality that Large corporations spend exorbitant amounts of money trying to avoid compensating wrongful termination and ADA claims against them, pretty savage. Far more money than they would pay out in the claims to disabled and disenfranchised individuals.

  • Howdy Boans,

    I hope you are as well as you can be.

    I did not know you spent time in the arctic.

    I am glad i can help provide some validation in the area. I plan to keep writing about it. I have found it of profound importance that people begin to understand exactly how it works and the state of the legal system and those that participate in it. There seems to be a really large amount of misconception about it and even more misplaced confidence. I did not find it hard to learn about or understand these things, but yet everywhere I look people are seriously misunderstanding it. I think Media has a hand in that, as with everything else it seems, people begin to latch on to and form ideas of what our legal system is like based on the news and dramatic representations and reality is really stranger than the fiction we read and see on it.

    I remember the details and information you gave me quite awhile ago, and set out to either disprove them or validate them – along with what i had heard form many others, and this is where I have landed.

    It seems the legal system is another mechanism that can be paid for to do terrible things and in contrast has to be paid for to do the right thing as well and if you don’t have the money up front, you cannot afford justice or fair treatment. In your situation, those with control, motive and means could fairly easy torture and control you with no repercussions, I don’t really see my situation as being fundamentally much different, I just wasn’t trying to be controlled, I was just a bystander in the way of profits, and once they profited from my harm(the definition of fraud in the US) I had no recourse for justice or compensation.

    I will gladly keep you informed, I am still gathering my thoughts and the details of how it plays out but I plan on allowing our community to be able to learn everything they can from my efforts.

    – Also, I have found it very interesting how closely our treatment resembles torture under the statute you mentioned and also the UN definition as well. I recently cited the UN definition of torture when i wrote to several parties about the Court ordered ECT of Charles Helmer. While I do think the likelihood of any action against such crimes(that appear to be an everyday occurrence now) is not good, the argument does have perfect merit, and as such SHOULD give pause to any perpetrator who chooses to hide behind psychiatry, the DSM or any other system that enables these types of treatments.

  • [email protected],

    Thank you so much for sharing all your thoughts on this topic. I do not think the incredible importance of it can be denied or ignored.

    I appreciate your perspective and the details you enumerated for me. I have been working this particular problem for a very very long time now and had already come up against and had to learn about the issues you brought up, and those really were the hurdles I had to work through in order to get someone to take my case. I really thought that if I overcame all these obstacles that were thrown in front of us, it would end in some kind of win, meaning someone would actually take our cases collectively(although I do not think it will be a class action as the symptom set varies too much and don’t fit the very strict standard set fourth in the historical class action reforms, so it will probably be a kind of MDL litigation with each claimant bringing their own case particulars in different localities that are most advantageous for them) or at least one of the really simple and virulent cases with video evidence and other damning documentation. What I found however was something really different that I expected, I found that the problem was an ethical one not an evidential one or even a legal one – the case is there, its relatively simple overt and easy to prove. Its all been laid out and virtually all the necessary parties have been discovered, engaged and involved in a greater conversation about bringing the case. However, getting a lawyer or legal team to act strictly on the ethical basis of bringing a claim that needs to be brought because it is in accordance with the law and represents severe damages to individuals and a significant threat to our communities has proven to be impossible. The entities I contacted all refused to take the required monetary and reputational risk associated with the claim, although they would gladly take it with well established case types, and they were swimming in monetary liquidity. There are so many people in the legal community that present themselves as ethical, purposed, community protectors that do all this good to keep justice in balance and the fact is that is a very hard claim to bring when it is rarely done with any kind of risk. A good act has no merits if it is strictly self interested or there is no evidence to the contrary.

    I have spoken to countless of the most prestigious firms in the US and I specifically sought out the ones who seemed to have acted with the most virtue and they all displayed a tremendous amount of self interest, even and especially when I was able to overcome all of their objections to the case. Their rebuttals and actions revealed a tremendous amount about how and why they operate which has perpetrated the failure to bring justice to thousands of horrifically harmed people. The failure is an ethical one, not a functional one which unfortunately has brought validity to the general disdain for the profession, of which is so supremely ironic i cannot even begin to illuminate it here – as this seems to be the same type of disdain people have for big Pharma and other higher systemic abuses. Whether it is negligent or willful is really the only thing that seems to pique my interest at this point.

    As a point of interest, as I engage someone in the legal profession(injury law?), I would have to implore you to closely scrutinize the actions of yourself and your professional company. What is the motivation for your actions? Are they in the best interest of others and monetary profit is the byproduct of appropriate action or is it the other way around? Arguably, the latter is responsible for the manipulations and abuses of corporations and government to people everywhere of which leads to the physiological harm of so many in the US.

    Id like to thank you again for bringing these issues up because everything you have mentioned is of paramount importance in a case that is already well established and is eligible to be taken by a legal professional, and not many people are having this conversation, so it takes courage to do so. If this had been earlier in my journey they would have been very eye opening and valuable but in any case will offer as much to others that walk this path in the future.

  • Fantastic piece Rose.

    I am really glad to see someone writing about this topic and starting to address some of the very real systemic problems that are harboring and furthering our injuries.

    Where is the accountability, impartiality, and ethics of the professionals that handle some of the most sensitive and important problems of our time? How and why are these people allowed to maintain their practices after being indoctrinated by paper mill educations and mistreating their patients?

    Malpractice is all but impossible to get rolling in these situations and many of these Dr’s have pending lawsuits and grievances with the medical board and they are still practicing… not to mention these claims that make it to court or are actually sent to the medical board are just a very very small fraction of the real fraud, negligence, and willful harms being perpetrated.

    The more we discuss the better equipped we are to fight and this discussion is paramount.

  • DCROY9633,

    So glad I could help. Forewarned IS fore-armed, very well put.

    Incredibly sorry to hear about your experience with ECT, and the subsequent misadventures. I really learned so much about what happened to me by observing and engaging the ECT survivor community. It’s more than intriguing how many similarities there are. This is the first time someone has told me that they go blank with the slightest bit of stress(I think its common we just don’t talk about it much). That is a very major component of my struggles, when emotions are high and i am suddenly under a lot of stress, I lose virtually all cognitive function.

    I am glad you were able to live independently, I am curious if you feel you have progressively been able to heal despite still having issues? That’s a big question for a lot of us that are new to this, we are struggling to figure out if we will improve or not.

  • And what about the 8 dropouts Sam? After all my experience with folks who have been harmed by TMS, a lot of them have a very severe reaction after the first treatment. I would assume those folks had some sort of injury. Some of them don’t recover from just the harm of a single treatment as well.

    It is really a serious injustice that dropouts are not evaluated or considered for injury resulting from the treatment. It really is a massive cheat.

  • Slacker – wow, I cant thank you enough for coming back and giving an update. It takes an incredible amount of integrity to do that, I deeply appreciate it.

    The first thing that jumps out to me, is your statement about being young and dumb or less wise than myself – you gotta cut yourself some slack, slacker. You were not warned about the long term effects and you did what your Dr’s advised you, you fell for the same trick I did with TMS, that just makes you human, your in an incredibly hard spot and to me it sounds like you made the best decision you could. I have to say, i am pretty convinced that you are smarter than me, you at least were on here looking up side effects, when my brain got fried, I didnt even know what MiA was or how to find adverse effects by going to the right places online, so I think your not giving yourself enough credit. And – lol – you filed complaints with all the right agencies, thats brilliant I didnt figure that out for over a year after my treatment, and at any younger age and experience level, i doubt it would have ever occured.

    Also, the burden, shame and guilt lands squarely on the physicians that execute these treatments. They are extremely well trained professionals that know exactly what they are doing, how and why. You should place no negativity on yourself, but i realize you may, just like i have and just like everyone else i have spoken to about their TMS injury. Even when someone was perfectly duped with no hope to turn away, they will blame themselves, maybe strictly because at the end of the day we are the ones left holding the bad – The physicians flee and deny all responsibility as histories greatest cowards. I have learned to let go of the self blame, i hope you can too, your way to Rad not to.

    This ECT game is really sick, it essentially goes against the UN convention against torture. i have to admit the harrowing details you shared with me have not left my mind for any of my waking hours, since i read your post. In what space is it possible we are torturing our children with this treatment!? There is no way, there is no chance in Hell, that child has any idea of what he is/was going to happen to him. Furthermore there is no circumstance that could justify that procedure and certainly not at his age. Words do not do justice to the depths of this atrocity against the human body.

    I am deeply sorry to hear you are having Memory loss and PTSD, coincidentally, i dont talk about it much, but i developed PTSD as well from TMS, it is my thought that it is a physiological PTSD as certain stimuli cause complete panic in me, and i think I am being overstimulated by my environment or stress and my brain can no longer physically pass these significant signals in its current state. I hope these prove to be temporary for you, I have heard from some folks that have undergone smaller amounts of ECT, that some of it comes back.

