I am a 37-year-old father of two and husband to a fantastic wife of 15 years. For at least as long, I have struggled on and off with anxiety and depression. Throughout, I have managed them through counseling, diet, and exercise. I have tried antidepressant drugs several times, but they have never done anything for me except make the situation worse. Despite my mental health issues, I had nonetheless been able to contribute meaningfully to my family, my community, and my work in a high-level corporate job.
About a year and a half ago the biggest threat to my stability came not from my anxiety and depression but from a new form of treatment called transcranial magnetic stimulation, or TMS. The Mayo Clinic website describes TMS as “a noninvasive procedure that uses magnetic fields to stimulate nerve cells in the brain to improve symptoms of depression.” They make it sound simple enough: “An electromagnetic coil is placed against your scalp near your forehead. The electromagnet painlessly delivers a magnetic pulse that stimulates nerve cells in the region of your brain involved in mood control….” Based on my experience with it, nothing could be further from the truth. TMS not only has not improved my mental health but also has robbed me of some of the most important things in life. As it stands, there has been little to no research on or awareness around the negative side effects that TMS can inflict. This must change and is more important than ever as this treatment continues to grow in popularity.
Hoping for a “Breakthrough”
My introduction to TMS occurred by chance, during a regular checkup with my primary care doctor. As a part of the checkup, I filled out a questionnaire on depression. At the end of the visit, he asked me, “How long have you been feeling depressed?” After I told him about my history, he brought up TMS, describing it as a breakthrough treatment that did not involve taking a pill. He told me that he believed one day soon, every doctor’s office would have one of these machines, with which they could simply and effectively treat their patients for depression. Having witnessed the horrors of medications firsthand, I was very intrigued and excited about a treatment that could positively affect the brain without the use of a toxic pharmaceutical. My doctor told me to look up Neurostar because it was the “gold standard” for TMS machines.
I left the office that day filled with an unexpected hope that I might find relief from my long-standing battle with depression.
I went home and immediately started researching TMS and Neurostar so I could better understand the treatment and then talk to my wife about it. The first thing I found was a newly opened TMS clinic on the other side of town. That was one hurdle down. Next, I found quite a bit of information on the procedure itself, all positive, with a lot of documentation and testimonials about how it was possible to achieve a miraculous and long-lasting remission from depression. The success rates I found were as high as 80 percent; others stood at around 60 percent. It seemed to validate what I had learned from my doctor.
Next, I researched the potential side effects. I visited several different sites, including Neurostar’s homepage. The side effects listed seemed pretty minimal to me: headaches, lightheadedness, burning sensations on the scalp, and in extreme cases seizures. But these were all said to be temporary and should not last any longer than two to four weeks after treatment. That afternoon, I discussed all my findings with my wife. She admitted she was apprehensive but begrudgingly agreed that I could go down and have a consultation. The next day, I called the clinic and scheduled my first visit.
At the initial appointment, I met with a psychiatrist who asked me about my current and past mental health issues as well as the medications and different treatments I had tried. After we talked through my history, he said I would be a good candidate for TMS. I asked about the risk of seizure. He told me that the only real risk of seizure was at the initial “mapping” session on the Neurostar machine when they discover my “motor threshold,” which is the point at which the electromagnet elicits a physical response from your body. Also, he said seizure was extremely rare and that he had neither heard of nor encountered them in TMS patients.
Then he introduced me to the staff and technicians. I asked them the same questions about side effects, and they all confirmed independently the same risks that I had read about online and reviewed with the psychiatrist. I also signed paperwork that included disclosures saying that I accepted those risks without mentioning any others. The staff offered to set me up with my first appointment the next day and I agreed. Although I was a bit nervous, I was excited at the potential of curing myself of depression at what seemed to be very little risk. I will admit: It did seem too good to be true. But I rationalized away my doubt, believing that modern medicine was now so advanced that this kind of treatment was possible.
So Far, So Good
The first treatment was a mapping session. They set me in what was similar to a dentist’s chair with a large articulating arm on its left side, which was attached to a large computer with a monitor and user interface. Then they moved the articulating arm up to my left temple, so it rested within a few millimeters of my head, handed me hearing protection, and started the mapping. The machine was activated and ran pulses of electromagnetic energy through the tip of the arm that was pointed at my left temporal lobe. It made loud clicking noises while it ran for a number of seconds before stopping for another several seconds and then started up again. Each time they ran the pulse they observed my hands to see if I flinched or seized.
By doing this, they were looking for the best arm placement for the machine against my head so that there would be no motor response from my body. The flinching sensations I felt were disturbing, but not particularly unpleasant, so I did not worry. After about 20 minutes, the technicians were satisfied and said the computer would remember the custom settings for me so that when I came back the next day, I could just sit down and get started. From that point on, each session would last about 25 minutes. We scheduled sessions for five days a week over the next three months. It was a big time commitment, but it was worth the proposed payoff.
The next day I showed up, feeling a bit nervous and unsure of what it would be like to get a full treatment. I also felt a bit of hope that I might go home feeling better that night. The staff was friendly and made me feel very comfortable. We chatted while I got set up in the chair with hearing protection, just like during the mapping session. They fired up the machine and set the articulating arm up to the same spot on my left temple. The tech let me know she was going to start, I agreed, and the machine began clacking away at my head. In all honesty I felt nothing but a bit of an uncomfortable tingling or snapping sensation at the site where the arm was closest to my head. At the end of the session I was pleased that I had felt nothing remarkable.
The tech asked me, “How do you feel?”
I thought about it and replied, “I feel great… a bit lightheaded, but not bad.”
She said, “Great. Now, if you feel comfortable with that, we will turn up the intensity next time. You are at 50 percent and we need to get you up to 110 percent, which is the therapeutic dose.”
I thought, What the hell is going on here? They had not told me anything about having to raise the intensity of this thing. Still, I told the tech OK and left, feeling a bit put off. But then I thought: That session was not so bad, so the next one would be fine.
The second session was the same as the last but they “turned up the intensity” by 5 percent. We settled on the 5 percent out of my instinct to be cautious. They actually asked me how much I wanted to turn it up and said they could go as high as 10 percent each session and that the faster we got to 110 percent of my motor threshold, the faster I would feel better, having gotten the “full therapeutic dose” for longer. This made sense and I wanted to do the full 10, but I had no idea how different that would feel. My instincts nagged at me, and in hindsight I realize that my gut was saying: “If bumping it up by 10 percent was easy, they wouldn’t ask you if it was OK. They would just do it.”
We went through the same procedure at the additional 5 percent intensity. At the end, they asked again, “How are you feeling?” This time, I was a little more apprehensive with my answer. I said, “I am feeling pretty lightheaded… Is this going to get worse? Does everyone get this lightheaded?” They replied that it was normal, temporary, and that there was nothing to worry about. They also said that the feeling typically goes away after the first two weeks. I thought about it for a moment and likened the sensation to having had a few beers and decided, “No big deal, they are probably right.” I would be driving myself home, though, and considered whether driving feeling like this would be a good idea. I felt that different.
After a full night’s sleep, I returned for the next session. I still felt a bit lightheaded, but I was confident that what they were telling me was true and this would all go away after I got through the first few weeks of TMS.
Lingering Questions
This time, I had my wife drive me to the treatment facility. We repeated the treatment and only turned the intensity up by 5 percent again. By that point, I had built an excellent rapport with the tech. I decided to ask her whether anyone had ever quit because it was too unpleasant. She told me about just one gentleman who’d stopped going because he could not take time off work while receiving the treatment. I considered my own situation. I had the ability to take time off work as necessary, so I did not think that would become an issue. I also asked her if she had seen any side effects that were not mentioned or things she thought were suspicious. I believed her when she said, “No.” She had had one other patient who’d quit because said he did not benefit after a month of treatments, but that was it.
When my session was complete, the tech asked me the usual question: “How do you feel?” I gave the usual answer. I explained to her that I felt lightheaded and almost intoxicated. She again dispelled this as normal, and I left believing her. My wife drove me home, and I am glad she did as it was clear to me now that I should not be driving in such a state. At the time, I would describe the lightheaded sensation using words such as intense, ethereal, intoxicated, fuzzy, or off. Other times I would say that I just felt dumb.
The next session or two followed the same pattern until I was strongly encouraged to turn the intensity up by 10 percent so that we could get to the “therapeutic” dose on schedule. I agreed and we bumped it up. The lightheaded feeling intensified. It was very unpleasant, but feeling like that put me into a kind of drone state. I figured I would just go through the motions of life until I started feeling better.
I finally got to the full therapeutic dose and asked the staff when I would start to work my way out of this lightheadedness I was experiencing. They replied that I should begin to get back to normal after about a week at this dose. I trusted what they said and eagerly awaited my return to normalcy. I went through another week of treatments but I felt the same after every session. The lightheadedness persisted at all times and through everything in my life, including my work for a Fortune 10 company, which I had been managing to complete from home.
Things were slow at work, which really helped. I know that if work had been moving at full pace, there would be no way I could perform my usual function as a software and database administrator. Just in case things took a turn for the worse, I let my manager know that I was receiving medical treatments and that I might have to take some time off work if I experienced serious side effects. I wasn’t too worried, though; I’d worked for the company for some 15 years and had received excellent evaluations.
When that week had passed, I still felt the same and had the same conversation with the treatment staff about when my side effects might subside. They changed their story a little bit this time, telling me that some patients feel lightheaded through the end of treatment, but that it was always temporary and should let up soon. This news raised some red flags for me, but with everything I had read and everyone I had talked to, I truly believed them. After all, I was just undergoing a magnetic pulse that stimulated my brain’s neuron activity. How could that cause any long-term problems?
Disturbing New Symptoms
I continued the treatment with no relief from the side effects for the next few weeks. Then one night while I was sleeping, I heard the fire alarm go off in my home. I shot up in my bed, scared as hell. My wife was still sound asleep. I scanned the room, frantic, looking for smoke or light from a fire, but saw nothing unusual.
I quickly shook my wife awake and began yelling at her: “Get the hell up, the freaking fire alarm is going off!”
Her eyes opened wide and she said, “Honey, it’s OK! There is no fire, the fire alarm is not going off.”
I demanded, “What the hell is wrong with you? You can’t hear that? Are you deaf?”
I felt scared because my gut was starting to understand that something was wrong within me, although my conscious mind had not figured it out yet. She asked, “What do you hear? There’s nothing there.”
I replied, “What? You can’t hear that? That screaming sound, it’s like incredibly loud ringing.”
She said, “No, there’s nothing there. It’s OK, your ears are ringing. You have never had that before? It happens to me all the time.”
The pieces of the puzzle started filling in for me, but by now I was absolutely terrified. I was experiencing intense tinnitus. I managed to calm down and fall back asleep after some time. The next morning, I still had the tinnitus, but it was not as intense. That day at my treatment session I brought up the sound to the clinicians there. They said that it can happen but again assured me that it would be temporary. I felt so thankful. Because my wife had experienced tinnitus before, I figured it was not a big deal. I learned to cope with it and just moved forward.
After I developed tinnitus, some other minor symptoms came and went as well. I would have dizzy spells and bouts of nausea that had never occurred previously. Before this, the only time I’d ever become dizzy was after I’d spun in circles playing games with my kids or going on a carnival ride. I had only ever experienced nausea in tandem with eating bad food or having the flu. These were side effects of TMS, and when I brought it up in treatment, I was told that it happened, but it was just temporary and would subside after treatment at the very latest.
Cut Loose
Soon after these symptoms developed toward the end of my treatment, I had a regularly scheduled teleconference meeting with my boss at work. Skipping the formalities and without warning, he told me he was letting me go. When I asked if I had done something wrong, he told me no; there was no cause. Then he briefly answered a few questions and hung up. It sent me reeling. I realized that in less than five minutes, I had lost a job at which I had worked painstakingly for the best years of my life.
I comforted myself by assuming mine was part of a larger layoff of many people in my department, so I asked a few friends still working there about it. They all confirmed that I was the only one. I later learned I was replaced about a week later. Clearly my management team perceived my disability and moved quickly to remove the problem.
I am a pretty pragmatic character, and after I recovered from the initial shock of being fired, I was actually glad I did not have to worry about work anymore and was looking forward to the new possibilities of a life free of depression. So I finished out the TMS treatments without any change in my side effects, even though I still hadn’t gotten any relief from the symptoms that led me to TMS in the first place.
When my TMS treatments were complete, I had an exit interview with the center’s psychiatrist, during which we discussed my marginal results. He seemed to think that I might continue to improve for weeks after my treatment. At this point, I had one burning question for him. When would my side effects let up? I was not even concerned that my depression had not improved. I was so tired of being lightheaded and impaired every minute of every day for the last three months; that is all I could think about. He told me the same thing that all the literature and all the techs had said: “It should dissipate in two to four weeks.”
I then asked him, “What happens if it does not?” He responded that the only reason it wouldn’t is if I had developed a different neurological problem during treatment that was unrelated to TMS. If that occurred, I should go see a neurologist. The small red flag that had been raised at the back of my head from the beginning began flapping in the wind of the now-barren landscape of my mind. No distractions, no doubts, this was it: They were washing their hands of me. In all likelihood, I had made the gravest mistake of my life in trusting them with my mental health.
More Impairments
So I waited. Week after week, I waited for my normal brain function to return. I wanted my sharp, witty mindset back so I could begin my life again. It did not return, and I began to notice more peculiar things about myself besides just feeling drunk or hungover all the time. My short-term memory was kaput.
For instance, one morning I was putting ice into a cup from the dispenser in the freezer and overdid it. Ice cubes spilled out and filled the exterior tray on the front of the fridge. I figured I should set my cup down, turn around, and then clean up the ice. Instead, I got distracted, forgot the ice, and by the time I remembered it, it had melted and made a mess on the kitchen floor. My wife noticed and said, “What happened here?” I told her and said that I would clean it up now. I grabbed some paper towels and started soaking up the water. Then I left for just a moment and did something else. About an hour later my wife approached me again about the mess in front of the fridge and I asked her, “What mess?”
Prior to my TMS treatment, I was a “Type A” personality. I hadn’t left a mess out since I was 10 years old, so this was an extreme deviation from my previous behavior and cognitive ability.
The other change is that I can no longer multitask. If I am doing something and someone talks to me, I forget what I had been doing. If one person is talking to me and another person comes up and begins talking at the same time, I cannot make out what either one of them is saying, even if I focus hard. If there are any distractions in my environment it is now extremely hard, if not impossible, for me to stay on track.
After two months, when I was sure these symptoms were not letting up, I scheduled an appointment with a neurologist. He was very aware of what TMS is and had been to a conference on it. However, he too thought my symptoms would dissipate. To rule out any other factors, though, he ordered an MRI of my head. When that came back clean, he ordered EEGs, bloodwork, and neuropsychological testing. All the results came back normal except for the neuropsychological testing, which showed MCI, or mild cognitive impairment. Almost all of my mental processes were now below average: Storytelling, recall, and cognitive shifts (multitasking) were impaired. At least now I had proof.
After I better understood what had happened to my mind, I went to see an ENT (ear, nose, and throat specialist) and an audiologist. More testing ensued and the doctors diagnosed me with tinnitus and high-frequency hearing loss. Furthermore, they told me that I am one firework display away from major hearing loss. Their solution was that I should wear two forms of hearing protection whenever I am in loud environments.
By this point, almost half a year had passed, and I felt no improvement. After talking to several different doctors, including some of the best in my state, I was left empty-handed. I continue to search for ways to heal myself and recover from a new treatment whose disabling effects modern medicine has no defined way to counter. When you are taking an anti-depressant or other pharmaceuticals, you can stop taking the pill and your body will naturally flush the chemicals out of your system in time. With TMS, there is no way for your system to do that. All you can do is wait for your brain to adapt as it attempts to restore the damage done by the electromagnetic pulses forced through it. Little to nothing is known about how that process might work, much less how to hasten it. I have talked to quite a few medical professionals who deny that what happened to me is even possible.
Finding the Others
After I learned about the damage TMS caused, I felt desperately alone. My mind turned to the fact that this “treatment” is being performed on so many others, and some of them likely wound up damaged like me. I searched online often but could not find anyone else in my situation nor any documentation for the type of side effects I experienced. I even found research showing that TMS could be used to improve memory and cognitive function. This was vexing, but I could not think of anything I could do about it.
One day, I finally searched with the right phrase, and a TMS forum came up in my results with a specific thread on memory loss. There it was: Years ago, someone had posted that they were having problems with their memory after receiving TMS and could not even remember their wife’s name. I continued to read and found there were many others like us, not only with memory problems but also suffering from other physiological symptoms including tachycardia (rapid heartbeat), numbness, tingling and burning throughout their bodies, detached retina, and loss of control of facial muscles, to name a few. There was also a theme of new and worsening depression, as well as new, extreme anxiety so severe that it had led to a suicide.
After reading these stories, I understood that something very wrong was occurring and being swept under the rug. These symptoms were devastating, yet they were not being disclosed to prospective patients. After additional research, I discovered that these types of symptoms and events have been reported to the FDA for years. Furthermore, the FDA itself has reported these events to the device manufacturers, yet the manufacturers have done nothing to inform patients about them. They are not disclosed on the consent forms we’re asked to sign nor presented in any literature. It’s not on the manufacturers’ websites, not in the materials provided to the clinics that utilize the devices— nor anywhere else I’ve looked.
Let’s be clear: The manufacturers are perfectly well aware that their devices are ruining the lives of some of their patients, yet they do not inform them of the risks of this procedure, no matter how remote this type of harm is thought to be. They advertise TMS as a risk-free or super-low-risk treatment option and it is even described as such on supposedly objective medical websites. This is simply not true, and the damage is amassing every day.
Today my mission is to inform anyone thinking about undergoing TMS about the real potential side effects of the treatment. I am also trying to provide a community for those suffering from the un- or minimally-documented side effects of TMS through a members-only Facebook group, Victims of TMS Action Group (VTAG). If you know of anyone who can benefit from further information, please tell them about us.
The most important lesson I have learned from my experience with TMS is that the mental health community must approach pharmaceutical and device treatments with the highest possible level of skepticism, trusting our instincts when making decisions about our own care. The stakes are just too high and the protections needed are not yet in place to preserve the health of our communities.
TMS Resources
My story is but one of many, some of which are truly harrowing. You can read more testimonials on the negative effects of TMS on VTAG as well as this Reddit discussion page and in this blog by psychologist Phil Hickey. You can also search the FDA’s MAUDE database: Enter “Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation” in the “Brand” field and set the search dates to between 01/01/2004 and the current date.
Thank you for sharing your story. I had not known about TMS before this. I fear that like you, me, and so many others, we only find out about the potentially devastating consequences of psychiatric treatments once our lives have been severely damaged or ruined by them. I am so glad that you are able to offer support to other survivors of TMS. I hope that helps you to find meaning in what you have experienced, and I hope that in coming forward, you will help to effect change.
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Thank you for the kind words Caroline, and thank you for being an active part of this community of support and speaking out. It is really outstanding. It doesn’t seem right that the vast majority of us are focused on self gratification when watching and participating in media and other aspects of life while we cant even properly inform ourselves and other members of our community about life changing side effects of serious medical decisions. I admittedly was one of them although I did make my best effort to be informed on the decisions i made. It just baffles me how far removed the vast majority of us are from the realities all around us.
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TMS is well tolerated and is very safe compared to drug alternatives. Your experience is rare and temporary. I’m a TMS tech and have done sessions for hundreds of patients who say that TMS saved their lives.
Google Prozac negative side effects and you will see 1000s of articles with negative side effects. Google TMS negative side effects and you’ll barely find anything. TMS has been around since the 80s. If it was as bad as you claim this all would’ve come out by now, just like it has for prozac.
“you can stop taking the pill and your body will naturally flush the chemicals out of your system in time.”
This is false. Prozac does permanently damage chemical pathways in the body. Don’t ask me, ask a scientist and they’ll tell you the same thing.
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TMS is not the first line of treatment, so “If it was as bad as you claim this all would’ve come out by now, just like it has for prozac.” Prozac, et al, are the first line of treatment, that’s why the harm the antidepressants cause, is finally coming out.
“I’m a TMS tech,” but “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
Mr. Hall should have a right to honestly tell his story, without those who profit off of what harmed him, denying his story. Repeatedly.
But I do agree, jjnoles, the antidepressants do cause permanent, long term damage.
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Also it states no alcohol. Did you have any during your treatment time? I’m asking genuinely bc I’m sure it’s hard to just give up. I myself only drink wine and just thinking about no wine every now and agn during those 6 weeks has me thinking I should wait. Alcohol is hard on the brain so i can’t image trying to repair and still damaging at the same time
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This is the type of gaslighting that prevents stories like James’ from being believed and shared. This is his reality, and it doesn’t seem temporary. Noting the fact that drugs are dangerous — which is why he said he didn’t want to take them–doesn’t negate the fact that TMS is not always the miracle cure it’s purported to be.
jjnoles, you’re earning a living from TMS; maybe step back and consider that where you stand depends on where you sit.
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Well said Miranda! When I read this article, I almost fell off my chair and thought I might have forgotten when I wrote this article! Every little detail was my story of the side effects I am experiencing down to responses that are given from medical staff. Could this be a possibility of poor experience or error of administration on the operators part? Like wrong part of the brain, or too high of voltage?
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jjnoles I think it’s safe to say that you clearly missed one of the main points to this gentleman’s story… he didn’t say the treatment hasn’t helped others, but he did say there are major side effects that aren’t being disclosed to people prior to treatment and that is NOT ok. Our Country is being controlled by big money companies and the safety of the consumer no longer matters to these corporations and it’s not ok. I wish the people on top would stop for a minute and think about the individual lives that their drugs, devices, food, formula, etc are destroying for the almighty dollar. It’s sickening, our culture in America has gone to hell and we need to figure out how to turn it around but I fear it’s already too late. People don’t care about people anymore and it’s heartbreaking.
Mr. James Hall, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family and thank you for speaking up about what this company is hiding. You should have a sense of accomplishment knowing you’ve helped stop others from pursuing this treatment. God Bless!
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PeacockPretty, Thank you so much!
It is harrowing seeing first hand how people will gladly destroy the health of others and then even refuse they did any harm at all, just for money. We have fallen so far.
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Hi again James. Hope your doing well. You write;
“It is harrowing seeing first hand how people will gladly destroy the health of others and then even refuse they did any harm at all, just for money. We have fallen so far.”
The ‘just for money’ comment has been niggling at me over the past couple of days, and I’m kind of glad it has. The reason being that in my instance it wasn’t originally for money …….. that frenzy came later……. but I do agree with your conclusion that we have truly fallen so far.
I don’t know if you have read Dr Moncrieffs “Psychiatric Diagnosis as Political Device”, a document I have shared with ‘mental health professionals’ as being the Satanic Verses of Psychiatry. Well worth the read, though I think Dr M has fallen short in exposing the extent of the abuses available to the State via these methods.
In my country, it is the case that harm is done for political purposes in many instances. For example, concerns about whistleblowers by the State can result in referral to a psychiatrist for a ‘report’ in order to be compensated for any damage that has been done as a result of workplace environments. This places individuals in a vulnerable position (discussed very well by Frantz Fanon in his Wretched of the Earth, with psychiatrists and lawyers laughing about the people they have breached the trust of and sent to the guillotine) where the use of the ‘chemical kosh’ and electricity to the brain resulting in what are termed ‘unintended negative outcomes’ become a tool available to the State to ensure the silence of certain individuals.
This is known about by those in power, and has resulted in our Treasurer having to flee the State before being referred by police to mental health for an ‘assessment’, and ‘treatment’ for his ‘mental illness’ which would no doubt have been identified had he been captured by police.
Of course such vicious human rights abuses one would imagine are the result of oppressive regimes such as Saudi Arabia who post ‘flags’ on individuals, who are dealt with once those flags are triggered. Much like the alarm that went off when I turned up in a Police Station with documents the State thought had been retrieved, and the ‘note’ on the police system to ‘refer’ me for “hallucinating” (thinking I could be protected by the law an illness requiring the chemical kosh, or worse…..) to mental health was triggered.
Mind you, I did walk away from my employment with the State a free man, without the need for me to be silenced…… except…… I also got paid a sum of money which must have been a temptation to someone who knows the system.
It would appear that ‘just for money’ may be the case as I attempted to walk away, and rejected the offer of having large voltages of electricity applied to my skull until my wallet was empty. Some would call it extortion, others medicine….
It seems that the confidential nature of my medical records as a result of the harm done to me by my employer (the State), AND the need for me to remain silent, lest I require ‘treatment’, can be overlooked with a simple confidence trick. Tell the Police that I am an “Outpatient” after incapacitating me with a ‘spiking’ with date rape drugs, and have them brutalise me until I confess to my ‘illness’. Once that confession has been tortured from an individual, then the process can be “edited” to conceal the human rights abuses, and your legal representative can throw you under the bus for the benefit of the State.
[in fact, I had nothing to ‘confess’ when tortured, and the Community Nurse had to fabricate his “reasonable grounds” by verballing me. The court process denied me access to any and all ‘diagnostic information’ to protect me. Hence the dilemma in the escalating torture of me because they are fully aware that in the end, they ALL confess. Something the Community Nurse finds quite humorous]
Police quite happy to ensure that the victims of such human rights abuses are silenced by ensuring that they are denied access to the law, and providing a window of opportunity for mental health services to ‘treat’ their error.
There are of course parasites who recognise that there is money to be made if you can identify those who have been paid sums of money by the courts, and who can be brought under the control of a psychiatrist with such a ruse…….. and once under that servitude, well, I’m sure you have seen what can be done to individuals and be called ‘medicine’.
There is an historic example of such a situation. The Treaty of Huddabiyah serves as a good example of what can be done when you LIE to those you have made an agreement with. Go to the Muslims and tell them that the person you wish to torture and kill is an escaped slave, and under the Treaty they would be required to return him/her to their master in Mecca. And if you can have their own ‘representatives’ forge and utter with documents (as my legal representative did by forging and uttering with a letter purporting to be from the Chief Psychiatrist) well……… the fact that the person was procured with a lie before being snuffed would be of no concern.
I have asked a number of senior Muslim scholars about this ‘loophole’, and if it was the case that this existed in the Treaty. The Prophet stating that Muslims are not a people who lie, but there was no compulsion on others to stand by their agreements (eg Quraysh)? And this appears to be the case with Australia and their ratifying of the Convention against the use of Torture, simply concealing their human rights abuses by denying access to representation, and exploiting a ‘loophole’ of “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction”. Mental patient not protected under the law, and with the ability to fabricate an “outpatient” by lying to police ……. too easy.
But, follow the money? The amount that I was paid was fairly insignificant, but an easy take once my medical records were unlawfully released from the Private Clinic …. or so they thought. My wife and the clinic psychologist ending up in quite a tussle for that 6 figure sum….. my wife engaging the services of someone who “doesn’t have the stomach” for the way these matters are being resolved in the Emergency Dept.
And our Chief Psychiatrist having that forged letter from the Law Centre attributed to his pen? I suppose it wouldn’t have mattered if the Police had retrieved the documents showing the torture and kidnapping, but my wasn’t it a problem that I still had them?
Nah, not always about money James. But there was an element in among it that started the ball rolling. The clinic psychologist acting as ‘spotter’ for her psychiatrist husband, to identify ‘targets’ to bring under their control once they had been compensated by the courts ……… pays for quite a lifestyle I am told. Though they will, as you suggest, deny that they actually did any harm. And I would find it difficult to prove any of what I am saying, mainly because the people charged with taking the proof of it, have refused to accept the documents, and on occasions returned them after realising what they actually are.
So I guess my question to the Minister who passed the Euthanasia Laws through our Parliament is still quite valid. What good are the protections of the law, when the State can deny citizens access to those laws designed to protect them from such human rights abuses? If the hospital that tortured and kidnapped me can “edit” legal narrative before providing documents to my legal representative (to conceal human rights abuses and “fuking destroy” the person complaining), what good are the legal protections with regard their snuff laws?
[Imagine, the State has proceeds of crime legislation, and the ability to torture confessions from citizens? And now they have Euthanasia Laws, and the ability to “edit” legal narrative post hoc, and deny access to legal representation? No wonder they want to pass laws making it a crime to compare them to the Nazis. Things are going to get interesting around here now the squeeze is on]
I mean I’m sure there would be some tutt tutting over convenience killings by doctors but ….. it wouldn’t be in the public interest for them to be aware of WHO it is doing them.
I note the need to pass these laws without a mandate from the public may have been down to the Josef Hartinger dilemma. A doctor offered a full confession to Police, and as the State IS responsible for the offences committed by their public officers (Corrina Horvath case at the UN) …….. where would that buck stop? Himmler also needed to separate himself and his colleagues out from the ‘treatments’ ordered by the psychiatrists at T4. Why am I reminded of the mantra coming from our Minister for Mental Health of “added protections” in the new Act? Just don’t tell the public who it is being protected…… and they will never know their rights have been removed, until it’s way too late.
Anyway, Australia is through to the World Cup, …….. and complaining about ‘sportswashing’ by the human rights abusing Saudis. They should read surah al Munafiqun lol.
Take care James.
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Boans,
It is good to hear from you. I hope you are as well as you can be and find some manner of peace.
I really like your observations of Fanon, I was recently able to read some of his stuff and study his life a little. It was incredibly illuminating. I will admit i did not understand the honesty of colonialism until I read about his earlier life and the time he spent in Algeria during French occupation. I found it very interesting that the French took the ECT machines that were used for psychiatry there and used them to torture the rebels for information. I believe the works that I read were before Wretched of the Earth, I do have that book as well although i have not read it yet. His earlier woks shined quite an illuminating light on psychiatry. It is very interesting and powerful, what we learn from people who are fixated on simply telling the truth.
After reading everything you wrote I do have some questions that occurred to me. When i look at the incredible suffering that many of us go through(and you certainly seem to be included in that), do you think these things were meant to be? That these events were predestined? I spent a lot of time and energy fighting for a way to see justice and trying to heal, however no matter my efforts they all seem to get thwarted, to such an extent that it seems to defy logic. I am wondering if you think we were meant for these circumstances which would mean that no matter our efforts we could not have prevented them and we cannot get out of our difficulties until they are meant to be lifted. At first I thought all of these circumstances in my case were the result of cause and effect, however lately I have begun to look at things in a different way – a way in which, where perhaps we no longer need to occupy ourself with the desire to try and rectify what happened or seek justice. This has been very helpful to me because like you, it seems we have both identified that the systems by which mankind has enacted around us make justice and these other concepts of fairness we have impossible to access.
I think you outlined very well some very critical observations and wisdom about our current state of governance, which is true for both the US and Australia – and I am willing to guess the majority of governments in the modernized world. I think most of the people around us choose to ignore or are completely ignorant to the reality we are seeing. Its much easier for them to believe that the world actually functions in a free state when in reality people with power have robbed the people around them of their freedom by their selfish actions(and you are right its not just monetarily motivated, its motivated by self interest, hatred and many other factors – money just seems to be the most obvious, most rational and possibly most common I think). I actually learned what was happening innocently and unknowingly. When I was working at a huge corporation I noticed that they would change their bylaws and policies often be it HR, departmental or operational policies. At first i thought it was for better functionality or to enhance profit but then I noticed that some of them did not make sense. Some of them flagrantly slowed things down and did not serve a legal monetary or other logical purpose. It appeared that these changes served just the single function of stroking this particular departments ego. After even more time i realized that new execs would come in and just change all manner of things from big or small to be able to control everyone in whatever way they wanted, sometimes legal and many times illegally. Even HR would uphold illegal corporate rules and bylaws if the executive told them to do so, which is both illegal itself and unethical – furthermore should never be asked to be done by any human being ever. We should not ask of or require any person to do something that is wrong. However the environment had become so invasively evil and morally compromised not even staff members who were trained for many years to act ethically would even give it a second thought.
I had always told myself well this is just one bad business, what i did not understand that that point was that this mentality had become completely endemic and had long since penetrated almost all levels of government, medicine, religion and large businesses.
They rewrite the rules over and over again with any authority they can in order to derive a state of control. With this control they then execute their own will and anyone in a similarly suited place of power is able to do so as well. The rules are often written so accountability is ambiguous and impossible. Organizations and individual responsibility is all but impossible to identify or resolve. The organization is always the answer not the acts of the individuals executing their own interests. Much like organized crime, like Peter Gotzsche mentions in his book.
I think what you have found here is that now anyone who is an individual is inferior to those serving a government or organization because what were once just laws are now rewritten over and over again so that they are now tools of oppression and injustice leveraged to keep the power of organizations and the ones who run them intact. It seems there is an infinite number of ways to control others but very few ways to honor freedom and peace.
Thank you for mentioning Joanna’s paper, I have not read this one yet and I find it very interesting. You mentioned a perceived shortcoming of it. I think that’s fair. I think the Dr’s that write generally, and definitely the ones that are critical of psychiatry, are burdened by an obligation to speak objectively when they should feel free to write things that are articulated more philosophically. I think it takes an excellent balance of philosophy and objective thinking to get to the truth. We are both well aware of the fallacies evident in scientific observation and thought, like correlation not being causation and such. There are many false inferences in medical science in particular because they have no requirement to be philosophically correct and as such pharma capitalizes on that fact and falsifies things with that purpose. Another form of control and self interested manipulation of others. Just as cunning as changes in governmental control meant to imprison its citizens instead of serve them.
I did see some of the hub bub about euthanasia in both New Zealand and Australia, i found it very interesting and a microcosm for how government is working and viewing things. Important observations can be made about the framework in which they are operating. I think these tings are important to understand. Again it seems maybe the best we can do is understand what is happening because the game is rigged against us as individuals and we are unable to get justice or fair treatment any longer, it appears our best efforts are to understand and circumvent any chance of dispute or harm that could result. Its an odd occurrence I have asked myself, where are you now? How do you look at things now compared to before you were injured and denied justice? I have become pretty extreme and yet maybe not at all, I take responsibility for every action I take medical or otherwise and I expect to take the full repercussions from those actions, I do not depend on anyone to help me if something unfair happens or I am harmed. This has been a huge shift from my mentality before TMS – I had thought i could rely on society and government for justice or help but I realized that was a big mistake. It appears that the self reliant ways of our ancestors was maybe the right way from the beginning. I used to think this way but i was slowly indoctrinated against it.
I wonder what your thoughts are, i know i asked a few questions in there. Thank you for sharing as always and thank you for pointing me towards new resources, examples and occurrences that shed light on what is happening.
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Hi again James,
thanks for taking the time to respond.
I think your questions may have been extremely difficult, if not impossible for me to answer as the ‘person I was’ before being subjected to these crimes (sure I understand the “edited” documents means they’re no longer crimes, but medicine, but lets deal with facts rather than fabrications). But I have been on my knees for some time now, and believe that what needs to be done has been revealed to me via my Book.
“I found it very interesting that the French took the ECT machines that were used for psychiatry there and used them to torture the rebels for information.”
Can such torture be used for ‘good’? We know how easily the torture can be called treatment, simply call the torture victim a ‘patient’ and it becomes medicine [this being the loophole on the Convention against the use of Torture. People made into a ‘patient’ before they are even examined enabling arbitrary detentions and denying human rights]
I know my State (read politicians for a fee) believes so as a result of ‘expert opinion’ they have enabled the use of this ‘treatment’ on children. The huge monetary benefit for the Shock Docs considered a ‘side effect’. And the public is told they have “added protections” in the Act, just don’t mention it’s the Shock Docs being protected from litigation when they damage children without parental consent.
“At first I thought all of these circumstances in my case were the result of cause and effect, however lately I have begun to look at things in a different way – a way in which, where perhaps we no longer need to occupy ourself with the desire to try and rectify what happened or seek justice.”
It’s tiring, as I feel certain you know. If not you, then who? I think that it’s a tangled web that we were never meant to have the capacity to understand (faulty design of the brain?). But there are those who are of the belief that when they don’t like the truth, they simply damage the brain to ensure that it isn’t capable of understanding the truth. Balaams Donkey?
Would hitting someone over the head with a ball peen hammer stop them being concerned about their childhood trauma, and their ‘eating disorder’? The immediate problem and damage concealing the past? Then doesn’t ECT work? It’s simply a matter of getting it to a point where the ‘consumer’ can stomach the process. Like Seligmans dogs, we’re going to need to force them to learn how to avoid the punishment. (I don’t agree with myself here by the way lol).
I believe that God allows us choices, and that despite us not making the right ones all the time, we will eventually end up right where we need to be. Successive approximations. These are ‘tests’ and your striving for justice for others is possibly the greatest ‘charity’ you can give your community, in His eyes anyway. I could quote from my Book such things as “do not conceal the truth when you know what it is” etc….. they have become so much a part of me that I no longer feel the need. I have seen right through it all now, and know of some means of ‘testing’ the heart for evil. they think they are too clever, and too well resourced to ever be held to account. And treating God the way they did me? He’s a nutjob and will never figure it out?
But I do not wish to stand before my God and be accused of having the chance to make things better and have nothing to show. And whilst I doubt very much that I would ever make the grade, I just feel this drive to keep on trying, despite having the State deliberately fuking destroying me the whole way (they will fight you till the bitter end I was told only last week).
I made mention in a previous post about the Treaty at Huddabiyah. It is worth considering that ‘agreement’ in modern terms. The State makes an agreement with the ‘people’ via the U.N. to not torture. It’s an agreement with a loophole though that relies on trust. This is what ‘we’ call fitnah…. let’s see where they go with it when they can exploit our trust….. and my instance shows they can not be trusted with our trust (the hypocrites). Especially given they think they are not being watched lol I mean really? These are the people who are spying on everything we do (the paranoids). And will the truth be exposed in the end (the unbelievers)? I don’t think they make coffins that big for them to ‘take it to the grave’ with them. And then there’s the fraud….. all of this has been exposed in the Book, by a ‘whistleblower’.