    There is this looking glass effect that I keep seeing. People who have not experienced significant injury from a medical or psychiatric procedure look at and explore the testimony of people who have been hurt and they just cant comprehend it. They go ahead with the treatment anyways, and they haven’t fully grasped the experiential depth of having a seriously damaged body or nervous system. In all fairness it takes a very powerful imagination to be able to get it. Its like the inability to understand is a magnet and it pulls certain people through, it begs to introduce them to a new reality. Its very odd to me, but i see it quite frequently and I do not think you are one of those folks at all, it was just a curiosity I thought i would share given the context of this conversation.

    That being said, once your on the other side of the looking glass no matter how you got here, you are now apart of a companionship of those who have had their eyes opened. There is no more possibility for you of the existence of a perfect or honest psychiatry or HCP. You have lived experience that tells you the real story. All of us on this side salvage what we can of our lives and then decide if we embrace the truth shown to us or not. Before my injury i was a corporate wanker, like an extreme corporate dude, everything revolved around my job and what i needed to accomplish. The rest of the world, really did not even exist, just my corner of it. Now, however I cannot lie to myself anymore and say everything is OK out there. There is a very large world out there and things are going very very wrong. Its a bit of a Blue Pill, Red Pill thing. I am extremely disturbed and upset about what happened to you and what you saw. In a kind of sick and twisted way though, I am thankful one more persons eyes were opened.

    As a closing thought – How problematic is our existence as a society if the only way we learn something is harmful is by making a large amount of people experience it? I find this whole process so incredibly reckless, every day i am baffled by it.

    I hope you are as well as you can be. If you need any resources on ECT or ways to rehab Sarah has a great site and I am always glad to look into anything i can as well.

  • Thank you so much for the kind words, much appreciated.

    Dr. Breggin is so brilliant in so many different ways. I find it particularly cool how he emphasizes the effects of all this one children because they are the long term representations of what we are doing to ourselves, they are so incredibly important.

    I have always seen High School as the most difficult and influential part of my past. It really came to define my struggles and who I turned out to be. I understand that situation!

    Possibly the most important bit of wisdom I have discovered on this journey is that there is almost always a physiological reason for the distress. I have run into so many people that have suffered so greatly only to find out may years later that it was a physiological problem all along. Many times diet or some sort of exposure that needs to be healed from. I have seen quite a few people try the Candida diet(I prefer ‘The Candida Cure’) and find healing there. Personal and relational stress is another big one but if can be addressed and removed healing can begin.

    Hang in there and be thankful to yourself for advocating for your daughter, that’s so outstanding.

  • gsgrace,

    I am so glad you brought this up since i had not heard of it yet. Ironically I have had quite a few of these types of treatments brought up to me that i have never heard of. This is not the same as TMS, although it seems similar to it in the kind of technology it uses. It looks like it uses electromagnetic waves to agitate cells.

    After looking into it just briefly, I see even the manufacturer is saying it uses ‘electric wavesforms’ to effect the brain. So what do we know about that?

    We know that electricity has never shown to benefit CNS function in any way and in any study… well that’s a pretty big statement, how can i make that? The mechanism of action is not even known for ANY of these treatments, if scientists don’t know how it works they cannot say it is healthy or has some therapeutic effect. What do we know? We do know for a fact that electricity and electromagnetic waves cause serious damage to the human brain and nervous system through electroporation, heat and other disruptive means. So we know that this treatment is most likely a con just like the others. The manufacturer has provided no evidence of real therapeutic effect, but we have seen this kind of language before that has roped good intentioned people into trusting a product only to become severely harmed by it, with no chance of ever having benefited.

    It looks like with this one, best case scenario it is not as harmful as ECT or TMS, at worst it could offer unknown serious harms, especially delayed onset ones. Some of these treatments seem effectual because the harm is actually stimulating an endocrine response which makes you feel dazed or in a state of shock that some people mistake for feeling better, but actually its just a natural masked response to trauma.

    I am very sorry to hear about your daughter. It seems we are indoctrinated these days by NAMI and so many other organizations that unpleasant mental states require a medical or chemical fix so we can be normal, of which is a complete and total lie. We are not meant to ever feel normal, we are meant to respond to our environment and, extreme stress, anxiety and depressive feelings are a response to serious things going on around us, and these responses help keep us safe. It seems to be very popular to dole out bipolar diagnoses’ for anything and also for labeling the side effects of medications as a mental disorder, when in fact it is a physiological response to having neurotoxins in our system. Bob’s book, anatomy of an epidemic really put together what had been brewing in my subconscious for so long on this topic. The evidence is just astounding.

    Medical doctors should be held to a high standard and be men of science, so you are right to be very skeptical. Many of them now a days just mascaraed as such but do not have any kind of practice based on science or medicine, they just prescribe and prescribe again until patients leave or become so subdued they do not complain of their side effects. Stand up for yourself and your daughter, regardless of her age, I am sure it is one thing you will never regret. We have all been put into very precarious situations with this topic and must help each other as much as possible to try and discern the truth of it.

    Best of luck, I hope this was helpful.

  • I completely agree Miranda, and I am so thankful you are actively watching what is happening. I am getting people severely harmed every day. If you have any ideas on who i can reach out to let me know.

    I already reached out to the FDA and they did an investigation but clearly it did not yield any actions and they did not notify me of the results. Apparently i need to file another FOIA to see what they found. Its not really important though because their investigations just mean that they go to the facility and make sure they are doing everything correctly and safely.

    Consider this, the FDA does not even know how TMS works, they have no roll in the matter. They simply get an explanation of the device and trials from the manufacturer and approve it based on that. There is no condition of understanding anything to do with the mechanism of action or the results or anything of the sort. We both know that all this paperwork and data are easily manipulated for approval, but in all honest do they even need to manipulate anything if the FDA doesn’t even understand or doesn’t want to know how it works and what it does to the human body? The whole thing is out of sorts, I read articles about how dangerous electromagnetic waves of this intensity are to the human body but these salesmen for TMS say its a magnetic wave and perform all sorts of deception to make it sound harmless. This is a HUGE problem but no one is listening. I have contemplated my next step… I could send letters to the DOJ and other places but obviously I don’t really have any evidence that it will be taken seriously… I just listened to the podcast about the Ghostwritten paper 342, or whatever that Peter Simons wrote and narrated and there was a senator in there that seemed very interested in investigating these types of things, but I feel very lacking in the specific knowledge of how to bring attention to this type of thing. I certainly have found that making general inquiries to large institutions is very ineffective, the AG of my state just sent a letter saying they are rerouting my complaint after 2 years… I brought up a very concerning imminent threat to public health and that’s the response I got.

    I continue to flounder but I am happy to do what I can everyday in full awareness that it will take a tribe to address these dangers in any real way. I see the great struggles of others harmed by so many other things as well and I cant hope to fair any better. On a deep level though, I am very concerned that this is a NEW treatment and a NEW wave of trickery and danger that is set to injure untold millions of our community, of which the nature of the delayed onset of symptoms will make an impact for many many generations to come.

  • Comancho7,

    I really appreciate you sharing a bit of your story here. You nailed and captured a lot of elements to this story that need to be told an emphasized.

    I am not sure people are understanding exactly what happening here and how serious it is. TMS is blasting the executive function are of our brains and everything after is screwed up and disoriented in so many ways. It is scrambling our brains and people are so hurt and confused afterwards they have a hard time figuring out what the hell happened to them. I think its possible the most dangerous type of harm is the harm you never knew happened.

    I have managed to learn a a lot and there is so much i couldn’t even get anywhere close with this article, however the most important concepts are in here. I will reach out for specifics on email.

  • Comancho7,

    Hope you are doing alright. Thank you so much for reaching out. I just sent an email to your user name listed here, assuming that is correct. I would be glad to give you the information for the group and help with anything I can.

    I am glad these articles have given you some hope. Together we can try and make some progress and help others.

  • Megan,

    I love the article, being a former professional(not medical) I identified a tremendous amount with your previous articles as well on what to stop saying at work. Here you have identified so many things that, I , myself have come to realize as well. Being that we came to the same conclusions independently is powerful.

    Something is really really wrong with this casual mental health term and the gentrification of it so that it can be used to funnel others into psychiatry. I noticed this awhile back and it made me really upset, I think i started to put words to it when I read about NAMI’s role in psychiatry when i read Anatomy.

    Its my own thought, that more closely tied communities could naturally overcome the problem but that’s such a huge ask. No one takes responsibility for each other anymore, everyone just accepts that there is nothing they can do when a loved one or friend is harmed. They are taught that you should remain calm and just be there for them, instead of holding others completely and thoroughly accountable for the harms inflicted on them.

    I also think critical introspection has been unwittingly vilified by a lot of people because it can cause anxiety and depression. However, i contend that the anxiety and depression are a nature survival response to an environmental threat, and very healthy in that respect… probably a product of long years of evolution. However, when we are taught to not be critically introspective and just listen to others or take a Drs word for it, we are being trained to be a passenger to the powers that be. This is quite possibly the objective of almost every leader out there, corporate or otherwise. But it also enables psychiatry and all sorts of other harms.

    Sometimes I am curious why I rarely hear others telling friends or loved ones to think critically for themselves, to figure out and learn what is best for them. I assume they are afraid of what that might mean, but that fear is driving the real harm being done. I see trusting each other and committing to each others wellbeing as a paramount paradigm shift in this conversation. There are many other things that ‘could’ occur but I am concerned about the lasting viability of those options without fundamental changes in our communities and expectations of self.

  • Interesting,

    I have had a few people close to me convinced that they had Asperger’s but it was not true, I think the vagueness of the symptomology can draw in a lot of false diagnoses. Just a side not to be aware of, of course you should assess your situation very carefully either way. That piqued my interest.

    It is a really good trait to be incredibly weary and skeptical of medical treatments. I learned too late unfortunately that the patient is typically the only one looking out for the patient. So, you have to be a very strong advocate for yourself and your loved ones. You husband is very lucky to have you in that respect. I was very much a follower and trusting to those I thought were just trying to help me out. I always maintained a very good relationship with the professionals that treated me, it didn’t end up doing me any good with TMS.

    This desperation for relief is what got me and others into trouble. I have found that for myself and so many others this is actually an indicator that there is an underlying factor aggravating the situation that needs to be addressed. An overly stressful job or expectations being put on the person that are unrealistic, something of that nature, these obstacles need to be overcome before a good decision can be made. Typically when you do that the cause of the issues may be made clearer and can be addressed without this kind of treatment, as well. I found for myself, just allowing myself to be human and not live up to the expectations of others, solved a lot of my problems. The larger outside world seems to have given up all efforts to treat people, like people. So, we end up being responsible for doing that for ourselves. I was late to that party.

    Best of luck, I hope maybe if he was able to read this article he may better understand the real dangers, I have talked to so many people in the VA that claimed they were harmed by this treatment as well. They have been doing it for over 20 years and I am certainly not convinced it was a good thing.

  • Snowyowl,

    You continue to be so complimentary, I appreciate your kindness so much.

    Thank you for that link, while I am working hard to learn about TMS and psychiatric harms, I find at times there is so much history and activity I am unaware of, which may work to my detriment because I am trying to leverage as much as I can.

    Its my thought that community or tribe is the answer to the problems we are facing, I read a really excellent book called Tribe by Sebastian Junger. This book was not the genesis of my thoughts but it was the expression of conscious and subconscious ideas I had on the subject. It coalesced everything I had been trying to for a long time. For that reason, I have found myself trying to live that value I want to see in our greater community. What I found is that MiA is a manifestation of that same idea whether it was by intent or providence, I do not know. That being said, if we don’t stick together and make something out of these ideas we will continue to fail each other in the same old ways. I find it very interesting that our adversary’s only leverage against us is money really and they are able to somehow defeat reason and all human intuition by leveraging it. I think if it were not for the complete disintegration of our larger communities by technology, media, corporations and corporate rights over the rights of individuals(specifically in the workplace), and big government this may not be occurring. The knowledge of such a tragedy is a good motivator for me.

    I think its very interesting that you bring up surveillance and big tech, because I was in big tech… in a way and so I have seen first hand how information and dissention is suppressed. Execs and senior leadership continually reorg and move dissenters and everyone really so they cannot dissent or even grow an in depth knowledge of important operations, or the ‘greater picture’ which could also be termed ‘the greater crimes’ against out fellow tribemates. You could liken this too compartmentalization you see in the military. Everything important is partitioned and constantly moved around so leadership retains control. For instance I was an analyst and I noticed the data and reports i was feeding up to my execs did not paint a pretty picture about how this company was doing business… When i happened to see an executive presentation deck for other lines of business or others who needed to be in the know, maybe finance and compliance… i noticed the numbers i had provided were massaged, and or changed to appear much more pleasant than they were, and essentially tell a different story… See any parallels? Maybe to clinical studies for psychotropic meds, medical devices, or anything else that needs a stamp from the FDA? By the time i start to gather the details and figure out what is going on, one of two things has already happened. I was reorged into another area of the company OR i was assigned to another project and everything i was doing before is handed off to another team. The incredibly dramatic icing on the cake here is that my new boss is extremely unpleasant and adds incredible stress onto an already overworked individual … and doesnt care if i have to take time off because he just screws up someone elses professional life by handing off my work to them and asking them to figure it out, when that task alone is almost impossible. As a small side note… In this scenario I can only take so much time off work before the private disability company paying me to take time off requires i am on psychiatric meds in order for me to continue to get paid… this was an extremely offensive injustice i did not think was even a real thing… but again corporate rights over the rights of the individual, as if i decline the psychiatric drugs because that should be illegal, i not longer get paid.

    Does that paint a picture? are we starting to see the different levels of control that have been implemented into the workforce – Intel, Tech, and anywhere else? This doesn’t even include a host of other legal pressures that they use as back up leverage if anyone in leadership gets froggy. Leadership gets the last say, leadership gets the control… and guess what… leadership has their interests, they have a bias and they have interests and agendas, you could even say that’s senior leaderships sole function… and I have yet to see one that benefits the tribe and not their own pocketbook, and I don’t say that arbitrarily, I have known and spent time with high level execs.

    The person that stands up, stands up alone, which is the problem isn’t it.

    I hope this further illuminates the excellent track you are exploring, because you are right exactly right and there is overwhelming evidence of it, we just need access to it, its right under all our noses. Peter Gotzsche talks about this quite accurately in ‘Dangerous Medicines and Organized Crime’ – I understood instantly all the things he was talking about because I witnessed them in action for long years. Everything he claims is exactly true, to the letter and it is happening right now. One of my Dr’s told me the book was dated… if it was not for my kinder side I may have had a choice words or two for him. The tricks of pharma and device companies are hiding in plain sight, along with every other corporate exploitation of our communities. All we have to do is dig in and take them on, but when we do we must have an alternative to the modus operandi.

  • Glad you’ve also heard good things about it. I’ve had excellent results in fact, might have given me what I needed to avoid perishing from this whole cluster.

    I have heard mixed things about the neturopathy, but I am curious about the orthomolecular medicine, I will look it up. If you have good results I would love to hear about it.

    Also- I remember falling for the nocebo trick. What i remember most is how i blamed myself for it as well. I thought, I keep getting harmed from these meds, it must be because I am so worried about getting harmed I am manifesting it for myself – just like the doc said. It took all this pain and suffering to get my eyes wide enough to see what was really happening. And, now that they are open i can see how difficult it is for others to get onboard, you literally have to fight every Dr. or other professional you see just about. I have to tell my Dr. what is what, piss him off, and be prepared to walk out ever time I see one. This is not something anyone wants to do, and yet is completely necessary to avoid death and injury.

  • Its funny you brought up the convenience factor, that really seems to be where its headed… Why trouble yourself with a whole inpatient trip for ECT when we can easily zippy zap you in under 20 minutes, and with a minimally trained staff! My GP originally told me about it, and that was his pitch, He told me how easy and harmless it was, and then at the end he said in the not too distant future every Dr’s office will have one so if their patients are suffering from depression they just sit in the chair and get the ole zippy zap and they are good to go! Wow, doc, sign me up!

  • Thank you Alicia, I am really grateful to still be able to figure this stuff out. So many of us just aren’t able to contribute in the way they would like. Thank you also, for your encouragement and advice, it is greatly appreciated.

    I really hope/wish there was some way to help some of the impacts TMS is having on others and our communities but I have not been able to find any, I haven’t really even found anyone that thinks this is a real injury or that it causes harm.

    I will give those supplements a shot, thank you so much for sharing that as well. I hope you have a speedy and full recovery.

  • My pleasure Stuart,

    I hope that this offers some sort of knowledgebase and understanding for a real informed consent, for the treatment.

    Its funny you mentioned that point about the fields, that was actually my kind of epiphany moment when I had been reading about ECT and seeing the similarities… what was causing the damage in the cells was the rapidly alternating fields and not the current itself, but a byproduct of the current. If one could utilize the same fields without the current, they could essentially perform the same procedure without the same stigma. A masterful trick really.

    Thank you for your efforts and dedication to help this whole overall situation we find ourselves in, while pursuing the Do No Harm approach and also not turning your back on the problems we see. It takes no lack of courage and fortitude, I am sure.

  • Thank you so much Miranda, as always!

    You are absolutely right, the lack of knowledge for such a serious procedure does not make sense, in a fundamental way. Its hard to filter through the layers of impropriety.

    Thank you for the recommendation as well, believe it or not i had not given that much though yet. I suppose it would behoove me to get a bit more organized about it and try and prepare for what may lie ahead. It will also make it easy for me to distribute.