“They rewrite the rules over and over again with any authority they can in order to derive a state of control. With this control they then execute their own will and anyone in a similarly suited place of power is able to do so as well. The rules are often written so accountability is ambiguous and impossible. Organizations and individual responsibility is all but impossible to identify or resolve. The organization is always the answer not the acts of the individuals executing their own interests.”
So you’ve read the Injeel? Yes, they rewrote that book, and it has become an unreliable source of information. You might want to consider the effects of that and the way those methods are applied to ‘modern times’.
I watched a series of docos recently about how the ‘shadow government’ has been working to ensure the safety of a few, while leaving the rest of us to die, should disaster strike. I have a great example from when I worked for the State. What would happen if they found themselves in a situation where for example a building was known to be harming the health of all that were using it, but to expose that fact would mean a panic? Such a situation would need ‘management’, and the exit of the few who were considered ‘important’ while the rest were left ignorant of the damage being done to their health. what if not all of those involved were not silenced with ‘confidentiality agreements’? Perhaps their mental health might suffer? perhaps they may need to have a report written about their ‘mental health’? And in the process fall into a trap due to thinking that these ‘doctors’ were actually concerned about their ‘health’?
I’m sure your aware of how to do a cover up, and with the resources of the State to fuking destroy anyone who dares question their right as gods to harm people to benefit themselves…….. only 3500 people, I mean do you know how much would be lost if they were told? International students would be cancelling their courses, word gets around………. no, no, no. 600k, versus 4.5M, the solution is obvious. The executive gets out, and the rest well…….. the clusters of cancers won’t show up for quite some time and ….. there’s treatments right? All hypothetical of course.
“I take responsibility for every action I take medical or otherwise and I expect to take the full repercussions from those actions, I do not depend on anyone to help me if something unfair happens or I am harmed.”
Major difference there. I had the right to take responsibility for every action I took, telling the clinic psych that I didn’t think being hit on the head with a hammer was best medical practice, so they arranged to have me ‘spiked’ and lied to police to have them ‘detain’ the “outpatient” with a knife and illicit drugs (conveniently planted) in case police shot me. They need to have a means to avoid any responsibility for their actions I note lol. The ‘chemical restraint’ ordered by the guy who wrote the prescription to conceal the offending not a choice I would have made either (I was told it would have made me very sick indeed). Still, this is Australia and the State needs to be able to snatch anyone from their beds at any time, and have the illness (yet to be identified) treated by a predetermined outcome. Stopping the heart an unintended negative outcome (side effect) of the ‘treatment’ required to silence the complaints of the person snatched from their home unlawfully.
I was pondering Pavlov’s dogs yesterday after making comment elsewhere. Sure they were being conditioned by the bell and food. But wasn’t Pavlov also being conditioned as he advanced with his experiment? You kick a dog for bad behaviour and it then behaves? Are you not more likely to kick it again when the behaviour is not desired? And the extinguishment of this ‘kicking behaviour’ now becomes difficult.
Does this not explain why ‘mental health professionals’ fall into the trap of thinking their brutality actually works, and that ‘outsiders’ simply don’t understand the difficulties of their ‘work’? They ‘chemically’ beat someone into submission….. this then fails to work so escalate and use the electricity? And surely it works with all of them. Note, them, not us. No way they would subject their own families to it.
Our Prophet (saw) expressed admiration for a man called Abu Bassir, who managed to have the Treaty of Huddabiyah renegotiated, and the unfairness removed. He did this by (a) escaping the man who enslaved him by asking to see his fine sword and then killing him with it, and then (b) abiding by the terms of the Treaty by not entering Medina, and instead attacking the caravans of the Quraysh thus making them realise that it would cost more to maintain the unfair agreement, than to cancel it. Muslims could now leave Mecca and live among their own people without fear of being ‘procured’ by ‘mental health professionals’ exploiting a loophole in the human rights agreements. Consider that all it takes is for a lie to be told by known frauds to enable the kidnapping, torture and death of the escaped ‘slave’.
I realised not long ago that the reason that I can not obtain any legal representation is due to the intimidation and threats from the ‘authorities’, not because what I am saying isn’t true. No money in it, the ‘lawyers’ I approached would allow children to be sold into sex slavery unless they were turning a dollar (though I’m not claiming they’re all like this. Though I doubt very much they would survive long in this environment). They have been adequately ‘rewarded’ for their negligence I have no doubt. Perhaps enough to buy there way past the pearly gates even? Yeah, maybe, I mean I know I can’t afford it. Who says crime doesn’t pay? The victims of thieves and frauds lol
I like to think about the actions of Lot. Walk away from this evil place while it is destroyed, and don’t look back. The ‘payment’ for their evil is in the mail.
I may come back to your comment a little later James, but hope this may give some insight into my thinking on these matters.
Take care and peace
Boans
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Just in case you don’t know how to do a cover up.
Consider that in the hypothetical I present above, the executive get to make a choice about the risk to their health, and choose to leave the building based on the urgent need to have the offices refurbished. The others who share the building get no such choice as they are not even aware of the serious risk to their health.
If the risk weren’t that serious they wouldn’t be ‘manufacturing’ a justification for their removal from the building because, as with covid “we’re all in it together” right? Wrong, they are quite prepared to risk the health of others, whilst ensuring that their choices are based on known facts.
Was this the case with your ‘treatment’ James? Were they ignorant, or did they simply pretend to not know that there was a risk? The test being, would they have it done to themselves?
I can only assume that as a direct result of the unlawful ‘leaking’ of my confidential medical records from the Private Clinic, that simply everything was handed out to the public hospital employees. That would seem a logical consequence of such a breach of confidentiality right?
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@Boans – “Unlawful leaking of your records”
I wish to alert the Americans in the audience that 33 out of 200 hospitals are reporting confidential information to Meta (Facebook) and information about appointments, diagnoses, etc. is “out there” and available to all who want to look for it.
Please, friends, take the best care with your privacy that you can. I’m sorry, I don’t have sources at my fingertips, but if you lookup “Hospital Privacy Meta Facebook” you should find it.
You don’t want your private information to be so widely accessible, as Boans story attests!
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@Boans – “Unlawful leaking of your records”
The method used in my instance consisted of having me incapacitated by ‘spiking’ my drink with benzos (an offence under our Criminal Code which …. police can’t find….. and which leads to other more serious offences eg stupefying with intent to commit an indictable offence but …… police prefer to provide material assistance to the criminals by flagging the victims and ensuring they are denied protection of the law).
The flow of information now needs to be reversed. That is, the Private clinic psychologist can’t actually telephone the Senior Medical Officer at the public hospital and provide the confidential information, he needs to call her and request it.
This creates the appearance that the law has been complied with (Federal Privacy Act). The victim…. I mean “referred person” under the Mental Health Act (your not actually a “patient” until you have been seen by a psychiatrist and given a diagnosis of a serious mental illness) is considered incapable of consenting to the release of their medical records from the Private Clinic. So the clinic psychologist who is at her day job but just happened to take the information from the clinic the night before when they were planning the ‘spiking’ and planting the knife for police has it on her desk ready for the call she is expecting from the SMO who will now write a prescription for the drugs that were administered without the knowledge of the “referred person”.
Truth is, that even a referred person has the right to confidentiality (until seen by a psychiatrist) but these are people who consider themselves to be above the law, and rightly so due to the negligence of police who will provide assistance to ensure that their criminal conduct is not pursued.
Note, committing an offense (‘drink spiking’ with date rape drugs) to make what would be unlawful (breach of confidentiality under the Privacy Act), lawful is an offence in and of itself.
Turning up in a Police Station with your medical records and documented proof of the offences an offence in and of itself (“I can arrest you for having your medical records” a Senior Constable tells me. Which seems strange that police are arresting victims of crime for having the proof but …. they’re the police right?).
So incapacitate the person whose records you want released, and then reverse the phone calls and the legal protection of the Federal Privacy Act is removed. The victims can’t consent to the release so it appears that it was all lawful, and now all you need is a signature on a prescription from the Senior Medical Officer to change the date rape drugs administered without knowledge into their “Regular Medications”. I have one here if you like, not like police are going to do anything about an Order of Australia medalist knowingly committing such serious offences.
The other method used was for the hospital to provide fraudulent and slanderous documents to my ‘legal representatives’ who then release that information to anyone else who I sought legal advice from. The Mental Health Law Centre forges and utters with a letter from the Chief Psychiatrist, and when I attempt to obtain alternative legal advice (at great expense), they are told to drop the matter and simply charge me for work not performed. They are also informed of the slander prepared by the hospital and provided to these ‘lawyers’, which is one of those ‘just between you and me Madam’ conversations.
I was amazed to find out I had become a violent psychotic, drug abusing wife beater who has a “stockpile of heavy objects” at his home. All that from a little twisting of words (called “verballing” where I live) by a corrupt public officer. Those fraudulent Forms then uttered with by others who were fully aware they were fraudulent.
I note that they are still using that fraud to ensure no action is possible to this very day. Still, I don’t have to face God and justify my fuking destruction of someone when I actively engaged in concealing the truth with falsehoods.
Fascinating when you look at the allegations made against our ex Attorney General, and the delays which resulted in the alleged victim seeking mental health services and then allegedly committing suicide (nothing certain with these document “editors”. I can’t help but wonder if she too was told “we’ll fuking destroy you” for trying to make a complaint?). Police who had ample time to obtain a witness statement, now finding “insufficient evidence”, while the hospital made ‘alternative arrangements’ to have me silenced. Pretty much what they said to me after refusing to take the documented proof they had failed to retrieve for the hospital concerned. All ‘hands off’ of course, that is get someone else to commit the offense and then fail to perform your duty.
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Ah! I found it. Not a conspiracy theory, folks, but a class action lawsuit: https://www.classaction.org/medical-data-tracking-privacy-lawsuits
Yeah. Protect your privacy, people.
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Hi again James, you write;
“I did see some of the hub bub about euthanasia in both New Zealand and Australia, i found it very interesting and a microcosm for how government is working and viewing things. Important observations can be made about the framework in which they are operating. I think these tings are important to understand. Again it seems maybe the best we can do is understand what is happening because the game is rigged against us as individuals and we are unable to get justice or fair treatment any longer, it appears our best efforts are to understand and circumvent any chance of dispute or harm that could result.”
I find myself wondering how it all looks from ‘outside’.
Consider, the laws were never discussed before or during the election.
They were then raised after the ‘new’ government had been elected.
We were told that 87% of the population wanted the laws, but no data was ever put forward to support this assertion, despite requests to do so. (make them think that the community is in support of it and they will likely support it themselves. The ‘herd mentality’)
The ‘critic’ (only one politician in ‘opposition’ to the laws) was only allowed to speak in terms dictated by the Parliament. There was even talk of making it a crime to make the comparison between these laws and the ones passed by the National Socialists in Germany.
A ‘media personality’/P.R. man was hired to ensure that the only news was their news.
The laws were passed with no data to be gathered on the numbers of people who accessed the ‘service’, and about 50 doctors I believe, signed up for the course.
Now, I believe it is the case that we have a need to reinterpret the term “coercion” as a result of the legal protections (did I tell you there are more than a 100 of them? The mantra of the Minister who bulldozed this legislation through) There is a problem with the cost of ‘care’ for people who reside in aged care facilities, and no doubt a cost saving at a certain point with each ‘unit’ that they ‘process’.
Now, as a result of my journey, I am aware that the State is authorizing the ‘spiking’ of citizens food or drink without their consent, and then having doctors write prescriptions for those ‘spiking’ post hoc. Any complaints and the facility concerned can “edit” the documents, and the ‘legal representatives’ who are supposed to provide assistance in accessing the protections of the law (did I tell you there are more than 100 of them?), are simply providing assistance to conceal human rights abuses by forging and uttering with letters purporting to be from the authorities.
They are actually denying access to the very protections they are charged with ensuring. Quite clever when you realise the role they are performing for the State, and as exposed by Fanon. They conspire against their own clients, with the human rights abusers Has me wondering when the laws denying Jews…. I mean ‘mental patients’ (that is anyone the Community Nurse diagnoses over the telephone) the right to practice law will be passed. Don’t like that truth? have police pick up the mental patient please, and ensure they are prepared for interrogation …. I mean assessment. see the methods used in Abu Ghraib to prepare detainees for interrogations. Well, what we were allowed to see from Abu Ghraib given that Obama reneged on his promise to release ALL the photographs.
The negligence of those charged with enforcing the law (more than a 100 protections) ensures that any substantive and procedural breaches do not see the light of day. The term to watch for in “insufficient evidence”.
Not sure if you know what a ‘despair squid’ is but …… the people who in their twilight years are being subjected to forced druggings and vicious beatings, and who then find themselves preferring the release of death are now considered viable options for some cost savings to the Corporations which are being enabled to profit from their ‘care’. Nice little earner if you get some shares in the cremation companies too.
The main problem as I saw it was the doctor who came forward to police, provided them with a confession. They now had means motive and opportunity, and would be required to act when they didn’t actually want to because ……..Josef Hartinger tells the rest. Our Politicians faced with the same dilemma as Himmler over the two deaths at Dachau.
It had nothing to do with ‘providing choice’. This was something that was available anyway….. or is there anyone prepared to say otherwise?
They covered their arses, and told us it was for OUR benefit.
Keep in mind these are the same people who openly discussed passing laws allowing the forced sterilisation of children without parental consent. The Law Centre showing how a child could go to school, be picked up by police and delivered for the procedure, and then returned to the parents after school sterilised. They took that out of the Act, but left the enabling of electric shocks for teens in. That was the “added protections” they boasted about in the media, the protections actually ensuring that doctors couldn’t be sued for the damage they did.
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As I am doing the research on TMS I agree with this. I believe those individuals from the details of their stories had far more other things going on other than just anxiety and depression. Sounded more like bpd on some of the post although I’m not a medical expert. But if I’m correct it does not work for that and also I’m seeing that meds are being stopped along with the consumption of alcohol which is the first thing that had me wondering if I was willing to give up my wine. We all know how alcohol already effects the brain so taking any risk of drinking along with treatment is def going to be a no for me
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I read with interest your experience and know it is extremely rare. It is also important to know that there are far more sophisticated TMS machines out there other than the rather antiquated Neurostar that in one study showed 42% of stimulation sites being too far posterior. There is also the pulse frequency that ranges from 10Hz to theta burst lowering the time to under 10 minutes in some cases and there is even a 3 minute theta. So coming to the conclusion with one machine, while sophisticated protocols and better training are doing great things leads me to this saying. Correlation is not causation. Good luck in the future remember there were those that felt the same way and felt harmed by the Salk Vaccine as well.
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I love the casual nature of my dismissal here. Perfectly fine cognitive processes for my entire life then after TMS I have had diagnosed long term cognitive impairment, not to mention my life is just a shadow of what it was before… I understand the difference between correlation and causation because I mentioned it in another comment before this post was made. Because it is hard to tell the difference between the two does not mean we should dismiss direct causation and or dismiss the suffering of those who are the stepping stones for others. We should most definitely not hide the possible side effects from those who have yet to try it.
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It is clear to me that you were entitled, BEFORE you ever were exposed to any TMS machine, to complete information regarding its possible adverse effects on your brain, body, and cognition. That would have given you the ability to decide properly on whether or not to subject yourself to it. It was unethical to not have been given that information so that you could have given true informed consent, or have declined that procedure.
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Peacock Pretty- Perfect comment! Yes, our world has gone haywire and people need to come to a repentance to a God who actually created us. The greedies on top are delusional of their importance, above God Almighty. That is the problem right there. Pride. When you have pride and don’t answer to a loving God you will do any thing, you would deem okie dokie….with yourself and others that are of that blindness, and, in turn, cruel.
They do not care about us and they are trying to genocide everyone and in every area of life. Like you said, food, medical, dental, virus, vaccines, movies, news, education, etc. Money is also their king.
Everyone should start looking around and be very careful with their health. Study what are bodies are supposed to eat. Holistic is the only way. I don’t care how non-invasive they say it is….Come on, it is magnetics zooming into your brain! God did not make us like that or to have that. There are so many other holistic “therapies”.
Cheaper in the long run too. Reflexology helps depression and so can massage. Those things are not going to hurt. They actually help the body to want to heal and to eat clean (non-chemicalized food). Parasympathetic is engaged and you chill. You want to be happy. You want whole foods too.
Our brains are an amazing creation and the junk they call food has messed up the bowels in which mess up the brain and a whole lot more. I could go on and on.
There is one of those clinics that opened up in Pacific N.W. I just want to picket in front of this place. Ugh!
Thorough warnings about ALL the negative experiences should be given before any consent. It would show a person cares, as a human being. Otherwise it is just from the pits of hell. I liken it to a modern day lobotomy.
Also, thank you James for being a strong and caring individual to help others with your story. Epoch (spelling?) news is not tainted news. This may answer some of the questions you and Boans were discussing. People will be lovers of themselves, money and lies. In the book of Luke ….Hope you read it. It is wild true and happening.
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I am late to the party, just found your article. I have bipolar type II. I have had a great deal of difficulty finding a psychiatrist where I live because they are in real short supply these days. I did finally find someone willing to see me, but they were not interested in putting me back on medications (which have worked in the past when I am having issues), but tried to get me to do this TMS method. I refused because it just sounded like quack science that the FDA hastily approved. I am glad I refused, but man, the fact that there isn’t enough information on the problems with this or any type of warning for patients on the side effects, and the possible damage it could do to your brain is crazy. Have you thought about getting with other patients through the forums you mentioned and trying to form a class-action lawsuit against the company that makes and promotes these machines? That is what I would do if you have the time, or someone to help you do it. Anyway, I just wish more people would think more carefully first before letting someone physically mess with their brain like this with a machine that can do lasting damage. Drugs can have bad side effects too, but at least you can stop taking a drug if the side effects are bad, eventually your body goes back to normal. This is permanent long-lasting brain damage and there is just no way I would let a psychiatrist or psychologist perform something like this on me. This really should be a machine that neurologists who are trained in neurology should be handling. I read that some of these psychiatrists do a minimal 3 week course to learn to operate these TMS machines. That is what is so alarming about all this. I really really hope you get better, I really do. Take care James Hall and thank you for taking the time to tell us your experience with this device.
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Thank you so much for the comment.
Well, i do have to congratulate you on trusting yourself. That can be more difficult for others but it seems you are really fantastic at it. For most of us hurt by TMS we were promised a treatment that would not cause any harm, certainly not long term side effects of any kind. And that is how we got hooked, that is when we decided to trust a physician more than ourselves most likely. I certainly fell for it. I was desperate for help and i thought i could trust other human beings.
Litigation is very hard to pursue as well, i have probably contacted close to a hundred lawyers and dealing with them is very problematic for copious reasons. They have a lot of criteria they want you to meet and some don’t even have the respect to call you back and tell you they have decided not to take your case. This has been another massive disappointment, it appears the legal system is about as problematic as the mental health system.
It is incredibly sad there is little to no regulation as well. I mean we are treating the human brain, the most magnificent thing that has ever been discovered by science and we arbitrarily treat it with potentially devastating drugs and devices. If done appropriately this could all be fine but there is an incredible amount of negligence and pure and simple fraud being perpetrated with no consequence. The FDA may as well have laughed off mine and every other report of harm from TMS because the results of their actions have been as much.
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The reason lawyers does not want to take your case it is because all studies shows that there are more side effects in the placebo group than in the active group. rTMS is for treatment résistant depression : why did you do it if your brain was “perfectly fine” and your cognitive function “at their best” before ?
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Hey James,
I am new to this chat, but do you have a minute to discuss this more in detail? I have several questions for you about the TMS stimulation and would like to learn more about your experience. Thank you [email protected]
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Thankyou so much for sharing your story James.
I’m sorry to hear your experience and losing your job, that is utterly appalling of your employer to do that. I geatly appreciate you sharing your story.
I’ve had depression but can’t take meds. Therapy and lifestyle is useful but I fear at some point TMS could be raised as an option. Why… because it’s a new fan dangled therapy. My instinct though is to be extremely cautious. So, after reading your post I would not get it. TMS seemed too good to be true.
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I am signed up for my first treatment on Monday and everything is pointing to, “Don’t do it!” Thanks for posting this. I think I’d rather deal with what God gave me instead of taking an extremely expensive gamble on nerostar.
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Good move!
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Smart move
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Brilliant, that is not always the easy decision but its one I have fully embraced after all the harm TMS did to me.
I think often times we are a little too quick to jump to psychiatric interventions just because they make big promises and are widely accepted, when in fact they are very dangerous – whether those dangers are disclosed to us or not.
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Thank you for truthfully explaining your ordeal! I have been recommended to start TMS but my gut feeling was screaming red flags. I have learnt NOT to trust doctors after having an ivc filter placed in me to save my life from clots, BUT they damaged it while attempting to retrieve it and now stuck forever in me……ofcourse all along way told everything will be fine! Because of your story I will stay away from TMS,!!! It sure does sound like too good to be true!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING!!
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I realize I am replying to your response to another person but I could not find a way to just comment. I was researching TMS for chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia that I’ve been suffering with for 30 years. My initial gut reaction was I don’t really want to try something that could potentially mess with my brain and I’m so glad I found your article. Your story deeply touched me and I really pray that you will find solutions. I wonder if you have heard of Dr Peter Breggins. He is a psychiatrist that believes psychiatric medicine can be very harmful and he has been a legal expert witness in many legal cases. If you go on his website: https://breggins.com you can click on the link “Legal Expert Witness” there is a phone number that you can call. I hope he can be of some help. Wishing you well.
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Hi James hall ,my husband is a victim of tms and he has almost the same symptoms as yours. Can u please reach out to me .I have no one else to turn to. We have been to docs and he did this treatment last October. Still has all the symptoms.
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Krishpachu1,
Sorry to hear that, I understand entirely.
I am always glad to try and help, hang in there and feel free to email me at [email protected]
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James I would like to leave my story but can’t see exactly how? Also is there a website with FDA you reference?
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Sars,
If your thinking about submitting your tory to MiA, you can do it here –
https://www.madinamerica.com/submitting-personal-stories/
The FDA has instructions on how to report defective devices like those used for TMS here –
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/medical-device-safety/medical-device-reporting-mdr-how-report-medical-device-problems
If these are not the references you were looking for let me know so I can try and help further.
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I wasn’t allowed to start a new comment. I am studying MHMI this semester which led me to your article. Thank you for your story. Now I am aware of this procedure.
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khags,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. Best of luck it is a tricky industry, and remember to always think for yourself.
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Hi James ,please look into my following advice as I think what you need is ‘potassium iodide lugols 10%’ . Iodine is essential for life. It’s what millions of years gave us as our immunity , it is responsible for all hormone production in the body (fixes depression). It also stops heavy metals etc from crossing the blood brain barrier . Fluoride displaces iodine without this defence for our brain metals bind to the fluoride And they hitch a ride to the brain and lodge there. I believe that magnetic pulse has made all the heavy metals in your body travel straight to your brain ! ( if you drink fluoridated or chlorinated water there would be a lot) !! It would of concentrated them to a point it has probably formed decent blockages which would somehow be almost misfireing and disrupting signals and normal signal pathways. That ringing in your ear would be almost like interference from metals disrupting your hearing signals!! I have the best news yet though iodine is the only thing that actually removes heavy metals from the brain slowly but surely. You need to have iodine with rainwater though otherwise it won’t be as effective as it truely can be! Study of Deceased Alzheimer’s brain has heavy metals built up in the memory part of the brain. Iodine is an element our bodies need ! A baby in the womb needs it to form. Forget about all the new age treatments this is not guess work . It rids the body of bad or sick cells and replaces them with healthy ones. I believe it will repair a lot of the damage for you. I had a debilitating illness called morgellans and after a whole lot of misinformation and negligent treatments I was losing brain cognition and knew I had to find something before it was to late. Luckily after 3 yrs we found this iodine it has now been 7 years and I am now basically back to better than before health! It has changed my life when I thought my life was over . There is so much info on the internet try the book “iodine why we need it and why we can’t live without it “. In the 1800s or early 1900s it was the most prescribed medication with the least side effects . I hope this helps . Take care and all the best
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Cobie,
Thank you so much for this information. I started reading up on it this morning and it is very interesting.
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James
I didn’t read all 200 comments and this is not my area of practice but getting fired for a disability is unquestionably illegal. If you haven’t been able to find a good lawyer, try your local bar association. The one in my area charges $50 for a consultation and referral service. Employment lawyers would definitely be able to help you.
I get that there are a lot of crappy lawyers out there. I’ve worked with some. But there are many people (like me) who went into law for public service not profit. I’m confident you’ll be able to find someone. I know this is just one small part of your story but discrimination against mental health and neurodiversity is appalling.
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The sentiment is much appreciated SH.
I have run across some great lawyers but they just aren’t able to help. I also know some really fantastic individuals helping as a public service but they are also in different areas or not able to take on something like this(The injury claim).
The problem seems to be the Injury sector, not many operate there and the good ones I was able to find refuse to help because of the difficulty and capital it takes to really dig in on this type of case in an ethical way. The problem really ends up being is that there is a massive threat to public health but the FDA is entirely useless and it is far too difficult for injury lawyers to take the risks that would help instigate change. So in the meantime thousands of people are coming to great harm while the clock ticks away on the watches of people who refuse to act when they should because they don’t want to take a personal risk.
I did not have a choice in the personal risk I took.
Thanks again, for the comment, I hope you are well.
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“getting fired for a disability is unquestionably illegal”
There are some great lawyers where I live who will take a look, inform the people who have broken the law of their problem, wait whilst they retrieve the documented proof of their offences, and then utter with a fraudulent set of documents prepared to ensure that anyone who does look, gets to see the “edited” version of events. The victims ‘flagged’ as ‘pariahs’ (did I mention he has a mental illness?) and the lawyers quite happy to put the boots into someone while they are down (for a fee of course).
And the law? Well, Police tell me they don’t have a copy of the Criminal Code, and that they can therefore arrest me for having the documented proof of the offences (mainly because their automatic referral to mental health services for “hallucinating”, claiming that you have been ‘spiked’ with benzos before interrogation was supposed to have been retrieved before the fraud was distributed), they refuse to take said documents, and return the complaint as having “insufficient evidence”. In the meantime, you end up trying to argue with your own lawyers about why it is they do not understand the difference between “suspect on reasonable grounds” ( a burden of proof with criteria to be met for ‘referrals’ to be lawful) and “suspect on grounds the ‘officer’ believes to be reasonable” (quoting the Chief Psychiatrist here in his rewriting of the burden to enable arbitrary detentions based on nothing more than a ‘suspicion’) Now this guy provides “expert legal advice to the Minister” and yet doesn’t even recognise the protection offered by the Mental Health Act?
Might be some great lawyers in the U.S., but in Australia they are being used as Police informants, and a means to ensure that human rights abuse’s are going unnoticed. (see Lawyer X scandal).
With no privileged communications in common law in Australia, nothing you tell your lawyer, doctor, psychologist, priest, or partner is confidential. The State allowed to use ‘coercive measures’ against them to have them release that information should it be required. So I had a psychologist asking me “who else has the documents?” for police. He then told me he was “afraid for his family” when I explained that there were a large number of people who had been made aware of the Police concealment of acts of torture and kidnapping for mental health services. (Imagine, one one side he has seen proof of police corruption, and knowing he may need to bear witness to the Corruption watchdog, he has police threatening him to say “it never happened” ie the attempt to refer the victim of torture to mental health for treatment and NOT take the documents? What do you do? Use the slander of illness and refer for ‘treatment’ lol)
Always good to take a look at what ‘good’ people will do when they are put to the test. Kind of ugly though when you realise they are not the people who present themselves as being ‘good’. Fortunate for me someone didn’t have the stomach for the planned resolution.
But I accept the U.S. I saw had some people who were prepared to stand up and say “this is wrong” without being concerned for the safety of their family from the State, and their ‘elected representatives’. Cheaper to ‘treat’ anyone who has evidence of misconduct in the public service, than actually deal with that corruption? I can see the argument that they are protecting the interests of the community by allowing such people to be ‘unintentionally negatively outcomed’, but isn’t there a conflict of interest?
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James, this is very disturbing, moreover because you were referred to this harmful ‘treatment’ by a primary treatment physician. Huge disconnect from someone who is supposed to follow an ‘evidence based’ model of care. It is critical that your doctors considers the evidence you present with your body before he refers more unwitting victims to this barbaric ‘treatment!’
Recently, I received an advertisement from a TMS provider in Eugene, Oregon, asking our organization to help him ‘advertise’ this ‘groundbreaking’ new treatment to psych survivors. My response was shock. Didn’t he read our organization’s website? My response was to write a single page letter, sending it to the TMS provider. I had hoped to get a dialogue going, maybe a face to face meeting. No such luck. Tellingly, I never received a response even though his office was only blocks from my office.
How would you suggest educating primary care physicians about the danger of this ‘treatment’? Could we wage a letter writing campaign targeting your treatment provider? Please feel free to write to me at [email protected].
How many providers of TMS are there in the Pacific Northwest. With your background in computer science, perhaps we could wage a smart campaign on social media.
I am concerned that as more and more of the data about the harm of psychiatric drugs is exposed, new, even worse ‘novel’ treatment will strive for ‘market share’. I can imagine the cognitive dissonance that will follow as TMS providers invest tons of money in this new technology hoping to win many new patients.
Since both my son and husband experience tinnitus, both military related, and my husband experiences hearing loss, and Menniere’s disease to boot, I understand the horrific ramifications of hearing loss and vertigo that you are experiencing due to this awful ‘treatment’.
My son’s only relief from his tinnitus is playing the harp and the violin. He finds tones and chords that match or are in ‘harmony’ with the exact vibrational pitches (Hertz) of his particular tinnitus and cancels out the annoying sound at least once daily. He also runs a fan at night when his tinnitus bothers him the most. This white noise is helpful. My husband experiences tinnitus periodically, often related to changes in the barometric pressure and unfortunately, must resort to sleeping pills when it is very bad. Vertigo and hearing loss are constantly dogging my husband; it is hard enough for my husband to bear but he is seventy-two years old, is retired, and finds great solace in nature and solitude. I can’t imagine how it must be to be in your ‘prime’ and go through this hell, as a provider. My heart goes out to you.
Have you searched for an attorney yet? I am hopeful that you will find justice and pave the way for the inevitable other casualties of this ‘miracle’ break-through ‘treatment’
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“Have you searched for an attorney yet?”
If not, do your research. I got charged 3500 for being told how expensive their time was. Not that they could actually help me, they were at first excited to see that I had the documents demonstrating the torture (“I thought you were mad, but you’ve got the proof” to quote the lawyer concerned. This is how slanderers and frauds operate, creating false beliefs with fraudulent documents).
But they quickly realised what the government does to people who have the proof of human rights abuses by the State. Best they just empty the pockets of the victim and leave it at that. Charge you thousands until you realise that they are not going to do anything to assist you, and are acting on instructions from another party.
And be particularly careful of the words “this is just how we do these things”. Prepare yourself for a rather sharp pain between the shoulder blades as the knife enters your spinal column.
Eugene Oregon? Bet it gets cold enough there to see lawyers with their hands in their own pockets.
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Boans,
You are right, and thank you for the advice as well. It is a massive challenge looking for legal help. Talk about another huge farce in our modern culture. I have been searching for an absorbent amount of time just to get help with a simple problem. The current system is intended to dissuade people from justice and equality. I have been charged for ‘advice’ that I was able to readily get else where for free. I so frequently get people who are quick to empathize with me and acknowledge the massive problem but dozens and dozens(all of them) of them have all refused to address it. Even worse is going to a big firm that has the means to help and you watch them Cherry pick and turn you down because your case is not simple enough, meaning they don’t have the stones to be the first one to litigate and they have plenty of other clients who have simple cases with easy money. I had no idea the lack of integrity out there until it was staring me in the face. To be fair I have met some that have offered me really helpful advice for free and continue to but it still hasn’t gotten us where we need to be.
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Removed for moderation.
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Your husband and son would most likely benefit from TMS. Just google TMS research. You’ll have a hard time finding negative effects simply because there aren’t a lot negative effects to report.
You can even follow some of the links James posted which actually contain mostly positive experiences.
What James experienced is most likely purely temporary. It will go away. Most people do not experience that. I’ve seen 1000s of these sessions first hand (I’m a TMS technician) and it has saved the lives of countless vets and children alike.
James’ experience is not the norm. That’s why it’s so hard to find articles like this online. But go ahead and search for negative side effects for prozac or adderall (which James claims have no lasting damage without any sources) and you’ll see thousands of articles.
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JJ, Please take a look at the FDA reporting as well in the MAUDE datbase for TMS. Then call up the folks hospitalized by physiological side effects from TMS… Then call up the loved ones and family members picking up the pieces from the suicide of their loved ones that occurred as a direct result of their TMS treatment, as stated by themselves and their loved ones and medical professionals. This is a subjective account, not a medical journal. Your right the side effects are not well published, its upsetting I had to dig so deep to find out about what happened to me. Just like the first people experiencing the long term effects of prozac. There was a time when there was nothing documented. TMS has only been widely used for a few years.
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It’s been around since the 80s James. Longer than prozac.
You had to dig deep because that’s how rare the side effects are. And your sides are only temporary. TMS changes brain state for about 6-8 months.
“call up the loved ones and family members picking up the pieces from the suicide of their loved ones that occurred as a direct result of their TMS treatment”
This is simply false. Again this claim has no sources to back it up. Just hearsay. If TMS were this bad you would see case reports all over the internet like you do with prozac (of which listed side effects include suicidal ideation). Drug companies have far more resources than do TMS companies to scrub bad reports. TMS companies are tiny in comparison to big pharma. They simply would not have the resources to scrub online cases like big pharma would. So I ask you again. Where are all these negative side effects you’d expect to find online?
TMS has been widely used in research labs all around the world since the 80s, and widely used in clinical settings since the late 90s.
MRI machines use the same magnetic fields but at much higher intensities. Serious question: have you seen any negative effects from MRI machines on people?
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JJ,
You don’t have to believe me. Nor do I care about how hard you are trying to refute an experiential article. I do however take issue with you dishonoring the memories of the dead and suffering. The proof is there, it is in my group, it is in the lives of the people I know. It is there for anyone who is interested to observe and study. It has been reported to the FDA, it exists whether you believe it or not.
Your belief in it does not make it true or false. It is true because it was witnessed, not because you fail to believe the witnesses testimony.
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jjnoles,
Anything and everything gets past the FDA, and when someone wants to, they hire a private company, no need for the FDA. It makes no difference if it’s big Pharma or any other enterprise, they always like to deny responsibility, or EVEN that it has down sides.
And EVEN if under force, exposure it is brought to light, usually the arguments are, that it was the users fault, or they downplay the effects.
Many people don’t even post bad effects online. MANY people harmed by drugs just go away quietly.
If your technology causes change, perhaps you can change the damage or “negative effects” back? I mean your techs know HOW it works, HOW to map, so it should be able to undo the bad.
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He responded that the only reason it wouldn’t is if I had developed a different neurological problem during treatment that was unrelated to TMS. If that occurred, I should go see a neurologist.
If he’s not a neurologist why is he fucking with your brain?
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Too right, Sam! Can you put it back the way it was?
It is difficult to report a treatment when, if you go to physicians, you are gaslighted into believing “it’s only your ‘illness’ which is causing these problems.”
This is why the drugs took so long to be excoriated.
Physicians don’t like to contradict other physicians, and declare “OMG you’ve been HARMED.” Even James Hall’s neurologist said something like, “Well, it will likely clear up, but I can’t find anything . . . ” refusing to contradict this physician referred “treatment.”
I suspect it is brain damaging, and that the damages caused by TMS “regulate mood” somewhat. Sadly, James got the damage without the mood regulation.
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I just did some quick research and the FDA did not approve of TMS as a therapy until 2008.
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TMS literally saved my life last year!! I had 2 rounds and after the 2nd felt better than I ever felt in my life. I am presently in week 4(out of 7) of a 3rd round and so far don’t feel one bit better, in fact feel worse. I actually had fairly quick responses to my first 2, especially the 2nd. Don’t know that I will continue but am out of options. I am totally treatment resistant to meds and will not do ECT or ketamine due to the higher risks of those. I’m sorry about what TMS did to you but that is so rare and of course there are risks with any treatment we undertake. It is a travesty to totally negate a treatment because of the rarity of others responses. TMS has been very successful with many. As I said it saved my life last year. Just don’t know if I will continue this round but don’t know what else to do. And by the way, I was on Prozac for ten years shortly after it came out and for me and many others I knew it was a wonder drug. I would still take now if it worked.
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I’m confused – you said Prozac was a wonder drug, but you would “still take it now if it worked?” Did you stop before you did the TMS?
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bbenditt,
Not only is the list of people severely injured by TMS growing exponentially by the day, I am hearing from more and more people who have become overtly injured by their second round of TMS.
This serves as a validation to the evidence of electrical injury because this is the same thing we see with ECT survivors. For the majority of ECT patients, reported benefits wear off somewhere around the 6 month mark on average, which gets them back looking at ECT to help them again, if there was some perceived benefit. This cycle repeats again six months or less after the next set of treatments. This is reverently referred to by the ECT harm community as the death spiral, where the repeated harms that were once not noticeable eventually stack up until the patients are severely injured or killed by the treatment. We are seeing the exact same thing with TMS.