  • Wow Dun, Wow.

    I am a little bit surprised at the request for 3 rounds of 36 treatments, that is the first I have seen that much of a recommendation outside of what i was told about from stories from vets. I am afraid that would be the similar to what we see in severe poly drugging. I am very glad you had the presence of mind to get out of there during the early sessions, we really do have to look out for ourselves, most often these clinicians will not. In this case they were probably looking forward to the 15k to 45k dollar payday.

    And then to find out it was a real physiological problem, I cant tell you how many times that has occurred with others. There is very, very commonly a good explanation for the psychological symptoms, of course not to mention the physical ones. Sometimes its the lack of diligence on behalf of Drs that jams us up so bad. 15 minutes per patient, yes i am sure that is long enough to figure out someone has early signs of MS. That was my best sarcastic voice of course.

    Sorry to hear about the probably MS diagnosis. If you are looking for a good read on it, I have been doing ‘The Candida Cure’ protocol for diet and the author and a friend of mine overcame their MS diagnosis with it. It is a book by Ann Boroch.

    Well said, beokay.

  • snowyowl,

    Thank you so much for taking the time out to read it. I have to agree that it does all seem to intersect somehow, or at least my gut is telling me that is true. The more we learn the clearer the picture seems to become.

    Thanks for taking a look at my other article as well. The comments may be a bit of a beast but i do think they are an incredibly good read as well. Keep your eye open for the ramblings of Boans and myself, they do tend to drag on a bit, but its very interesting in my opinion.

  • Thought you might like this one Sam, glad to hear it.

    It was very interesting, the progression of all this. At the beginning I did believe in the legitimacy of everything you mentioned although I had some skepticism. Then, i had to actually go through it all and learn more and more at every step until i came to the same conclusions.

    Another thing I see quite a bit is that these problems we identify as mental health issues are very often undiscovered physiological health problems Dr’s don’t take the time to understand. So the lack of evidence for real mental illness becomes even bigger. We have these undiagnosed or ineffectively treated physical issues and then of course normal reactions to human to stress and trauma that we mislabel and vilify. It all makes what is left a very thin area of the population, certainly nowhere near 1 in 4, and, we mishandle that. I wonder what would happen if we cut through all the rubbish and focused all our efforts on helping that small percentage, how well we could do. Wishful thinking maybe, lol.

  • Poetry really John. I think it is very interesting the forced depth of soul we gain from these sorts of horrors. Not sure if you were as eloquent before all this, I am sure you were to some extent. I certainly had the ability to write before but it was not until I was harmed that i started to lean on it so much and cultivated it.

    One thought that came up for me while reading is the interpersonal lies we tell to grease the wheels. What a profound indicator of malevolence. Once we cross that line, it becomes very real that we are in a place we should not be and that something gravely wrong has taken place. I can imagine a POW feels quite the same in that respect.

    I am so glad we met, and your voice is a particularly brilliant one, I am glad we are in this fight together. I hope you find yourself well in some real way.

  • Marie –

    Very interesting to say the least, I myself was harmed by an electrical treatment and its been absolutely horrific. So its hard for me to believe that someone could benefit without the harm, but it may be possible. I wish we knew more about the brain so we could tell the difference. It can be hard to understand why we tamper with the brain so much when we understand just slightly more than nothing about it.

    Thank you for sharing.

  • Sam –

    Its very true, I see the same thing in big business. Any convenient data gets fully incorporated into decision making but anything that makes the wheels squeak gets disregarded. The reason the comparison is important is because, being in business for a long time, i always saw the problems and would actually consciously think, thank goodness other important areas like medicine don’t operate like this.

    Come to find out, they do, and knowing all the ins and outs of the cheating business world, i immediately saw the depths of corruption plaguing the medical system especially psychiatry once i had to use it.

    To me the problem seems to quite planely be the lack of third party independent oversight. No decision that ever impacts a persons health should be decided by an interested party(this really goes for almost every other type of business as well but that could be debatable) it should always be a truly neutral party… Look what happened to Peter Gotzsche at Cochrane, and how Cochrane is run now… You cant even build an independent institution to benefit people because the perversion of others will seek to destroy it immediately. The sad thing is that it is a very simple concept and even simpler to execute, although others will convince you its so complicated and expensive it could never be done – complete Lie.

  • ZMoussavi,

    Please feel free to let me know the merits of your thoughts. I am not sure why you are convinced I do not know the fundamentals of ECT or TMS when I mentioned their primary mechanisms of injury which are established in the fundamentals of Bio engineering and also in the
    expert testimony presented for ECT litigation. If you haven’t looked up electroporation cell death or Thelen V Somatics, they are very illuminating as to exactly how these injuries are occurring in both ECT and TMS.

    I am also concerned you felt I offered you and your colleagues some form of insult on the first use of my term rubbish. That was not my intention nor did i do so. I called the manufacturer literature rubbish, which it is, they are trials designed to dismiss injury and overlook the real complications of TMS. Phil Hickey wrote an excellent piece on it, which I have found to be true after interviewing hundreds of people that have undergone TMS. His article is here –

    As for the latter use of the term rubbish, you can take insult if you like to that one although I did send that one your way directly, simply to anyone that thinks denying the likely direct cause of harm to a patient’s detriment is a good idea. If a patient says this is what caused their injury this should be taken seriously and not play second fiddle to any research. As research is designed to prove something under certain very specific conditions, not disprove any other occurrence under any other condition. Scientifically that is impossible. Invalidating a patient or person simply because the treating physician is indoctrinated into thinking something is harmless when they have no proof something is harmless is incredibly dangerous.

    If your rebuttal is coming from some sort of authoritarian response, it doesn’t really hold up here, nor should it anywhere else. Everyone has the same inherent right to have their opinions considered regardless of background, education or character. It’s a bit bold to assume I need to read 10 journal papers on the matter when I did not disclose how learned, researched or well read I was in the first place.

  • There are always these situations where people claim to have benefitted from these types of treatments. Are we really being honest with ourselves? Is shocking the human brain when we have no idea if it will cause Status epilepticus or some other torturous and permanent effects the best option? Or even an option at all, i would say there is a fair argument to call this treatment torture, the only argument you could make would be as to if you willfully participate can it be torture. Can one torture themselves? Id say yes they can, and especially if its under the advisement of a physician or family and friends.

    It seems to me more often than not people are more preoccupied with trying to eliminate the unpleasantness they are experiencing than excepting it as a part of a natural lifecycle. I am not sure how something completely unnatural and damaging to the human body would ever be a way to rectify that.

    I wonder what it is like to live in the head of this person who underwent ECT, and I wonder what their life will be like after the ‘therapeutic’ effects wear off and the Doc, says, ‘Well it looks like its time for another round’

  • Fantastic read Phil.

    It is really nice to recount the wins and the damning case built against psychiatry. Also, subsequently the relentless drive of outspoken human resistance.

    In my mind it compares and contrasts the approach of psychiatry to regurgitate clinical rubbish in order to color their agenda – to the diversely and incredibly well articulated argument against psychiatry and for the brilliance of the human condition.

    Its nothing short of amazing really. Its those moments I like to cling to, when I’ve met one more person dealing with the infinitely painful damages of psychiatry and I feel like I am dyeing a little bit inside.

    I think there’s a clear place here for those who have chosen to live with their eyes open.

  • Fantastic article Sarah, So glad you wrote it and are continuing so diligently in raising awareness about ECT and fighting for the opportunity of those who haven’t even received it yet to get a chance to make a real decision about it. Its really beyond comprehension this is going on in the capacity it is, I just cant believe it.

    I am curious if you have been in contact with the ombudsman, i got their information when i submitted my FOIA and they are supposed to advocate for the honest fulfillment of the work. I remember reading Peter Gotzsche had some success with the same process in his book.

  • Thanks for that reference Steve.

    Had no idea about the Luddites, has proved some very interesting reading. Seems their livelihood was shuttered to make way for advancing technology, which makes sense on some level but when it ends up exploiting communities and workers, it lands us with problems like the ones psychiatry presents.

    It seems if we have stable communities focused on the fair and appropriate use of technology all the members of that community can keep their livelihood, trade, way of life and most importantly their ability to contribute to their community – people think its the lack of ability to provide for yourself or family that is so detrimental, and it is, but equally if not more detrimental is the inability to no longer contribute to the wellbeing of others in your community. It is this exploitation of community that pushes us towards answers like psychiatry… well meaning people pushed into alienation and a lack of community just so someone else can profit from new tech. Someone could easily think technology is the enemy but it may rather be the employment of that tech by greedy and unkind individuals that create a void of unnatural consequence filled by ‘mental health’ problems. This is the exploitation of community, the person left to fend for themselves as a byproduct of profiteering by another person or entity. While this has created these raging murderous institutions like psychiatry, it has also conversely inhibited the great potential of our people – if we leveraged the brilliance of everyone around us and then appropriately utilized available technologies our potential would be limitless.