If you look at the physics of the treatment, it is virtually impossible to come out of TMS unharmed. You are exposed to hundreds if not thousands of times more electromagnetic energy than is safe for a human to be around, let alone directly applied to the brain. Feel free to read my follow up article outlining the applied physics and harms of the treatment https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/01/tms-hurt/. That being the case, the only question is whether you can perceive the harms being done or not. Most people are spellbound by the cognitive impairment generated by TMS and mistake it for improvement, or the endocrine system simulates feelings of well being to try and offset the damage the body has undergone. Hence the very short efficacy time of treatment, the same you have admitted here in your own comments. If TMS worked so well, why are you back for more treatments so soon? Just like psychiatric medications, it is a revolving door. It can create the illusion of efficacy just long enough for you to think its successful, and then by suffering from delayed harms it is creating a revolving door where you run right back to it with the mistaken idea that it healed you when it actually harmed you.
The therapeutic mechanism of TMS is unproven and undocumented, the only evidence out there is subjective and theoretical. However the mechanism of harms for this level of electrical and magnetic energy is well documented.
It is also supremely offensive to say that TMS harms are incredibly rare and to suggest that the treatment should escape scrutiny for that reason. I have personally talked to hundreds of people whose lives are completely upended with constant misery and suffering, they are real and they are significant – far more significant in number and evidentiary finding than the people who have reported relief from it.
Your praising TMS and Prozac when they are likely responsible for your predicament. On top of that I am not sure you conveyed an original thought on either one, but repeated drug and device company rhetoric to me here.
Perhaps you should reevaluate your situation when looking for a solution? So far every single person i have met and spoken with had relatively small mental struggles, but after a few rounds of psych meds or other psychiatric treatment they are scrambling for anything that will help relieve the mental pain and suffering they are in. Good mental health is incompatible with pills and electricity and they will never be the answer in any form. They may distract or provide temporary relief but this is a slippery slope as the often forgotten small detail is that all medications are poison and all treatments cause harm. The object of the game is to cure a problem in exchange for a temporary harm but what medicine has orchestrated most typically is trading the harm for symptom relief and no cure, this is a losing game and most don’t realize the real harm they have done because it comes from a friendly face.
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BTW TMS devices are class 2 medical devices in the same class as electric wheelchairs in terms of safety. The MAUDE database is filled with all patient reports about medical devices. Of course you’ll find adverse reactions across all medical devices. That is the nature of the business.
Remember this is mental health we’re talking about here. Many of these patients are on drugs legal or otherwise while getting treatment. Many of them are not in a stable state to begin with.
If I told the doc I was seeing aliens after my TMS procedure they would have to log this in the MAUDE database. These patient reports are not investigated by any authority or followed up with. They are simply reported. It’s a disservice to prospective TMS patients to go digging in unverified databases that would report a person seeing aliens while using an electric wheelchair. Again this is hearsay of mentally unwell patients. None of these cases are investigated, just reported as is requirement for FDA. You’d see this across all medical devices. This is healthcare after all.
In science this would be called called cherry picking your data.
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“this is hearsay of mentally unwell patients”
Ouch. When asked about a report that identified that 45% of female patients in our hospital system within the previous year reported being sexually assaulted our then Minister for Mental Health stated to our Parliament, “you can’t listen to them, they’re mental patients”.
While it might be hearsay, they still have a right to be heard, and their claims investigated in an objective and unbiased manner.
Though from personal experience (noted above and other places) there are people who, when the truth doesn’t suit them, are prepared to commit criminal offences to ensure that the outcome suits their needs, and can result in a large amount of harm being done to others before the truth is revealed. Then there becomes a need for a cover up of the cover ups.
For example, the hospital that tortured and kidnapped me were so engaged in covering their own ass, they failed to notice what their co conspirators had planned for me to conceal their criminality. And now , it gives the appearance that not only were they concealing the torture and kidnapping, but may have been involved in the planned killing. Not that it matters to my government, with negligence, fraud and slander via the mental health system anything is possible.
Ugly.
A Class Two device in the same Class as Electric Wheelchairs, and therefore perfectly safe?
Let me have a cigarette and think about that.
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You’re right James I don’t have to believe you and you dont have to believe me.
Although there are thousands and thousands of research articles that dont report any such effects from researchers who have nothing to do with any profit motive and are just curious neuroscientists. Millions of people have had this therapy world wide.
Your effects wont last long enough for any lawsuit to happen. Theyll be gone by the time you get your day in court.
We can leave it at that. I trust in the science.
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“curious”, neuro-scientists”?
Curious is not good enough to dick with other people’s brains.
So the unknown effects won’t last long? If that machine can cause them, and since that brain is SO well mapped out, I’m sure the tech knows exactly WHAT was affected to cause unwanted effects and can use the machine to get rid of them.
Why wait until the naturally go away? Why send him to a neurologist if these “curious neuroscientists” have the “MAP”?
Even neurologists are curious, and even they do not have a “map”.
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Your right, two years isn’t long enough… I am sure they will subside soon and the four years its been so far for others… Not quite long enough… Feel free to keep the faith in the science that puts people in the ground.
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Madmom, lol, I love the name. Thank you so much for the comment and advice with the tinnitus. I run the fan at night as well to get some relief. I had not tried finding other tunes to match but that is an excellent idea I will try.
I know MiA has had write ups on how incredibly negligent it is for GP’s to be involved in psychiatry. I have several family members permanently injured from taking life long psych meds from GP’s. I had a really interesting run in lately though. I found a GP who almost exclusively prescribes supplements instead of pharmaceuticals and he claims a better success rate in dealing with anxiety and depression. After seeing how much damage pharmaceuticals do early in his career he refused to prescribe them. He told me, his son went to medical school and has been indoctrinated to think his dad is now a heretic for the practice. Mad times we live in, just mad.
You are right about the corporate strategy model as well. I have witnessed the greed and disregard for the human impact in another type of business but i know it when i see it. Thats exactly what is happening with TMS, there is a mass marketing campaign that is beating the science behind it being exposed as shoddy at best. I have read other articles about the same thing happening with all these pop up clinics to treat the rampant depression we are experiencing(I would say that it is because of our departure from true community but there are a million reasons) with different injections like Ketamine and what not, there are massive horror stories. Why as a country would we let this happen? Nobody wants to focus on the downsides, just the hope of recovery, but at what real cost? How about we slow down and focus on doing no harm, like was originally intended.
I am seriously and actively looking for legal help. It is very difficult as I cannot find anyone who has yet litigated this kind of case and other firms doing alot of good like DK Law with ECT are over commited elsewhere.
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Imagine how I feel.
I get the documents proving the fact that I was kidnapped and tortured. I then obtain pro bono legal advice through the Mental Health Law Centre (the only game in town as far as many law firms are concerned as they ‘specialise’ All roads lead to Rome. They then become a point of contact for anyone else you may try, and send them away with ‘nothing to see here’).
The lawyers don’t wish to view the documents I have obtained (though I have fully explained what is contained in them re the ‘spiking’ with benzos), and instead make application for ‘unredacted’ documents from the hospital, which they have a legal right to given they sign a non disclosure agreement regarding any identified areas they are requested to not discuss with their client highlighted by the hospital [this supposedly protects the human roghts of their ‘clients’, but also puts them in a position to aid and abet in the abuse of human rights]. So in my case the hospital would have been asking, in writing, for lawyers to engage in a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice over the criminal offence of intoxication by deception. See why they wanted the documents I had back? Because they just couldn’t ask lawyers in writing if they would jump in with them and engage in criminal conduct, better thats done over the phone and in a ‘just between you and me’ manner. And I don’t expect anyne to believe me, but the evidence is there. Due diligence is all I ask.
The hospital, working with my wife has police attempt to retrieve the documents I have showing the ‘spiking’ with benzos (because that would expose the fact they are torturing citzens). And once they are of the belief that they have achieved this goal, they then send a fraudulent set to the MHLC who make a complaint to the Chief Psychiatrist based on that fraud. A response is received which rewrites the law to allow arbitrary detentions of citizens (from someone who provides “expert legal advice to the Minister”) and other bizarre claims that were totally untrue and misleading, and the MHLC doesn’t have the time to read the response, merely to hand it on to me (a poison pen letter).
It is my belief that this letter was NOT written by the Chief Psychiatrist at all, and that the Minister has contacted her ‘friend’ at the MHLC and had them forge a letter of response to ‘fuk me up’. For this they will receive government funding.
What sort of chance does anyone have when legal represenatives are acying in such a manner, knowing that their criminal conduct will be ignored by authorities?
This is what was written regarding a lawyer who has been “struck off” recently.
“Lawyer A conduct in knowingly giving false evidence intending to mislead the Magistrates Court constituted professional misconduct,” it said.
“It was conduct that would justify a finding that Lawyer A is not a fit and proper person to engage in legal practice, and conduct that would reasonably be regarded as disgraceful or dishonourable by Lawyer A’s professional colleagues of good repute.”
Let me say that these fraudulent documents sent by the hospital to the MHLC very nearly ended up in a Federal Court, something which they would have been well aware of the possibility. In fact, this is how they are releasing and distributing fraud and slander to the public, via legal representatives. And of course the people who you are trying to have held to account have a lot more money to bribe and ‘coerce’ these legal representatives with. (at this point I can hear Bob Dylan singing “you’ve got a lot of nerve, to say your are my friend. When I was down, you just stood there grinning…….” lol) “colleagues of good repute”? Where does one find one of those I wonder.
So whilst I may not be able to prove that the letter from the Chief Psychiatrist was forged by the Law Centre to ‘fuk me up’ (and thus I must act ‘as if’ it is in fact from him), I know that the legal representatives of “good repute” are aware of the facts of this matter. If it was, there have been more than a few lawyers look at that letter and were shocked at the level of incompetence and neglect of duty contained therein. And I do hope they have acted rather than as was explained to me, “taken out insurance”. Setting others up to take a fall not really an option as far as i’m concerned.
I guess it would depend if the Chief Psychiatrist is prepared to take the whack to his reputation to save a legal representative who is forging letters from him to throw ‘clients’ who have been subjected to human rights abuses under a bus for the Minister?
Yes, were all in it together alright. Lets beat up the victim of kidnapping and torture because were so powerful nobody would dare touch us. Sad part is they’re right. And they are quite open about it, like the Operations Manager who I explained to that what she was doing was criminal, stated openly “we’ll fuking destroy you”, and then went about that with full support of her “colleagues of good repute”.
Best bet James, have a bigger bank account that the TMS company. It’s the only way you will be able to obtain efffective legal representation. I know the large number of lawyers who have turned their backs on me did so because they know they are up against criminals who will commit acts of fraud, and double down every time that fraud is exposed.
It IS the law here that you can be denied access to a legal representative. Police haven’t got a copy of the Criminal Code so they will just arrest you for being the victim of their criminal friends. And I now understand the effect that is having in the area of human rights abuses. I can’t imagine the US allowing such a denial of rights, but they may have found means to achieve that end.
Inconvenient truth, call police and have them drop the truth to a hospital Emergency Dept and kill it. Though I have always found that simple solutions are not really solutions at all.
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I was amazed that the Principle of the Law Centre published an article pointing out that the Chief Psychiatrist was a position that by law, did not require that the position be filled by a psychiatrist. In fact, it could be filled by a ‘human rights lawyer’. [for example, the principle of the Law Centre? ie ME. hint, hint, like ME.]
Now of course if one were doing a few favors for the Minister and ensuring that people who were being snatched out of their beds, ‘verballed up’, and tortured had no right to a remedy, one might obtain the support of the Minister in achieving such a highly paid public office. And especially given that the Chief Psychiatrist in this letter of response I have has demonstarated he wouldn’t pass a first year law course.
The problem I have with this is that a principle of a Law Centre who is engaging in criminal conduct (and concealing human rights abuses in our hospital system) with support from a Cabinet Minister is nothing more than a criminal, and by definition is not actually a ‘human rights lawyer’.
Now those who know me at MiA know that I am not a fan of psychiatry and psychiatrists. But let me say I’d rather the guy we have at present in the role of Chief Psychiatrist than a corrupted lawyer who has obtained the position via the blood of a whole bunch of victims she has turned her back on, or even actively engaged in harming doing cover ups for the Minister.
“colleagues of good repute” I point out that not only must justice be served, it must be seen to be served. Anything less is a travesty
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Boans,
I can’t argue with anything you have said. In fact i have been witness directly or indirectly to the same mechanisms here in the states. In fact I know the process your referring to by law enforcement is called ‘Pencil Fking’ it happens everyday depending on the mood and climate of the organization. Having witnessed it from a young age I made sure I steered clear of the grey areas it occurs in. It has still happened to me in minor sorts. I still deal with the unresolved anger that it generates at times though. As for the rest, humans are interesting creatures, I have witnessed it in the highest detail at the highest level of the american corporation, but it occurs in every place I have ever been at least in small amounts. The wheels get greased. Humans are exceptionally good at it. If crime occurs, if lives are taken, if suffering is engaged in, people look the other way as long as the car keeps moving, they will even go to extreme lengths to ignore the aforementioned unpleasantness as long as the vehicle keeps moving. I was once taught 80, 10, 10 and I have an inclination that it applies to anything human. the Lower 10 percent of people will commit crime or do the wrong thing even if they get caught or incur negative results. 80 percent will do whatever is easy, commit crime, hurt someone else, whatever, as long as it is easy and nothing bad will happen directly to them. The upper 10 percent will do the right thing even if it means they are punished for it. I have heard the same numbers applied to survival scenarios and crime. Maybe its just the human mind? Bad news for the wheels of justice and human treatment. I am glad you are brilliant and speaking up, many of us who are not, are crushed and swept under the rug, names we will never know.
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“The upper 10 percent will do the right thing even if it means they are punished for it.”
I think it must be the gene pool here as a result of the British dumping their criminals and corrupt public officials here for generations, but that 10% seems to be missing lol. Your Founding Fathers called traitors for resisting the corruption of the Brits, our Founding Fathers (and those who have followed) called ‘patriots’ for following the lead of the Brits and their corrput methods. They will of course some day be seen for the traitors that they are to our Nation. Though the way we have lost what used to be a community over the past 40 years I wonder if that day will ever come. There was once a group of people here who cared about the future of this place for their children, the mining boom and the money seems to have brought the circus and all the side show hustlers who care zip about anything but money.
It is rather pathetic though, all these folk who make claims to being ‘appauled’ at the treatment of inmates at Abu Ghraib, then stand by as worse things are done to their own loved ones. The cost to the observer in both instances is zero, and the supposed gain is actually a negative. (I say that in that not a soul ever been cured in these places and many an angry soul come out with intention of harming others. Though that reaction to being brutalized is repackaged as being some illness that was untreated).
One thing I have realised about all of this is that it has identified the hypocrites. You know, the people we see in the documetaries about the Nasty Nazis who were human rights activists until they tasted the boot? Then they not only ran away, but actually became complicit in the crimes.
Positively 4th Street. It seems Dylan met these people too.
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Boans,
I think community is disintegrating everywhere, except places that have not tasted monetary corruption. You make an excellent point, we are lucky if we get to see them for who they are.
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“Best bet James, have a bigger bank account that the TMS company. It’s the only way you will be able to obtain efffective legal representation.”
Not hard to do Boans. There’s maybe 6 major TMS companies and most of them are tiny.
It seems as if you are talking about Big Phara which has billions as its disposal. But if you look at the market TMS companies are tiny without the financial resources to do what you’re talking about. Maybe one stand out is Neurostar but again they are tiny compared to your typical pharma company so I’m not sure what James or you are referring to when talking about “mass marketing” efforts. Again maybe you’re getting confused about big pharma. TMS companies have no where near the marketing might of even a small pharma company.
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I am mad as hell that I did it. I have no short-term memory. I have a stimulator, labyrinthitis neuritis I’ve been having seizures. I can’t walk a straight line. I’m dizzy and I throw up all the time. The vestibular vertigo is just terrible. I wish there was a way to do a lawsuit against them because I didn’t help my depression and when my last session was over, they were just like well we can’t help you and I walked out of there like I felt like I was all alone and I didn’t give a crap don’t ever do it is the worst thing I ever did.
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Diana White,
I am so sorry to hear that, thank you for sharing here.
The injustice of the situation is far beyond comprehension. Our government and communities have abandoned us by allowing this to continue in the state that it is and by withholding our attempts to be heard both in public and in court. There is no excuse.
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Hi there. Appreciate you telling your story. I have taken your horrible experience into account. Truthfully, I am still contemplating this therapy because there is so much documented success and my depression is severe. I will however proceed with much caution though and do more research though, so thank you. I’m wondering if Perhaps they miscalculated your therapeutic dose or something. I 100% believe you, ; I’m just hoping I could be one of the many people truly helped with this therapy because no drug has given significant improvement of my depression. It is however, very scary going forward, knowing that there are these troubling side effects. Now please here this lol : I am a paralegal with just one year of law school so I can’t legally give you advice; but here I’m gonna go, giving it to ya anyway because my advice is right. Lol! I don’t know what lawyers took your dough on this one, but the way this particular type of case works is on contingency fee. That is contingent upon the firm proving , winning your case collecting the settlement money. In personal injury we take cases we think we can win but we take our chances on these cases. We don’t get paid if and until we win. That’s the way it works. Why was someone charging you hourly or whatever? SMH. I used to screen cases for a personal injury firm that I managed for 18 years. We never charged a dime til we already won the case. Yep, the busier the firm, the less likely they will have to put time into a tough case though that’s going to require a long battle with the very real possibility of loss. In fact, what I’ve read so far, and of course I don’t know everything but I know you can’t win. So a law firm won’t want to waste their resources on this. Law firms are not all bad, well some are, but they have to pay the bills. But I don’t get your lack of getting calls back or proper advisement on what to do or how long you have Geez. This is the thing though, did anyone tell you what you would need to have in order to win??! I’m being straight up honest with you because I’m not sure anyone has sadly. And how crazy if lawyers let you go without advising you or giving you any direction whatsoever. Again smh. It just seems no one has given you proper counsel. I do not know all of the facts again but i do know how to win these personal injury cases and Your case has a big red flag on it in my opinion. You have the burden of proof and it has not been met. Plain and simple. In order to win ( and my firm always did cuz of me lol) , you do have to meet the burden of proof. That is not by telling your very real experience, I’m afraid. It would have to be documented by a dr that in his professional opinion your loss of memory, cognitive function decline, tinnitus etc was absolutely caused by this neurostar treatment. Then you could submit the damages and wrap this baby up against the manufacturers. If a law firm has not told you this very quickly, free of charge, I am ashamed of my profession. Of course, the defense would have a dr on their side to dispute this ( your doctor’s declaration). However, you’d have a case worth a lawyer investing his time in. What you need is that magical dr. To have a shot at winning an individual personal injury case. That is the key here to having a winnable case. Yep, lawyers have to cherry pick to make money. I believe in your story but either you have that brave medical professional willing to stand behind you ( or literally get on the stand for you) or you do not. You won’t win without that tho. Sadly you are kind of ahead of your time here. As these stories keep surfacing, more attention will be paid to this, thus more research will be done and perhaps doctors will be connecting the dots of this treatment causing whatever damages. I think a few years down the line, there will be some sort of class action; Hell, that could be what’s brewing here with you at the forefront! but as for Now, most important is that time is not on your side here!! God I hope someone has at least counseled you on prescription. You only have so much time from the date of the discovery of your injuries in which to file your lawsuit !!! In my state, we only have one year from discovery of our injury in which to file a lawsuit. However if you are wanting to sue a dr for medical malpractice ( for whimsically referring you or directing you towards this treatment) then it’s three years for medical malpractice but that’s a real long shot. I’m really worried about your prescription period here. So if you haven’t been advised of this , please get on the horn and specifically ask these questions to an Attorney you trust ( if there still is such a thing lol) now Cuz this time has been running on you. If you do have a lawyer willing to take a chance on this case, they must at least file your lawsuit to interrupt prescription. Now as you keep on preaching about your story and others do, one day all this is going to progress and eventually there should be significant documentation where physicians will feel comfortable making bold declarations in your favor. Honestly, they are afraid to condemn a treatment if they are unsure. Unfortunately, they can’t just take a few patient’s word for something like this; because yes, it’s been mentioned in this discussion already… the elephant in the room … they are dealing with patients being treated for psychiatric issues. I’m pointing out the obstacles I see as someone who screens cases and wanted to take cases I knew I could win. I’m rooting for you, I believe you but would I take this case? I wouldn’t waste your time or mine. I wouldn’t have taken a penny from you and I would have made sure you knew your time clock in whatever state you are in. Unless….you can get that dr. That dr willing to get on the stand and declare your damages are a direct result of your treatment. I hope you can get one or that you have one. You need that professionals opinion babe! And quick! Good luck and Godspeed.
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I would go after the maker of these machines. I had posted above to James that he should try to see if he can do a class action lawsuit with other patients.
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“….only reason it wouldn’t is if I had developed a different neurological problem during treatment that was unrelated to TMS…” they’ve got their ‘lines’ prepared.
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“I have talked to quite a few medical professionals who deny that what happened to me is even possible.” That is known as the “white wall of silence,” it’s always the patients’ fault. I ran into that as well. “they’ve got their ‘lines’ prepared,” is right.
It seems everything the psychiatrists do is harmful to the patients, but profitable for themselves. The psychiatrists should be ashamed of themselves.
I will say, however, the human body is an amazing thing, which does work to heal the damage done by the doctors. So I hope you do heal with time, James. Although, sometimes it does seem our bodies can not always heal all the adverse effects of the psych treatments. For example, I’ve had “brain zaps,” a known (except by the psychiatrists and doctors) withdrawal symptom of the antidepressants, for almost 20 years now. But I have learned to control them when awake, and I can “brain zap” a headache away in a New York second. So hopefully, you will gradually heal, or at least find ways to turn the harm into something that is at least somewhat beneficial to you. Keep the faith (but not in psychiatrists).
Thanks for sharing your story, James. I didn’t know much about TMS either. And I agree, “having open and honest discussions about the realities of mental health treatments in America” is very important.
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I still remember the icy feeling I had when they told me that. It felt perfectly rehearsed.
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Yes! I am from the PNW as well, I have been experiencing the same exact thing….as I mentioned before, the details were so exact, I thought I might have wrote this article and just forgot.. Not really, but verbatim what I am experiencing.
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“When you are taking an anti-depressant or other pharmaceuticals, you can stop taking the pill and your body will naturally flush the chemicals out of your system in time. With TMS, there is no way for your system to do that.”
I can assure you that there is no return to back to normal after psych drugging, either. At least and especially not in my case being drugged as a child into becoming disabled. Most people can go on to cope and develop work-arounds to function after some drug induced brain and body damage, especially if it were minor, but otherwise, there are people in group homes rocking back and forth, grunting and drooling and bobbing their heads around with tardive dyskinesia because of psychiatric drugs they were put on as children, and as this is NOT politically correct or culturally acceptable to acknowledge for what it is, they remain labelled as mentally ill and are forced to take cocktails of the very drugs that ruined them in the first place.
Oh, and at an astronomical cost to tax payers while professionals and drug companies have nothing but benefited. Few as lucky as myself to have supportive parents still suffer the damage to their brain resulting in cognitive problems, emotional problems, multitudes of odd and sometimes transient movement and sensation problems, and all that you could expect to result from that; substance abuse and addiction, depression, and words that do not even exist to describe the anxiety, rage and desperation.
And it is still occurring. Psychiatrists and parents, with support from society, are drugging children with psychotropics to manage emotional and behavioral problems, and “mental illness”, and the professionals and drug companies are still bringing in profit and benefitting.
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“When you are taking an anti-depressant or other pharmaceuticals, you can stop taking the pill and your body will naturally flush the chemicals out of your system in time. With TMS, there is no way for your system to do that.”
Thank you. This made a lot of sense. When I read this statement I immediately dismissed the rest of the article because factually it’s simply untrue.
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JefferyC, Thank you for calling that out. To stop taking the pill is most often not enough to get back to normal. I realized the subtly of my mistake after my second draft and choose to leave it in as an attempt to illustrate just the short term experience I had, meaning in an equivalent amount of time electively taking a script vs doing TMS.
My experience has been bad enough but in all reality I could not compare it to being detained and drugged or simply drugged as a child. We are supposed to be advanced but most days I just see us going backwards. I am glad you have some sort of community to cope in your parents.
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Thomas Szasz had an interesting perspective of this, in that in ways, this is like history repeating itself; the inquisition except now it is psychiatrists who are the priests, and medicine that is the religion.
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JefferyC: Drug damage is too true, and I would hazard a guess that Mr. Hall’s use of antidepressants (even intermittently) was the thing that made his depression “sticky” and “chronic.” At least that is what Mr. Whitaker’s work points to.
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Yes, you are so right about psychiatric prescription drugs and the damage they cause as well. Most of the time, Tardive dyskenesia is irreversible. Stopping the medicine doesn’t help and it is basically a life altering, tragic condition to live with. Thanks for your input.
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I am so sorry this happened.
The salesmen care about their income, that is all that is behind these experiments.
Perhaps we should ask our providers to go first or at least have the “treatments” alongside of us?
It only seems logical that if no risk exists, I’m sure the tech and primary would not mind going first.
Psychiatrists found it useful to make primary a shrink also, since the primary, after causing the problems will send you to a shrink. The shrink will pass you to a neurologist who will pass you back to the shrink.
Because each one of them has no clue, and thus, a shrink who does not have to answer to anyone, can keep you as a customer forever.
And in all this, they pretend to be “scientific”.
Lawyers are useless, because the “medical” community exists within their own legal system, which is granted to them by laws of governments. Or law of gods, what have you.
Malpractice, experiments are the norm, not the exception. It is called “medical care”
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Hmmmm is this treatment a bit of a modern day shock treatment ..,hmmmm but disagree all lawyers are useless. He hasn’t spoken to the right attorney. I gave him my legal advice above. I only have one year of law school ; I’m just a Paralegal but from what he described, he didn’t get any real help from many legal professionals which is baffling to me. I told him what he needs to get to win and about his need to find out the prescriptive period in his state to protect himself. No one should have charged him to investigate a personal injury case they were taking. That’s a gamble we take. It’s supposed to be contingent upon the win. He shouldn’t have been charged if they didn’t win his case. Awful really.
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Yes, but attorneys won’t take the case if there is no win.
Doctors have a shield called “Standard of Care,” which on the ground (and in the courts) looks like, “But this is what all the Doctors do,” and if the treatment complies with Standard of Care (they usually do), it is not an actionable lawsuit.
Proving Psych damage – whether drugs or otherwise – is extremely difficult. The victim of the “treatments” also has a diag-nonsense to invalidate their claims, and the doctors can claim rebound and relapse and progression of illness. It’s a hard case to get heard, much less win. The best successes have been in class action, where story after story after story of the same horrific symptoms / results get heard better.
So the next legal question: who wants to pursue a TMS Class Action? That’s not your usual “no fee up front” ambulance chaser.
Someone who wants to work with the law might want to look at how to change “Standard of Care” as a defense.
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True. I told him that I could see a class action on this possibly in the future , after a lot more complaints have rolled in. Then they could find an attorney that would take this on. And yes, it would be contingent once they could see a light at the end of the tunnel. That’s the way the established firms do it and definitely they would take a case like this once more negative data rolls in on this treatment. At this time, I don’t feel there is enough. As for now, as far as him pursuing an individual personal injury case, I told him what is missing here and that is the medical professional he could put on the stand to correlate his horrible side effects to this treatment. I wasn’t referring to a medical malpractice when I was pointing this out. I meant a products liability against the friggin manufacturer’s of this Neurostar Machine. He needs to do this quick due to the prescriptive period on personal injury cases. A medical malpractice against a dr , I agree, would be soooo much more difficult to get cooperation from professional witnesses or a win. That medical professional that would testify that the machine caused his adverse symptoms is what he needs for success here. No one ever said his case would be easy obviously. However, with that witness, it is something I would take a chance on winning and I screened for cases like this for two decades with about 98% success rate. Just my two cents.
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Protection from personal liability
(1) An action in tort does not lie against a person for an act done in good faith and without negligence in the performance or purported performance of a function under this Act.
————-
(4) This section does not relieve the Crown from any liability that it might have for an act done by a person against whom this section provides that an action does not lie.
(5) In this section references to an act done include an omission.
The recent death of a 7 year old child in my State as a direct result of negligence should be quite revealing. I am yet to hear of the “Standard of Care” defense being put forward, only our Minister for Health going to the home of the parents, and visiting the hospital in the middle of the night. (I find myself wondering if the Operations Manager might be telling them that they will be ‘fuking destroyed’ if they keep complaining about the excellent service their family received from the hospital, and the documents relating to the childs death being “edited” before being ‘leaked’ to the media. Being able to deny access to legal representation a distinct advantage for the State)
As you say Jan Carol the problem with proving psych damage is particularly difficult. And in my case, the ‘attorneys’ were doing what they were told to do by the State, the people providing them with funding to act as an ‘early warning system’ regarding human rights abuses, and when there was a need to “edit” realities and ensure that victims of State sanctioned torture were ‘outcomed’ before anyone noticed the ‘error’ lol
I think in Australia the case of Corrina Horvath may be of interest, particularly where acts of criminal negligence by public hospitals are concerned. Though I note from experience, the hospitals “editing” involves removing the proof of crimes, providing the fraud to legal representatives to be uttered with to other attorneys, and then ensuring that civil action for tort is not possible. Not if the attorney values their families safety that is. And being allowed to empty their ‘clients’ bank account before throwing them under a bus due reward for such ‘collusion’ with the authorities. (worked for Nicola Gobbo so well, and for others who are yet to have been named in a Royal Commission, which is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes)
Using the methods they are ensures that it leaves Hollys success rate of 98% for dead. The dead tell no tales. Literally. And with police claiming “insufficient evidence” and telling me that “it might be best I don’t know about that” (referring to the ‘alternative arrangements’ that were made to conceal the acts of torture) then their excellent human rights record is understandable. With no effective legal mechanism (the Convention against the use of Torture Articles simply ignored by the Authorities as a joke. As the witnesses who have been threatened by Police) for victims of torture to use, and an Attorney General who doesn’t accept complaints or even know where they should be made, what chance have citizens got? And it does explain why this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9UQKBUrsg&t=3s
and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcoaLGy-gwY
is considered “Standard of Care”
Always a Shock and Horror from the Ministers concerned. Though I get the feeling they are more shocked as to how one slipped through their net that ensures these sorts of matters never see the light of day rather than being offended by the acts which they should ‘have the stomach for’ when they take the job. I mean come on, when you have someones lawyer providing you with information that allows you to “edit” your legal narrative before providing it to them, surely none should even slip through the net? And the increase in funding to the Law Centre as a result? Paid for from the tax of the victims, nice, very nice.
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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-father-ordered-to-give-inhaler-to-child-he-believes-doesnt-have-asthma/ar-BB12YYJz?ocid=spartanntp
Interesting. I knew this would happen, but some family members think I’m being a conspiracy theorist.
When my son was 4 or 5, his pediatrician heard his wheezing. He tended to get croupy sounding coughs when he had a cold. I was not convinced that he had “asthma”, since I was the one who lived with him and would never make him suffer short of breath.
So I opted against it. I took the script and left.
He is 28 now and has never had asthma, yet if he had taken these chemicals, which do their own damage, and are still chemicals being inhaled, who knows how compromised he would be.
There is going to be more of this crazy shit. Our “medical” people have gone compulsive on us
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Sam – Your no conspiracy theorist. I have seen the abuse of medication, both psychiatric and otherwise over and over again. Our culture in the US, is just take something for it and so doctors just hand out scripts for everything… which generates massive malpractice. How is that ok? How can the human body take care of itself if we take something every time we have a problem? That is just intoxication. Science has taken over for wisdom and common sense. My problem comes from the same mentality. Just fix it, without serious contemplation of the outcome. Monetizing medicine doesn’t really seem like a good idea to me either… You mean a doctor makes more money by pushing more meds and seeing more patients? So there is no monetary incentive for him to heal his patients and keep them healthy? Only to keep them coming back? We are strictly relying on doctors to be exceptionally ethical… how many doctors are in the US and around the world? I am not sure we are gonna make that arbitrary line in the sand there.
I am glad you were vigilant for your sons sake. My son had Croup for awhile and he got better, it was scary as hell but I knew I couldn’t just give him anything without remaining skeptical. I feel bad for the folks that don’t know any better and rely on their docs.
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I would not call what most psychiatrists do “science.” It’s not common sense, either, of course. It’s largely parroting of pharmaceutical marketing, though I’m sure a lot are deceived into thinking it has something to do with science.
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I heard Chomsky speak about the 4 Corners of Deceipt.
“Science”
“Media”
“Academia”
“Government”
Drug companies are following capitalist logic and in the process corrupting each of these corners. At what point will we begin to recognise this fact (present company eccepted) and have some leaders take medicine back from these thieves?
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I actually think “Science” should be put in quotes, because REAL science uncovers what is known AND what is unknown. “Science” that is manipulated by corporations or other conflicts of interest is NOT science at all. It’s religion or it’s marketing.
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Steve, your so right, my interactions with psychiatry has been so odd, pseudo science at best. It certainly cannot be related back to the scientific method in any way and you cant take the subjectivity out. I am not sure why so many people have to pay such a high price for it.
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Sam – too right! I know people who have been “addicted” to their puffers since childhood, and there becomes a tendency to hit the puffer anytime one is anxious or uncomfortable. It seems that the long term consequences of the puffers is similar to any other drug use: the body acclimates to it, homeostasis sets in, and the next thing you know, you “need” the drug.
Asthma is a huge business here in Oz, and I have wondered: what if the children were taught QiGong breathing exercises instead? Or yoga? When will it be acceptable for a GP or paediatrician to have a “breathing” specialist on staff?
As children, we change our breathing to squelch our Shadows, our “unacceptable emotions.” (ref: Dennis Lewis, “Natural breathing.”) So there is a psych element involved in these puffers and their use as well.
If a child learns to breathe through emotions – then they will not suffer “shallow breathing,” which leads to asthma.
I’m not a parent, so I’ve never been through the fear of “my child cannot breathe!” and the trips to the emergency room – so – perhaps I’m not qualified to comment. But perhaps that child never learned to breathe through their feelings (without suppressing them) to begin with.
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Removed for moderation.
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One thing that strikes me about TMS marketing is that the procedure is called “noninvasive.” Anything that purports to change one’s brain via sending electro-magnetic pulses through it is, by definition, invasive.
Also, as has been documented repeatedly, it is primary-care doctors who often place people on the psychiatric treatment train, often quite casually as happened in James’ case. I imagine sales reps from TMS machine companies make the rounds of GPs just as pharma company reps do, assuring doctors that these newfangled devices are “safe and effective.”
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And docs are not innocent. They know full well what they are doing. The reason they keep living the lie is because they believe they are “medical” and HAVE to practice according to “rules”.
It is amazing how two faced my doc was. I know she was weak, and so indoctrinated into saving her honor and butt, but really?
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They do, I told some docs that were trying to help me, as well as my therapist and they said that same company had come by their office to try and market to them. One doc had the flyer sitting at his receptionists desk as it had just been delivered. He had also had patients actively asking him about the treatment and because of the way they advertise it he had been considering advocating it. He told me there was no way in hell he would do that after having met and treated me. It would be silly to think the same thing is not happening across the whole country.
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Hey bud, I’ve been giving you all kinds of free legal advice. I wish you would check through these comments because the info is time sensitive. I’m a paralegal that screened cases for two decades with a 98% success rate. This is my cup of tea and I’ve given you the blueprint here. Please check out my input. Good luck.
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Oh, one more thing. But please only read this after you have read the other advice I gave. If you get the medical professional witness I told you that you need to win, and then you have retained an attorney to pursue this case for you in time interrupt your very crucial prescriptive period then please also make sure of the following: when he files the suit against the manufacturer of the machine , he would also at that time need to include any and everyone that could have been negligent thus their actions or lack thereof resulted in your damages. Meaning , go ahead and throw defendants in there that may be a long shot. Because you’ve got to sue them all in case your main defendant wiggles out. So make sure you give your attorney the names of any defendants that could have been reckless with your health or the info they gave you. So more specifically , Neurostar, the physician that referred you to neurostar, the operators of the equipment ( techs even tho they really are included under the physician they are working for ), whomever gave the techs their training and so on. You want to throw the kitchen sink at them so you don’t miss anyone because depending on your state , there’s a good chance you can’t add them later!! They can always be dismissed out of the lawsuit later but only once you have gotten someone that had accepted liability and is willing to pay you! A good attorney will know all this. Good luck in getting the right one and pursuing this so you can be compensated for your damages! Also I know it is important to you to warn other people of the perils of this treatment and certainly a lawsuit won will create that negative buzz for those that are found liable. That will be very damaging to them and their reputation which is basically what you want. It probably wouldn’t shut them down entirely , but you would have your compensation and the public would be aware or warned because the word would be out there. I think it would still be a long way from completing disabling them but who knows. Just depends on the details and the amount involved in settlement and various other factors. Well okay. Now you’ve had my two cents quite a few times here. I think we are already at a dime. Lol. Carry on , my wayward son.. ;). Sherry
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[email protected],
Thank you so much for sharing all your thoughts on this topic. I do not think the incredible importance of it can be denied or ignored.
I appreciate your perspective and the details you enumerated for me. I have been working this particular problem for a very very long time now and had already come up against and had to learn about the issues you brought up, and those really were the hurdles I had to work through in order to get someone to take my case. I really thought that if I overcame all these obstacles that were thrown in front of us, it would end in some kind of win, meaning someone would actually take our cases collectively(although I do not think it will be a class action as the symptom set varies too much and don’t fit the very strict standard set fourth in the historical class action reforms, so it will probably be a kind of MDL litigation with each claimant bringing their own case particulars in different localities that are most advantageous for them) or at least one of the really simple and virulent cases with video evidence and other damning documentation. What I found however was something really different that I expected, I found that the problem was an ethical one not an evidential one or even a legal one – the case is there, its relatively simple overt and easy to prove. Its all been laid out and virtually all the necessary parties have been discovered, engaged and involved in a greater conversation about bringing the case. However, getting a lawyer or legal team to act strictly on the ethical basis of bringing a claim that needs to be brought because it is in accordance with the law and represents severe damages to individuals and a significant threat to our communities has proven to be impossible. The entities I contacted all refused to take the required monetary and reputational risk associated with the claim, although they would gladly take it with well established case types, and they were swimming in monetary liquidity. There are so many people in the legal community that present themselves as ethical, purposed, community protectors that do all this good to keep justice in balance and the fact is that is a very hard claim to bring when it is rarely done with any kind of risk. A good act has no merits if it is strictly self interested or there is no evidence to the contrary.
I have spoken to countless of the most prestigious firms in the US and I specifically sought out the ones who seemed to have acted with the most virtue and they all displayed a tremendous amount of self interest, even and especially when I was able to overcome all of their objections to the case. Their rebuttals and actions revealed a tremendous amount about how and why they operate which has perpetrated the failure to bring justice to thousands of horrifically harmed people. The failure is an ethical one, not a functional one which unfortunately has brought validity to the general disdain for the profession, of which is so supremely ironic i cannot even begin to illuminate it here – as this seems to be the same type of disdain people have for big Pharma and other higher systemic abuses. Whether it is negligent or willful is really the only thing that seems to pique my interest at this point.
As a point of interest, as I engage someone in the legal profession(injury law?), I would have to implore you to closely scrutinize the actions of yourself and your professional company. What is the motivation for your actions? Are they in the best interest of others and monetary profit is the byproduct of appropriate action or is it the other way around? Arguably, the latter is responsible for the manipulations and abuses of corporations and government to people everywhere of which leads to the physiological harm of so many in the US.
Id like to thank you again for bringing these issues up because everything you have mentioned is of paramount importance in a case that is already well established and is eligible to be taken by a legal professional, and not many people are having this conversation, so it takes courage to do so. If this had been earlier in my journey they would have been very eye opening and valuable but in any case will offer as much to others that walk this path in the future.
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Heya James,
It was so cold here last week I actually saw a lawyer with his hands in his OWN Pockets.
I have been reading your comments and appreciate them very much, particularly the comment above about ethics.
I wonder sometimes if we don’t recognise that what we have is a legal system that is being manipulated to pervert the course of justice. The two are very separate. Lawyers work the system, the perversion happens as a consequence. Knowing what to ‘plant’ on a victim for police, and when to do it crucial in procuring the services of Police in offending. And made so much easier when the ‘target’ can be ‘spiked’ with date rape drugs, and a ‘doctor’ who they never met will sign a fraudulent prescription making them their “Regular Medications” post hoc to conceal the acts of torture. Amazing what can be achieved in such an environment, and I no longer ask questions about why our system is in crisis.
My example is that the forged documents produced in my instance (the ‘verballed’ Form 1) are usually uttered with by State authorities as a means to ensure that public sector misconduct is concealed. So I have a letter from the Chief Psychiatrist using what is a known fraudulent Form as a defense of the Community Nurse who forged it.
The major problem in this is that they failed to recognoise that the Form was forged as a direct result of an act of torture (ie they ‘spiked’ me with date rape drugs and then basically put a gun to my head to force me to ‘confess’)
Article 15 (Convention against Torture)
Each State Party shall ensure that any statement which is established to have been made as a result of torture shall not be invoked as evidence in any proceedings, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made.
So now they find themselves in breach of this Article of the Convention, using a KNOWN forged statutory declaration, which was produced as a direct result of a KNOWN act of torture. The Minister now using the fraud produced by torture to defend the acts of torture, and claim it was ‘referral’ and ‘assessment’. The ONLY document that could make that true being the Form 1, and they investigated that Form and needed to defraud my lawyers to ensure it could NOT be tested (and then realise how it was obtained, ie as a result of torture).
Not that it matters. They are ‘unintentionally negatively outcoming’ anyone who dares question their arguments from authority, and using their own legal representatives to utter with the fraud produced by the State. They call this criminal fraud “editing” (despite legislation to ensure that human rights are protected by allowing legal reps. to examine unredacted documents. Putting into writing a request for them to conspire with the state to pervert the course of justice a step too far, so they “edit”, and then allow others to utter on their behalf)
“Political language… is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.” George Orwell.
“Unintended negative outcomes” lol Seemed a funny thing to call snapping peoples necks in a place they call a hospital. Josef Hartinger’s report is forthcoming.
Keep us informed please.
Many thanks
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I really have to laugh about the person who “provides expert legal advice to the Minister in matters of Mental Health Law” the Chief Psychiatrist
Consider, if I were a Community Nurse I have the power to have ANYONE I like taken to a hospital and force drugged should they show any signs of anxiety (a ‘chemical restraint’ with “No National Standard”). So how is this possible?
Okay, first I arrange to have the ‘target’ incapacitated by arranging to have them ‘spiked’ with a date rape drug. Once they collapse I can then call the Police and tell them that I need assistance with my “Outpatient” (they’re not really anyone’s “patient” I just want the police to think they are). Police will then raise the target from their slumber in a fairly confused state, and immediately hand my “Outpatient” over to me to do a ‘pencil fuking’ (I think was the term you used). There are of course laws against this type of conduct but they have never been enforced due to Police not having a copy of the Criminal Code.
So now I have the person in my custody, drugged without their knowledge, I can hand them over to Police on a fraudulent Transport Order (keep em in the dark about the “Outpatient” thing) and they can then subject the citizen to an interrogation whilst they are drugged without their knowledge. Once they are done torturing the victim (with a good faith defense because my acquiescence in not telling them that the person actually has human rights [ie not an “outpatient” but a real life person] Police can then drop their ‘referred person’ (Penn and Teller would be impressed at the sleight of hand there) to the hospital to be ‘chemically restrained’ before being examined by a psychiatrist who is basically a rubber stamp due to the person laying on the floor naked and dribbling from the mouth.
Now what I know as a Community Nurse is that what I have just done is a little ‘unethical’, but the great news is that the person providing the community with ‘protections’ of the law, doesn’t even know that anything I have done is unlawful. Or at least he doesn’t once the documents showing that this is what was done have been “edited”.
See to me, what I have done is conspire to stupefy and commit an indictable offense, namely kidnaping and torture (the “acute stress reaction,” forced into interrogations to ‘verbal’ and ‘spiking’). I have procured the Police to apprehend a person not suffering from a mental illness as defined by the mental Health Act, penalty 3 years prison (which the Police actually have the documented PROOF of, ie the phone call asking for their assistance), and then conspired to pervert the course of justice over the ‘spiking’ with date rape drugs with which the torture was enabled.
Well, this is a brief list of some of the offenses that are easily identified, but which can not be prosecuted because it’s just so much easier to “edit” the reality.
So in the end, the Community Nurse knows more about the law that the Chief Psychiatrist who is defending ‘our’ rights as humans to not be tortured and kidnapped by exploiting the Mental Health Act. I say he knows more because I have a letter from the Chief Psychiatrist saying that he can’t see a problem with anything I have described above….. well as long as the police retrieved the documents I had proving what I am suggesting, and we can then run with the “edited” narrative of “Outpatient” of ten years was ‘medicated’ with his “Regular Medications” (the fraudulent prescription for drugs I have never taken willingly) and became a violent psychotic drug abusing wife beater for 7 hours, until a psychiatrist realised that maybe he was just having a bad day as a result of being jumped in his bed and dragged off to a mental asylum in front of his mother and father in law. That’ll teach me to have “Potential for damage to reputation and meaningful relationships” and to allow my mind to be read when the Community Nurse travelled back through time and space to make his ‘observations’. And the Chief Psychiatrist, the leading legal expert in the State simply doesn’t have a question to ask about any of this, not one (well, he must have asked what the hospital had done about this matter and was informed that police had been procurred to retrieve the documents I had, “edited” ones had been provided to the Law Centre, and they had ‘fuking destroyed’ me and my family. So he was free to put the boots in further to someone he KNEW was a victim of torture. Nice fella huh? Nothing like kicking the teeth in of someone who has been laid out by someone else. I should be thankful, at least they are very expensive boots, leather, Italian, noice). His response to the Law Centre….. I dunno, they didn’t write it down (and what they did has been “edited” so you don’t get to see it).
So my faith in the legal profession here at least is one of skepticism, and in fact I think they are actively engaging in concealing human rights abuses by conspiring with State authorities to throw those who have been tortured under the bus (for an increase in State funding of course) and spreading slander and fraud further should the victims seek alternate legal representation.
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Howdy Boans,
I hope you are as well as you can be.
I did not know you spent time in the arctic.
I am glad i can help provide some validation in the area. I plan to keep writing about it. I have found it of profound importance that people begin to understand exactly how it works and the state of the legal system and those that participate in it. There seems to be a really large amount of misconception about it and even more misplaced confidence. I did not find it hard to learn about or understand these things, but yet everywhere I look people are seriously misunderstanding it. I think Media has a hand in that, as with everything else it seems, people begin to latch on to and form ideas of what our legal system is like based on the news and dramatic representations and reality is really stranger than the fiction we read and see on it.
I remember the details and information you gave me quite awhile ago, and set out to either disprove them or validate them – along with what i had heard form many others, and this is where I have landed.
It seems the legal system is another mechanism that can be paid for to do terrible things and in contrast has to be paid for to do the right thing as well and if you don’t have the money up front, you cannot afford justice or fair treatment. In your situation, those with control, motive and means could fairly easy torture and control you with no repercussions, I don’t really see my situation as being fundamentally much different, I just wasn’t trying to be controlled, I was just a bystander in the way of profits, and once they profited from my harm(the definition of fraud in the US) I had no recourse for justice or compensation.
I will gladly keep you informed, I am still gathering my thoughts and the details of how it plays out but I plan on allowing our community to be able to learn everything they can from my efforts.
– Also, I have found it very interesting how closely our treatment resembles torture under the statute you mentioned and also the UN definition as well. I recently cited the UN definition of torture when i wrote to several parties about the Court ordered ECT of Charles Helmer. While I do think the likelihood of any action against such crimes(that appear to be an everyday occurrence now) is not good, the argument does have perfect merit, and as such SHOULD give pause to any perpetrator who chooses to hide behind psychiatry, the DSM or any other system that enables these types of treatments.
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Hi again James
“There seems to be a really large amount of misconception about it and even more misplaced confidence.”
They said the same about National Socialism in the 1940s lol.
“It seems the legal system is another mechanism that can be paid for to do terrible things and in contrast has to be paid for to do the right thing as well and if you don’t have the money up front, you cannot afford justice or fair treatment.”
39. No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we
proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land
40. To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice
This from the Magna Carta. Though I must note that the people that write documents such as this or your Constitution tend to be EXCEPTIONAL people, and not those who stand by and watch the ‘showers’ in operation (or people enslaved), or who hear of such deeds and ensure the matters are ‘buried’.
“In your situation, those with control, motive and means could fairly easy torture and control you with no repercussions, I don’t really see my situation as being fundamentally much different, I just wasn’t trying to be controlled, I was just a bystander in the way of profits, and once they profited from my harm(the definition of fraud in the US) I had no recourse for justice or compensation.”
I don’t know that my community (not the State where I live which is gradually regressing from a place where they police with consent, to policing with terrorism) would easily accept what was done. They just plain don’t have the intellectual capacity to see it, and those that do ensure that nothing is done as a result of their negligence. A brief look at the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse explains a lot, where the systematic raping of children was seen by the ‘authorities’ as being a “character flaw” (and thus dealt with ‘in house’ by moving the perpetrators around) and not a matter for criminal law. Much the same is being done with people such as Dr Selwyn Leeks.
I know that my faith doesn’t allow me to see that there will be no repercussions for these people. They are being tested and may be of the delusional belief that they have ‘got away with it’ or that they are so powerful they can simply ignore the law (our current Minister for Health so delusional that he simply creates his own realities despite being provided with proof that he is uttering with fraud. But to be fair in such an environment who is going to tell him otherwise? Given he has refused to answer my question regarding the “editing” of legal narratives before the provision of documents to lawyers. Imagine changing the legal narrative of someone who had accessed the Voluntary Assisted Dying legislation to ensure that a ‘minor error’ (you killed the wrong guy. Woops) in procedure was concealed from legal rep.?) But yes, there was a time when the National Socialists had in the sun, and things were going really well, just like a Hawaiian holiday.
I note that yesterday the government introduced Bills to Parliament to (a) stop people having ‘offensive’ material on their vehicles (eg no slogans that do not fit with the Party line), and (b) stop cruelty to animals by ending ‘puppy farms’. Imagine that the crime of abusing an animal had a penalty double what was listed for the abuse of a ‘mental patient’ (and there have actually been prosecutions for abusing animals, whereas…… mental patients not so lucky to have ‘advocates’ who don’t throw them under the bus for the State). Another match when we examine the laws passed by the National Socialist’s, who actually banned round fish bowls because it was cruel to not allow the fish a corner to hide in when it was anxious. Imagine this is the same people who passed the “life unfit for living’ Bill and saw it as being humane?
Though I must also note it will quite possibly be illegal for me to make these comments in the near future (due to laws being passed not allowing such criticism of our illustrious leaders who are more popular than Bashar al Assad, but didn’t cheat in the elections. We have a one Party system with only 5 ‘opposition members’ [3 Greens, 2 ‘Republicans’] in the Lower House).
“I recently cited the UN definition of torture when i wrote to several parties about the Court ordered ECT of Charles Helmer.”
I wrote to my local Member and asked that they arrange to tear the Convention against the use of Torture up on the steps of Parliament for the media to report. At least that way the public would be aware of where they stand on the matter. All this finding ways of concealing acts of torture as ‘medicine’ is stupid really. They know we now have a police State and there can be no opposition to them, so why waste the time hiding it?
2016 the Police handed over responsibility for ‘domestic violence’ and ‘drug abuse and addictions’ over to ‘Mental Health Services’. These once ‘exclusions’ taken out of the Mental Health Act to enable this to occur (I feel sure that political beliefs have also been quietly overlooked and wouldn’t want to be a Scientologist in my State, or someone who dares to speak out against the ‘treatments’ being offered as ‘medicine’).
The ‘crisis’ which has been caused by mismanagement and corruption in our health system now being ‘blamed’ on ‘mental patients’ blocking up the Emergency Depts (good use of stigma by our Premier despite that lack of any evidence, and in fact his claim being contradicted by the facts).
Point being you want your ‘streets’ cleaned up, best it is someone other than the Police that do it. As my situation showed, they make great Uber drivers for mental health, but it is others who tend to have the stomach for what needs to be done.
I hope God has mercy on the poor souls who are going to be caught up in what is about to occur.
“I will gladly keep you informed, I am still gathering my thoughts and the details of how it plays out but I plan on allowing our community to be able to learn everything they can from my efforts.”
Wonderful, but don’t forget how dangerous this can actually be. “Trust in haste, regret at leisure”, “Suspicion breeds confidence”, and “Don’t suspect a friend, REPORT THEM” lol.
I note that Police have been given a place on the Board of our primary ‘critical psychiatry’ organisation. That ought to ensure that any Police ‘misconduct’ is known about before it makes the papers. With no copy of the Criminal Code in our Police stations, and the ability to “edit” legal narratives by retrieving documents and threatening witnesses and their families…… And lets be honest, where are they going to go with their complaints anyway? MiA?
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Wow. What a damaging article this is.
Look, I’m not denying or invalidating your experience. But this article is full of misinformation and just a complete lack of understanding on TMS.
What you experienced is not a result of TMS but simply a bad location.
For starters; if you have a bad mapping it can create issues instead of fix them. It can exacerbate anxiety and depression. A good doctor and tech knows this and will be able to catch on to this and remap.
Secondly, in the contract you sign there’s supposed to be a section that they strongly recommend wearing ear plugs BECAUSE the sound the TMS machine makes can damage hearing.
Thirdly, the fuzzy woozy feeling IS normal but it should not last any more than 2 weeks. If it lasts longer, then that is a sign that the mapping is wrong. Again, a properly educated doctor and tech should know this.
Fourthly, if the machine is not calibrated properly, it will cause harm.
Bottom line: it’s not TMS’s fault that caused all this. It’s bad psychiatrists who aren’t well informed and who ARE only in it for the money and improperly trained techs who aren’t doing their job right. I have experienced that towards the end of my own TMS treatment after my favorite techs and psychiatrist quit as a result of mismanagement and improper care and have since followed my psychiatrist elsewhere.
The facility you went to is a bad facility. Period.
But again, it is NOT TMS’s fault. I owe my very life to TMS. Without it I would have killed myself. Before TMS I had a suicide plan. I was ready to end it all. I had said if TMS doesn’t work then I’m out. TMS has revolutionized and changed my life completely. I feel reborn in a way.
I get that you’re angry but this article is very damaging to people who could really benefit from TMS. You can talk about what you experienced without making the assumption that it was directly TMS’s fault.
TMS IS low risk. *WHEN DONE PROPERLY*.
I’m sorry for your experience but please consider the damage your article is going to cause.
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class1 , Are you so sure it is not TMS fault? I will make some concessions here. TMS is relatively low risk, from what i have observed this is occurring in a small population, but that is a population. These side effects have been reported to the FDA and are public. They have been reported to the manufacturers and they have chose not to warn their techs and the public of the side effects reported.
To me it does seem efficacy rates are higher at better clinics, but does that excuse the damage done by a machine operated by others? When they are operating within compliance set down by the manufacturer? When they were trained by representatives of the manufacturer? Everything has a cost, everything, When i take a med that says it could result in death… well if i kick off, it was my responsibility, it was on my own hands. The disclosure provided to me before i did TMS did not tell me anything about having serious cognitive impairments two years after the procedure or any of the significant issues I have. I checked with the others as well, the folks i met with that had detached retinas and nerve pain… No disclosure for them… The woman who ended up on a ventilator with a pacemaker as well… no disclosure… I now have done my homework, I know whats happening, I have called the mother, the next morning, after a suicide attempt from someone i had been trying to help for months deal with the side effects of TMS, who was not suicidal before TMS. I could rattle off for hours.
Its possible you are right that the risk could be low under certain conditions, but it does not excuse the cost of the backs that are walked across to pave the way to a persons success. Especially when it was not disclosed to them and they did not have the chance to make an informed decision, even when the information was available to the manufacturer.
I have also spoken with those who have had massive turn arounds from TMS, defeated life ending depression. Outstanding, if your life is better, awesome! Seriously, however I wasn’t so lucky and I am not sure we should overlook the incredible suffering of others based on the even miraculous success of a few. When people ask me about TMS, it is simple, There is great success out there but the risks are not being disclosed. Here is what is possible, and its something they are not telling you. There was no fail safe on the machines, stopping the harm that was done to me, there was not training given to the techs to identify problems, i have talked to the techs from different clinics. Science does not know much of anything about how the brain works… So they know definitively that TMS does no harm to it? No way, not even close, the brain is an amazing thing, way beyond our own comprehension, we wont know the impacts of TMS on it for millennia. I’ve been to some of the best clinics in the country, in MY experience, the difference between them and a regular neurologist, is that they admit they got no clue on whats going on but they will give it a shot. Pretty subjective, but I will take the honesty any day. Someone who says they know unequivocally what TMS is doing to your brain is.. well I will let anyone reading fill in the blank.
Sorry, I cannot stand down and dishonor my own story or the story of those I have met in order to save the conscience of a few or any other for that matter. Time will tell if I am a wanker or not.
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class1quirk: and so – how do you suggest one sorts out the “legitimate” practitioners from the cowboys, wild west and snake oil cures?
Is this a job of the regulator – like FDA? AMA?
Or is it the job of the practitioner? If this is the case – how does a “consumer” (egads) choose the right practitioner?
If practitioner C gets excellent effects, but practitioners A and B have problems (or vice versa) – how are we to know? Where is the reporting on this?
If you have 3 auto mechanics, and 1 of them is always breaking things – well, that’s my car, and I can take it to a good mechanic to repair the damage done by the bad mechanic.
But my body – once you damage that – yes, it is a self healing amazing body, but – where do I take it to get it “fixed?”
The answer is: nowhere, you have to fix it yourself, and your mileage may vary.
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Thank you for sharing your story and educating us. I am sorry for your suffering. I also agree with JeffreyC in pointing out that cognitive injury from psychiatric drugs is also frequently severe, persistent and also unrecognized by the medical community, the sales people, and society at large (outside of the MIA audience).
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Thank you Dr Williams.
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Thanks Doc, spot on.
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James is not the norm.
I’ve seen 1000s of these done. I’ve done hundreds of sessions on myself personally. The effects are only temporary. Most people would LOVE for the effects to last longer.
Do you know how many lives big pharma has ruined? TMS is basically harmless and in most cases it actually works and works well.
Do your research. Your husband and son would most likely benefit from TMS, as would you. Just because you read one article on the internet does not make it true. Please google TMS research and you’ll see just how promising of a treatment it is. James has done a disservice to others with this article. His experience is not the norm. Not by a long shot.
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THANK you!
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NO. He has NOT done a disservice, in fact, even if you told me that one in a million has permanent uncomfortable symptoms, do I want to be that one? In the least, I WANT to hear all negative effects and not only hear the positives.
I heard positive crap about antidepressants too.
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Sam, what can i say, your a classy one, thank you. Id rather have the information and think for myself instead of rely on others to tell me something is safe… I have had plenty of Dr’s and techs talk to me about the reality of the treatments so they can improve and disclose everything to their patients, not dismiss something because they think maybe it wont happen to their patients.
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I had Tms treatment in 2019.
While I can’t say I experienced what op experienced I indeed believe I ended up w negative side effects.
First the treatment was not “painless” or just “uncomfortable”. The treatment actually hurt but I stuck w it because I trusted the doctor.
I have had intense nerve pain towards the end of my treatment.
I’m certain tms is responsible for this pain.
I joined the fb group you mentioned here. It is awful and I’m still struggling to find hell for the pain.
It affects every aspect of my life. And no tms did not provide any relief from my depression.
I do disagree w John Hoggett mental health is absolutely is a medical condition and deserves treatment.
But the brain is a simple but complicated thing.
If I had known this was a possibility I would never have done it.
I’m so much worse off now than before I had the treatment. I regret that I was so naive.
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It is your opinion that an experience is a medical condition. Perhaps it “deserves” physiotherapy, just as the medical people often recommend for the body. just changing the brain by drugging or TMS or what have you…throwing shit at a vulnerable part of the body, meaning the WHOLE body, is a BAD MEDICAL MOVE. It is NOT even scientific. It continues to be experimental, but really science gave up and continues with the same. And it is not okay to keep on doing what they found to be harmful in the majority of cases. Yes it harms the whole body. They warn you about prednisone use on body and brain, and so they should make it public knowledge that all “mental “treatments” can and usually cause multiple problems. And death, and suicides.
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Acjones,
I am glad you have been able to get your way into the group. Hopefully you are finding additional answers there.
You bring up a very important topic of nerve pain. The more time goes on the more we see reports of new and worsening nerve pain after TMS treatment, not subtle but severe. I developed severe lower back pain 3 months after TMS, which i have never had in my life, and it developed right in the window for onset of delayed electrical injury. At first i thought it did not seem to fit well but sure enough i found studies showing lower back pain was linked to electrical injury. The current that is generated by TMS can travel the entire CNS in nano seconds and it can wreak havoc virtually anywhere in the body. We have seen it quite a bit now. I am sorry to hear that is how it has manifested for you.
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Thank you for your post, and thanks to James Hall for sharing his experience and starting this thread. I have suffered from depression most of my life, though of varying severity. I have been lucky that drugs generally help,but side effects have me searching for a better answer. TMS sounded great! I had my mapping session a day and a half ago. I experienced serious discomfort during the initial mapping – a lot worse than mild tapping or tingling, but nothing I couldn’t take. After all, it’s supposed to improve after a bit, right? Then they gave me a 4 second burst. The treatment protocol I was supposed to get consists of 4 seconds on,10 seconds of rest for 18 minutes,5
5 days a week. Well, as they initiated that first pulse, I felt as though I was simultaneously being shocked and stabbed in the head. I have a high pain tolerance usually, but I couldn’t stay still for the 4 seconds. I writhed and slid myself down ,out of reach of the treatment head. After I caught my breath,they told me they could try adjusting the angle. I was game to try – I have had MRI s on several occasions with no problem at all. 2 more attempts at different focal points just changed and increased the area of agony. Each time I had to squirm out of range well before the pulse was completed. The Dr., Tech, and I all decided to stop. The Dr. said he will do some research and talk to the company that makes the machine, and hopefully have a solution and reschedule me for next week. I felt fine at the time and drove home, feeling depressed that the great opportunity to treat without drugs might not work. About 2 hours afterwards I developed a mild headache, which did not surprise me as I had been warned that might be a side effect. Aspirin took care of it, and I thought that was the end of it. However, the mild headache returned and 36 hours later I still have it. I don’t feel too bad, but I don’t feel right. It reminds of how I felt recovering from a concussion. When I touch my scalp over the area that was stimulated, I feel surprised that it isn’t bruised. I keep feeling this way. So I started doing more research about painful side effects, and I found this forum.
When first considering TMS, I only found mild side effects mentioned. Until I knew to add “pain” and “damage” to my search I had no clue anything bad could happen other than a very low chance of a seizure. Needless to say, I will not be rescheduling, although I will be having a serious talk with the Dr. about reporting this, and warning people about more possible effects than on the consent form. Thank you all for sharing your stories. I am sure it is a great help to some people but I am pretty sure it is not for me. My first thought afterwards was “I can’t do this!”. Then I started trying to talk myself into giving it more of a chance. Your posts have convinced me that at least some people are hurt rather than helped, and that if I continue I am likely to be one of them. I will trust my instincts.
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Barb,
Thanks for sharing your experience. That is very interesting and I find the way you described your experience very helpful.
The FDA has an area on its website to report side effects and harm for medical devices if you want to report it there. Every report helps us gain traction on understanding this.
I am sorry you had to go through that and I hope you are feeling much better quickly!
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It disturbs me that TMS is even allowed. States of mind, no matter how painful, are not medical problems. Therefore medical treatments are not justified.
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Magnetic fields used in TMS are weaker than an MRI machine by orders of magnitude. I don’t recall reading anywhere that MRIs damaged anyone’s brain.
If you look at the science and research studies it’s physically impossible for TMS to damage the brain as practiced. Any physicist or scientist in the field could tell you that.
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🙂
Although, then if it’s basically harmless and changes nothing in the brain, probably pointless then. Perhaps it changes exactly what it is designed to, right?
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@Sam; You didn’t read their comment right. Jj specifically said “damages”. “Damages” and “changes” are completely different words. TMS does change the brain in that it clears the way for new neuropathways to form that allow you feel better. The science of TMS was completely left out in this article and it’s very disappointing.
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I was talking about unwanted, undesired changes, changes that cause distress, instead of lifting distress.
Words like “neuropathways” mean nothing as far as the complicated pathways of the brain.
There are no experts as far as the brain is concerned. We should then be able to show clients their “new neuropathways”, and how the TMS touched no parts of their billion neurons, synapses etc etc, that are involved in areas not at all related to “depression”.
Instead if one has a complaint, they shrug their shoulders or deny the effects, effects which are scrambled and might or might not result in some positive effects.
I’m surprised that TMS has figured the brain out. Never knew it was that simple.
I went to someone years ago that practices neurofeedback and has good results. I started to experience uncontrolled tics in my upper lip and knew immediately that it was a cause. I then had to decide if I wanted to keep trying and hope the tics were not going to wind up being much worse than the tics, or perhaps go away, or just stop and not risk.
I stopped.
What if someone develops a condition years later, we know so little, that we do not know if related to treatments.
It is this unknowable that people are presenting as knowable, as being known with words like mapping, neuropathways. synapses……
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“What if someone develops a condition years later, we know so little, that we do not know if related to treatments.”
This is not necessarily a bad thing Sam. It might actually be one of our “unstated aims” and “intended consequences”, while we deny any motive and claim an ‘unintended negative outcome’.
Confusion over causality is the poisoners best friend. Consider the effects of a few too many rads from an x ray machine?
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Sam, you make an excellent point and something i have struggled to understand… when you cannot point out the new neuropathways or exactly what happened… How can you help a hurt patient? How can you validate the efficacy of the treatment? I talked to an Oxford TMS researcher looking to diagnostically show TMS results and I got nowhere. She could not point me to any tool that could definitively show what TMS does to the brain. We arent there yet.
Boans –
Interestingly enough, i have found Causality and Correlation are some of the most profoundly confused evidences , such a grey area…
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I think that’s the point here. Some people may find it helpful, some may find it harmful, some may find it does nothing. But the practitioners don’t know what, if anything, is being “treated” nor what “improvement” means. If you don’t know what the problem is, you’re just shooting craps claiming to have a “solution.”
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You can’t clear pathways in the brain, only damage them.
Brains change all the time. Any teacher will tell you that. New pathways ate created as a person learns something new. Teachers do not use electricity to help people have space in there brain to learn more maths.
If you have been told tms clears pathways in the brain you have been lied to. It probably works on a placebo effect at the most.
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Excuse me – but I refuse to go to a practitioner to “change my brain.”
There are so many things I can do to change my own brain. Sunlight. Diet, exercise.
Daily walks, seeing the horizon, listening to music, meditation, qigong, yoga – all of these I am in complete control of.
When I get in your chair (I assume you, @class1quirk, are also a practitioner, like jjnoles) – that choice is taken away from me, and I am at the mercy of the practitioner.
No, thank you. And thank you James Hall for pointing out these risks.
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James, I am so sorry to hear about your experience. For me, TMS was a blessing. It gave me ‘head space’ to figure out what to do and to get to work resolving the issues that surrounded my depression. I have had none of the ill side effects you describe. My mind is clear and one year post-treatment I am happy, have been off my medications for over 8 months and very stable. I hope you find help and again, I am so sorry to hear of your negative experience with TMS.
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Thanks John, I am so glad your one of the ones that have gotten real help from it. When I went in, I really believed that might be me. I was lucky enough to meet others that have really benefited as well. I really want to find out what the difference is and why the outcomes are so drastic in some cases. The brain is so complex and amazing its hard to think we may find out in this lifetime.
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I spent some time looking at different treatments and discussing the TMS treatment with people I knew and bothering people I did not know. One fellow told me that the MRI of a person who has normal brain activity is like looking at NYC at midnight from an airplane. Lots of electrical activity and brightness, lights pulsing and energy moving about. In a depressed person it is like looking at Omaha at 3 am from the same airplane. The objective of the TMS treatment is to get the patient’s brain activity as close to NYC as possible knowing, it will not be perfect. I liked that and it helped me manage my expectations.
A neurologist that I was introduced to was dubious of the treatment yet, a biomedical engineer was less so. Still, the best conversation, which relates to your issue, was from an MRI tech. She said that effective treatment comes down to proper mapping, proper operator training, proper operator and program supervision and a good tech who is running the treatments. I agree. If the mapping is not done correctly by the MD psychiatrist, then the treatment is not accurate from the beginning. If the technician is not properly trained and does not adhere to formal SOPs, the treatment, no matter how accurately mapped, will be ineffective or in your case, dangerous. As well, they need to be properly supervised and monitored.
I was a reactor technician way back when. We had formal training, testing, qualifications, SOPS and intense supervision. If anyone was lackadaisical, they were not successful nor were they allowed to operate the controls.
All said, it seems to me that you were, perhaps, exposed to a program that was not properly run. I am not certain of long term effects as the TMS has a short term (year vs lifetime) effect. I do hope you are able to find someone skilled and educated in neurology who can help you diagnose and treat the deficits you are experiencing.
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Thank you John, I can agree with your perspective. I battle with it a little internally. The supervision and oversight was there but I am not sure the manufacturer is training folks up correctly. I have seen vastly different SOPs at different clinics and i think efficacy is better where it is taken more seriously but as for the negative side effects, maybe a good clinician would have stopped sooner but I think damage maybe done to a certain population regardless.
Thank you very much for your thoughts, still looking for something or someone to help.
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This reads like junk science to me. States of mind do not correlate to brain areas. You cannot map out which ares need attention and which are ok.
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Exactly Steve, and boans
One of my favorite words “science” in quotes.
It’s sad that “science” refuses to come with humility, and truth.
They rely on one thing, people’s inability to “reason”, to think.
Psychiatry discourages thinking lol
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You most likely had a bad TMS doc James. If they over stimulated in the right area I could see the effects coming out like they did for you. Not only that they used a Neurostar on you. Those machines are famously outdated. Everyone tech in the field knows that.
A good TMS doc will not have a Neurostar and they would use precise positioning.
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JJ,
You may be right, the evidence I have seen points to it or at least the likelihood of it. I appreciate your opinion about it. I have learned quite a bit from your commentary. Sucks to be me, but I am really happy for the people who are getting good treatment and benefits. I suppose I wish most that i could have accepted the side effects when i consented to the treatment.
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Dear James,
Thank you for sharing your experience publicly.
Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) has been hailed by some in Tasmania, Australia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-11/magnetic-depression-treatment-turning-lives-around/10337174
It’s thus good to see dissenting voices like yours, raising concerns openly, cautioning the acceptance of another psychiatric intervention like TMS, which for some (or all who claim it helps them), might actually be no more than a placebo?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29111404
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.00210/full
Best, Magdalene
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My pleasure sharing Magdalene,
Your absolutely right, I think there should be much more healthy objection and experience sharing out there.
Additionally, I have seen quite a few studies showing little to no efficacy as well. Maybe not surprisingly, they were also the only studies I could find where there was no bias or payroll from a manufacturer. The large majority of people I have talked to had predominantly, no benefit at all. A handful have benefited and quite a few I have seen hurt. Here is another trial which I was shown recently, not impressive. I certainly do not think it is fair, as in the first article you have posted, that we show the few positives, without the contrasting risks and negative experiences? I would call that no more than salesmanship, either for a product or for your media source. Disturbing to me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30917990
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Hi James,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with TMS.
I am a practicing MFT in California and I belong to the local branch of our professional association. Through our local list serve I was made aware of a company that is looking to get established in our area to provide clients/patients with “data-driven” procedures such as TMS and ECT. Here’s their ad:
From: Gotham Enterprises
Date: Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 8:02 PM
Subject: MFT Position in Berkeley, CA
“I would like to invite you to apply for an urgent permanent full time California Licensed MFT psychotherapist position for a Psychiatry & Behavioral Health outpatient office located in the FiDI and Sunset District of San Francisco, CA. We also have openings in Berkeley, CA, Daly City, CA, Oakland, CA and San Jose, CA. You can work at either office.
We are looking for a psychotherapist to provide direct one on one patient care with patients suffering from Depression, Anxiety, ADHD, and OCD. Our patients are mostly college students ages 18 to 30 yrs old. Our Client’s practices are located near Universities.
We are a personalized medicine startup working to improve mental health care.
The office is currently doing telepsych temporarily due to the COVID19 pandemic but will return back to outpatient after the shutdown is over.
We are working to make mental health care data-driven, personalized, and technologically advanced. By leveraging our current technology of pharmacogenetic testing, next-generation clinical decision support software and analytics framework, wearables, electronic patient outcome monitoring, digital health applications, and our engineering team, we believe this will enable us to drastically improve the standard of mental health care.
As we grow, our engineering team will add AI-driven chat-bots, optimize psychotherapy, train machine learning models, and build mental health assessment software. Longer term, we are working on integrating whole exome sequencing, electroencephalography (EEG), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), brain scans, and much more to our clinic.
Compensation: $104K-$108K salary per year plus health insurance PTO/paid sick; 401k equivalent; Malpractice insurance; In-office perks;
Schedule: 32-40 hours per week You can work M to TH 9-6 pm or M to F 9-6 p.m.
Objective of Position: Work full time as a Psychotherapist to provide direct patient care to patients one on one
Responsibilities:
Treat patients one on one using CBT and DBT modalities
Create comprehensive patient assessments
Aid in treatment planning
Complete documentation in compliance with clinical and state requirements
Aid in building a physician referral network to attract new patients
Work directly with bioengineers and software engineers to create technology to improve therapy patient outcomes.”
Looks like an abomination to me.
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Definitely looks more than a bit scary to me!
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I certainly agree with the abomination bit. I worked in data and analytics for years in business. To think about that in a clinical setting is upsetting. We are people and need individualized treatment and consideration, everyone is a completely different being, most of which is not scientifically mapped. I am seeing this recurring theme of discarding human beings because they don’t fit the mold, the data, or the research. If you cant treat a human individually you should not be practicing anything regarding people. I am seeing a tremendous amount of oversimplification as well. That is an answer for a business model and income not treatment of another person. I have also seen incredibly lax hiring practices. Most hires in these newer clinics aren’t even vetted and contacts are not even called or interviewed. So there is no check and balance or accountability for that community, anyone could come in fill the spot, wreak havoc in the community and leave.
I think you have brought up an important aspect of the problem.