    It seems the simple difference between unconscionable failure and unfettered success is just our indifference to one another.

  • Zmoussavi,

    While I can appreciate you more balanced assessment of TMS, I am not sure your tracking accurately with Dani and what TMS is. You said ,

    ‘TMS might have triggered it but TMS cannot cause repeated seizures after the application is stopped; please note that determining “cause” and “effect” is different than just associating two events.’

    You are regurgitating rubbish from the manufacturer, which you are encouraged to believe is medically true(even though it is not) but is scientifically is false. TMS uses electromagnetic induction to generate electrical current in the brain – Electricity introduced into the nervous system causes seizures and epilepsy just like ECT has been proven to. This does not even breach the subject of the electroporation damage done by the rapidly alternating polarity of the electromagnetic fields used by TMS, which causes cell death in the brain which could also cause seizures and epilepsy. These are permanent physiological changes to the brain and nervous system which can and will cause long lasting conditions like epilepsy.

    Some of my Docs tried to pull the same rubbish on me, telling me that i must have spontaneously developed some other condition during my TMS treatment. I really get the motivation to go with the easy answer here but continually picking out the rarest and least likely explanation is not doing anyone any favors, Occams razor might be the right way to go if you are not certain, not just when its convenient.

  • MissDolittle,

    Your comment perplexes me a bit. The lack of detail is a little troubling to me, depression for 50 years and all it merits is a single sentence of description, saying it is so? Your comment serves better as an intent to invalidate Dani’s story. So i would guess that is your intention. Her life has been severely altered and all you can muster is a sorry but I am great? Not only does that offer as insult to her I am sure, but to everyone that reads this in the future that could be injured by TMS and disregard this article because of a trite comment.

    Maybe I am wrong about your intentions, why don’t you tell me?

  • I think you’ve really nailed it John. I have yet to find that it is much more than that although others seem to insist that it is. And yet these folks do not follow up on long term efficacy or effects. Maybe they are not interested in seeing if their treatment actually worked after they have gotten paid or seen the results they anticipated or were looking for.

  • Good call Steve.

    It seems money is a universal corruptor, it used to be power or both, Money usually being the ability to purchase some sort of power, even power over your personal life that you would not otherwise have. Very powerful stuff, something interesting i thought of though is that this desire for money seems to exist more seriously in a context where there is a lack of community. The good people that i have known seem to be well supported by others and find a very high sense of value contributing back to their communities and place little to no value on money. Took me awhile to find that it existed at all, but it seems sometimes you only find things when you know what you are looking for.

  • Points taken Boans. Thank you for sharing all this detail, at least it will benefit others who are able to read it.

    While i am surprised at how incredible the lengths taken to neutralize you, overall i am not too surprised because i have started to see the same common themes emerging with almost all the lawyers i have been talking to. I have also heard from alot of thers now andf thier misfortunes in that realm, it seems almost impossible to avoid. I just talked to a gent the other day who had a lawyer to help him with an issue and then he was harmed medically and the lawyer dropped him from everything… Dropped because someone else harmed him, what the hell!?! This makes no sense and it seems the only way it could have taken place is if there was collusion with the drs and some sort of money making scheme. Its really frightening when this is what justice looks like… We wonder why so many horrific problems exist and human tragedies, but you dont have to look very far do you.

  • John H,

    I think you bring up an excellent point and thought. Science just has no idea in the first place what emotions come from where. While they may see certain connections – like, ohhh wow, this person is experiencing happiness and this part of thier brain is lighting up… unfortunately correlation is not causation and beyond that, what one person experiences or what we can even prove in one person or one test subject means nothing compared to the next, it could be completely different, even if you found similarities across subjects.

    This is the gap we are taught to jump, believing science that is not proven to be real, nor is it likely to be real, just because what we see, seems to suggest it. Honestly, i fell for the trap as well. When i was younger i understood that a pill could not give you happiness or any other human emotion because it was elicited originally from experiences and a million other factors and has nothing to do with a foreign chemical being introduced into the brain and while we may be able to simulate some sensation or distract the mind with another or the lack there of, it does not translate in any way to what we need or desire for ourselves, and thats where the trap is laid, we are asked to believe in something that is not true in the first place… Meds dont cure depression, anxiety or other ailments, just like electrical current or waves cannot either. Sure they may distract us with other discomforts or sensations but there is no way now or ever they could serve us in a healthy capacity. These ideas are too readily accepted and cause immense damage to our families and communities.

    I share the same hope that Dr’s will see it for what it is, but i have seen the vast majority of them fall for it already… but i have met a few that did not, and believed my own story, i was impressed because it has not been common.

  • I have thought about the gofundme, but am unsure what to leverage the funds for specifically. I have yet to figure out what can be done… a lot of dead ends and no one willing to help in the professional community. Curious what you think about that.

    Id like to say your thoughts on neurology are very very important. The first thing my good neurologist said to me when i spoke to him was, we know less than 1 percent about the brain, in all of neurology. So we will do what we can but everything is experimentation. One reason i stuck with him was because he was the first Dr. to be honest with me. This same Dr told me he believed his primary function was simply to diagnose and educate his patients on what they could do to help themselves(healthy lifestyle) because any medications he could give would be harmful to any neurological condition. He also told me about the pressure he is under to give out medication because all of his patients expected them.

    The reason this point and fact is so incredibly important is that Dr’s swear to do no harm, and the willful negligence of that fact is inappropriate in every way and has equally and proportionate harm to their patients. While these physicians do have things they can do and knowledge they can share with patients that is not harmful, they choose to do that which they are unsure of and that they know has a likelihood of harm – and of course this applies even more firmly to psychiatry. This simple fact is the only necessary reason to completely rethink and reconstruct everything we have medically established to treat the human nervous system.

  • AliciaCondon –

    Wow, it was really fantastic reading your comment here. You are really dialed in to exactly what is happening with this treatment. I just cant believe that all the same things are happening to all of us, the injury, the fraud and so on. If you haven’t experienced it yourself, or knew that hundreds of others had, you might not believe it.

    You may be surprised to know that i have spoken to quite a few people who are in tremendous physical pain during the treatments, so much they can barely stay in the chair and they actually begin screaming. Migraines have also become a common thing i hear about and seem particularly unpleasant, even for people who have never experienced one.

    There also seems to be a large amount of malpractice with it, meaning that the technicians just have no idea what the hell they are doing, and neither do the accompanying Drs. I have heard many reports, where I knew the procedure had been done completely incorrectly. Even in these situations, the same gaslighting and fraud occurs where the physicians or techs urge the patients to work through the pain and they will get better. I cant really imagine being fully aware i did not know whether i was doing something appropriately or not – it causing someone else immense pain – and then asking them politely to just hold on while i continue to do it for weeks after that.

    What an unethical neuropsych as well, it is really easy for them to under report your subsequent cognitive tests to try and minimize the damage they did to you. I am sorry you had to go through that.

    I am really interested in your medical research experience as well and that you are keen on the data massage trick. I was asked to do that in the corporate world at a fortune 5 company often, and it was a common practice. At the end of the day I always thought, this is just anecdotal data that is for useless metrics that have nothing to do with people or their health. I had no idea that this was being done in regards to peoples health in the medical community as well. That is truly horrifying, as you can use it to justify anything really, administering a treatment or getting massive govt dollars for a project. The implications are so disturbing.

    I think its a brilliant idea if we could stay in touch. The easiest way is through the facebook group VTAG, mentioned at the end of my article, but if that does not work, we can use other methods. Just respond here and let me know if your interested.

    And lastly – I am sorry this happened to you, it sucks hearing from each new person i meet that this happened. I wish you a speedy recovery.

  • AMAP17 –

    Thank you so much for commenting and sharing your experience. Your TMS was a long time ago compared with most people i get to talk to, I would love to get your input on the Facebook group if your up for joining. I share a very similar symptomology, I was a type A as well and am still dealing with the cognitive problems. I have not so far developed an ocular injury but that is very common among the group. It is also common with chronic or traumatic brain injury, which i believe TMS is also. Migraines as you can imagine are also very common after TMS. Sometimes even when they have never occurred before but certainly if they were already present they become worse and more frequent.

    Furthermore, in your case, Angela Peacock from Medicating Normal just recommended a book to me called, ‘The Brain that Changes Itself’ by Norman Doidge. It explores the science of Neuroplasticity and how the brain can rewire itself to gain back lost function. I haven’t finished it but am incredibly motivated and interested by it so far. This coupled with stories like Jim Kwik’s where cognitive injuries were sustained but were completely recovered from have inspired me to try quite a few different things to overcome the impairment. In the past I could not read at all because it physically hurt but now after being persistent about it I feel i have made some great improvements and that has cascaded into other areas as well. I think reading things that peak your interest is a really big part of recovery even if it is exceedingly slow at first.