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“mapping” is just too embarrassing for most people to even talk about. It’s so sad that we have people that “advertise” this garbage.
That ad reads like something from 1954.
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Dear James
Sorry to read this ,my advice:
1) Tinnitus is horrible magnesium supplement seems to help but high dose oil thru foot bath daily and acupuncture if u can find a good practitioner
2) don’t waste time and money with lawyers they are all a short Anglo Saxon word that begins with c
3)if you are on any other medication at all check for ototoxicity in the side effects list
4) funny how the TMS promoters appeared by magic on this site having never posted before and will probably never post again obviously site and you both tagged and tracked by the industry
5) Boans i’m in Perth if you want to meet up for a socially distanced exchange of Horror stories let me know I ‘ll send you my e mail
James hoping things will improve and you have plenty of support
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Hi madmother13,
that’d be nice. Perhaps once were back to relative normality? It’s been tough on us rabbits this social distancing thing lol. Not being allowed to Mix a ma toesis 🙂
Seriously though let me know your email (via Steve or some other method) and I will be in touch.
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MadMother13,
Thank you so much for the helpful advice. It always brings me hope to find some simple things to try and help me out. I am learning the lesson with Lawyers, I cant say I have found anything contrary yet accept just a few, when i have spoken to so many. And, the adds are relentless some places, exploiting vets, MLK, and many others to try and get people in.
Thank you so much for the support.
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I have been diagnosed with depression, OCD, generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder and borderline personality disorder since I was a young teenager. I’m 52 years old now and have been on every SSRI, SSNI, and a combination of antidepressants including tricyclics. None of those drugs helped alleviate my psychiatric ailments. The SSRI’s were hands down the worst affording me a bevy of negative side effects. I have been seeing psychiatrists on and off since I was 21 years old. I was the first generation of psych. patients to be introduced to Prozac in 1990. Prozac was very effective in making me feel more depressed and peaked my OCD symptoms, anxiety, and allowed me to gain 20 pounds in two years time. It made me sweat profusely and I felt I was in a constant state of anxious malaise. Yet my first psychiatrist kept telling me that I needed to give the drug more time to adjust to (wasn’t two years enough adjust time?) and he eventually upped the dosage to 80MG’s. I ended up in the ER because I threatened I was planning my suicide to a family member. That was far from the end of my long walk in my mind’s dark alley. Fast forwarding from the 80’s, 90’s and into the 2000’s, psychiatrist after psychiatrist, and singing the same song about wanting me to try another SSRI…… Am I a glutton for punishment or just too stupid to realize that after 30 years of dealing with mental health practioners and not seeing any illumination in my mind’s pitch black alley, that I’d keep thinking, “Well maybe I just didn’t find the right doctor”. I decided I’d give another psychiatrist another chance because my depression was festering like a sabacous cyst ready to rupture. I was very close to acting out committing suicide. My sister found this “highly regarded, highly esteemed” psychiatrist for me to see. I’m thankful for my sister caring enough to try and help me through my knee deep problems, but this psychiatrist I went to see for only three sessions was a joke. He didn’t accept any insurance and charged $425.00 per session! This doctor wanted to immediately start me on Cymbalta and Zyprexa. Two SSRI’s!! I had explained my medical history to him the first consultation. I told this doc how intolerant to SSRI’s I am and that I had been on the two drugs in the past. No good. He then looks at me sternly and exclaims that, “you’re medication resistant and I’m recommending that you seek ECT”. WTF? Shock treatments!! I thought, what kind of idiocy is this? That is the end of the line for me and psychiatrists. Well, here I am 52 years old, having lived 40% of my life feeling like a piece of matter floating in a toilet bowl, spending thousands of dollars on doctors and medications that DID NOTHING for me, and what is it all for? Sure some people may benefit from drugs and psychotherapy but what about the lengthy list of patients who’re dumped on the side of the road because their docs just don’t care enough to go the extra mile for them. People who coo and get all warm and tingly about the “miracles” of modern medicine obviously haven’t taken an extremely bitter and bank breaking spoonful of everyday psychiatry.
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Zergendoff,
Sorry to hear it, I cant say that mine has been any different. I do wish I had learned your lesson before this experience. Accountability is a massive issue here and maybe one of the most importance. No one is verifying the quality of care and fairness of treatment when the bill is paid? Why would we pay for a medication that doesn’t work? Why would we pay a Dr. that doesn’t help? I think the answers can very widely but it comes back to where and how we are spending our resources. Why would we spend time and effort on things that don’t work, hurt people and makes peoples lives harder? My thought here may be because we are afraid to address the mental health problem as one being generated by economic demands and lack of community. Pay Dr.s regardless of efficacy to treat diseases generated by social imbalances because we are too afraid to address them, or too afraid to question those in power, monetarily or otherwise on why we are driven past reason to comply with societal norms, ie working 9-5 or much longer in many cases and for massive corporations with no conscious. There are a million and one ways to address the problem without spending a cent and they don’t include perpetuating psychiatry, big pharma or bs studies to promote marketing.
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James, I was really saddened to read of your bad experiences with this treatment. My dad and younger brother, Eric, both had problems with depression and anxiety (possibly bipolar?) Later, they developed paranoid schizophrenia – dad was treated with ECT which definitely helped him. He returned to work. Eric had had himself sectioned: by then he’d been using heroin/methadone for 31 years….. So, he was given some kind of sedative (injected) every fortnight, and lost his short-term memory.
I started going down the same path in my mid 50s, not helped by the alcohol I drank. I was very – and am very – suspicious of any medication, because even mild anti-Ds make me feel ‘whoo whoo’, as though I’m floating around the room. Don’t need that! Nor did I want to be sectioned when I felt particularly ill and vulnerable. One good thing I did 5 years ago was to quit drinking completely, and my depression and anxiety is definitely better without it!
I found Open Dialogue mental health therapy in the UK and it helped me piece me back together again. Took 2 years, but it was worth it: I now understand how childhood dysfunction (my dad’s mental state) had affected me and all the family.
I suffer from tinnitus and vertigo. It’s genetic – another sister has it. I’ll try the magnesium. It doesn’t bother me that much, I live with it, my hearing’s good and brain is OK. I do hope you get to the bottom of the damage this treatment caused you: i.e. which part of the brain was affected. Wishing you peace and days when the anxiety lessens……
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Thank you so much for your kind words and the story Annette.
I am sorry about the ECT(scary) and your sons story and memory loss, before my experience I did not fully understand how the loss of my memory would effect every aspect of my life and create frustration and irritability. I am developing coping skills but everything is different. I have to change my personality and the way i handle things to get along. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing.
I can identify with the cessation of certain things to help get over the barriers. I recently stopped all the junk food i used to enjoy. It was so much harder than i thought but it has helped with good feelings and energy, which helps other cognitive deficits. hahahah, for a moment i did not understand the Whoo Whoo comment, but i thought back to my psych med experiences and it became very clear to me what you were speaking of. I had the same reaction, i tried quite a few and they all made me dopey, very punishing. I am using therapy, healthy eating and exercise to try and beat whats left of my own unpleasantness. I hope to find the peace your wishing me! Thank you so much.
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@james hall
Sorry I don’t remember reading that you took medication. But if you did, did you start to wean off of it before starting TMS? As a sufferer of Tinnitus this crap truly sucks and affects our lives daily. I am part of an Internet forum called tinnitus talk and it’s to help us cope with the daily ring. I also want to start TMS therapy in order to get my old self back that I lost two years ago out of nowhere. I am damaged and I feel this is the last resort after my three medications did not work.
Do know that once you get tinnitus a significant amount of people have it lowered or go away by six months. After six months tinnitus is considered chronic, but there have been people who got it and beat it two years later. Anti depressant medication can cause people to get tinnitus especially Wellbutrin. Medication induced tinnitus has a way higher likelihood of going away permanently then someone who got it noise induced (like me). In fact one of the many reasons I have not tried more medications is because of the fear of my tinnitus getting worse. It scares the crap out of me and if it ever goes back to that high volume i had before I will not deal with it. Suicide will definitely be an option. Please do not give up hope and I wish you quiet days ahead.
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Sincere apologies for the late reply!
I was off medications at the time I tried TMS. I had tried at least 7 or 8 different medications before i attempted TMS. I did not yet understand that psychiatric medications have nothing to do with treating mental illnesses, simply just effect the brain as to distract you from your issues.
That is interesting, my Dr had me try wellbutrin after TMS and it made things so much worse but i cant recall an impact on tinnitus. Thank you so much for that information.
I have spoken to quite a few people now, who think they are out of options. Some considering ECT or TMS because nothing else has worked. The really unpleasant truth that we have to ask ourselves is, how bad is our problem? I would gladly trade back my old problems for what i experience now and even those who have had very severe cases and did TMS have ended up even worse which is hard to imagine, and yet we manage to encounter it as a reality. For me and alot of others i think we need to critically examine whats causing our true problems and do everything we can to reduce the issue organically. Then from there, there are alot of alternatives to traditional psychiatric treatments. I would rather abandon everything I own than consider another psychiatric treatment at this point. I know that sounds radical but its just a fact. I think there are alot of options out there besides psychiatry that can be very effective!
Thank you so much for the kind words, i sincerely hope you find quiet, healing and hope ahead as well.
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James, thank you so much for sharing your experience. This was well written and I really appreciated the authenticity in your article. As expected, there will be some who wish to lessen or even deny your experience. It is 100% evident to me after reading to your story that TMS has caused you great harm and you were never warned by doctors that this could happen to you. The marketing of this treatment as “safe and effective” is quite troubling, and my hope is that the real truth will be heard by medical professionals and the public. Individuals considering TMS should read stories such as yours before making an informed decision. Your story could save someone from irrevocable harm. Well done, James!
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Thank you so much for taking the time to read it Dr. Yesha!
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James, thank you SO much for sharing your TMS experience. I am so grateful I was able to find this. I started TMS last week, and the past few days I have been experiencing noticeable mental slowness and short-term memory problems. I am someone who is very quick and can multi-task effortlessly, but I find myself very slowed down and unable to focus on more than one thing at a time without forgetting what I was doing. Even writing this is difficult because I keep losing my train of thought. I can’t tell you how comforting but scary it was to read your article and have all of the symptoms (exclufing the tinnitus) be so spot on with what I have been experiencing the past few days after only a few TMS treatments. I went in for my 6th treatment appointment this afternoon and immediately told the TMS tech what was going on. She said that she had never heard a patient complain of these types of symptoms before, and she immediately called the doctor in. As soon as I described what I’ve been experiencing, he said we should probably stop with the treatments. I was so relieved that I didn’t have to fight or argue my case. I’m so sorry for the way that you were REPEATEDLY dismissed, James. Told over and over that it was just lightheadedness and that it was normal and temporary. I’m grateful that the tech and doctor I was working with didn’t even hesitate to discontinue the TMS treatment, even though what I was telling them was “a first,” as they stated.
I am genuinely concerned that just those 5 treatments may have done permanent cognitive damage. But James, I am so grateful for your honesty and for taking the time to share your experience publicly. I know that our experience is apparently incredibly rare, and I in no way intend to speak 100% negatively about TMS. I just wish that these “rare experiences” were accounted for and that others could be made aware of ALL the potential risks, no matter how unlikely they are. I truly cannot thank you enough, you helped me in making the decision to discontinue treatment early on before even more damage could be done. You’re a lifesaver.
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natastical,
Thank you so much for the kind words. I felt driven to speak about my experience for this exact reason. To help those that experience it make informed decisions.
I am particularly happy that you had a staff that was dialed into your situation and stopped quickly. Also, you should be thanking yourself for being in tuned with your body and knowing something was wrong. I think many patients experience Anosognosia, and are unaware that they are losing cognition during the treatment. This is a frightening prospect.
I hope you make a full and speedy recovery. If you think you have suffered any kind of lasting damage please feel free to reach out through the VTAG facebook group or on here. We have come quite a long way in discovering what has happened to us
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Hi James,
Thank you for sharing your experience here. I recently completed 36 iTBS treatments with the MagVenture MagVita. It didn’t do much for me. I’ve decided to pursue ECT treatment instead. I have nothing to lose at this point.
Like you, I had intense bouts of confusion and derealization throughout my treatment. On one occasion, I stumbled out of the clinic and vomited. There’s no way I could’ve drove home. Fortunately, these side effects eventually subsided.
The FDA needs to investigate adverse reactions and possible side effects further. TMS technicians should also be held to higher scrutiny. In my experience, the technicians were grossly unprofessional (even violating HIPAA). Frankly, I had no idea that most TMS technicians had so little experience in the healthcare industry. I assumed most of them were PAs or RNs. I feel like a fool.
Slacker
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I am very sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience! Apparently, you are not alone. However, I would not necessarily agree that you have nothing to lose by trying “ECT.” There are many people who have described horrific “side effects” of ECT, especially loss of memories, including the good as well as the bad. I strongly suggest you read up carefully and read some stories from people who have tried it out. I’ve never actually met someone where it “worked” for more than a very short period of time, and I’ve met a good number where it did essentially nothing or where they deeply regretted the damage it did to their brains. I don’t want you to feel like a fool yet again!
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Slacker
Many people who are going to be subject to ECT are not well enough to read MiA let alone drive. You’re able to drive, read MiA and write three very good informative paragraphs. It could get very much worse with a course of ECT. Have you been subject to psych drugs if so may I ask what was your experience?
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Slacker,
1. I love the handle.
2. Thanks for the comments. I am very glad your side effects subsided. I am still dealing with the full force of mine. Your absolutely right about the technicians. There are literally no qualifications to be a Tech and the only training they get are from manufacturer staff, of which my techs told me they were trained to disregard patient complaints. It is really hard to believe that such a serious procedure has little to no regulation.
As for for the ECT my friend, I have to agree with Steve and ask a favor, that you would consider it more carefully. You see, what I have found is that there is very little difference between ECT and TMS. I actually suspect TMS causes electrical injury just like ECT. This could possibly make an ECT venture even more dangerous for you as repeated electrical exposure sensitizes the body to it and makes damage more likely. ECT is actually really poorly regulated as well and procedures can be vastly different as there is no regulated standard measure for how ECT is carried out. Also, Both of them have less than impressive efficacy and relapse rates.
The only reason I know this is because I was able to meet up with Sarah Hancock and look at her research and get some things figured out. I would urge you to take a look at her page and article here on MiA before you make up your mind. She is a phenomenally kind and brilliant person.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/07/finger-pulse-shock-treatment-controversy/
https://www.psychrecoveryandrehab.com/
Please feel free to reach out to me or join our Facebook group as well.
We are both just slackers trying to make it out there, best of luck.
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Hi James,
Thought that I would post an update. Out of desperation, I opted for ECT treatment anyway. In hindsight, I think I took your words for granted. You see, I am much younger and less wise than you are. Like most people my age, I am the living embodiment of “young and dumb”. I was not warned of any long-term side effects by my doctor. I assumed that people with long-term cognitive impairment from ECT were in the minority.
Since then, I’ve been dealing with memory loss and PTSD from my treatment. During one of my ECT treatments, I briefly experienced what’s called anesthesia awareness. I do not remember being shocked, but I was paralyzed for a few minutes. This experience, however, was not what motivated me to cease treatment. I figured that it would help eventually, so I continued to follow my doctor’s orders.
Later into my treatment course, I saw a boy in the ECT preop room. He couldn’t have been any older than twelve or fourteen. The nurses were trying to comfort him. He looked back at me while he was being rolled into the ECT suite. The look on his face had a profound affect on me. I had no idea that children were still subjected to ECT until I saw it for myself. I wish that I had said something.
On another occasion, the preop nurse assigned to me tried to make me take Ativan. She claimed that I became aggressive after one of my treatments. I told her that I had no idea what she was talking about. I refused to take it until I got an explanation from my doctor. The nurse continued to argue with me until another nurse intervened. The other nurse explained that there was a mix up. The Ativan was meant for a different patient. G-d bless that nurse.
Although I regret undergoing ECT, it helped me realize how grossly negligent HCPs can be – particularly in the psych field. I’ve filed complaints with the hospital and my state department of health, but nothing has been done. There are very few organizations that advocate on behalf of people like us. Despite mental health advocates’ effort to end the stigma, our post-treatment struggles are discredited on the basis of being mentally ill. If anything, I think these efforts have been used to further discredit our experiences.
Slacker
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Slacker – wow, I cant thank you enough for coming back and giving an update. It takes an incredible amount of integrity to do that, I deeply appreciate it.
The first thing that jumps out to me, is your statement about being young and dumb or less wise than myself – you gotta cut yourself some slack, slacker. You were not warned about the long term effects and you did what your Dr’s advised you, you fell for the same trick I did with TMS, that just makes you human, your in an incredibly hard spot and to me it sounds like you made the best decision you could. I have to say, i am pretty convinced that you are smarter than me, you at least were on here looking up side effects, when my brain got fried, I didnt even know what MiA was or how to find adverse effects by going to the right places online, so I think your not giving yourself enough credit. And – lol – you filed complaints with all the right agencies, thats brilliant I didnt figure that out for over a year after my treatment, and at any younger age and experience level, i doubt it would have ever occured.
Also, the burden, shame and guilt lands squarely on the physicians that execute these treatments. They are extremely well trained professionals that know exactly what they are doing, how and why. You should place no negativity on yourself, but i realize you may, just like i have and just like everyone else i have spoken to about their TMS injury. Even when someone was perfectly duped with no hope to turn away, they will blame themselves, maybe strictly because at the end of the day we are the ones left holding the bad – The physicians flee and deny all responsibility as histories greatest cowards. I have learned to let go of the self blame, i hope you can too, your way to Rad not to.
This ECT game is really sick, it essentially goes against the UN convention against torture. i have to admit the harrowing details you shared with me have not left my mind for any of my waking hours, since i read your post. In what space is it possible we are torturing our children with this treatment!? There is no way, there is no chance in Hell, that child has any idea of what he is/was going to happen to him. Furthermore there is no circumstance that could justify that procedure and certainly not at his age. Words do not do justice to the depths of this atrocity against the human body.
I am deeply sorry to hear you are having Memory loss and PTSD, coincidentally, i dont talk about it much, but i developed PTSD as well from TMS, it is my thought that it is a physiological PTSD as certain stimuli cause complete panic in me, and i think I am being overstimulated by my environment or stress and my brain can no longer physically pass these significant signals in its current state. I hope these prove to be temporary for you, I have heard from some folks that have undergone smaller amounts of ECT, that some of it comes back.
There is this looking glass effect that I keep seeing. People who have not experienced significant injury from a medical or psychiatric procedure look at and explore the testimony of people who have been hurt and they just cant comprehend it. They go ahead with the treatment anyways, and they haven’t fully grasped the experiential depth of having a seriously damaged body or nervous system. In all fairness it takes a very powerful imagination to be able to get it. Its like the inability to understand is a magnet and it pulls certain people through, it begs to introduce them to a new reality. Its very odd to me, but i see it quite frequently and I do not think you are one of those folks at all, it was just a curiosity I thought i would share given the context of this conversation.
That being said, once your on the other side of the looking glass no matter how you got here, you are now apart of a companionship of those who have had their eyes opened. There is no more possibility for you of the existence of a perfect or honest psychiatry or HCP. You have lived experience that tells you the real story. All of us on this side salvage what we can of our lives and then decide if we embrace the truth shown to us or not. Before my injury i was a corporate wanker, like an extreme corporate dude, everything revolved around my job and what i needed to accomplish. The rest of the world, really did not even exist, just my corner of it. Now, however I cannot lie to myself anymore and say everything is OK out there. There is a very large world out there and things are going very very wrong. Its a bit of a Blue Pill, Red Pill thing. I am extremely disturbed and upset about what happened to you and what you saw. In a kind of sick and twisted way though, I am thankful one more persons eyes were opened.
As a closing thought – How problematic is our existence as a society if the only way we learn something is harmful is by making a large amount of people experience it? I find this whole process so incredibly reckless, every day i am baffled by it.
I hope you are as well as you can be. If you need any resources on ECT or ways to rehab Sarah has a great site and I am always glad to look into anything i can as well.
https://www.psychrecoveryandrehab.com/
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If a person wants to undergo shocks, that’s up to him. The problem isn’t the ECT in and of itself. It’s getting into the world of psychiatry. It’s these “I have nothing to lose” moments that are dangerous. In such moments, a person would be so intent on reducing their suffering that they become short-sighted and can’t see future consequences.
I hope you get better Slacker. I hope it works for you, like some people say it did for them, while it destroyed others’ lives.
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“If a person wants to undergo shocks, that’s up to him.”
Not where I live it isn’t. It’s up to the doctor who has managed to hijack your right to consent (and who turns a tidy few dollars for that hijacking). And it’s mainly “her” where I live.
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True. That’s why I said, it isn’t the ECT in and of itself, but the power of people who have done MD degrees in psychiatry and their proponents.
In other words, it’s NOT up to him or her, and therein lies the danger.
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Decisions about care is a very tricky subject.
Like Boans said, there are times when your right to consent is waived and you are incarcerated or a doctor is appointed to make decisions for you and they can destroy your brain with ECT or any other means whether you object or not. This is a human rights violation and is inexcusable in any context.
Then there is the more subtle problem of patient consent. First of all consent, even with ECT is not properly informed, just like with TMS, I believe they still do not inform you about the reality of the possible outcomes, for instance, with TMS they tell you its possible you could have a seizure or a headache during treatment and thats the full extent of the risk. Which is a complete farce and they have direct knowledge it is, as it has been reported to the FDA and i am certain it was revealed in trials, but not documented, as well. So even though i signed the document that I was aware of the side effects of treatment, it was not real consent. So this situation is a problem, its illegal and fraudulent and happens every day. The next is subtler still and it is the off label prescriptions and the deception performed by doctors themselves, when they tell you a treatment is fine, and you will be fine, and its ok to use rtms for IBS even though it is not indicated for it because he read an article that it could work, or when a doctor prescribes TMS for addiction and plays up the patients depression and says they are depressed when their not in order to try and treat addiction with TMS.
In all these scenarios the patient is not given a fair chance to make a full and completely informed decision for themselves and this is how peoples lives change for the worse, this is how lives some to a functional end. Not to mention the weakened state and circumstances mental health patients see doctors and psychiatrists in. Instead of getting additional scrutiny because of the sensitive nature of the situation, most often they are given less because the patient loses cogency during treatment and this makes the patient easier to control and deal with for the physician.
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“So this situation is a problem, its illegal and fraudulent and happens every day.”
Think it may go as far as being a breach of the “Guidelines for Informed Consent” which, like the ‘Sanity Clause’ sketch by the Marx Bros results in doctor always winning. “Ah c’mon, everybody knows their ain’t no Sanity Clause’ (civil not criminal action)
I can’t find the actual guidelines at present, but basically the last line is the key to the whole document. It all sounds great….. in theory. But the fact is it is designed to ensure that there is basically zero accountability. I mean, imagine, we have passed a Euthanasia Act here which is a total contradiction in terms of ‘informed consent’. The Catch 22 of you have to be crazy to want to die, but in order to die you can’t be crazy.
Consider, your right to consent can thus be removed because you ‘lack insight’, and then the person who now has the right to consent for you can also snuff you. Doctors not crazy and he just decided you need some assistance to die. Save the taxpayer and insurance companies some money, that’s for sure.
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Its all this massive conflict of interest isn’t it.
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I wonder if we will ever see prosecutions for the fraud associated with anti psychotics?
https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/opioids,-inc/12624450
“When executives go to jail, that sends out a pretty serious message to the wider business and financial community. And certainly with the Insys story, that message will be pretty clear-cut to the rest of the pharmaceutical world.”
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That’s an excellent question. It is certainly a necessary step in the right direction, as Peter Gotzsche has shown, this is organized crime. It needs to be treated as such.
There is this line between government and business but when government is profiting from business there is no accountability. If the cost(reputational or financial) rises high enough govt will step in and crush the business. The body count unfortunately will have to outweigh the profits. With psychiatric treatments the issue is (this is disgusting) that the patients are only typically put into severe states of suffering and are then dismissed and die early. This does not elicit the same response the large and immediate body count the opioid epidemic has gotten, for that reason. Psychiatry has really put themselves in a sweet spot in that regard and they are well aware they are doing it to their own advantage, i have worked at huge corps and leadership knows exactly how to leverage it.
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You have described the underpinnings of fascism quite articulately.
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“Psychiatry has really put themselves in a sweet spot in that regard and they are well aware they are doing it to their own advantage, i have worked at huge corps and leadership knows exactly how to leverage it.”
I wonder if the best method may be to play them off against each other. There are advantages to providing information about your competitor. For example a dob in a drug dealer program (dobbing is a slang term for telling on someone here) run by police was used by organised criminals to take out their competition.
See the scene in Dark Knight where the Joker offers a position in his organisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0tdldDIhCU
Perhaps what we need is some Dis-organised crime lol
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I think we’d call that a “mole.” Sounds like a great idea!
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Actually, it is a very sound strategy. These corporations only fear the govt and the massive fines and reputational damages done to them by the regulators. Effectively its their only weakness.
I have been in the room when a fortune 5 company is faced with a group of govt regulators. You could hear a pin drop and they only answer questions with yes or no answers because they know any misstep will result in a massive amount of work to provide proof of whatever the regulators are asking(MRA’s typically). The tables are really turned in that situation. They are completely bent over a barrel, They can do nothing but scramble to try and satisfy the demand because if they don’t they will be subject to massive fines and… other potential legal prosecution if it is bad enough.
If someone could effectively leverage the situation it has the potential to provide real results and real change. The govt also has the power to tell them how they want them to continue their business and what standards they are looking for them to meet in the future to avoid penalties.
This situation is usually where you see a whistleblower scenario because they are the only ones with enough detailed knowledge of the practices to get the govt. to bite and make a sure move, and even in that case there is usually political pressure that comes into play as well.
It would be an excellent strategy though.
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“Effectively its their only weakness.”
It has always been my contention that if the world gives you lemons, make lemonade.
What I know is that in my country it is possible to subject people to acts of torture, and conceal those acts as being “inherent in, or incidental to lawful sanction.” This is achieved via bringing them under the provisions of the Mental Health Act. Plant items for police to find and lawfully detain, and then make referral immediately to a Community Nurse to fabricate the ‘reasonable grounds’ to detain the person and administer a ‘chemical restraint’ to induce what appears to be a mental illness, and from that point take it where you will. The ‘burning flesh’ cocktail seems to be quite effective to get people to talk when they are unwilling.
Now I know that some people (not as many as I thought) are a little reluctant to use torture methods but ….. here’s the kicker, it isn’t torture if you call them “patients”. And people just don’t realise how easily that is achieved. And you’d be surprised at what can be called medicine, stuff that even Islamic State gets called evil for can be claimed on Medicare lol.
So we can use these methods to obtain ‘whistleblowers’, and even when they complain about being subjected to ‘coercive’ interrogations we can easily establish that “they’re mental patients, you can’t listen to them” (to quote our Minister for Mental Health speaking about women who were being sexually assaulted in our hospitals).
So while the total destruction of my life by the clinic psychologist may have been terrible for me to endure, what has come out of it is that there are methods of subjecting people to torture and kidnapping (and a negative outcome or two should it be needed) and concealing it as medicine. And even if the victims obtain the proof of this, the state will ‘fuking destroy’ them for daring to voice their concerns.
I mean, it’s a ‘technicality’ and what might be called a ‘loophole’ but …… if God didn’t want us to masterbate He would have given us shorter arms right?
Seriously though, I would never bring myself down to the level of the people who did what they did to me. And while I am certain the community would turn a blind eye (as they did many times before) these criminals will be dealt with most likely by their own hand. My rather naive bumbling around trying to resolve what had been done to me, resulted in the paranoid delusions of these people leading them down a path of evil intent. They will kill people to maintain their reputation and protect their ‘colleagues’. And they honestly believe they have that right. There reputation as torturers and kidnappers concealed through acts of criminal negligence, fraud and slander, and authorities who deny the existence of a Rule of Law in the face of absolute proof of criminality.
The motto of police used to be “protect and serve”. And whilst I agree that even those who have committed criminal acts deserve to be protected and served until they are convicted in a court of law, the idea of police being used as the personal thugs of criminals posing as doctors leaves me gobsmacked.
A psychiatrist simply calls police and has someone they wish to kill flagged by police, and then has then delivered to a hospital to unintentionally negatively outcome them? Care to see how the person who is charged with the “protection of consumers, carers and the community” enforces those protections? With ‘suss laws’ by removing the “reasonable grounds” from the Mental Health Act and refusing to question the “reasonable grounds” supplied for incarcerations and forced druggings? And we are concerned about arbitrary detentions in China?
I was snatched from my bed by public officers after being ‘spiked’ with benzos and interrogated without access to a lawyer, a doctor, a family member for 7 hours. And they concealed this with the signing of a fraudulent prescription for the drugs which became my “regular medication”. And the people who did this obviously felt comfortable enough to not be concerned that anything would be done about it. I was laughed at when I said I would have something done. And rightly so, the system which they claim ‘protects’ the public, does nothing of the sort. It maintains a system of false trust that is being exploited by corrupt officials.
If they are doing something about it, they sure haven’t made that clear to me. And the idea that they should attempt to right their wrongs, rather than continue to refoul victims of torture is a farce. Push them to suicide seems to be the ‘cure’ (check the data, though as stated above, it isn’t torture if you bring them under “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction”. So were looking at the increasing numbers of suicides by ‘patients’ produced from the mental health services. Post hoc fraud proves mens rea on the refoulment).
Anyway, the opportunity is there for someone to set up a “Torture Tourism” business. The ‘precedent’ has been set that all one needs to do is ‘spike’ the target, plant the items to bring them under ‘lawful sanction’ and torture away. Not a soul here prepared to challenge the authorities who are enabling this conduct.
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One issue I do have is the letter of response from the Chief Psychiatrist to the Mental Health Law Centre, where he removes the protections afforded by the law, and enables arbitrary detentions.
I have made the suggestion that this letter was forged and then uttered by the Mental Health Law Centre (possibly at the request of the Minister). But this could not be possible for a number of reasons, that;
I have not been informed by anyone that I was the victim of such an offence. And surely MY lawyers committing such an offence against ME would result in ME being informed?
the Principle of the Law Centre has run in a Federal Election since this letter was questioned by me (and others such as the Council of Official Visitors). This would not occur had such an offence been detected. People with such a history ending up in our Federal Parliament?
the Principle is NOT a public officer and therefore is not protected from prosecution for such serious criminal acts. Or is it the case that when public officers involve the public in offences its a ‘get out of jail free’ situation? I think not.
is she still practicing law since this time?
Of course my detailed response to this letter pointing out how a burden of proof works in law to the Chief Psychiatrist who provides “expert legal advice to the Minister” did not cover every one of the ‘errors’ made in his letter of response (handed to me from the Law Centre without them being able to read it). It is very difficult to write such responses from the back seat of a car when your left homeless by police. And with such a large amount of ‘errors’ occurring detailing them all when the people responding simply continue to make further errors and ignore questions of law where it suits their purposes becomes even more difficult. Simply making more problems for the victim is highly effective from a position of power (malfeasance in office). In fact I would imagine a large number of suicides occur as a result but when they have the ability to “edit” the facts then we will never become aware of the truth. The whole reason detre of the FOI legislation is subverted with this ability to “edit” the truth and manufacture preferred legal narratives. Australians value a rule of law wahahhahahaha.
So given that the uttering of this suspected forged letter would have resulted in someone being held to account, and that person has NOT been held to account, I can only assume the Chief Psychiatrist wrote this letter, and is authorising arbitrary detentions and the use on known torture methods in our hospitals. Not only this but he is also aware that documents are being “edited” (aka legal narratives are being changed before distribution to lawyers) to conceal these serious criminal offences and human rights abuses.
Anyone care to examine these letters I speak of? What about we put two lawyers in different rooms with the two different sets of documents distributed by the hospital and test the hypothesis that the documents are not fraudulent? I mean, I know they are but just to be sure to be sure. How convenient that they didn’t have time to examine this 4 page letter which after all has significant consequences for the whole community if the person responsible for the protection of consumers, carers and the community doesn’t know what those protections are and is allowing citizens to be ‘spiked’, snatched from their beds and delivered to a hospital by police for ‘treatment’ by a doctor they have never even met, for an illness they don’t have, with drugs they don’t want. I can see a problem, but unfortunately i’m the only one who does (am I alone, or are people being threatened to be silent and look the other way?)
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boans,
I deeply admire your persistence in telling your story and attempting to get answers. Has anyone ever given you a good answer as to what should be done for citizens of ‘free’ countries in that situation? Your asking the hard questions and I think they demand real answers from real people.
I think I am searching for some of the same answers you are and so far I have only come up with what Steve has said, it sounds like the ‘underpinnings of fascism’. If your narrative is indeed true, and all the evidence i have encountered is that it is. I have spoken to so many people who have given an incredibly similar story, with nothing to lose, I have absolutely no reason to doubt it. What do we do next? If we face fascism parading as democracy, what has happened? How toxic is our homeland? How has fascism been defeated in the past? I think we all know the unpleasant answer to that and it explains why the methods we are using now aren’t getting traction. No fascist regime that i can recall has met a peaceable end. Our warrior class is busy upholding the edicts of corruption under the pretense of freedom. So there is no one left to defend the innocent victims of these crimes.
I would really like to hear an honest, plausible and viable answer.
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Thanks James,
“Has anyone ever given you a good answer as to what should be done for citizens of ‘free’ countries in that situation?”
Short answer is No. We have a rule of law until we don’t like the outcome of that rule of law, and in that situation we ‘fuking destroy’ the victims of malfeasance in office. I have made what I believe to be legitimate complaints regarding what was done to me to the authorities (in the manner they ask that they are made) and all they have done is use their position to deliberately harm me. I have asked of my own government to assist me, and whether they have or not I don’t know, but what I can say is it sure doesn’t feel like it.
I have been amazed that people who are not even citizens of this Nation have more rights than myself. people being detained in ‘offshore detention’ allowed access to a lawyer and the right to make complaints to the Aust. Human Rights Commission who tell me, in writing, they don’t take complaints regarding acts of torture by public officers.
I have asked, and ask again in this forum, for the right to seek asylum from these people who have in the first instance subjected me to acts of torture, and when I made a legitimate complaint regarding those acts, did what is called a cover up and made an attempt to kill me. I’m sure they are embarrassed about this group of public officers operating in the shadows not too dissimilar to the people dealing with issues in a hands off way for Putin or M.B.S.
Okay, i’m not that important to warrant news items or even the right to life from what I have observed. But really? For complaining about public sector misconduct you get a death sentence? And when they realise the cover up has not been effective, they double down and attempt to conceal their wrongdoing by uttering with the fraud created to do the cover up? They maintain the fraud of the ‘mental patient’ and slander me for speaking the truth.
I know that there have been things happen that suggest to me that something ha been done regarding these people. And sure I also get it that maybe it’s best I don’t know certain aspects of that. I get the feeling that when the poo hit the fan (I usually measure this as when the police started threatening the psychologist to find out “who else had the documents” realising that what I had been saying all along was true, and that they had assisted in the torture and kidnapping planned by my wife and the clinic psychologist, and that other now had the proof of this also).
“If we face fascism parading as democracy, what has happened?”
The Mental Health Act is what has happened. The use of this as a means to redirect any ‘enemies of the States corruption’ and ensure that any action they attempt to take is dealt with via ‘treatments’ “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction”. Me slipping through the net exposed how it is being done, the sin on the part of the Minister and Principle of the Law Centre was being caught, NOT that they are doing it. And how can they be held to account for what others are doing?
I do wish there were things I could discuss openly regarding the way these matters have been (I believe) dealt with. Consider if you will that someone interrupted the ‘outcome’ planned for me in the Emergency Dept as a result of not having the stomach for it (good guy, bad guy? Who knows?) But consider also that once that ‘outcome’ was interrupted then they attempted to retrieve the proof I had of what i’m saying, slandered me with the fraud that was provided to the Law Centre, and then a scurrying of activity when I turned up with those documents two years later.
Of course I expected some support from people who are not fans of torture and kidnappings by the State but they had already gone along with the fraud and well as was the case with the Council of Official Visitors with the letter from the Chief Psychiatrist they asked a question and were quickly put in their place with a threat. How is it possible to trust these people when they can not be open and honest?
I know that in my Book it speaks often about people who conceal the truth with falsehoods. There is an argument to say they are not concealing the truth, merely allowing people to be lead astray by the fraud of others (eg the Minister saying he is sorry I am still upset about my ‘referral’ and ‘detention’ [kidnapping and torture if one sees these matters for what they are, but by making the false claim that this was ‘medicine’ then my complaining is a symptom of an illness rather than me a victim of crimes. The removal of the documents proving that I was ‘spiked’ and replacing them [editing] with others and then saying that my complaint about being ‘spiked’ was a paranoid delusion shows how these people are operating. It took me some time to resolve that this was how they were denying me access to a lawyer with backstabbing slander. The shock when the divorce lawyer realised I was speaking the truth was …… I guess she doesn’t get to see many people who survive a ‘fuking destruction’ by the State when they are simply killing them] and that I should get some ‘help’ (from the people who tortured and kidnapped me).
I guess in some ways this is about groups of fascists fighting over the power available and not people who are against the implementation of a fascist State. Both sides simply have differing models of fascism they are trying to implement. Otherwise why would someone not take up with the Chief Psychiatrist his enabling of arbitrary detentions and torture? Okay, so he told the Council of Official Visitors to fuk off and keep their noses out of a cover up, but they are only a State statutory authority put in place to ensure that human rights are not being abused. And if they can’t neglect their statutory duty to allow the Chief Psychiatrist to enable torture and kidnappings for psychiatrists …… what’s the point of having laws that look like they protect citizens if you can’t ignore them? But what about federal bodies? International ones? I guess they simply don’t care. For example Aust. Lawyers for Human Rights don’t give a damn about victims of torture. But if I can’t get a wedding cake made for when I get married to my husband they’re on to it.
All roads lead to Rome and well, unfortunately my State has found ways of ensuring their torturing is going undetected, and that is not by some accident. I showed them how it is being done only to be kicked in the face by these good moral upstanding people who were glad that it was caught before anyone helped me.
I’m sure that Jamal Kashoggis wife knocking on the door of the ‘interrogation’ he was subjected to resulted in her not being heard also. When mental health professionals are using police as their personal kidnapping and torture service, and receiving assistance from police to conceal that misconduct their is a problem. When they are being given time to resolve their problems with police misconduct their is a problem. The laws are written with the possibility of these types of abuses in mind. But when those charged with a duty fail to perform that duty (or as was stated outside Parliamentary privilege about our previous Minister “derelict in her duty” [fail to report acts of torture and kidnapping coz …… “you sure you got this covered up Operations Manager?”]) there is a problem.
The last person I put my faith in to see that something was done about this …… I spoke to with a lawyer who had previously accepted the lies told by the Law Centre and given me the ‘flick’. We went through the ‘facts of the matter’ to the point where we identified what was done to conceal the ‘spiking’ [ie make it my “regular medication” and write a prescription for it 12 hours after it was administered aka conspire to pervert the course of justice, conceal a criminal offence etc]. After that I was pretty much dumped in the street again. I dod of course try and speak to this person but was simply told “I’m not allowed to speak to you” (I assume without my rather ineffective/negligent previous lawyer who was covering her arse in a situation where her negligence had been exposed. Was she appointed my lawyer as someone who was already compromised and could be used to throw me under a bus once they were done questioning me?) and he seemed more concerned about the fact he had “insurance”.
I’d love to be in a place where I was safe and could be helped to document all of this (I have tried but the people who do start helping become afraid, and as you probably noticed my writing skills are lacking). I notice an asylum seeker who was being tortured by the Australian govt on Manus Island managed to get asylum in N.Z. recently. The fact that he was not safe should he return to Aust territory damning, especially given that these people actually have MORE rights than citizens (ie they have access to legal representation regarding matters of torture, I am denied this right because ….. they have ‘hijacked’ my rights under the guise of ‘medicine’.
I guess in answer to your question James, all we can do is what the people in Germany did, run while you can. The latest use of the ‘mental health services’ to ‘flag’ as many people as possible as a result of covid very clever when one thinks about it. Why use force when you can have people do what you require with a little coercion. And they are even providing the money for this ’rounding up’ of large groups of people. I wonder if the National Socialists in Germany had a system where people with Jewish backgrounds could call and ask for ‘help’? “Hello Helpline, i’m a little anxious over the fact my Great Grandfather was a Mr Cohen and it may effect my work for the State. Can you help me?”……..”We sure can, and thank you for your call”.
Is it too late? More than likely. Good news about it all is the only thing left for the State to take from me is my heartbeat. And I am of the opinion that now that I have even been denied assistance from my own government (British) to leave this place, they will be looking at taking that heartbeat some time in the near future.
“I would really like to hear an honest, plausible and viable answer.”
Me too James, me too.
The honest answer didn’t suit them, so they are fabricating them. And now they want us to accept their ‘truths’ when it comes to this pandemic? I think they are beginning to see the results of their repeated lying to us all. trust a finite resource that eventually runs out.
“Our warrior class is busy upholding the edicts of corruption under the pretense of freedom.”
Rights paid for in blood (no arbitrary detentions, no torture) written away by the Chief Psychiatrist, and this supported by the ‘human rights advocates’ at the Mental Health Law Centre who lack the courage to point out to the Emperor that his Armani suits are a figment of his imagination. They really do disgust me.
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One thing I can say James is that it can’t be that doctors are exempt from prosecution when they break the law. The police do seem to be able to find their copy of the Criminal Code in some instances.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/oncologist-john-kearsley-jailed-after-drugging-and-indecently-assaulting-doctor-20160826-gr1q75.html
This guy is actually a doctor and can prescribe benzodiazepines, though it seems his “patient” in this instance managed to convince police that his prescribing practices were actually outside the law.
The offences he stood trial on were ‘stupefying with intent’ and ‘sexual assault’ (I believe).
What I noticed form this was that the ‘victim’ suspected that she had been ‘spiked’ and obtained a toxicology report to prove she had the drug in her system. The negligence of the Community Nurse in my instance in not allowing me my human right to not be drugged with stupefying drugs without my knowledge meant that I could not obtain such a report. Though it was documented as a result of the call to the hospital, and then as with other inconvenient information, disappeared, whilst the slander was manufactured.
None of the people up until I had been kidnapped by police and presented to the Senior Medical Officer in the cage had the right to prescribe these drugs to me, and so he did it post hoc to conceal the offences.
When reading about the above case I note that one tablet (5mg) was put into a bottle of wine they shared. In my instance I was given 5mg and then another 5mg when the first pill didn’t have the immediate effect desired (eg to deprive me of my liberty and allow items to be planted on me for police once the Community Nurse had confirmed their attendance) So I was given 4 times the amount by people conspiring who had NO PRESCRIBING RIGHTS.
Ah but Dr Kearsley intended to sexually assault his victim, in my instance they were merely trying to have me transported against my will to a locked cage to be subjected to interrogation whilst stupefied without my knowledge. Oh wait, that’s the definition of torture and kidnapping, can we rewrite that? Yes, with approval of the Clinical Director who would realise the significance of his staff torturing and kidnapping citizens, and then having doctors sign prescriptions for drugging of citizens without their knowledge to enable such acts.
So 4 times the amount, intent of much more serious offences and ….. I guess what Kearsley should have done was invoked the provisions of the Mental Health Act on his victim and had police hold her down while he ‘treated’ her. I’m sure her anosognosia would have subsided once she realised what a sex god he really was, and her rejections would have become begging. In much the same way as my refusal to cooperate with the forced drugging of em would have been overcome with weeks if not months of dribble therapy.
So as far as answers go, I believe I have a right to hear why it is I can have these serious offences committed against me. My question to the Minister regarding what drugs I can be ‘spiked’ with, and by whom reasonable I think given they are authorising benzos at large amounts when it is clear these date rape drugs are unlawful in other circumstances.
Funnily the amount is not specified in the law (for some obvious reasons). Though Kearsley does give an indication of a line where police will act. A defense is available if the person who did it thought the victim wouldn’t mind if they knew [which of course falls as a result of the 6 weeks of conspiring to conceal it from me. So it was a crime, and not medicine. Though it appears that our Minister is more than happy with this method being used on anyone who has been hijacked as “patient” under the Act, and which I was NOT as defined in the Act. major problem which they tried to resolve after the fact with fraud. Shows the respect being shown to “patients” by these ‘good people’ allowing human rights to be abused and then denying any involvement through acts of fraud and slander. Filthy backstabbers.]
Lets start with why Kearsley gets charged and the two people who conpsired and arranged for me to be ‘spiked’ with drugs that were not mine, and which they knew I would never take willingly didn’t?
One of them was my wife? Well, they knew the reason she wanted me assessed was because I had told her parents I was leaving her [though the traige notes suggest that she told them this but didn’t know this. aka make it look like i’m still his wife, wouldn’t want his family stepping in when were torturing and kidnapping him. Same goes for a lawyer or a doctor who would know he wasn’t his “patient” anymore).
One of them was my doctor? Well, actually no. They did try to have me obtain a referral post hoc to make me into the clinic psychs “patient” and thus then allow them to conspire against the “patient” but this failed. And I assume that this was the reason they planned to have me murdered before police noticed I wasn’t actually a “patient” and was really a victim of serious criminal offences. They shouldn’t have worried, 9 years and police still won’t accept the documented proof of the offences, never mind a statement. How bizarre that they will stand and watch while a citizen is murdered to conceal torture and kidnapping. Oh wait, medicine magic. Like Voodoo lol
So everyone happy with poisoning if you dare tell your wife or husband your leaving? Police will come and assist you with these acts of domestic violence? And then shoot the victim when they find the knife you planted on them?
Of course I may be lying. I may have got this all wrong or ….. anyone care to check what I’m saying? Not the police, they tell me that when the clinic psychologist and my wife tried to have me attend the ED where the psychs husband was a consultant psychiatrist and deal with my ‘mental illness’ that came about as a result of being tortured and kidnapped it’s best they don’t know about that, and well, if I keep turning up in a police station with the documented proof I will be arrested. Though even lawyers who are politicians can’t seem to tell me what the charge would be.
All there if anyone ever cares to take a look. And hey, not a lot of people dying (due to outcoming in the ED) in the meantime.
Seriously? Snatched from your bed after being ‘spiked’ with benzos, and having items planted for police to find. dropped into a locked cage in a mental institution for 7 hours of interrogation whilst not informed I had been drugged without my knowledge with date rape drugs and I get killed for wishing to complain? Ah well, you see Boans there’s things we can’t tell you. like we made you into a “patient” without telling you, and well you were asleep so couldn’t consent, and once you were umped by police in your bed well, the wheels were in motion….. sorry bout that. Anyway, busy, got a Premier to spike in his lunch, and have police make a mental health referral when he falls asleep with his knife and fork in his hand. Were going to chemically restrain him for his delusion of thinking he is the Premier (nothing like being able to drug people for speaking the truth and calling it an illness) and ask him a few questions about his financial dealings that he seems reluctant to answer openly and honestly. then we will start the treatment for the illness he is about to get as a result of that chemical restraint.
Good for the goose, good for the gander. All there should anyone care to look. And I would ask for ‘real’ help from any government where arbitrary detentions and torture are seen as being human rights abuses, not something to be concealed to maintain your reputation. I ask for asylum from this State government who has been refouling me for 9 years now (and I assume with full knowledge of the Federal govt. Don’t say I haven’t told them).
The denial of a right to effective legal representation being a method that will no doubt increase in the future given the effectiveness of it in the past. Deny access to the law and refer to mental health for ‘treatment’. It will no longer be about money when lawyers know that the State will target their families if they do not act in the interests of the State, and against the interests of their ‘clients’. Torture away people, your free to do as you wish with zero accountability. No rights without remedy.
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Who benefits? Who would have obtained a benefit had I been murdered in the E.D.?
Certainly the party in government at the time. It would have created the image that all was well in mental health, rather than the fact that the laws protecting the public are being totally ignored and citizens are being subjected to arbitrary detentions, torture, and other associated human and civil rights abuses.
This weapon of a Police State needs to remain concealed in order to be effective. The three card monte exposed means no one wishes to play the game once they know its rigged. So those in Opposition expose only enough to create fear in the current government, and once in power maintain the concealment of the abuses and begin using the very same methods for their own advantage. “Their” corruption now becomes “Our” corruption. And the victims are not only putting their neighbors in, they are sometimes reporting themselves. “Hello, this is the mental health helpline, how can we help you (into an early grave mumbled under their breath)”
The hospital themselves gains a benefit in a number of ways. Not only do they manage to conceal a large number of serious criminal offences they also create links with corrupt police, test the waters with regards the distribution of fraudulent documents and see how effectively they are being ‘policed’, and begin to corrupt the ‘watchdog’ bodies by luring them into corrupt relationships that can be used to conceal future criminal acts. Their ‘fuking destruction’ of a citizen publically for daring to complain about being tortured and kidnapped an act of terrorism letting other know what will be done to them should they dare make any legitimate complaint about the misconduct of hospital staff. Kill one to scare a thousand.
The private clinic, and the clinic psychologist obtain a benefit. The passing around of “patients” from private to public systems a problem given the protections afforded both “patients” and citizens by the law. ‘Remotes’ being frowned upon and not prosecuted by police who can’t find their copy of the Criminal Code can be used to the benefit of doctors, particularly those with links to organised crime. Positioning oneself in private clinics with wealthy and influential clients who can be ‘hijacked’ into the public system and then brutalised with impunity an excellent means of turning a dollar. Especially when one considers that the public not only accepts the ‘negative outcomes’ from the public system, they almost demand it. This alternative system of justice allowing punishments that could never be achieved in the prison system. (ever been held in the locked ward people? Take a look from the inside. Ever wonder why they wish to construct a mental health hospital in the centre of a Supermax? The thought of mental health is enough to scare even our hardest criminals. The modifications to the electric chair simply slowing the process down to a crawl, for now.).
My wife and her prof. friend obtained a benefit. My wife still has everything I ever worked for in her possession. I don’t even have a photograph of my mother (all of my documents Passport, birth certificate, degree, work history etc), never mind all of my tools, my clothes, the money I put into the house etc. All being held for 9 years now and causing me significant disadvantage in being able to obtain legal representation. Was this why it was done? you’d have to ask the people who arranged to ‘fuking destroy’ me with my wife and her co conspirators. And of course the conspiracy to stupefy and commit an indctable offence totally ignored by police because they went to the trouble of procuring the services of police to torture and kidnap me. My wifes doctor friend obtaining a benefit by putting the doctor who was going to outcome me in his pocket for later use (surprised you didn’t wait until post ‘treatment’ to intervene Doc. Dead men tell no tales, whilst the mental patient is simply ignored, though the truths they sometimes speak are sometimes heard by the wise). That’s got to be worth a dollar or two, someone ‘working the system’ and disposing of inconvenient truths without the Coroner noticing.
And lastly there is a benefit for the Community. They live in ignorance that all this is being done under their noses, and that they are actually paying a lot of money for it. The media who refuse to even consider telling our stories, and the ‘advocates’ who turn their backs on us providing a service to these people to ensure that nothing ever changes. They can speak of a need for ‘reforms’ and the need to keep these human rights abuses concealed to not damage the reputations of the few ‘good’ people in the system rather than expose the truth and allow people to make their own minds up based on facts and truth.
So I guess in this sense this all fits into what Plato called Noble Corruption. Everyone seems to benefit, and even those being killed by the State are becoming martyrs for the cause of mental health. The Mad Mullahs of Medicine fighting their jihad against those morally corrupt mental patients.
Maintain your silence. Let what is happening behind the fence remain an unspoken secret. Let the ashes fall on your houses and be washed by the rain into the gutters and into the earth. And once again you can feign shock and horror when the truth is finally exposed, and believe me, it will be exposed. But, we must move forward and what matters is that it wasn’t me or my family that was ‘fuking destroyed’ by the State, and as long as that remains the case, my silence is paid for.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mentally-ill-woman-dies-in-nsw-hospital-after-falling-25-times-20170512-gw36ee.html
I can ‘see’ the doctor who has been ‘treating’ this ‘patient’ beating her around the head. It’s not obvious, but if you look carefully it can be seen. Of course we have been conditioned NOT to see. And the Minister speaks of ‘reforms’ and ‘this tragic situation’ not being repeated, people are falling through cracks and blah blah blah.
What they don’t seem to realise is that the protections afforded the public by the law are being ignored by authorities, and this ‘patient’ in the above article could be them in less than three hours. Want me to show you how?
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Wow Boans, Your story is so lucid to me it leaves little room for doubt, and casts quite a bright light on the corruption of the involved parties. It seems you have exhausted all your resources are you sure there is no other independent parties that could add pressure to the situation? It certainly seems you have nothing to lose. I know the US media is pretty useless but you can find some honest patrons that will help uncover these types of things. That’s just so jacked, and you have done your homework, I think its a very convincing case.
You mentioned a book – ‘I know that in my Book it speaks often about people who conceal the truth with falsehoods.’ Is this a published work by you or a book you read often?
Also, this may seem a little existential but have you though the answer to justice may lie outside your current thinking patterns? I have been seriously stuck on certain things causing me massive discomfort in the past. It seems the only way i was able to resolve them is when my mindset changed enough, the answers seemed to present themselves to me instead of me fixating on what I thought was wrong. Please do not take that as a challenge to your current ideas about what happened to you. It is simply and purely something i observed about myself. Even with this TMS situation I seem to only feel better about it when I try and change my perspective. When i was able to do that i found other experts and resources that shed more light on what was really going on with the whole picture of TMS, like the technology, how it was really developed and for what purposes. I could have never expected to figure out such a bizarre series of events. I just talked to some engineers last night that I thought may think my story bizarre and look at myself as being vastly different than them, because they were hard working gents with no history of medical issues. This turned out to be completely opposite, they empathized and started telling me about all the tech that they work with for the us govt. that they can only have limited exposure to or it will maim or kill them. One of the gents was on a team working with a certain piece of tech and thier boss had told them don’t get too close to the tech or you will lose your Y chromosomes and you’ll only be able to have girls. Years later the team realized that between them they had had 12 children and all were girls except one. A Year later the one team member that had a boy found out his wife had cheated on him and the child was not his. They illuminated me about much more detail and how tech is developed and the dangers are known but not disclosed. Very enlightening. I have to say that for a moment i thought twice about even telling them my story because it opens this pandoras box inside me every time i still tell it. However if i hadn’t, i would have never learned some important details and gained access to important people that really wanted to help.
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“You mentioned a book”
Al Qur’an. And I read it every day.
It also says “Let the people of the injiil (Christian Bible) judge according to what Allah has revealed therein. If they fail to do this, then they are no better than the unbelievers”
(Al Maidah ayat 47).
This is important in that our laws are based on the Abrahamic tradition, and that the laws as I understand them are consistent with the principles laid out there. People who are committing acts of fraud, slandering to conceal the truth are no better than unbelievers, and they will be treated as such by Muslims.
Ie thou shalt not kill. Though in recent times they have passed the Euthanasia Act to insert a loophole in that command. Thou shalt not kill, except when ………
Personally I see these laws all through our legal system and how they are being resolved according to the prophecies. In my instance the police only failed to retrieve the documents I had as a result of me walking into a Mosque. The State Police fully aware that it is difficult to commit serious offences under the noses of Federal Officers who are keeping a close eye on certain groups in our community. So they had to take the chance that they had been effective in having my wife retrieve the documented proof of the ‘spiking’. They failed, and I attribute that to the fact these types of offences shall be made known to others who then have a choice about what they do with that information. Do they double down, or do they act according to what the law requires? There are ‘tests’ of integrity and failing to perform one duty (ie report the matters to the authorities in preference for a cover up) and then reporting if the cover up is exposed is actually a worse offence than the original offences. Once again reflected in our laws which makes conspiring to pervert the course of justice a serious offence with a mandatory prison term. And of course here lies the ultimate test, do they think they can conceal these matters from God Himself? If they do, then they truly are unbelievers, despite their attendance at church every Sunday. Might I suggest their attendance there is about corrupting others who also attend. I know they also fail to see how easily they are identified as such. Alliances only go as far as we can trust the allied to stand by the agreements they have made. My State has ratified the Convention against the use of Torture, and look at how they are resolving complaints about known acts of torture. Make a mistake, correct yourself immediately AND do what you can to put the situation right. The Chief Psychiatrist sends me a letter AFTER the documents surface admitting his “error” [and is very vague about what that “error’ was] but does nothing (that I have seen) to correct that “error”. And we are to trust this person? Maybe he has reported to others who are failing to act but …….. hence the problem with “concealing the truth when you know what it is”.
Fraud, slander, conspiring [aka backbiting], intoxication by deception, kidnapping, torture …… these are all matters frowned upon in Islam (references available should they be required), but receive the full support of our State Police despite what our laws say (“we don’t have a copy of the Criminal Code in this Station” while organised criminals sort out their little problem in the Emergency Dept). In fact, as stated I have a letter here from the Chief Psychiatrist (and confirmed as fact by the Minister in writing) that arbitrary detentions by Community Nurses of ANY citizen is lawful. Not only this but that whilst they thought only the hospital had the documentation relating to the ‘spiking’ he writes that what was actually done about that matter wasn’t entirely clear, and he wasn’t going to ask any questions so…….. In fact it is perfectly clear what was done, the Senior Medical Officer has written a fraudulent prescription for the drugs I was ‘spiked’ with and called them my “regular medications” (still, if the documents had been retrieved, and he thought only he had the truth in his hands…… quick look both ways and then lie. The writing of that prescription is a serious criminal offence, and a failure to report that is also a serious offence). I would under no circumstances take these intoxicants, and I suppose that since I was not anyone’s “patient” they couldn’t very well pin me down and force me to take them, so spiking me and then slandering me as paranoid should I complain was quite clever (and consider that the ‘intent’ was not to ‘medicate’ but to incapacitate to allow items to be planted for police and deny me my right to leave). Especially given that complaining about being drugged without your knowledge is THE most common delusion (which leaves me wondering about how often the Chief Psychiatrist is ‘overlooking’ these offences when it comes to “patients”).
“Also, this may seem a little existential but have you though the answer to justice may lie outside your current thinking patterns?”
Many, many times James. My thinking on these matters has shifted significantly over the years. It was difficult to go through and identify who it was that had true evil intent, mainly because of the fact that criminals tend to muddy the water and make their offences look like someone elses responsibility. See for example the way the Operations Manager deceived the young girl in the FOI office into accepting an email from the ‘Clinical Director’ authorising the fraudulent documents for the Mental Health Law Centre. This act by the Operations Manager is an act of pure evil, not only committing fraud to conceal torture and kidnapping, but covering her tracks and laying the responsibilty for that fraud at the Clinical Directors feet. I can only imagine his response when Investigators from the Corruption and Crime Commission began asking him questions, and what if he were to end up in prison for those offences? So I have been extremely careful in attributing evil intent. I even recognise that what else was the clinic psychologists husband (the psychiatrist) going to do OTHER than kill me? The State is authorising him to do that, so what if it is for his convenience? I had a job where I delivered pizzas once, and I used to get a few free ones.
“Please do not take that as a challenge to your current ideas about what happened to you.”
Funny but I actually want my ideas challenged, tear them to pieces, show me where I am wrong? Isn’t that how it’s meant to be? Isn’t that how we arrive at the ‘truth’? Whatever that may be? It the way authorities have gone about concealing these matters that has been so damaging to me. Backstabbing, fraud, threats to my family to have them manipulate outcomes …. I get it.
And I get it that the State does not wish citizens to be aware they are torturing, kidnapping, and then killing anyone who dares complain. Okay, like a bad marriage I don’t agree with where they are going with this, and we should part company. But no, like an abuser they are denying me access to my property and my right to leave. We don’t want you leaving the relationship and talking about what happened lol. Go ahead, find someone else to torture and abuse. Plenty of people banging at the door trying to get into the place, I just want out. An Attorney General who refers matters of law to mental health is not what I voted for, and never will. In Opposition he is defending a man tortured by our police on the streets of the city, once in power he is referring a question about where I complain about being tortured to mental health for ‘actioning’. Walter Lindrum changed the rules once he became world champion and I don’t think he ever lost his crown as a result. Writing your own rules makes things easy, for some.
My heart well and truly tested, and my brothers are aware of this. I will speak my truth, deliver the message and warn of a terrible punishment. I know as a result of police threats how I will make the journey to meet my maker. Not cowering begging them for mercy, but with knowledge that someone was watching, and that no matter what, good will triumph over evil in the end. I’m just sad I won’t be here to see it lol. Certainly not if my State has me outcomed, because they must be sick of covering the truth with falsehoods and having to threaten so many people by now. And they are making all sorts of noise about China here, arbitrary detentions? The raison detre of the Mental Health Act and the changes is about being able to arbitrarily detain citizens. It used to be the case that ‘mental health’ was something they needed to get you to a hospital to deal with, these days it is home delivered via police with tazers and guns handing you over to a filthy ‘verballer’ to give the appearance of “lawful sanction”. They stole your rights and made it look like you wanted it done lol.
Have a chat to a radiographer or two re the girls. The math can be difficult but ……
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Thou shalt not bear false witness.
So the Community Nurse who has a duty to complete a Form 1 referral before having a citizen incarcerated is required under the Mental Health Act to:
(e) specify the facts on the basis of which it is suspected that the person should be made an involuntary patient; and
(f) distinguish from the facts known because of personal observation by the referrer, any of the facts which have been communicated to the referrer.
The Form is separated into two sections “observed” and “communicated” matters. This a protection from being detained SOLELY on the basis of hearsay. Finger-point detentions could obviously be weaponised against for example a neighbour in a dispute so…….
So in my instance the Community Nurse has found a way around the requirement to document observed facts, its called the corrupt practice of ‘verballing’. So for example he asks me about a fight I had in school 45 years ago and he has “observed’ me engaging in violent conduct towards others. In fact, he has also ‘observed’ my violent thoughts if you read his poorly ‘verballed’ statutory declaration. The whole document contains absolutely no observations, and the twisting of words from the required literal wording to a figurative wording. “Not sleeping/eating” when what he was informed about was that I had not been sleeping well, and eating snacks. I did ask that he point me to any legislation that specified what I should be eating and how much I must sleep before being jumped in my bed whilst asleep by police but …. hey wait, they woke me up. Not sleeping? his ‘observation’?
So he has borne witness before God that he observed certain matters. The document does contain an element of truth, for example the people he claims I was paranoid (implied, not explicitly stated) about watching me (my “neigbours”) were actually my in Laws who lived next door. Surely he could see that this might be a bit misleading.
So I put all these matters to the Chief Psychiatrist in detail (and in writing if anyone cares to examine them). There is a protection in the law called the Oaths, Affidavits and Statutory Declarations Act which states that;
“The validity of an oath, affirmation or statutory declaration is not affected by the fact that the person taking or making it does not use the exact words required as long as the words actually used do not materially affect the substance of the exact words and are not likely to mislead.”
Not likely to mislead? This guy actually mislead the Chief Psychiatrist into a false belief that he had “reasonable grounds” to detain. The test was done when the Chief Psychiatrist responded to my letter of complaint, and it failed the test, it was not only likely to mislead, it actually mislead. Fortunately the Chief Psychiatrist doesn’t recognise the “reasonable grounds” aspect of the law (a burden of proof) and is allowing arbitrary detentions based on these ‘verbals’. He writes that I provided “justifiable explanations” for the matters listed ….. etc . No, I was pointing out that it was not possible for the Community Nurse to time travel and read minds. Perhaps psychiatrists have made the breakthrough and have not informed the rest of us?
It is clear to me that the Community Nurse is fully aware of the laws protecting the public from his misconduct, and has found a way around it, it’s called criminal fraud. The Chief Psychiatrist is enabling his conduct through neglecting his duty, and denying the public a right to remedy as a result of this fraud. This man is literally killing people with his conduct. I have no doubt deaths have occurred as a result of him, and should you question that misconduct, he laughs at you and his Operations Manager fuking destroys you, with authority of both the Chief Psychiatrist AND the Minister.
That is of course as long as the cover up works. Problems arise when they need to go back and cover their arses, and try and make it look like they did their duty post hoc.
(2) Subject to subsections (4), (5) and (6), a person to whom this section applies must notify the Commission in writing of any matter —
(a) which that person suspects on reasonable grounds concerns or may concern serious misconduct; and (it’s an act of serious misconduct to NOT report)
[serious misconduct defined as 2 years or more prison. Lets start with concealing evidence of a criminal offence, namely intoxication by deception? Or ummmm kidnapping, that’s like 20 years And it is meant to be done “as soon as the person becomes aware of the suspected misconduct” and not when the cover up has been exposed and it looks like trouble. Sorry, didn’t report coz I thought they had knocked the guy, better late than never right?]
Shame the Chief Psychiatrist doesn’t understand how “reasonable grounds” operates in law. He would no doubt understand the significance of it being “paramount” to report suspected misconduct where public officers are concealing the ‘spiking’ of citizens with date rape drugs before interrogations? Still, if he never suspects, and removes the need for “reasonable grounds” he would never, under any circumstances need to report to the Commission. He simply never suspects any of his colleagues and that’s the end of the matter.
Thou shalt not bear false witness, except if your a public officer and we will kill anyone who dares complain about your fraud. How dare they question our authority?
So we know what traveled across the desk of the Chief Psychiatrist and the Minister, and that it was a cover up they went along with (torture, kidnapping, and well, not sure they knew that the clinic psychs husband tried to knock me but a bit sad sending victims of such crimes away from a police station because ‘mental patient’ and we’ll look the other way while they kill him), but ……. did they report to the CCC? Question asked in the Upper House of the Minister, how many reports have you made to the Commission in the past 2 years? Answer…….. see the Hansards.
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And the real kicker, the hypocrites.
I’ve heard so many times about the ‘advocates’ who want changes to occur in the ‘mental health system’. patients being treated badly and not getting a voice etc.
Well, I was ‘accidentally’ treated as a “patient” and should still have a voice because I wasn’t actually a “patient”. I can speak for these people who they claim they want to help. Like the guy who wrote the book, Black Like Me. Or Saul of Tarsus as someone once pointed out to me “Yes I am a Christian, but I am also a Roman”. And the magistrates became afraid. The point being that if I can be subjected to torture and kidnapping, then so can the people authorising it. That they would not stand for, the destruction of my life and family is a cost they will bear as a consequence of the need to allow Community Nurses to arbitrarily detain, but not in their homes. I’m sure police would find their copy of the Criminal Code fairly quickly then.
Unbelievable that these ‘advocates’ don’t actually want the voices heard. They are prepared to assist in throwing people under the bus to ensure they AREN’T heard. They’re not ‘advocates’, they’re hypocrites. I know in my case it was simply a matter of using the fabricated slander to bring them onside. lets not bother checking any facts, rather we will simply go along with the lies they have fabricated and act accordingly. Not unusual with wrongful convictions, though at least with them you get 20 years prison and let out, with mental health services you get tortured into submission with brain damaging chemicals and belts of electricity to your skull and are ‘never to be released’.
The first knee jerk reaction to someone complaining about mental health services is slander and stick a needle in it to silence it. Make up an illness, just get it done.
I could go through a list but the two that stand out are the Mental Health Law Centre, and the Council of Official Visitors. Protectors of human rights they are not. They are being used to create the appearance of compliance with International treaties, and they are actively engaging in human rights abuses by ensuring they are part of denying those who have been wronged access to legal representation. They turn and run as soon as instructed to by the authorities. “Yes Your Highness, anything you say Your Highness. Sorry for asking why you rewrote the law to allow kidnappings”.
Still, they’re the ones living in the big houses with the nice BMWs in the driveways, so who’s the sucker there?
These people have no intention of doing anything for those being abused in the mental health system, if they did they were presented with the perfect opportunity, and showed who they really are. Al Munafiqoon.
“They will take their oaths as a cover”
And so my hope is to live in a place where people do not act in such a manner. Where there are checks and balances on the exercise of power such as not merely suspecting, but having reasonable grounds (such as Criteria (s. 26) set out in the Act that can not be removed by the Chief Psychiatrist because they are inconvenient and merely there for show should anyone from the UN ask what were doing to stop citizens being tortured and calling it medicine like Bashar al Assad does). Or is that where we got the idea from? Is that why our government provides services to people tortured by foreign governments, but provides a slanderous label and forced drugging to victims of State sanctioned torture here? When done by foreign governments they are victims, when done by mental health services they’re “patients”, and meet the “inherent in or incidental to lawful sanction” loophole?
And consider, they tried to make me into a “patient” post hoc to ensure that my rights were removed, and that they could conspire lawfully and conceal their torture and kidnapping, and failed. So what happens to the ones where they succeed? No, surely the suicide rate is increasing because more chemicals are getting unbalanced these days?
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Wow Boans,
I am glad(for you not for your aggressors) that you have made peace with your situation.
Having read every word, it seems you have come to a place where you want to educate others. I certainly thought I understood what had happened to you reasonably well but after rereading it several times, it seem more evident to me that the following is true. Because psychiatry is a pseudoscience at best and is totally subjective, your govt and their community nurses can detain and remove peoples freedoms on a subjective basis.
While all the details of what have happened to you seemed to distract me to coming to that conclusion earlier… That does seem to be the problem. If your freedoms are subject to removal based on subjective opinions of character, no one is really free. This leaves a wide open door for corrupt people to act in their own interests. It seems to be an understatement that, that does certainly warrant some attention. Such misgivings of any system of govt are doomed to fail it. Couple it with the degenerative state of psychiatry(lol, more unbalanced chemicals) and you’ve got a real mess.
Have you submitted your story to MiA? It certainly seems to have the correct merits.
I am continually sorry to hear about your story, it seems, like my own the arbitrary nature of why they had to happen eludes reason.
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“Because psychiatry is a pseudoscience at best and is totally subjective, your govt and their community nurses can detain and remove peoples freedoms on a subjective basis.”
Consider this James. there are legal protections from arbitrary detentions (it is a crime to procure the apprehension or detention of a person NOT suffering from a mental illness. s. 336 of the Criminal Code. Penalty is 3 years (?) prison, and Authorised Mental Health Practitoners are told this during their training) though I can, as a result of the way I was ‘treated’ show you how to commit serious criminal offences and get around those protections. In my case the Community Nurse procured a police referral to conceal the fact he couldn’t simply snatch me out of my bed because I was NOT a “patient” of his fine establishment. That protection is called “reasonable grounds”, and so he ‘verbals’ the statutory declarations (not unusual for this to be done here, and they then deny access to remedy particularly when police do it). What I am saying is that the Community Nurse is fully aware of the protections of the law, as he is also aware of how to commit serious criminal offences to get around it. So why is he so comfortable with concealing his acts of torture and kidnapping when he knows it is criminal conduct? Basically he is a rapist and will take what he wants and throw mud at his victims with the assistance of police later. His “the bitch was asking for it’ clear in his Form 1 “reasonable grounds”. Nothing more than fabrications to justify his vile conduct.
Meet the Chief Psychiatrist who is responsible for the protection of the community. His expert legal training doesn’t extend to an understanding of what “reasonable grounds” are, and despite him committing a serious act of misconduct if he doesn’t report, he simply never suspects that anyone in the hospitals would commit such offences.
The Chief Psychiatrist has, without parliamentary approval, rewritten the Mental Health Act to remove the protections afforded the public by the law. I spent months trying to explain to him hiow a burden of proof operate in law, something a first year law student should understand. Of course the delay (14 months in one instance because “the manager was away for Christmas”, which one because there had been two passed in the meantime?) results in the Minister writing the stsute of limitations has expired. Though another tells me there is no statute of limitations on kidnapping and torture.
Point being they simply keep making problems and commit further offences to ensure nothing is done. The Chief Psychiatrist aware of the crimes, but also aware of the fraudulent documents sent to the Law Centre……acts accordingly, until the documents surface showing that he was aware of the crimes, ….. and his failure to report.
“If your freedoms are subject to removal based on subjective opinions of character, no one is really free. This leaves a wide open door for corrupt people to act in their own interests.”
Okay, they ‘spike’ me and I collapse, and obtain a police referral for an ‘assessment’ under s. 195 Police Powers in the MHA.
The Community Nurse must “suspect on reasonable grounds” that the person be an “involuntary patient”. Who should be an involuntary patient is set out in the Act under “Criteria”. There are 4 criteria, the person MUST have a mental illness (defined in s.4 definitions), then they must be a risk (fairly easy to create with a ‘verbal’), and two other lessor criteria. But in my case the Community Nurse did not have a “patient” or a mental illness, and thus no “reasonable grounds” to refer.
The Chief Psychiatrist writes that he need only “‘suspect’ on grounds he believes to be reasonable that the person requires an examination by a psychiatrist”. Two significant misrepresentations of the law there, and please tell me if you can not see them.
(1) the removal of s. 26 Criteria as “reasonable grounds” to detain. Thus any citizen could have a Community Nurse knock on their door (or have police jump them in bed) and be detained because “tomato”. In law, the “reasonable grounds” could be tested using logic and reasoning in court (objectively), but if the “reasonable grounds” are decided by the different Community Nurses then the ‘standard is subjective and can not be tested. This is ‘suss laws’ being enacted without parliamentary approval. The Chief Psychiatrist has effectively removed the protections he is charged with enforcing in the Act. You can’t complain about any detention because they need only ‘suspect’ and there is no burden placed on the detainer before locking anyone up (not just ‘patients’).
(2) the consequences are completely different when you compare the law, and the Chief Psychiatrists rewritten law. In one, the Community Nurse must come to the belief that the person should be incarcerated and force drugged against their will. In the rewritten version, they need only suspect that the person have a chat with a psychiatrist to see if they need to be incarcerated and force drugged. Two very different ‘beliefs’.
Now I have made these matters very clear to the mental Health Law Centre who are supposedly ‘advocates’ and they see no problem with the law being rewritten by the C.P. to remove protections. They see no problem with being provided with fraudulent documents. They see no problem with people defined as “patients” being tortured, assaulted, or any other vile acts that are committed against them, they are, after all, “patients”.
Well, actually I wasn’t, and if you remove the status of “patient” you see what is being called medicine without that status is actually acts of torture and kidnappings, with the exploitation of the loophole in the law.
What was interesting in my case was that they KNEW I wasn’t a “patient” but continued to act as if I was. They tried all sorts of deceptions to have me made into a “patient” post hoc to make their criminal conduct disappear. And well, a few ‘accidents’ with patients are being overlooked where I live, due to doctors being in scarce supply.
So all of the “protections” afforded the public in our laws can be overcome simply by slandering a person as a “patient”. Young women being sexually assaulted in our locked wards (something I have personally witnessed), a report tabled in Parliament, and the Minister says “you can’t listen to them, they’re patients”.
“Have you submitted your story to MiA? It certainly seems to have the correct merits.”