  • Wow Boans,

    I am glad(for you not for your aggressors) that you have made peace with your situation.

    Having read every word, it seems you have come to a place where you want to educate others. I certainly thought I understood what had happened to you reasonably well but after rereading it several times, it seem more evident to me that the following is true. Because psychiatry is a pseudoscience at best and is totally subjective, your govt and their community nurses can detain and remove peoples freedoms on a subjective basis.

    While all the details of what have happened to you seemed to distract me to coming to that conclusion earlier… That does seem to be the problem. If your freedoms are subject to removal based on subjective opinions of character, no one is really free. This leaves a wide open door for corrupt people to act in their own interests. It seems to be an understatement that, that does certainly warrant some attention. Such misgivings of any system of govt are doomed to fail it. Couple it with the degenerative state of psychiatry(lol, more unbalanced chemicals) and you’ve got a real mess.

    Have you submitted your story to MiA? It certainly seems to have the correct merits.

    I am continually sorry to hear about your story, it seems, like my own the arbitrary nature of why they had to happen eludes reason.

  • Wow Boans, Your story is so lucid to me it leaves little room for doubt, and casts quite a bright light on the corruption of the involved parties. It seems you have exhausted all your resources are you sure there is no other independent parties that could add pressure to the situation? It certainly seems you have nothing to lose. I know the US media is pretty useless but you can find some honest patrons that will help uncover these types of things. That’s just so jacked, and you have done your homework, I think its a very convincing case.

    You mentioned a book – ‘I know that in my Book it speaks often about people who conceal the truth with falsehoods.’ Is this a published work by you or a book you read often?

    Also, this may seem a little existential but have you though the answer to justice may lie outside your current thinking patterns? I have been seriously stuck on certain things causing me massive discomfort in the past. It seems the only way i was able to resolve them is when my mindset changed enough, the answers seemed to present themselves to me instead of me fixating on what I thought was wrong. Please do not take that as a challenge to your current ideas about what happened to you. It is simply and purely something i observed about myself. Even with this TMS situation I seem to only feel better about it when I try and change my perspective. When i was able to do that i found other experts and resources that shed more light on what was really going on with the whole picture of TMS, like the technology, how it was really developed and for what purposes. I could have never expected to figure out such a bizarre series of events. I just talked to some engineers last night that I thought may think my story bizarre and look at myself as being vastly different than them, because they were hard working gents with no history of medical issues. This turned out to be completely opposite, they empathized and started telling me about all the tech that they work with for the us govt. that they can only have limited exposure to or it will maim or kill them. One of the gents was on a team working with a certain piece of tech and thier boss had told them don’t get too close to the tech or you will lose your Y chromosomes and you’ll only be able to have girls. Years later the team realized that between them they had had 12 children and all were girls except one. A Year later the one team member that had a boy found out his wife had cheated on him and the child was not his. They illuminated me about much more detail and how tech is developed and the dangers are known but not disclosed. Very enlightening. I have to say that for a moment i thought twice about even telling them my story because it opens this pandoras box inside me every time i still tell it. However if i hadn’t, i would have never learned some important details and gained access to important people that really wanted to help.

  • Howdy BillyWallace67,

    I am sorry to hear about the side effects, it sucks, bad. I have talked to around a hundred people now that have been hurt by TMS and most of them stopped treatment before finishing. I can tell you there shouldn’t be any problems with stopping. I have not met anyone that got worse from stopping.

    You are certainly welcome to join our facebook group to discuss and see what other members are doing now. We are all facing our issues there together.

  • boans,

    I deeply admire your persistence in telling your story and attempting to get answers. Has anyone ever given you a good answer as to what should be done for citizens of ‘free’ countries in that situation? Your asking the hard questions and I think they demand real answers from real people.

    I think I am searching for some of the same answers you are and so far I have only come up with what Steve has said, it sounds like the ‘underpinnings of fascism’. If your narrative is indeed true, and all the evidence i have encountered is that it is. I have spoken to so many people who have given an incredibly similar story, with nothing to lose, I have absolutely no reason to doubt it. What do we do next? If we face fascism parading as democracy, what has happened? How toxic is our homeland? How has fascism been defeated in the past? I think we all know the unpleasant answer to that and it explains why the methods we are using now aren’t getting traction. No fascist regime that i can recall has met a peaceable end. Our warrior class is busy upholding the edicts of corruption under the pretense of freedom. So there is no one left to defend the innocent victims of these crimes.

    I would really like to hear an honest, plausible and viable answer.

  • Thank you so much for sharing Sherry!!!

    I am not sure any other profession allows people to practice with such little competence. How is it you can be certified to use drugs that you don’t even know the effects of withdraw for? And, how much worse is it that an ER Dr. who is not as learned as a psychiatrist would be well aware of the withdrawal? Maybe because they have to handle the blow-over of this malpractice more often.

    Thank you for bringing this incredibly important topic up for anyone that is wise enough to read it.

  • Actually, it is a very sound strategy. These corporations only fear the govt and the massive fines and reputational damages done to them by the regulators. Effectively its their only weakness.

    I have been in the room when a fortune 5 company is faced with a group of govt regulators. You could hear a pin drop and they only answer questions with yes or no answers because they know any misstep will result in a massive amount of work to provide proof of whatever the regulators are asking(MRA’s typically). The tables are really turned in that situation. They are completely bent over a barrel, They can do nothing but scramble to try and satisfy the demand because if they don’t they will be subject to massive fines and… other potential legal prosecution if it is bad enough.

    If someone could effectively leverage the situation it has the potential to provide real results and real change. The govt also has the power to tell them how they want them to continue their business and what standards they are looking for them to meet in the future to avoid penalties.

    This situation is usually where you see a whistleblower scenario because they are the only ones with enough detailed knowledge of the practices to get the govt. to bite and make a sure move, and even in that case there is usually political pressure that comes into play as well.

    It would be an excellent strategy though.

  • Thank you so much for the comment.

    Well, i do have to congratulate you on trusting yourself. That can be more difficult for others but it seems you are really fantastic at it. For most of us hurt by TMS we were promised a treatment that would not cause any harm, certainly not long term side effects of any kind. And that is how we got hooked, that is when we decided to trust a physician more than ourselves most likely. I certainly fell for it. I was desperate for help and i thought i could trust other human beings.

    Litigation is very hard to pursue as well, i have probably contacted close to a hundred lawyers and dealing with them is very problematic for copious reasons. They have a lot of criteria they want you to meet and some don’t even have the respect to call you back and tell you they have decided not to take your case. This has been another massive disappointment, it appears the legal system is about as problematic as the mental health system.

    It is incredibly sad there is little to no regulation as well. I mean we are treating the human brain, the most magnificent thing that has ever been discovered by science and we arbitrarily treat it with potentially devastating drugs and devices. If done appropriately this could all be fine but there is an incredible amount of negligence and pure and simple fraud being perpetrated with no consequence. The FDA may as well have laughed off mine and every other report of harm from TMS because the results of their actions have been as much.

  • That’s an excellent question. It is certainly a necessary step in the right direction, as Peter Gotzsche has shown, this is organized crime. It needs to be treated as such.

    There is this line between government and business but when government is profiting from business there is no accountability. If the cost(reputational or financial) rises high enough govt will step in and crush the business. The body count unfortunately will have to outweigh the profits. With psychiatric treatments the issue is (this is disgusting) that the patients are only typically put into severe states of suffering and are then dismissed and die early. This does not elicit the same response the large and immediate body count the opioid epidemic has gotten, for that reason. Psychiatry has really put themselves in a sweet spot in that regard and they are well aware they are doing it to their own advantage, i have worked at huge corps and leadership knows exactly how to leverage it.

  • Decisions about care is a very tricky subject.

    Like Boans said, there are times when your right to consent is waived and you are incarcerated or a doctor is appointed to make decisions for you and they can destroy your brain with ECT or any other means whether you object or not. This is a human rights violation and is inexcusable in any context.

    Then there is the more subtle problem of patient consent. First of all consent, even with ECT is not properly informed, just like with TMS, I believe they still do not inform you about the reality of the possible outcomes, for instance, with TMS they tell you its possible you could have a seizure or a headache during treatment and thats the full extent of the risk. Which is a complete farce and they have direct knowledge it is, as it has been reported to the FDA and i am certain it was revealed in trials, but not documented, as well. So even though i signed the document that I was aware of the side effects of treatment, it was not real consent. So this situation is a problem, its illegal and fraudulent and happens every day. The next is subtler still and it is the off label prescriptions and the deception performed by doctors themselves, when they tell you a treatment is fine, and you will be fine, and its ok to use rtms for IBS even though it is not indicated for it because he read an article that it could work, or when a doctor prescribes TMS for addiction and plays up the patients depression and says they are depressed when their not in order to try and treat addiction with TMS.