I did speak to someone from here who I asked to assist me in writing it up (and I was prepared to pay for that service). Got to the point where these “human rights abuses” were identified, and I was then thrown under a bus. Too many important criminals involved. This was the point at which I identified the fraudulent documents that had been provided to the Mental Health Law Centre. Purely by accident, in a rush and with a knowledge of the law it became apparent how they had manufactured a false narrative of “patient for ten years was picked up by police, and referred to mental health”. Of course the ‘real’ documents tell an entirely different story. “spiked’ and collapsed, police called to assist with mental patient weilding a knife (to be planted once hey confirm their attendance) cause “acute stress reaction” with violence to coerce the victim into speaking (lest he exercise his right to silence) and then \’verbal’ him upand make it look like a “police referral” to the staff at the hospital when they deliver him there. Senior Medical Officer signs prescription for the ‘spiking’ thus concealing the criminal offences and then ‘chemically restrain’ before he even sees a psychiatrist, and he should be very ill by the time he is ‘assessed’. Though I didn’t have access to the documents while all this was being done, it is patently apparent with what I observed.
And I don’t know that MiA is the right place for my story anyway. My experience has been with criminals pretending to be mental health professionals to conceal their crimes. Raymond Chandler, not Robert Whitakker lol. Though I must say, I do hope someone gains from my experience and realises the lengths these people will go to to conceal their misconduct. They will kill people, commit acts of fraud, slander, threaten and intimidate families and witnesses, and by falsifying records can procure police services in that pursuit.
Nothing I am saying that can’t be checked, it’s just that people tend to look, and then run away. More than happy to provide the proof to anyone who would assist me in writing it up. But it seems the ‘advocates’ are a bit busy trying to get three flavours of Jello on the menu in the locked wards, and will leave the tortures and kidnappings to the people who are doing the torturing and kidnapping to sort out.
They have no defense. These were criminal matters, and just because someone went to the trouble of making it appear to be medicine related does not make it otherwise. What they do with regards punishment is not for me to decide, but at least give me back my stuff and let me leave. Hey, if the National Socialists have got power great, I’m sure they won’t repeat the mistakes of the past. But it’s just not the society I was working towards where public officers threaten known victims of torture and kidnapping with being “fuking destroyed” and will use their positions to achieve that. As a public officer my duty was always to the people who used the buildings I managed. I would have assumed that the same could be said if the Chief Psychiatrist, who I thought would be a man of honor and integrity. Care to see these letters?
Don’t be sorry about what has happened to me. Sure I was ‘killed’ on hearing the words “your being detained under s. 29 of the MHA”, and then fuking destroyed for complaining. But this guy has been enabled by the negligence and acceptance of a cover up by the Chief Psychiatrist, and others have and are being hurt.
I once said to a psychiatrist after telling her my story. You could save more people from harm by simply reporting this man, than you will ever ‘save’ with your drugging of them. Though, like the child raping priests, we need to forgive them, and cross our fingers that they stop raping children at 300 victims.
Anyway James, enough from me. I thought that the bush walking was doing me some good, and then got told last Saturday that one of the guys at the Golf Club had perished with his wife whilst bush walking. (Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’un). I hope that i am as lucky and not being restrained in an E.D. and killed by some doctor who is doing a favour for a friend (and a little cash on the side) for speaking the truth.
As I say, call me mad, but at least do me the favour of basing that opinion after checking what i’m saying, and not because of some preferred narrative.
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So much of this stuff is laughable.
When I turned up in the Police Station with the documents they were going to arrest me for having (my own medical records) one of the threats towards me (and remember this was all witnessed by a Social Worker) was that I would be arrested for the threat to kill.
Lets have a look at that threat. In the original phone call by my wife to the hospital she said there had been a family conflict. That I had threatened to harm a relative of hers (nephew) who had attempted to blackmail her (he was told assertively to stay away from our home). So the Community Nurse has documented this threat to harm before leaving the hospital in his “Outpatient Case Notes” (I’m already a “patient” before he even meets me or has police make the referral they have prepared for?).
So I am asked about this threat towards the nephew by the Community Nurse during his interrogation. My comment, “your three weeks too late”, that was weeks ago and I have no intention of harming him unless he comes round to my home to carry out the threat to bash me in my own home with his “big mates”.
Now, this becomes on the Form 1 referral that he “observed” me having “thoughts of harming others”. First, how did he observe this? And second why did other, become others? Why not say “nephew”, or provide his name, lets say “Ben”? No, lets not be too specific, keep it vague and figurative not literal. Plural not singular. It is after all only the equivalent of sworn court testimony.
However, in his post interview notes, this threat to harm became a threat to kill. Now we really are in the realms of fantasy. Three weeks ago I was angry with someone who tried to blackmail my wife, and I utter some angry words to ensure he stays a away from our home, and this is now being “observed” by a Community Nurse whose conduct I am informed by the Chief Psychiatrist can not be questioned, and I am threatening to kill someone, right before the eyes of two police and three mental health workers?
And then, I am in a police station and am about to be arrested and charged with threats to kill based on this fabrication. Not that the police were going to do anything about the fact I had been ‘spiked’ with benzos without my knowledge (also a crime), but quite happy to charge me for something which was patently false. The documents I had provided showed the ‘progression’ of the fabrications, and given that this is a method regularly used by our police, they would know a ‘verbal’ when they see one.
Amazing when you think about it. Police charging people who are victims of crimes based on information they know to be false and fabricated.
Boans “tries to sort it out with the family, but the family took the nephews side” becomes the observed “thoughts of harming others” becomes threats to kill the nephew. before leaving the hospital, during the interrogation after I was jumped in my bed, and then after returning to the hospital and having police utter with a fraudulent Form 3 to conceal the kidnapping.
The ‘spiking’? I have never taken benzos, and yet here they are creating a history for me by writing prescriptions for a drug I was spiked with to conceal a number of serious offences. Not only that I am being forced to remove my clothes by someone who KNOWS they have no power to make me do so. I get it that he is used to tricking people into thinking he has powers he doesn’t have (it was how he got an interview with me in the first instance, I assumed he was the psychiatrist. Thus he could claim, implied consent) but I specifically refused him the right to touch me or do a physical examination of me (something that I had a right to do given that I had the status of “referred person” under the MHA) Still, locked in a cage, spiked without your knowledge and a bunch of thugs wandering the halls assaulting people for no other reason than they were standing somewhere the staff didn’t like (talk about being in the “Zone” from the movie Stalker. The rules change without notice, when what many of these people require is some form of stability. You can be beaten for doing something one minute, and encouraged to do it the next).
I guess as a Community Nurse it would be good to know that the Chief Psychiatrist has your back on matters of torture and kidnapping. Might even be able to turn a few bucks doing some ‘private moonlighting’, while he deals with any complaints by failing to recognise the laws protecting people from this vileness. Certainly the police here would be doing Uber Eats for Jeffrey Dahmer, and possibly home deliveries for Ariel Castro. Given that they truly are unaccountable, and don’t they let you know it when you try and report criminal conduct in which they find themselves participating in.
And not a soul in this place prepared to even utter a complaint. Well, the Council of Official Visitors did tell me they would speak to the Chief Psychiatrist at their next meeting, but then I got my emails returned saying they had ‘unread’ them, and they couldn’t help me. (I’ve had postal letters returned unopened, but never had someone return my emails and say they hadn’t read it, when they had already acted on the contents of something they didn’t read. Talk about trying to back track, this was ludicrous, though once again people who use their positions to slander the ‘mentally ill’ and conceal their own misconduct) I mean I guess that was a tough meeting asking him why he enabling torture and kidnapping by neglecting his duty. Because these are people whose role is brought into existence by the MHA and have a complete knowledge of the ‘system’, with powers to enter any facility at any time they chose and examine records and documents should they wish to. But……. run away, quick. Your role as defenders of the downtrodden to be abandoned at the first sign of trouble. What, did he threaten to take your government car and fuel card? Advocates? It’s all hot air. Legal loophole found when it was needed huh? But don’t want to defend the protections afforded “consumers, carers and the community” when they are being violated?
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Had the 24th TMS treatment today.
There has been zero positive improvement, only excessive anxiety and worsened symptoms.
I don’t believe there will be a 25th.
What now??
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Howdy BillyWallace67,
I am sorry to hear about the side effects, it sucks, bad. I have talked to around a hundred people now that have been hurt by TMS and most of them stopped treatment before finishing. I can tell you there shouldn’t be any problems with stopping. I have not met anyone that got worse from stopping.
You are certainly welcome to join our facebook group to discuss and see what other members are doing now. We are all facing our issues there together.
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Boans,
“And I don’t know that MiA is the right place for my story anyway. My experience has been with criminals pretending to be mental health professionals to conceal their crimes. Raymond Chandler, not Robert Whitakker lol. Though I must say, I do hope someone gains from my experience and realises the lengths these people will go to to conceal their misconduct. They will kill people, commit acts of fraud, slander, threaten and intimidate families and witnesses, and by falsifying records can procure police services in that pursuit.”
Well we do have the gist of your story, and that is what matters. And you are right, they have no defense, and so they have to make sure that subjects and victims do not either. Best way is to spin a web, which they have succeeded in yet I am not at all convinced that power will go on forever.
They are simply adherents to bias, not science. And that has been verified.
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I keep thinking about this guy Kevin Ibbs who was the target of a ‘set up’ by two women who got together and conspired to basically use police services as their own personal revenge mechanism.
https://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s265381.htm
Just a brief interview with him…… before he hung himself under a bridge.
Imagine my wife and the clinic psychologist get together and plan a ‘set up’, and it was obvious to these people what was going on, but they went ahead with it anyway. Still, when you have doctors signing fraudulent prescriptions to conceal serious criminal offences because ….. oh wait, he is unaccountable. We wouldn’t dare ask why he would commit such a serious offence. Because I was rude to my wife when I realised that she had ‘set me up’? Gee imagine my mental illness appearing at such an opportune moment. Poking a ‘protected’ animal with a sharp stick, and then killing it for it’s response seems a little …….. manipulative.
I mean I get the fact that many people do what they think is best at the time, given the information they have available. That is not what happened here, and it was obvious to the Community Nurse that he was committing serious crimes, though he felt so comfortable that they can conceal ANYTHING given the powers afforded them by the negligence of the Chief Psychiatrist. The distribution of fraudulent documents should be a real concern for my whole community. Consider the consequences of that right claimed by the hospital administrators, that they can remove evidence/proof of serious criminal offences such as torture and kidnapping before providing misleading documents to a persons legal representatives? Is this at all possible within the law in the US? The UK? China? North Korea? I mean we have laws to allow us to examine our records and have any incorrect information put right, but what’s the point when they are fabricating legal narratives to conceal their misconduct? It defeats the whole purpose of the law.
I know that had I evil intent, i’d be signing up for a course in mental health Nursing tomorrow. The possibilities if you can snatch citizens out of their beds and have then dribbling in a cell within an hour truly fascinate me. The Mental Health Act in this manner flushes any and all human rights the community thinks they have right down the Crapper.
I have pondered deeply the issues and I know for a fact that I did not meet the criteria of “patient” as defined by the MHA (an absolute fact, and any evidence to the contrary has been fabricated in the commission of criminal offences. Their conduct alone in trying to make me into a “patient” post hoc says it all, never mind the facts. But the facts don’t suit the powers that be so they ignore the truth in preference of falsehood. We know who they are). And it is patently apparent that others also were aware of that fact, but have available to them criminal conduct that will not be prosecuted because it is not in the public interest. Not in the public interest to ensure that a Community Nurse and police don’t get together and use their positions to torture and kidnap citizens? I’d like to hear their defense on that, but they simply continue to ignore my questions. For example, what drugs can I be ‘spiked’ with that can become my “regular medication” post hic when a doctor notices that it has been done to enable criminal conduct by his colleagues? seems the rest of te community should be aware that in the pursuit of having a mentally healthy community we can be ‘poisoned’ (which is what this actually is, a poisoning of me. the words of a lawyer, not my choice of words). And who is it that can administer these drugs without knowledge to their “patients”? A bus driver, yes, a nurse yes……. you would think that the regulatory body Aust Health Practitoners Regulation Authority who provide the licenses to write prescriptions would know that the Community Nurse can not write a prescription for these drugs, and yet their Full Board has no problem with him engaging in such conduct. ‘spike’ away MR Community Nurse, the authorities have given you that right. And for taking a 2 day community college course (don’t waste your time getting degrees, not needed when the authority lets you do it with no qualifications anyway. but don’t start recommending multivitamins). This point does actually relate to what James is speaking about in this article. The regulatory authority is not only a toothless tiger, they are providing a stalling mechanism to ensure that when people are being harmed, they do nothing and allow further harm. Still, this is doctors making decisions for their colleagues, what would one expect given such a conflict of interest. Maybe they should have a look at the case of Dr Kearsley, he went to prison for a ‘spiking’ and they would know he has the right to prescribe these intoxicating substances? Some consistency would be nice, or is this about using their positions in a corrupt manner to pervert the course of justice? happy to see the likes of Ibbs hanging from a rope under a bridge while they wash their hands of any responsibility? These people are a disgrace to the positions they hold.
I guess one consolation is that it may be the case that the Community Nurse, whilst he may not go to prison for what he has done, may chose to receive ‘treatment’ for his illness (and believe me anyone who would laugh at someone they tortured when they said they would complain is sick). And as he is being brain damaged he will be fully aware that he is going to be ‘fuking destroyed’ for bringing a bad name to his colleagues. And their isn’t a damn thing he can do about it. No wonder he runs crying out to a God he doesn’t believe in (until he needs help). He will soon be back at work committing acts of fraud and torturing/kidnapping citizens. We can’t do without the likes of him. How else are we to deal with public sector misconduct except by poisoning people and calling it medicine?
Ibbs said;
“There is no feeling. I don’t know how I’m supposed to feel. I’ve been exonerated but I’m not jumping up and down for joy. To coin a phrase that I’ve said for a long time, I’m the original living dead – the tissue on the outside’s alive but there’s nothing inside. That’s it. It’s gone for that long that the poison’s just eaten it away.”
And that’s why those with a duty to act, sit on their hands for a s long as they can. They are aware of the way these poisonous acts ‘eat away’ at the victims. Something exploited by the Operations Manager in her gaslighting and attempt to have me commit suicide (with a little help from my wife that is). Your conduct has been duly noted. I no longer wonder why Dante placed Betrayal at the bottom of the circles of Hell.
And the agreement with the clinic that provided the report for the courts? My, my releasing peoples confidential records when they are paying to have them held in confidence. Is it fair to ‘spike’ people to exploit the loophole of “extraordinary circumstances” and release that information without their consent? I’d consider that the commission of an offence in the commission of an offence. Lucky the people whose records are being released aren’t being made aware of it until …. it’s too late and they are dribbling in a cell. And even with that confidential information I was still NOT a “patient” by definition of the MH Act. But the truth doesn’t suit, and he did speak to a psychiatrist. Smoke, meet fire.
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I have been looking for so long to find people who have had the same experience I have had with TMS. Before TMS, although I was severely depressed and anxious, I was an A+ student and seemed to have unlimited motivation and interest in school. But, after TMS, I have yet to pass a class with a B+ or higher. I mainly found that my memory and motivation had taken a severe hit. I was only 16 or 17 at the time, and I think my parents thought that TMS was the last ditch to getting me better, although I had been improving in the months preceding. Even now, about 5-6 years later, I lack the higher brain functions and thinking I once had in my youth. I do not know if also these things have to do with TMS: But, I now where fairly high prescription glasses, that I never needed up until 16, and my migraines have become severe, and at one point I could not even function because of them.
I just wish that they would tell you the truth before you do TMS, because even though I moved past my depression and anxiety, I still feel as if I lost my future.
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AMAP17 –
Thank you so much for commenting and sharing your experience. Your TMS was a long time ago compared with most people i get to talk to, I would love to get your input on the Facebook group if your up for joining. I share a very similar symptomology, I was a type A as well and am still dealing with the cognitive problems. I have not so far developed an ocular injury but that is very common among the group. It is also common with chronic or traumatic brain injury, which i believe TMS is also. Migraines as you can imagine are also very common after TMS. Sometimes even when they have never occurred before but certainly if they were already present they become worse and more frequent.
Furthermore, in your case, Angela Peacock from Medicating Normal just recommended a book to me called, ‘The Brain that Changes Itself’ by Norman Doidge. It explores the science of Neuroplasticity and how the brain can rewire itself to gain back lost function. I haven’t finished it but am incredibly motivated and interested by it so far. This coupled with stories like Jim Kwik’s where cognitive injuries were sustained but were completely recovered from have inspired me to try quite a few different things to overcome the impairment. In the past I could not read at all because it physically hurt but now after being persistent about it I feel i have made some great improvements and that has cascaded into other areas as well. I think reading things that peak your interest is a really big part of recovery even if it is exceedingly slow at first.
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Good Afternoon James,
I want to thank you for your extremely honest, detailed, and thorough description of your experiences with TMS, during and after treatment. I have had a similar experience with painful treatment as well as negative after effects of which were very similar to what you have described. Through sharing of honest information it can be possible to help others who have endured the treatment/effects, as well as help others to make more informed decisions. I hope that you and the others here will fully recover and that we can somehow get the word out to others before they subject themselves to this devastating and ineffective form of “treatment.” We enter treatment after other modalities have been tried for depression, often after decades of suffering. We trust in the skills and competency of those administering the treatment. Briefly….I was in so much pain during my TMS that I actually cried; I can only imagine, based on my reading, that the treatment may have been administered incorrectly by a (new and relatively untrained) supervising doctor. The project coordinator who handled the day to day routines confided to me that my pulse setting was the second highest that he had seen in his time in the TMS center. The supervising doctor had to do the calculations multiple times, as she couldn’t get it right. In the beginning of the treatment and thereafter, I reported the severe pain. Nothing was done. After Week 30/36, I asked if we should even continue, given that my depression scales were actually getting worse as the weeks of treatment progressed. My exact words to the supervising physician were, “I feel as if I have been shaken; I am having trouble remembering things” to name a few. At Week 35/36, I asked the doctor if others had had similar experiences, letting her know that I wasn’t blaming her, but I was in pain and felt shaken. I had hoped to receive some reassurance that I wasn’t alone and that any symptoms were possible but would be temporary. That, I could have lived with. She would not answer the question. I asked the TMS doc for a treatment summary, to be sent to my primary doc; she did not send a summary, but called my PCP – and gave only the name of a psychiatrist. As if the issue with the pain was somehow related to some psychiatric disorder that I was experiencing. At that point, I knew something was really up with the TMS. It may be that the $500 per treatment reimbursed by insurers is an incentive to keep people in the protocol, even when the treatment is painful and not achieving the antidepressant effect. When migraines became more frequent and intense, I consulted a neurologist, who referred me for a neuropsych exam – unknown to us, the neuropsych practitioner was part of the same physician group as the TMS team. The neuropsych lead adamantly explained that there was no evidence that TCS had any negative outcomes; in fact, she had the audacity to tell me that TMS is used to “help migraines and cognition.” I asked her to provide citations and she became visibly flustered and could not provide one, not even the name of a researcher whose body of work focused on TCS outcomes. She would not address my questions, or pain. It was so disheartening to see her attempt to use my depression to explain my symptoms and the blank stare when I pointed out that “The migraines began after the TCS.” All in all, quite similar to the dismissals received by you and some of the other TMS patients who have commented here. Sorry to be cynical but having worked in academic research labs that were federally funded, I saw firsthand the extent to which some behavioral health practitioners will lie (they call it “massaging the data”) to cover up when the results aren’t great. And they’re certainly not above blaming the patient. (During my early career working in an NIH funded research lab, I was turned off from the psychiatric profession, after seeing the manner in which the behavioral health world operated behind the scenes in order to make it difficult for others to be able to understand and hold them accountable for incompetence. I strongly feel that TMS should is dangerous and especially in the wrong hands, should not be allowed to continue. I’m extremely grateful for the willingness of you and the other TMS folks to share information. I’m interested in keeping in touch and should there be class action suits, would willingly testify to what I personally experienced, as well as the manner in which the hospital physician group failed to answer questions or provide any support. Good luck to everyone.
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Why not start a GoFundMe page? I think you guys should stick together, get fundraisers happening and start proceeding ahead.
People are used as experimental subjects, and it is ongoing. There is no way to test brain response or where their invented “problems” are or how to treat them.
I wish people would realize that neurology is in infancy and will be for who knows, maybe forever. Neurology is a rudimentary attempt at “knowing” brain.
We have to do everything we can to at LEAST warn the public. Make the damages known on every “mental illness” AND “mental health” forum, possible.
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I have thought about the gofundme, but am unsure what to leverage the funds for specifically. I have yet to figure out what can be done… a lot of dead ends and no one willing to help in the professional community. Curious what you think about that.
Id like to say your thoughts on neurology are very very important. The first thing my good neurologist said to me when i spoke to him was, we know less than 1 percent about the brain, in all of neurology. So we will do what we can but everything is experimentation. One reason i stuck with him was because he was the first Dr. to be honest with me. This same Dr told me he believed his primary function was simply to diagnose and educate his patients on what they could do to help themselves(healthy lifestyle) because any medications he could give would be harmful to any neurological condition. He also told me about the pressure he is under to give out medication because all of his patients expected them.
The reason this point and fact is so incredibly important is that Dr’s swear to do no harm, and the willful negligence of that fact is inappropriate in every way and has equally and proportionate harm to their patients. While these physicians do have things they can do and knowledge they can share with patients that is not harmful, they choose to do that which they are unsure of and that they know has a likelihood of harm – and of course this applies even more firmly to psychiatry. This simple fact is the only necessary reason to completely rethink and reconstruct everything we have medically established to treat the human nervous system.
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I really have no clue on how to raise funds other than you all stick your heads together and research different methods of fundraising and also call around for lawyers.
Then there is the dilemma of who looks after the funds.
You have a great neurologist! I also got luck with a Neuro some 30 years ago and my interest was heightened when he told me that an MRI was already outdated when it was invented.
His words were what opened my eyes to “science”, how very limited it is, yet how impressed we remain.
Your Neuro is not under pressure to give out meds. However he IS under pressure to find out what is wrong and then know how to fix it. That has been presented to the public. The public should have been informed LONG ago about “science”.
Another outrageous thing they came up with is “conversion disorder” and Neuros regularly participate in this, which is connected to psych and “get out of my office”.
Nothing we can do about these lies. Liars are born and educated every second.
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Well said Sam – very interesting about the MRI as well. There are so many things that are puzzling about the medical model in its current state. Many things just don’t make sense.
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They only make sense when we assume the objective is making money. If we assume the objective is helping people get better, of course, it all seems bizarre. But in terms of turning a profit, it’s all quite logical and effective.
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Good call Steve.
It seems money is a universal corruptor, it used to be power or both, Money usually being the ability to purchase some sort of power, even power over your personal life that you would not otherwise have. Very powerful stuff, something interesting i thought of though is that this desire for money seems to exist more seriously in a context where there is a lack of community. The good people that i have known seem to be well supported by others and find a very high sense of value contributing back to their communities and place little to no value on money. Took me awhile to find that it existed at all, but it seems sometimes you only find things when you know what you are looking for.
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I think you are right – as communities deteriorate, money becomes more important, and greed more prevalent. The Luddites got it right!
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Thanks for that reference Steve.
Had no idea about the Luddites, has proved some very interesting reading. Seems their livelihood was shuttered to make way for advancing technology, which makes sense on some level but when it ends up exploiting communities and workers, it lands us with problems like the ones psychiatry presents.
It seems if we have stable communities focused on the fair and appropriate use of technology all the members of that community can keep their livelihood, trade, way of life and most importantly their ability to contribute to their community – people think its the lack of ability to provide for yourself or family that is so detrimental, and it is, but equally if not more detrimental is the inability to no longer contribute to the wellbeing of others in your community. It is this exploitation of community that pushes us towards answers like psychiatry… well meaning people pushed into alienation and a lack of community just so someone else can profit from new tech. Someone could easily think technology is the enemy but it may rather be the employment of that tech by greedy and unkind individuals that create a void of unnatural consequence filled by ‘mental health’ problems. This is the exploitation of community, the person left to fend for themselves as a byproduct of profiteering by another person or entity. While this has created these raging murderous institutions like psychiatry, it has also conversely inhibited the great potential of our people – if we leveraged the brilliance of everyone around us and then appropriately utilized available technologies our potential would be limitless.
It seems the simple difference between unconscionable failure and unfettered success is just our indifference to one another.
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Very well said!
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“I have yet to figure out what can be done… a lot of dead ends and no one willing to help in the professional community.”
Couple of points to consider James.
Lawyer X in Australia has revealed the corrupt nature of our court system. A high profile criminal lawyer acting as a police informant, resulting in more than a 1000 criminal convictions that need to be overturned. I note this is common practice when the State finds itself in breach of the Convention against the use of Torture or doing arbitrary detentions. The people charged with ‘protecting’ the public work and collude with the State to ensure that no action can be taken. They “edit” documents and threaten people to obtain silence. And of course what lawyer is going to advise you to continue down a path where you will be taking on a mafia? I would suggest they will want payment up front before you are unintentionally negatively outcomed. (not unlike the psychiatrist who when I said I was having suicidal thoughts, said I would need to pay in advance)
My suggestion. Admire the cancerous growth within ‘medicine’ for what it is. It’s a beautiful thing that will ultimately destroy it’s host and thus itself. You can’t stop it, but you can profit from it. Sure it is ugly to see people being enslaved and harmed deliberately, but if you have the stomach for it there is money to be made.
Forget looking to the law for a solution. Too late, the cancer has spread there long ago. My ‘legal representatives’ were nothing more than informants for the State to ensure their human rights abuses went unnoticed by providing the State with information to conceal their vile acts, and then use the mental patient to [truth removed to stop the messenger being shot] Police not able to find their copy of the Criminal Code and prepared to arrest and refer the victim of State sanctioned torture to the people who tortured me for ‘treatment’. And yet I watch as a Serial Killer is sentenced to life in prison, though he can refuse to speak to a psychiatrist and his rights are respected (unlike mine which resulted in me being drugged, snatched from my bed, kidnapped and ‘verballed’ before a Doctor signed a prescription to conceal the Police and Community Nurses vile deeds). I feel certain Police may find grounds they consider to be reasonable (as opposed to the legal protection ignored by the Chief Psychiatrist of “suspect on reasonable grounds”) to make a referral of such criminal accused to ‘friendly’ doctors [see for example the Senior Medical Officer who signed a prescription 12 hours after I was ‘spiked’ and made them my “regular medications” to conceal the criminal offences and torture by police who subjected me to ‘coercive interrogation at my home before dropping me off for a ‘chemical restraint’) given the letter I have here from the Minister for Mental Health authorizing arbitrary detentions and torture? You may refuse to answer questions from police, but that is grounds for a referral to mental health services and they will begin ‘treatment’ until you do answer the questions. So much for your right to silence lol
Ten years on and they were open about the threat to ‘fuking destroy’ me for complaining. Still haven’t seen my daughter or grandchildren (though I note some complain about not seeing their families for months because of COVID and may possibly have all that is needed to snatch them from their beds and force drug and electrocute them). But the idea of the justice system taking it’s course is a joke. Not a soul could defend these “edited” documents as not being an act of criminal fraud by a public officer so……. simply deny access to the justice system. What criminal code…… and thus what lawyer would dare touch something the State has shat all over to conceal the fact they are using the hospital as a franchised torture centre?
Learn to love it I say. Encourage their corruption, because if they are punished then they may just be forgiven (though I can not see how God would forgive the systematic ‘outcoming’ of vulnerable individuals, but not my decision to make, it’s the States)
I saw an Australian man stuck in China as a result of COVID speaking about his terror at the fact the government could simply come to his home, take his temperature and if it was too high, he could be dragged away to a hospital and forced to be among sick people. I didn’t even have a temperature the day I was snatched from my bed by police, I was simply asleep as a result of being ‘spiked’ with a date rape drug, evidence fabricated, kidnapped and then when I complained????? Though I guess that it is such a common event here the ‘system’ knows how to deal with the victims, “edit” the reality and then use them for gain.
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And the bit that really gets to me is that the Minister and the Principle of the Law Centre (who conspired to pervert and do a cover up while the original criminals made ‘alternative arrangements’ for me) cheated not just me, but the whole International Community who are trying to actually help people who are suffering from the effects of trauma. And they continue to conceal the truth and allow the cancer to spread rather than face the facts. Disgraceful.
A human rights organisation, and a ‘protection’ from human rights abuses is engaging in cover ups of torture and kidnappings? Sure, sounds too good to be true (aka they wouldn’t do that), but I note not a soul bothered to check if what I am saying is the truth or not, and those that have soon turned their backs and ran. Advocates or hypocrites?
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Just a taste of what to expect if you do engage legal representation.
I went to a large law firm associated with a woman who had a movie made about her, and who claims to ‘help the little guy’ (aka me).
I provided them with the unredacted documentation showing that I was ‘spiked’ with benzos and then ‘verballed up’ on a Form after being unlawfully detained and referred by police to the Community Nurse. I went to great lengths to explain the situation to these lawyers in the hope that I may, just may, stop someone else from being harmed by these people.
After a short period of time I received a phone call explaining that they could not assist me and that the ‘spiking’ had been authorised by my doctor. I asked who this doctor was, and was told they could not tell me who my doctor was because of confidentiality. It is patently obvious on the documentation from Triage that I was NOT a “patient” and therefore HAD NO DOCTOR. Such negligence when the first item on the agenda for a lawyer should be to establish my status and who my doctor was. Of course the truth in this situation is not the preferred one, and if the Chief Psychiatrist actually knew what a burden of proof was (and was not authorising ‘spikings’ of citizens and arbitrary detentions using unlawful police referrals [they do not meet the “reasonable grounds standard set out in the MH Act] A letter I am pleased to have, and one that even the defenders of the mentally ill have had to ‘unread’ to ensure that these arbitrary detentions and torture can continue without interruption. Care to see the letters?) he would also have recognised the crimes before anyone else got hurt but ……..
So I can’t know who my doctor is? Why on earth would that be the case? Of course none of this put in writing because well, the fact is that they had documented proof of crimes right under their noses, but did not wish to actually do anything that would see the criminals held to account. They must of course have been shaking their heads at the incompetence of the State sanctioned cover up. They usually remove the crimes before telling law firms to throw their clients under a bus given that the action is no ‘civil’ rather than criminal as a result of the “editing” (read criminal fraud. Note that the documents are to be provided to my legal representative unredacted to protect human rights, and yet the Chief Psychiatrist despite the procedure being followed fails to recognise that his own “Operational Directive” is being breached to conceal torture and kidnapping) of the truth.
Plausibly deniable? No, and in fact they have provided assistance to people who have gone on to harm others. But gee they sure had me convinced that they cared about the little guy there for a moment. And well, as I say not prepared to put anything in writing, and the lawyer I spoke to no longer works at this law firm they tell me. Of course this also creates more work for me, someone they are fully aware of being already traumatised from being subjected to torture and kidnapping. Only assistance these people are giving the ‘little guy’ is to kick them in the face while they are down. They are acting according to what they are told to do by the very people who are committing the offences.
Keep it in mind should you chose this path. I get the feeling they actually enjoy the gaslighting, the feeling of being on the side that never loses a much needed boost to their ego. Because when the State can “edit” torture and kidnapping out of legal narrative and then ‘dispose’ of the complainant, believe me, they never lose. The unintended negative outcomes become another cover up of their cover up. Remove the motive and the rest falls into place. And with a Minister who says “You can’t listen to them, they’re mental patients” what chance do you have once falsely ‘flagged’ as a nut job or window licker by police [their DSM only has two diagnoses at the Police Station, and No copy of the Criminal Code once your diagnosed]. They are now protecting and serving the interests of organised criminals, and your well…. outcomed.
Note that the original legal represenatives gave the State the opportunity to retrieve the documents I had before submitting the fraudulent set to them, so they could then ensure the outcome the State wanted to be true. The other law firm were presented with the ‘real’ set of documents and thus didn’t get the chance to have the ‘fraudulent’ set of documents submitted to them before ensuring the States outcome [hence the need to fabricate a reason to not render assistance aka my non-existent doctor]. They actually saw the crimes, the Law Centre ensured they didn’t once they engaged in a conspiracy to conceal the torture and kidnapping with the State (for their funding being increased, or was that just a coincidence?)
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Points taken Boans. Thank you for sharing all this detail, at least it will benefit others who are able to read it.
While i am surprised at how incredible the lengths taken to neutralize you, overall i am not too surprised because i have started to see the same common themes emerging with almost all the lawyers i have been talking to. I have also heard from alot of thers now andf thier misfortunes in that realm, it seems almost impossible to avoid. I just talked to a gent the other day who had a lawyer to help him with an issue and then he was harmed medically and the lawyer dropped him from everything… Dropped because someone else harmed him, what the hell!?! This makes no sense and it seems the only way it could have taken place is if there was collusion with the drs and some sort of money making scheme. Its really frightening when this is what justice looks like… We wonder why so many horrific problems exist and human tragedies, but you dont have to look very far do you.
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AliciaCondon –
Wow, it was really fantastic reading your comment here. You are really dialed in to exactly what is happening with this treatment. I just cant believe that all the same things are happening to all of us, the injury, the fraud and so on. If you haven’t experienced it yourself, or knew that hundreds of others had, you might not believe it.
You may be surprised to know that i have spoken to quite a few people who are in tremendous physical pain during the treatments, so much they can barely stay in the chair and they actually begin screaming. Migraines have also become a common thing i hear about and seem particularly unpleasant, even for people who have never experienced one.
There also seems to be a large amount of malpractice with it, meaning that the technicians just have no idea what the hell they are doing, and neither do the accompanying Drs. I have heard many reports, where I knew the procedure had been done completely incorrectly. Even in these situations, the same gaslighting and fraud occurs where the physicians or techs urge the patients to work through the pain and they will get better. I cant really imagine being fully aware i did not know whether i was doing something appropriately or not – it causing someone else immense pain – and then asking them politely to just hold on while i continue to do it for weeks after that.
What an unethical neuropsych as well, it is really easy for them to under report your subsequent cognitive tests to try and minimize the damage they did to you. I am sorry you had to go through that.
I am really interested in your medical research experience as well and that you are keen on the data massage trick. I was asked to do that in the corporate world at a fortune 5 company often, and it was a common practice. At the end of the day I always thought, this is just anecdotal data that is for useless metrics that have nothing to do with people or their health. I had no idea that this was being done in regards to peoples health in the medical community as well. That is truly horrifying, as you can use it to justify anything really, administering a treatment or getting massive govt dollars for a project. The implications are so disturbing.
I think its a brilliant idea if we could stay in touch. The easiest way is through the facebook group VTAG, mentioned at the end of my article, but if that does not work, we can use other methods. Just respond here and let me know if your interested.
And lastly – I am sorry this happened to you, it sucks hearing from each new person i meet that this happened. I wish you a speedy recovery.
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I am utturly shocked by the TMS advocates in these coments. Their comments are junk science at there worst. It reminds me of the kind of “science” proposed by homeopathy or dowsing. You cannot map the mind with any kind of electric stimulation to show which bits cause u happiness and then use any kind of electromagnectic stimulation to clear brain pathways so that new and nicer ones form. This is dangerous junk science.
If you really could clear brain pathways then you could by accident clear the ones that say what someones name is or where they live. Then they may decide they are called simething else or live next door.
If you really believe TMS clears brain pathways you are saying it causes brain damage and that brain damage stops people feling miserable. Lets hope real doctors see that for the dangerous sham it is.
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John H,
I think you bring up an excellent point and thought. Science just has no idea in the first place what emotions come from where. While they may see certain connections – like, ohhh wow, this person is experiencing happiness and this part of thier brain is lighting up… unfortunately correlation is not causation and beyond that, what one person experiences or what we can even prove in one person or one test subject means nothing compared to the next, it could be completely different, even if you found similarities across subjects.
This is the gap we are taught to jump, believing science that is not proven to be real, nor is it likely to be real, just because what we see, seems to suggest it. Honestly, i fell for the trap as well. When i was younger i understood that a pill could not give you happiness or any other human emotion because it was elicited originally from experiences and a million other factors and has nothing to do with a foreign chemical being introduced into the brain and while we may be able to simulate some sensation or distract the mind with another or the lack there of, it does not translate in any way to what we need or desire for ourselves, and thats where the trap is laid, we are asked to believe in something that is not true in the first place… Meds dont cure depression, anxiety or other ailments, just like electrical current or waves cannot either. Sure they may distract us with other discomforts or sensations but there is no way now or ever they could serve us in a healthy capacity. These ideas are too readily accepted and cause immense damage to our families and communities.
I share the same hope that Dr’s will see it for what it is, but i have seen the vast majority of them fall for it already… but i have met a few that did not, and believed my own story, i was impressed because it has not been common.
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At the most TMS is a sophisticated placebo procedure. Expensive treatment requiring assessment by a well paid expert, big impressive machine that makes muscles move by magic that you are told calibrates the machine to your particular brain, then treatments that are expensive with the machine and technicians every day for a few weeks and which cause people to feel disorientated, maybe have headaches and such like discombobulation. Who wouldn’t feel better for a while with all that attention? Just as long as you don’t get the brain damage…..
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I think you’ve really nailed it John. I have yet to find that it is much more than that although others seem to insist that it is. And yet these folks do not follow up on long term efficacy or effects. Maybe they are not interested in seeing if their treatment actually worked after they have gotten paid or seen the results they anticipated or were looking for.