    In all these scenarios the patient is not given a fair chance to make a full and completely informed decision for themselves and this is how peoples lives change for the worse, this is how lives some to a functional end. Not to mention the weakened state and circumstances mental health patients see doctors and psychiatrists in. Instead of getting additional scrutiny because of the sensitive nature of the situation, most often they are given less because the patient loses cogency during treatment and this makes the patient easier to control and deal with for the physician.

  • Slacker,

    1. I love the handle.

    2. Thanks for the comments. I am very glad your side effects subsided. I am still dealing with the full force of mine. Your absolutely right about the technicians. There are literally no qualifications to be a Tech and the only training they get are from manufacturer staff, of which my techs told me they were trained to disregard patient complaints. It is really hard to believe that such a serious procedure has little to no regulation.

    As for for the ECT my friend, I have to agree with Steve and ask a favor, that you would consider it more carefully. You see, what I have found is that there is very little difference between ECT and TMS. I actually suspect TMS causes electrical injury just like ECT. This could possibly make an ECT venture even more dangerous for you as repeated electrical exposure sensitizes the body to it and makes damage more likely. ECT is actually really poorly regulated as well and procedures can be vastly different as there is no regulated standard measure for how ECT is carried out. Also, Both of them have less than impressive efficacy and relapse rates.

    The only reason I know this is because I was able to meet up with Sarah Hancock and look at her research and get some things figured out. I would urge you to take a look at her page and article here on MiA before you make up your mind. She is a phenomenally kind and brilliant person.

    Please feel free to reach out to me or join our Facebook group as well.

    We are both just slackers trying to make it out there, best of luck.

  • natastical,

    Thank you so much for the kind words. I felt driven to speak about my experience for this exact reason. To help those that experience it make informed decisions.

    I am particularly happy that you had a staff that was dialed into your situation and stopped quickly. Also, you should be thanking yourself for being in tuned with your body and knowing something was wrong. I think many patients experience Anosognosia, and are unaware that they are losing cognition during the treatment. This is a frightening prospect.

    I hope you make a full and speedy recovery. If you think you have suffered any kind of lasting damage please feel free to reach out through the VTAG facebook group or on here. We have come quite a long way in discovering what has happened to us

  • Sincere apologies for the late reply!

    I was off medications at the time I tried TMS. I had tried at least 7 or 8 different medications before i attempted TMS. I did not yet understand that psychiatric medications have nothing to do with treating mental illnesses, simply just effect the brain as to distract you from your issues.

    That is interesting, my Dr had me try wellbutrin after TMS and it made things so much worse but i cant recall an impact on tinnitus. Thank you so much for that information.

    I have spoken to quite a few people now, who think they are out of options. Some considering ECT or TMS because nothing else has worked. The really unpleasant truth that we have to ask ourselves is, how bad is our problem? I would gladly trade back my old problems for what i experience now and even those who have had very severe cases and did TMS have ended up even worse which is hard to imagine, and yet we manage to encounter it as a reality. For me and alot of others i think we need to critically examine whats causing our true problems and do everything we can to reduce the issue organically. Then from there, there are alot of alternatives to traditional psychiatric treatments. I would rather abandon everything I own than consider another psychiatric treatment at this point. I know that sounds radical but its just a fact. I think there are alot of options out there besides psychiatry that can be very effective!

    Thank you so much for the kind words, i sincerely hope you find quiet, healing and hope ahead as well.

  • I think its very interesting how incredibly dehumanizing societal pressures have become. I also found my way into psychiatric care because of inhuman professional expectations that lead to a healthy fight or flight stress response that is extreme but proportionate to the amount of stress we are put under. The irony is that then psychiatry dehumanizes us further, when there is nothing left, with treatments when we are at our worst. How more of us are not dead, is really something beyond my understanding and a testament to how durable human nature truly is.

    Thank you so much for sharing your story Rose. Your such a badass, I cant believe you managed to get your PhD through all that hell.

  • I would like to see Neuropsychological evaluations be apart of real independent trials for these meds and psychiatric treatments. We would see there is a serious, severe, and disturbing impact to the brains performance across the board for all of them. If real independent trials were performed in such a way and were used by regulators as criteria for treatment there is no way they would pass to the public, government officials would have to swallow that they are disabling their workforces. The same ones they are trying to accommodate with the treatments in the first place, because thats all they care about, just destroying the personal lives of everyone being treated by psychiatry is not enough.

    In my mind the independent objective measure of a persons performance is what shows best what is really happening. The subjective report of patients in trials managed by pharmaceutical companies tells us nothing of any value whatsoever.

  • Bekki,

    I believe Gabapentin is indicated for Neurological pain, seizures, and convulsions. Gabapentin is not indicated as a psych drug, however since it slows neurological activity doctors are using it for that. Peter Gotzsche’s book ‘Deadly Medicines and Organized Crime’ details how rampant the off label use of drugs has become. So while in your case it may be being used correctly… if it is being used as a psych drug it means it has not been tested for such use and has no scientific basis for that type of use, so it is simply doctors experimenting on their patients.

  • Mr. McNeill,

    I would like to thank you for writing such a clear cut and poignant article. It crushed, ripped, and destroyed my heart to read it. I am so sorry for the loss of your son and the circumstances he had to endure.

    The fact is that I identify with every detail of the story and your son and yourself are not unreasonable in any way or account. His thoughts and feelings about society are exact, clear and correct. About quite some time ago I had a break down from an incredible amount of stress i was receiving from poor leadership at work, and the response to the mortgage bubble popping here in the us and how the company was handling it. The fact is that it was a perfectly normal reaction to terrible and cruel treatment. After meeting with my doctor he took me out of work as an attempt to help me, however it was the insurance company that was funding my leave that made the next move. They called me and told me i could only be on a paid leave if I was a psychiatrist and furthermore, my leave could not be more than 30 days if i was not on a psych med. At the time i complied even though I knew it was an in human thing to ask. So began my own story of trying to get better while trusting doctors that were only insisting i take neurotoxins to get better, all the while they knew i would not get better but would deteriorate until i needed another prescription. Your son and myself were forced into a broken corrupted system just for simply wanting to survive in a community that we were raised in. I have talked to many, many people and have not heard of a single one who was made better by psychiatry, I believed the lie that there was at least someone being helped for many many years, at this point i have no evidence of it, and an overwhelming amount showing otherwise.

    I think people are turning their backs on us because what they see is unpleasant and they would have to acknowledge that your son was a perfectly normal person whos life was ended by a rational reaction to a system our communities have chosen to create. Think about that for a second, we have created an institution that furthers human death just by existing. There is much we can do to change our mistakes. This article in the motivation and the truth that is needed to do so. Thank you so much for deciding to share it.

    Furthermore, your son sounds like a truly terrific human being who did nothing but try and live up to the expectations of his tribe and believe in himself and his people. I miss him and I did not even meet him. I hope you find peace even though our psychiatric system seems to deter it.

  • Thank you so much for sharing your story Linda. My mum had the same zapping from Paxil and has recently used Gabapentin for various reasons, so this article is a real and direct help, for so many more reasons than just that though.

    The effects of memory loss and cognitive impairment are so subtle… we blame things… we dissociate from it and blow it off. By the very nature of experiencing it we disregard or forget its symptoms and impacts. If there is one thing that is the most under reported, acknowledged and identified in terms of side effects, i would say that is it although it can be a lot easier to deal with in some cases than other side effects. I would venture to guess as a culture we would be much more productive and even good willed if impacts to cognition were taken more seriously and measured in a stricter manner.

    Most doctors are self important dirtbags as well, unopen to learning and accepting that inevitably the ideas of others will be much better than their own. So they value their own thoughts and opinions above all others, let alone the patients that know themselves far greater than a doctor could ever hope to.

    I hope you feel better and find peace, best wishes.

  • Thank you so much for your kind words and the story Annette.

    I am sorry about the ECT(scary) and your sons story and memory loss, before my experience I did not fully understand how the loss of my memory would effect every aspect of my life and create frustration and irritability. I am developing coping skills but everything is different. I have to change my personality and the way i handle things to get along. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing.

    I can identify with the cessation of certain things to help get over the barriers. I recently stopped all the junk food i used to enjoy. It was so much harder than i thought but it has helped with good feelings and energy, which helps other cognitive deficits. hahahah, for a moment i did not understand the Whoo Whoo comment, but i thought back to my psych med experiences and it became very clear to me what you were speaking of. I had the same reaction, i tried quite a few and they all made me dopey, very punishing. I am using therapy, healthy eating and exercise to try and beat whats left of my own unpleasantness. I hope to find the peace your wishing me! Thank you so much.

  • Zergendoff,

    Sorry to hear it, I cant say that mine has been any different. I do wish I had learned your lesson before this experience. Accountability is a massive issue here and maybe one of the most importance. No one is verifying the quality of care and fairness of treatment when the bill is paid? Why would we pay for a medication that doesn’t work? Why would we pay a Dr. that doesn’t help? I think the answers can very widely but it comes back to where and how we are spending our resources. Why would we spend time and effort on things that don’t work, hurt people and makes peoples lives harder? My thought here may be because we are afraid to address the mental health problem as one being generated by economic demands and lack of community. Pay Dr.s regardless of efficacy to treat diseases generated by social imbalances because we are too afraid to address them, or too afraid to question those in power, monetarily or otherwise on why we are driven past reason to comply with societal norms, ie working 9-5 or much longer in many cases and for massive corporations with no conscious. There are a million and one ways to address the problem without spending a cent and they don’t include perpetuating psychiatry, big pharma or bs studies to promote marketing.

  • MadMother13,

    Thank you so much for the helpful advice. It always brings me hope to find some simple things to try and help me out. I am learning the lesson with Lawyers, I cant say I have found anything contrary yet accept just a few, when i have spoken to so many. And, the adds are relentless some places, exploiting vets, MLK, and many others to try and get people in.

    Thank you so much for the support.

  • My pleasure sharing Magdalene,

    Your absolutely right, I think there should be much more healthy objection and experience sharing out there.

    Additionally, I have seen quite a few studies showing little to no efficacy as well. Maybe not surprisingly, they were also the only studies I could find where there was no bias or payroll from a manufacturer. The large majority of people I have talked to had predominantly, no benefit at all. A handful have benefited and quite a few I have seen hurt. Here is another trial which I was shown recently, not impressive. I certainly do not think it is fair, as in the first article you have posted, that we show the few positives, without the contrasting risks and negative experiences? I would call that no more than salesmanship, either for a product or for your media source. Disturbing to me.

  • I certainly agree with the abomination bit. I worked in data and analytics for years in business. To think about that in a clinical setting is upsetting. We are people and need individualized treatment and consideration, everyone is a completely different being, most of which is not scientifically mapped. I am seeing this recurring theme of discarding human beings because they don’t fit the mold, the data, or the research. If you cant treat a human individually you should not be practicing anything regarding people. I am seeing a tremendous amount of oversimplification as well. That is an answer for a business model and income not treatment of another person. I have also seen incredibly lax hiring practices. Most hires in these newer clinics aren’t even vetted and contacts are not even called or interviewed. So there is no check and balance or accountability for that community, anyone could come in fill the spot, wreak havoc in the community and leave.

    I think you have brought up an important aspect of the problem.

  • I love the casual nature of my dismissal here. Perfectly fine cognitive processes for my entire life then after TMS I have had diagnosed long term cognitive impairment, not to mention my life is just a shadow of what it was before… I understand the difference between correlation and causation because I mentioned it in another comment before this post was made. Because it is hard to tell the difference between the two does not mean we should dismiss direct causation and or dismiss the suffering of those who are the stepping stones for others. We should most definitely not hide the possible side effects from those who have yet to try it.

  • Sam, you make an excellent point and something i have struggled to understand… when you cannot point out the new neuropathways or exactly what happened… How can you help a hurt patient? How can you validate the efficacy of the treatment? I talked to an Oxford TMS researcher looking to diagnostically show TMS results and I got nowhere. She could not point me to any tool that could definitively show what TMS does to the brain. We arent there yet.

    Boans –
    Interestingly enough, i have found Causality and Correlation are some of the most profoundly confused evidences , such a grey area…

  • JJ,

    You may be right, the evidence I have seen points to it or at least the likelihood of it. I appreciate your opinion about it. I have learned quite a bit from your commentary. Sucks to be me, but I am really happy for the people who are getting good treatment and benefits. I suppose I wish most that i could have accepted the side effects when i consented to the treatment.

  • JJ,

    You don’t have to believe me. Nor do I care about how hard you are trying to refute an experiential article. I do however take issue with you dishonoring the memories of the dead and suffering. The proof is there, it is in my group, it is in the lives of the people I know. It is there for anyone who is interested to observe and study. It has been reported to the FDA, it exists whether you believe it or not.

    Your belief in it does not make it true or false. It is true because it was witnessed, not because you fail to believe the witnesses testimony.

  • Thank you John, I can agree with your perspective. I battle with it a little internally. The supervision and oversight was there but I am not sure the manufacturer is training folks up correctly. I have seen vastly different SOPs at different clinics and i think efficacy is better where it is taken more seriously but as for the negative side effects, maybe a good clinician would have stopped sooner but I think damage maybe done to a certain population regardless.

    Thank you very much for your thoughts, still looking for something or someone to help.

  • Boans,

    I can’t argue with anything you have said. In fact i have been witness directly or indirectly to the same mechanisms here in the states. In fact I know the process your referring to by law enforcement is called ‘Pencil Fking’ it happens everyday depending on the mood and climate of the organization. Having witnessed it from a young age I made sure I steered clear of the grey areas it occurs in. It has still happened to me in minor sorts. I still deal with the unresolved anger that it generates at times though. As for the rest, humans are interesting creatures, I have witnessed it in the highest detail at the highest level of the american corporation, but it occurs in every place I have ever been at least in small amounts. The wheels get greased. Humans are exceptionally good at it. If crime occurs, if lives are taken, if suffering is engaged in, people look the other way as long as the car keeps moving, they will even go to extreme lengths to ignore the aforementioned unpleasantness as long as the vehicle keeps moving. I was once taught 80, 10, 10 and I have an inclination that it applies to anything human. the Lower 10 percent of people will commit crime or do the wrong thing even if they get caught or incur negative results. 80 percent will do whatever is easy, commit crime, hurt someone else, whatever, as long as it is easy and nothing bad will happen directly to them. The upper 10 percent will do the right thing even if it means they are punished for it. I have heard the same numbers applied to survival scenarios and crime. Maybe its just the human mind? Bad news for the wheels of justice and human treatment. I am glad you are brilliant and speaking up, many of us who are not, are crushed and swept under the rug, names we will never know.

  • Thanks John, I am so glad your one of the ones that have gotten real help from it. When I went in, I really believed that might be me. I was lucky enough to meet others that have really benefited as well. I really want to find out what the difference is and why the outcomes are so drastic in some cases. The brain is so complex and amazing its hard to think we may find out in this lifetime.

  • Sam, what can i say, your a classy one, thank you. Id rather have the information and think for myself instead of rely on others to tell me something is safe… I have had plenty of Dr’s and techs talk to me about the reality of the treatments so they can improve and disclose everything to their patients, not dismiss something because they think maybe it wont happen to their patients.

  • class1 , Are you so sure it is not TMS fault? I will make some concessions here. TMS is relatively low risk, from what i have observed this is occurring in a small population, but that is a population. These side effects have been reported to the FDA and are public. They have been reported to the manufacturers and they have chose not to warn their techs and the public of the side effects reported.

    To me it does seem efficacy rates are higher at better clinics, but does that excuse the damage done by a machine operated by others? When they are operating within compliance set down by the manufacturer? When they were trained by representatives of the manufacturer? Everything has a cost, everything, When i take a med that says it could result in death… well if i kick off, it was my responsibility, it was on my own hands. The disclosure provided to me before i did TMS did not tell me anything about having serious cognitive impairments two years after the procedure or any of the significant issues I have. I checked with the others as well, the folks i met with that had detached retinas and nerve pain… No disclosure for them… The woman who ended up on a ventilator with a pacemaker as well… no disclosure… I now have done my homework, I know whats happening, I have called the mother, the next morning, after a suicide attempt from someone i had been trying to help for months deal with the side effects of TMS, who was not suicidal before TMS. I could rattle off for hours.

    Its possible you are right that the risk could be low under certain conditions, but it does not excuse the cost of the backs that are walked across to pave the way to a persons success. Especially when it was not disclosed to them and they did not have the chance to make an informed decision, even when the information was available to the manufacturer.

    I have also spoken with those who have had massive turn arounds from TMS, defeated life ending depression. Outstanding, if your life is better, awesome! Seriously, however I wasn’t so lucky and I am not sure we should overlook the incredible suffering of others based on the even miraculous success of a few. When people ask me about TMS, it is simple, There is great success out there but the risks are not being disclosed. Here is what is possible, and its something they are not telling you. There was no fail safe on the machines, stopping the harm that was done to me, there was not training given to the techs to identify problems, i have talked to the techs from different clinics. Science does not know much of anything about how the brain works… So they know definitively that TMS does no harm to it? No way, not even close, the brain is an amazing thing, way beyond our own comprehension, we wont know the impacts of TMS on it for millennia. I’ve been to some of the best clinics in the country, in MY experience, the difference between them and a regular neurologist, is that they admit they got no clue on whats going on but they will give it a shot. Pretty subjective, but I will take the honesty any day. Someone who says they know unequivocally what TMS is doing to your brain is.. well I will let anyone reading fill in the blank.

    Sorry, I cannot stand down and dishonor my own story or the story of those I have met in order to save the conscience of a few or any other for that matter. Time will tell if I am a wanker or not.