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James and all, You might want to see this video which may shed more light on what is going on and what is planned around current and future “evidence -based public and mental health treatment”.
https://youtu.be/cNJRP2PkYCM
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Thank you for Sharing Dawn, This looks incredibly interesting, although i see it is 3 hrs. so it will take me a bit to get to it, i am already excited to take a look. The comments make it look interesting as well.
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Hi James,
I have a good friend that just underwent tms in the last few months. She is experiencing almost exactly the same symptoms. I sent her the articles but would greatly appreciate if there is a way she could contact you directly. Possibly through email?
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Eflores,
I had Steve reach out so we could get in touch, but I have not heard back in a bit. Of course I am more than happy to correspond.
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Hey how’s it going James I went through this tms nonsense in december of 2019 and had only 2 treatments and never felt the same ever since. I was wondering if you have an email I can contact you with? Reading your 2 articles on this thing I feel a bit of hope now. You are the only person I can relate to on this topic. Thanks a lot man!
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Comancho7,
Hope you are doing alright. Thank you so much for reaching out. I just sent an email to your user name listed here, assuming that is correct. I would be glad to give you the information for the group and help with anything I can.
I am glad these articles have given you some hope. Together we can try and make some progress and help others.
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Also how can I get access to your facebook group as I really want to know solutions at this point?
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Thank you for your frank assessment. In 1996 I had 19 ECT sessions with results similar to your TMS. My short term memory suffered devastating dysfunction. I lost my job at nationally known medical center where I had worked 12 yrs. I was arrested twice for gun possession, and I was not even aware I had purchased a gun and have never had any interest in guns before. I attempted suicide 3 times. My husband divorced me and I ended up living with my parents well into my 40’s. It took years for me to be able to live independently. In 2021 I still have memory problems. Often going completely blank if the slightest bit anxious. To top it all off, my depression was not helped at all. I appreciate your review of TMS because I am about to start seeing a psychiatrist at a center that pushes TMS. Forewarned is fore-armed.
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DCROY9633,
So glad I could help. Forewarned IS fore-armed, very well put.
Incredibly sorry to hear about your experience with ECT, and the subsequent misadventures. I really learned so much about what happened to me by observing and engaging the ECT survivor community. It’s more than intriguing how many similarities there are. This is the first time someone has told me that they go blank with the slightest bit of stress(I think its common we just don’t talk about it much). That is a very major component of my struggles, when emotions are high and i am suddenly under a lot of stress, I lose virtually all cognitive function.
I am glad you were able to live independently, I am curious if you feel you have progressively been able to heal despite still having issues? That’s a big question for a lot of us that are new to this, we are struggling to figure out if we will improve or not.
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If you lost your job due to your employer perceiving a disability why didn’t you fight it? That is clearly illegal under ADA.
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okboomer,
Excellent question. After consulting with counsel, we found out that I had signed documents when I was terminated that relinquished most of my rights to legal action in order to get some compensation for them letting me go. Counsel still offered to take the case, but said it would be extremely emotionally draining and take a year or more, and I would only get a very small amount of compensation, maybe a month or two’s salary. I asked if I was entitled to Punitive damages because it was an ADA claim and they said yes, but judges just do not grant those damages, they always refuse them.
When I aggregated all these factors, including being within the first year of my TMS injury and trying to figure out how I would keep myself alive in the coming months, i decided not to pursue it even though it was still a very hard decision. Another part of that decision was that i wanted to spend any time I could pursuing legal action against the manufacturer, which I have. I determined at that time I would much rather pursue something that benefits others in the long run, with the manufacturer suit.
I faced another stark reality, abuses by employers against disabled persons happens very very commonly and even if disabled persons take legal action they are granted very little compensation. Counsel also advised me that she had spent significant time litigating the company I worked for in the past and that it was very clear it would be a protracted battle as they spend as much time and money needed trying to muscle out anyone that makes a claim against them, and its very arduous for opposing counsel. I will give my counsel credit for that, she offered to go after them simply for the fight and without the chance of any real profit, that was her thing and I think it was quite cool.
Pretty sad to acknowledge the reality that Large corporations spend exorbitant amounts of money trying to avoid compensating wrongful termination and ADA claims against them, pretty savage. Far more money than they would pay out in the claims to disabled and disenfranchised individuals.
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I’m disabled so that is disappointing to hear. Once again money overpowers what is right.
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Can’t argue with that, I am starting to see a theme. I am not pretending to know the answer, but it seems we have discovered a serious flaw with capitalistic medicine… and beyond.
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I’m really hoping you’ve had some improvement James! I pray for your recovery
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curious 090,
Thank you so much for the kind words and efforts! Hoping I do make a recovery some day.
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I’d like to think on your side.
Let me start by saying, I am not an expert, but I’ve done some research since I read your post, and I have an observation that might be interesting to you:
It seems that the goal of TMS is to strengthen some circuits (excitation) and tamper down some circuits (inhibitory). It seems that there are different subtypes of depression, each with a different pattern of overactive and underactive circuits. Therefore, if we apply the same treatment to all four types, wouldn’t it make sense that it will work for some, and not for others? In fact, wouldn’t make sense that we might be exciting an already over-excited brain region for a certain type, and now things become this much worse? To me it sounds like giving blood pressure lowering medication to those with high blood pressure, and those with low blood pressure, expecting both to get better, when in fact some will get better, and some will get worse
I strongly encourage you to watch those two presentations on this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAcNJTYllYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRonj_PEQ1g
A hypothesis
What if in your treatment where things became worse, you received emphasis on the wrong side of the brain, or using the wrong stimulation frequency (excitation vs inhibition)? Couldn’t that mean that receiving the opposite signal, and then fixing the actual part of the brain that needed fixing in the first place could make you better?
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts
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In recent months this theory has been brought to my attention. It is quite interesting, especially given the things i have seen and heard in relation to people who have been harmed by TMS. I have seen people so incredibly anxious after TMS that they no longer sleep and have developed POTS, which even led to heart failure, and this has lasted well beyond a year without any noticeable dissipation. I have also observed the opposite, patients so depressed and fatigued that they can no longer exercise, think, or even really get out of bed much or take care of themselves. They have even had tests come back showing serious impediment to their metabolism, also lasting years. This lends credibility to these hypotheses on the inhibitory and excitatory effects of TMS, and while this proves exciting for those looking to reverse the effects there are some serious objections that would have to be overcome. There is also the matter of the other symptoms that present as well, the neuromuscular problems, migraines, cognition problems etc. these all present along side the excitatory and inhibitory symptoms so they are a very large fly in the soup of this theory that this is even a static observable and repeatable feature of TMS, it could simply be a variable manifestation of harm being spread across different areas of the brain, which is largely random due to the huge water content and differences in density of brain matter across patient populations. We may see commonalities in the way treatment is applied but it does not mean that the inhibitory and excitatory effects are exclusive to this exact way TMS is applied, although I am sure many clever scientists would insist its true.
The first is that all of these effects are subordinate to physics. Electromagnetic waves are inherently dangerous to the brain, body and its workings. The magnetic energy has been proven to be harmful especially at this intense level and rapidly alternating electrical fields of this magnitude have proven even more harmful. They inextricably cause irreversible electroporation at small levels of amperage and TMS is done at incredibly higher levels. If this procedure causes cell death, harms and dysregulates other cellular processes, there is no practical point in entertaining this as a treatment let alone a further application to reverse damages already done. It is guaranteed to do additional damages. While some may argue that this would be preferable under certain circumstances, like trading one set of symptom improvement for worsening others, i would argue that is a slippery slope and offers high risk with little to no chance of reward, is not a worthy course and violates the, now a days elusive, ‘Do no harm’ approach.
Second, is the rational problem with TMS and the subsequent problem reversing problems generated by it with the same treatment. I have not found any evidence that TMS is even effective in treating depression, anxiety or any other human unpleasantness, so there is little reason to believe the ideas about inhibitory and excitatory effects. While this may be a controversial idea, its an evidence based one, there are no trials of good quality and size that are not funded by industry money that have shown TMS can be more effective placebo. Furthermore I have only met one or two persons who said TMS helped them and they had no side effects, out of hundreds of others who have had no help or have been harmed, so my known pool of experiential evidence tells me the same. The therapeutic mechanism of TMS is also unknown, no one can directly explain how TMS effects patients favorably for any given condition. So, while scientists and medical professionals present their own brand of evidence that TMS can have this inhibitory or excitatory effect on the brain, it is hardly reliable and has not been proven in an objectively provable way, along with any other aspect of TMS.
In conclusion, what we do know is that fundamental physics tell us TMS does damage to the brain and CNS, also that we know very little about the brain generally speaking, and claims about TMS are highly unreliable because TMS scientists are poorly informed and interested in furthering their own work and not patient outcomes. Given all these facts, the claims we are looking at are likely not true, outcomes have a high level of uncertainty and a higher likelihood of failure or further injury.
I really do get the draw of this fanciful idea that medical science is so advanced we can whip up some invisible fields and cure any unpleasantness in our lives. However it is a dangerous draw not because we humans aren’t brilliant or because we have not made large strides in treating acute trauma, but moreover because the brain and CNS are so incredibly complex and as such we are far too arrogant and intent on profiteering in our endeavors to create safe and effective medical interventions to them. To put it another way the more I learn, the less I believe in the simplicity of the claims of simply exciting certain parts of the brain or inhibiting others(I have seen opposite reactions in both cases), I think that is a really huge oversimplification of what is happening, it could be an observed generalization but its really not a fair description of what is actually taking place, just because people undergoing physiological harm to their brain can generally only be in an anxious or depressed state, doesn’t mean that TMS can accurately cause an excitatory or inhibitory effect and as such I am highly skeptical any problems could be rectified in that way.
I see these Youtube videos are fairly long, I will make some time to take a look soon. Thank you very much for sharing this information, the more we learn the better off we are and I especially am always learning more about these topics every day. If I have any additional thoughts change based on the videos I will respond again.
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Agree with you James.
The TMS people seem to think the brain is a simple thing.
Why is it then that neurologists can’t help people? They are the experts on brains, yet really, the knowledge is pretty rudimentary.
Hypothesis is not something to practice on brains, EVEN if it helps a few. There is just no way that fooling around with the machinery only affects one “target”.
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It has been brought to my attention that there is a thing called “Havana Syndrome” inflicted upon US diplomats (and CIA assets) in Cuba, China, and now in Washington DC.
The symptoms are intensely familiar to those of us who have heard the complaints about TMS.
I’ve been thinking about Havana Syndrome in the context of TMS & ECT, and thinking about – how easy it is to weaponise these things. We all know that microwaves & EMF are not great for the brain & body tissue. It’s easy to make a thing to destroy something. Just blast it.
How much harder then, is it to target a thing like this for healing? Like Sam says, this machinery doesn’t only affect a specific target. There would be collateral damage. EVEN if you aimed to excite vs. inhibit, or this or that part of the brain. It’s not brain surgery, and even brain surgery is not entirely precise – there is usually collateral damage.
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Quite Right Sam, I am almost done with these Youtube videos and I am quite concerned about the hypothesizing going on and its lack of practical application and its lack of emphasis on patient safety.
JanCarol – You are on it, I have a strong feeling this tech was used to inflict harm quite awhile ago, and the fact that we are hearing about it being used in this way now indicates its is being used very often and in a wide scope of operations, as in the past i am sure it did not make it into the media. I am sure it does not hurt the usage profile that it causes cognitive impairment and probably increases suggestibility while it is causing damages. Interesting side note, someone reached out and told me the DOD had gotten ahold of this and was working with it a long time ago, we know it was being utilized by the VA over 20 years ago, so you can imagine how and why that came to be. No real way to substantiate these things of course but what we do know of history certainly lends to the consideration that it may well be true.
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JanCarol –
I just reread this comment after quite some time and i just wanted to say that it turns out Havana Syndrome is virtually identical to TMS injury.
A friend of mind send me a host of documents after reading my second article and seeing similarities. It turns out they could vary well be the same thing just with a different applicator or method but inherently the same damage is being caused. The injuries shared in released documents match TMS injury all but identically.
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Hi James,
I just read the wiki page on Havana syndrome and whilst I understand that your comparing the outcomes, and not the causes, I thought i’d direct your attention to the result of the Team B ‘investigations’ talked about it this documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsh6F6gMch0
The whole thing worth watching but ….see Prof. Pipes talking at about 27 mins about how they simply make shit up and then start believing their own lies. Something along the lines of “the lack of evidence is proof that they have these weapons and are using them” lol.
Not unlike psychiatric diagnosis really. “potential for violence but no clear intent or actual history” becomes justification for incarceration and forced drugging into a brain damaged state to ensure that their paranoid delusions do not materialise. A ‘first strike’ police by mental health services oughtta work right?
Anyhow, take a look at the Team B conclusions and compare them to the claims being made with Havana syndrome causes.
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Howdy Boans,
I hope you are as well as you can be.
The lack of evidence perspective was particularly interesting as you said. I have run into similar mentalities and have noticed it in observance of myself. In the absence of anything observable, the void is likely filled with projection. An aggressive western state will project aggression just like a cheating spouse will accuse the other partner of cheating themselves. I have to admit i think this usually plays out if an entity is looking for something – likely power of some sort. A particularly unnerving dimension of humanity.
Most of us see what we want to see. Those who can see reality are in the extreme minority.
I think the difference may be character. I think those of us who quest to improve themselves and not others are likely to determine the true nature of reality. As we are really only able to understand the world through the lens of things we have observed and understood for ourselves. If we spend time reflecting on that it can be great, if not it will likely be very little. What are your thoughts?
Psychiatric diagnosis and approaches focus so much on others and not the one making the diagnosis, it is rife with incredibly dangerous paradoxes and fallacies. Certainly the strike first mentality takes a strong hold. Self preservation should be a high priority when your poisoning and controlling someone else.
The team B conclusions are very interesting, if you observe intelligence operations for long enough a pattern emerges and I am not sure its that difficult to understand that the aims are always the same and it can be fairly easy to see through, although others may tell us otherwise, hahaha.
I have included some quality evidence below if your interested. I call it quality evidence not because i trust the sources, but because they match my lived experience and the hundreds of people i have now spoken to about this type of injury.
Its all just a validation of the truth, and once you’ve seen it and felt it – you cant be fooled any longer. The lies are for those who weren’t there and don’t know what its like.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25889/an-assessment-of-illness-in-us-government-employees-and-their-families-at-overseas-embassies
https://www.engr.wisc.edu/news/research-points-to-microwave-attack-as-havana-syndrome-cause/
https://havanasyndromecryout.com
https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1061559548743/EHS%20Mechanisms%20YS%20IU.pdf
http://media.withtank.com/cc4add65b6/emf-vgcc-jcmm.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599?via%3Dihub
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Heya James,
thanks for the reply. Ten years ago today I was snatched out of my bed after some people set me up to be tortured and kidnapped (and then a bunch of public officers have ensured that they will not be held accountable by perverting the course of justice) and it’s been a time to reflect.
I think your on the money with the projection. I know I certainly projected evil intent onto a lot of people who were, after all, simply trying to ensure that their wrongdoing wasn’t exposed. And I guess when your husband is a psychiatrist, calling the ‘problem’ a ‘patient’ to police to have them delivered to be killed with a little ‘accident’ is not necessarily evil, just practical (if you have the stomach for it that is). Especially once you realise that the State is “editing” documents to ensure that such misconduct goes unchecked, and that human rights abuses may be obvious to a population being brutalised but …. ya can’t prove it with the fraudulent documents hahaha.
You write; “I think the difference may be character. I think those of us who quest to improve themselves and not others are likely to determine the true nature of reality. As we are really only able to understand the world through the lens of things we have observed and understood for ourselves. If we spend time reflecting on that it can be great, if not it will likely be very little. What are your thoughts?”
I know from where I look now I look back and think about the people who I tried to warn about the way the State was finding ways around the protections afforded by our laws (or supposed protections. When the person who has a duty to protect human rights is uttering with fraudulent documents to ensure they DON’T do their job, and the legal representatives of those having their human rights abused are prepared to accept fraudulent documents and then turn a blind eye at the request of the State while they ‘tidy up their little mess’ using psychiatry as a justification (is it really psychiatry if they are using it to kill and maim? Or is the intention of the profession something a little more honorable? [Hi to the people at the Mental Health Law Centre by the way, and whoever wrote that letter purporting to be from the Chief Psychiatrist]). Point being, there are many people now complaining about the loss of their human rights while police simply batter them in the streets to ensure their compliance until they can change the laws to make their criminal conduct lawful. I delivered the message and warned, as was my duty. Not for me to project and predict COVID and the resulting rise of National Socialism (strangely this State passed laws in 2016 allowing the forced vaccination of ANYONE a doctor signed a ‘warrant’ for, allowing them to be stripped naked and injected without their consent. See s. 158 of the Public Health Act)
I think looking at the documentary I posted as a whole, I started to realise that like the politicians Curtis describes losing their relevance due to not being able to provide the dreams they had been promising in the 1950s etc, they turned to the power of nightmares, to have the populations turn to them for ‘protections’. have doctors not taken the same path? Where is the cure for cancer? Diabetes? Asthma? Watch the documentary carefully and consider that question. They have made a grab at power with a nightmare……. covid19. People who were ‘health managers’ are now thrust into the spotlight, the public now needs them, and will pull grannys gold teeth out with rusty pliers to pay them.
And of course what I see is that with the nightmare that has returned power to the medical fraternity, is that the increase in the levels of fear has resulted in a bonus for ‘mental health’. Maybe they won’t need to be calling police and lying that people are their ‘Outpatients’ to have them subjected to ‘acute stress reactions because no one wants to talk to the ‘public torturers’ at that place they try to call a hospital. It’s more like a silencing unit for the State (and other ‘associated’ professionals see for example the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. How many of their victims ended up being drugged and slandered every time they tried to speak the truth?). Consider that these child rapists were not held to account, or reported (well, I suppose their was “insufficient evidence” which is the term used here when police fail to act and are cutting some slack for a mate) because their crimes were seen as being “character flaws”.
I digress, but I hope I’ve answered at least part of your question. Others here do it so much better than a tired worn out torture victim.
I like that you write; “The lies are for those who weren’t there and don’t know what its like.”
In my case the lies were done by people who were there, and enjoy watching what it’s like. When it is being done to others that is. Start with that one lie told by the Community Nurse who knew I had been ‘spiked’ with a date rape drug and was unconscious in my bed. “I need some help with a patient Officers”. And the consequences of such a lie and if the ‘target’ isn’t compliant? Consider being able to point a finger at anyone and tell police you would like them prepared for a mental health assessment that was a foregone conclusion, because you WILL confess to your illness (or end un non compos mentis with a ‘chemical restraint’ that is an overmedication aka torture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUOoRiI8HVU&t=30s
Of course now you have been prepared for an ‘interrogation’ whilst ‘spiked’ you can now be verballed and they can begin ‘overmedicating’ you with a chemical restraint. (overmedicating being an act of torture according to the UN but hey, who cares, the rules don’t apply when the Chief Psychiatrist only examines the “edited” version.
So for what it’s worth, my character has focused on ensuring that my brothers are aware of what the State is doing to ‘protect’ them from those dangerous Islamophobes lol. By ensuring that they can snatch people from their beds, torture and kidnap them, and then snuff them should they dare complain about the services they are being provided with our universal health care system. And it all looks like ‘medicine’. You guys in the US don’t know what your missing out on.
P.S. I think your doing a great job getting the information out about the potential for damage with TMS. I wondered about what alternatives there are for people and then realised…….. TMS is the second choice. What’s the first? ANYTHING ELSE lol
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Thank you so very much for sharing your story. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. I have been looking for a non-pharmaceutical solution to Major Depression for a long time now and everything I had read prior to reading your article had led me to think I had finally found it. I did a search on ‘why is TMS treatment so expensive’ and that led me to your article. I don’t have insurance; I’m my mother’s full-time caregiver and am unemployed so I was trying to figure out ways to raise the funds for this so-called “miracle cure” for depression. I won’t be pursuing this treatment any further, and that is all down to you sharing your story. So again, thank you and I hope that you are able to recover from the brain damage TMS caused. Also, (mind, I haven’t read through the numerous posts and I did not take note of the date you posted your original article, but having said that) labor laws prohibit a company from firing an employee whilst seeking medical treatment for a medical condition. If you haven’t already pursued a wrongful termination suit and the statute of limitations hasn’t expired, I should think you have a solid case.
Good luck to you.
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mlwalton13 –
Thank you so much for searching for answers, many people don’t and end up getting hurt because they trust blindly those who do not merit that trust. I know that caregiver roll can be quite hard. I am thankful beyond words to the family that has taken care of me, but i know it has been incredibly difficult for them, maybe even more difficult that it was on me.
After harm from TMS, I have put my faith in the human bodies ability to heal itself. To that end I have endeavored to eat just all natural whole foods, exercise everyday, help my community and pursue the things i enjoy so that my mind and body may find healing. I think evolutionary this is how we were able to heal in the past. Its hard for me to believe we would have survived if that was not the case. It may be worth giving a shot.
Best of luck to you as well.
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Nice to see this active James. It also is useful to warn people about the BS of psych culture in general.
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Thanks Sam, I agree. I hope you are well.
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Hi James,
I see that it’s been quite a while now since you’ve written this article. Was wondering how you are doing nowadays. Also have you seen any improvements in your well-being since your injury? If possible, I’d love to have a conversation with you about topics related to psychiatry/mental health. Hoping things are going well, or at least somewhat better than they have been. I know that I may be just another small voice over the internet, but just know that I am praying for you and for your recovery.
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wmr25,
I am hanging in there, I have learned a lot about what happened to me and how I react to things now – So I have developed some good coping mechanisms and ways of life that help rather than hurt the situation. In that way things are better but if anything goes wrong i quickly remember just how bad things have been and can be now. I am very grateful that i have been able to figure things out and have been able to effect some improvement.
Id love to have that conversation as well, I don’t ever get tired of having it with everyone i meet. Its so incredibly important and everyone has a unique perspective that is important to learn from. I think if we could all learn from each other readily these enormous problems would become small very quickly.
Thank you for the prayers – they make a huge difference, there are no small voices in that way and every ones voice is critically important in every way they make it so.
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James, THANK YOU for sharing your story. My rheumatologist is a wonderful Harvard-trained doctor and he said you have to have an exception to prove the rule. If TMS has been highly effective for some people that would mean it could be highly detrimental to others. That said, if no negative experiences have been found, it could mean that the worst that can happen is you have wasted a lot of money. That was my initial assumption with TMS until I found your story. We were looking into this treatment for my two sons who have suffered brain injury from an auto-immune disease. After spending hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last 9 years and a year of chemo for both boys they are finally in remission. While TMS could be beneficial to help with their emotional dysregulation and impaired executive function, there is no way I would take the chance of causing them injury after reading your experience and those shared here by others. There are other less risky neurotherapies to try first.
I am praying that you will find relief and healing. Thank you again for the care and effort you have put into sharing your experience.
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SGM,
Sorry to hear about your sons. I know we get desperate to help our kids.
But is it worth it?
Not even top scientists/neurologists can “fix” a brain, so how could anyone?
Also often once we “know” there is something “wrong” with a person, everything about
their movements, talk, behaviour becomes as an object to be observed and once we focus on that, it becomes problematic no?
There are scores of things “wrong” with people physically, yet even with simple things we don’t go operate to change the way they walk, so why are we playing with other people’s brains, brains we know nothing about?
Perhaps as with any disability, we are best of to make OURSELVES responsible to try and change their environment, instead of trying to change the objected human to suit what we deem the correct way to walk.
So not only TMS harms, but so do a lot of “therapies” that we are told are not invasive. Everything becomes suspect, unless you can find someone who has figured out the brain, and mind.
People are quite enthusiastic about OTHER people’s brains. They are not emotionally invested in that human.
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Thank you – for us, it was absolutely worth it! Both kids had a severe and sudden deterioration. They wanted to lock my older son in a school for kids with disabilities isolated from mainstream kids. He is now taking AP classes with no support at the local high school. The main issue is the psychiatrists say it is a mental health issue and the neurologist said it was a physiological, bacterial issue and she was right. You are very correct that the key is finding a good Doctor. Easier said than done.
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Very glad Sharing my experience has helped. It makes it all worth it.
TMS is disturbing enough in and of itself, however most people I talk to about it are already in a very very compromised and difficult situation, then they are harmed additionally by TMS or are desperate to try anything and get a doc that suggests there is nothing to lose. This is an exponentially more troubling and risky situation and when it goes badly the grief and unpleasantness track right off the charts into tragedy.
I am supremely happy you were able to be given the opportunity to make a fair judgement and avoid it – and that you are doing your best to advocate for your children.
You would be surprised to find how many people who ended up severely and irreparably injured by psychiatry, just to find out later they had a bacterial infection or over growth, or even some other biological issue that could have been rather easily handled otherwise.
That being said, in all pragmatic honesty, I have yet to find any value in or an argument for the use of psychiatry at all. The risk profile is exceptionally high and in my experience there has always been an alternative answer that treats the cause and not the symptoms.
Thank you for advocating so strongly for your children.
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Hello, James! I am one week after my tratment with TMS. It was only one session. I felt that it’s not good for me and I didn’t continue it. I had multiple chemical sensitivity before it, but TMS made it much worse. Do you believe only one session of TMS could cause a long lasting effect?
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Steve,
I am glad you had the good sense to discontinue treatment, a lot of us don’t.
Things are really hard to judge after one treatment. For instance several people have been fine after anywhere to 2 to 8 weeks and returned to normal. Unfortunately there have been several people who were severely injured after a single treatment and have not been able to recover for a year or more now.
That being said recovery is certainly possible after just a single treatment, and in that scenario you have the highest likelihood of recovery but you should proceed cautiously.
MCS is very interesting, many people develop it after TMS and so it does not seem odd that yours got worse. I developed it in a more mild form after and it has seemed to calm down over the last couple years, but i still remain highly reactive to certain things, of which i never reacted to before TMS.
With that being my experience, it seems reasonable that yours may resolve after some time and good care.
The electroporation that TMS causes creates nanopores in our cells that allows outside substances to traverse cell walls more easily, this may be the reason for it.
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Thank you for your response! Can you write me, please what do you mean by proceeding caustionsly? Do you mean, to live a healthy life as much as possible? Healty diet, exercise, taking vitamines, etc.?
This is very interesting, what you write about the possible mechanism that caused me this side effect. Is there a way to eliminate these nanopores of our cells?
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Proceed cautiously, with an abundance of thoughtfulness, caution and scrutiny. Do everything you can to help yourself heal that has little or no chance of harm. Be very skeptical of any medical treatments and make sure you know the potential harms well.
The nano pores are incredibly small and I know of no medical treatment to fix them. The only way i can conceive of would be by promoting cellular health and healing. In my mind the only way for the pores to resolve would be for the cells to heal themselves. These thoughts are just based on my experience and pursuit for answers.
The damage is so small and diffuse it does not even show up on imaging, and could only be discovered on autopsy and possibly only with an exhaustive effort I would imagine.
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Hi James!
Im sending my email ( from a semi rural suburb south west of Sydney NSW..between Sydney & Goulburn)
I conicidently found your Post, post reading ny own studies about rTMS, as an alternative to ECT, for My Own Continuing Education purposes!
Firstly… YES U DO INDEED have a RIGHT to advise others of the Side Effects that have Plagued YOU since undergoing your treatment, along with WHAT INFORMATION YOU RECEIVED @ The TIME of your treatment!
Im VERY SORRY to read that what was somewhat storied as an almost miracle cure for Depression….& ‘ would one day be in every doctors’ office etc…as u mentioned( cant recall exact wording used…..Became somewhat a Nitemare, id say; for YOU?!!
I do think i noted that this was Also a number of years back? Yes?
– Just clarifying, as Everything i have read of late- stated Short term memory loss, tinnitus- amongst noted side effects…. ive NOT read YEARS long though.
Having said that: It was an ANTIDEPRESSANT that Triggered what 2 Neurologists & 1 Neuro-otologist, have diagnosed Vertiginous OR Vestibulat- Basilary Migraines.. of which i sufferred severe daily pain( even with medication for yrs)
– My vertigo had to be ascertained as inner ear OR neurological. Neurological was diagnosed!
Ironically it WAS the ONLY Antidepressant that i EVER felt made a SIGNIFICANT improvement in my baseline Reactive Depression.
So, the psychiatrist doubled the dose( as id already tried so many types that had Failed to do anything @ maximum doses, except irritate my heart or make me gain weight, which depressed me further!!!
– Unfortunately upon dble dosing, the vertigo commenced. First as the floor carpets became magic like i was in an Aladdin Cartoon. Til then where i felt like i was moving despite still! Park the car & feel like im going thru window, panicked arms covering me. Someone beside me moves ther car, although im parked & away i go, noving with them. Going thru car wash for work vehicle? Uh, nah never again. Tinnitus intermittently which then switches briefly causes couple mins of complete deafness!!
– i was placed on yet another medication which AGAIN failed. Had to ween 1/16th every 4 days.. took mths.
Within 4 days off last dose.. i was shaking in foetal position in bed, nystagmus( eyes moving back forth involuntarily).. i screamed for my then husband to get me a cuppa & a couple of the pills id just finished!
– He was up on next level, his steps were vibrating thru my body & head! The tinkering of spoon in mug, i thought id scream in agony & throw up everywhere. I opened one dose of capsule took the granules for a quicker absorption of the med, the other i swallowed whole.. & rocked back & forth, jerking..for few hrs.
Approx 4-5hrs later i was able to slowly get out of bed!
– Neuro- Otologist advised that althpugh id also been suffering with sum mysterious bodily pains, he was ONLY to treat me for the vertigo/ migraines…
He stated.. ” an antidepressant Triggered it & it will be another type of antidepressant that will CURE you from it!” Insistently saying that the type of antidepressant needed to be a Tricyclic Antidepressant- Noretryptaline.
– he stated me on same, along with metroprolol( BP betablocker) 50mgs to start daily then 50mg BD ( morn, even- despite my low bp) as these meds are known to help Prevent migraines
He added Topamax & i went up to 450mg of Noretryptaline.
Im sure he tried a couple of other common migraine meds
– it was always.. see u in 3mths!
Id think 3 MORE months again & im not getting better?!!
– infact i told him that my body pain was Spreading & becoming far worse, i could barely dress myself yet was still working FT. I whinced everytime i moved a computer mouse & my migraines remained.
I sat in morning meetings drinking slurpees( to induce brainfreeze to ease my flush face & vasodilated vessels within my brain)
My collegues were so used to it!
– but specialist stated that it was IMPOSSIBLE THAT I HAVE INCREASED BODY PAIN AT THE DOSES I WAS ON, AS THE DRUG WAS USED FOR CHRONIC NERVE PAIN ETC & WAS STRONGER THAN AMYTRYPTALINE..& besides HE was NOT ther to trear my body pain.. JUST my Migraines!!
– i continued to gain weight, get more symptoms.
– he advised i would need to stay on the meds fir 6 mths minimum then be slowly weened off & my vertigo would be gone….
It NEVER did go!!!
I gave up on him & have found Duloxitine stabilised my vertigo far more efficiently & has done for about 14yrs! Occassionally IF i take it Late OR IF ive been sick in bed laying around- ill require an extra dose! BUT ive NEVER been able to ween off it!!!! Its doubtful i ever will be able to.
My body ended up in so much pain( i already had arthritis even from childhood as i have a connective tissue disorder & thru my profession ive developed many other muscularskeletal conditions. My GP had told me to ” guve up on life & wrap myself in cotton wool”
– Under a pain specialist i ended up on equivalent to 100-150mg morphine a day, whilst working.
As i was aware of the long term effects..i decided to slowly ween myself off them over couple of years
The pain still existed BUT far less than whenst on neuroleptics & opiods.
But then my Restless Leg Syndrome which id had since young had spread to my entire body. I would be smashing my limbs like a crazy exhausted zombie into EVERYTHING i could.
I told them it used to have a pattern of 3 nites & days.. but now had Nil pattern & could come for 10nites, no sleep.
I tried hot baths, still smashing myself, weighted blankets, vibration
Went on parkinsonial meds & another antiepleptic
Theyd help short term, them id go way above maximum dose, gain 20-30kg, come off, lose 15-20kgs.. then theyd try another
I looked up experimental drugs as i was down to just 5mg of oxycontin a day but when my RLS flaired id need another & by THIS stage the si called ” opioid crisis” was enforcing everyone to come off their opioids
– the Addiction specialist thought it was to my credit that id done so well on my own, as many wouldnt have. My pain specialist had Retired so i had to see another
– immediately he attacked me stating i shouldnt be on anything, at the time( before i completed my withdrawal)
– i was like- ” why r u attacking me like im the enemy or some junkie?! Im nearly off my pills!”
Though i questioned ” what” treatments that were available were they going to be using on those that cant cope? As IF that sort of pain should present again id rather die, as theres no quality of life! U cant work! U cant drive to go see family at distances! U cant even roll over in bed without wanting to scream & with a flair, u CANT even Breathe without constant pain. Not just pain upon ambulation BUT full body widespread pain ontop of all my differring arthritis, sublux, dislocation of joints etc
– He offerred NOTHING
” First DO NO HARM HUH?”
U threw the drugs out as they were cheap & all other treatment modalities would cost our governmet too much in cost for medicare. So give them/ us nothing to hope for!!
Ive a severly disabled daughter with mental health issues to care for on my own.
He replied ” i know what sort of life you have!”
– well i lost it!
” ALL u know is whats written by my doctor on ur referral. U DONT know Me or Her. U Dont know how i live.
Do u have a strong disabled teen with the mentality of a 4yo punching into ur arm to get het breakfast ” right now!” Whilst u try to tell her as soon as ur medications start working u will get up but cant yet?!
DONT B.S me FFS that u are aware of what my life is like for a moment!!
& this visit today has given me NIL hope for the future IF my pain shall worsen or during flairs. I now sincerely wish to go home to figure out how best to terminate my life, if this is ALL that it holds. As IF i Cant continue to be able to care for her..i do NOT wish to exist with that & the pain!”
NB i was deathly serious
Yet HE did NOT say..
” now are u serious? Lets talk? Do u have a plan? How long have u felt like this? Nothing! He did nOTHING that ANY Medical officer or health Professional should do! Words ive had to ask others many times in my career.
To boot. It was an hour drive & i was in alot of pain just from THAT!!
As soon as some Pharmacogenomic testing was available i had the test done, at my own cost.
Trycyclic antidepressants dont work on me
Sum antinflammatories give me adverse reactions( but not told what)
Some meds that i know DO work, was told didnt & vice versa…as its not a complete panel of testing
Theyre testing just some of the P450 CYP enzymes/ allelles & although sum meds initially utilise these, they also may then go thru other metabolic processes that are NOT incl in the picture at this stage…so its PART of a storey
– Having said that though..IF available in past it couldve saved me from being such a guinea pig with 17yrs of medications.
Some antieplieptics sent my LFTs flying up & me stupified for a month. Others set my skin on fire( yet supposed to kill nerve pain & are very successful for sooo many!) & i still feel residual burning in my chest/ arms/ back alot of days. .
What works for some or even ALOT of people…may NOT for just the few
REGARDLESS
Informed Consent means FULL DISCLOSURE
Unfortunately
Most companies DONT know what the Long term side effects CAN be as theyre often rushed through testing processes to get the drugs out asap..
So shortterm most may have their side effects diminish or disappear
BUT
Decades later they will find that most treatments, drugs that affect certain parts of our brains
Such as how antidepressants, opioids, neuroleptics/ antiepleptics, benzodiazipines, ” z” sleeping pills..will ALL affect GABA within our brain til eventually Our brains no longer Know how/ when/ amounts to produce themselves. As the drugs/ treatments etc have manufactured the process for us.
Then upon cessation WE are then bombarded with side effects of withdrawals that can last yrs!!!
From my reading ther are a couple of ways rTMS can be applied on positions of brain.
My reading has suggested just several ( or few) times a week over the 10-12 weeks & best used in conjunction with Interpersonal Therapy with Psychologist, as outcome results are stated as improved further. ( i havnt yet read daily treatments? & EEGs have been recommended by some prior to commencing.)
Perhaps if theyd offered psychology, im sure that person would have noted any deteroration in ur mental acuity & fedback concerns( atleast u wouldve hoped so!!!)
Ive seen ECT deliver great results for many but that doesnt mean it will for all! Amnesia is also a side effect of that.
U r usually lightly anaethetised & the body barely twitches. Ive watched the procedures, monitored them in recovery & taken them again couple days later. They can be catatonic & suddenly up out of ther rooms for meals!!
Though no matter how successful a treatment in any domain..there are always risks or the very few amongst thousands that WONT react well or get the desired result.
Forearmed with as much knowledge as we can possibly gather is forwarned!
It can be a million to 1 chance in surgery ( most of us will presume- hell we couldnt be tHAt unlucky?!)
I DONT! But if the surgery or procedure IS required, we must weigh up benefits compared to risks…before we sign..
There are no sure fire cures for alot of things
Thankyou for giving us insight into YOUR personal experience, with rTMS!
I sincerely hope u will NOT be plagued by these side effects forever!!!
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Hi James, I assume this message will reach you.
There was one of those advertisments presented as a news item on our 6pm regular news regarding a call for ‘research subjects’. The experiment is to subject people with memory loss due to dementia to TMS treatments, with the claim that it restores and prevents against memory loss.
Having seen this sort of ‘advertsing’ before ( Nurse on the front page of the newspapers claims ECT is miracle cure for depression….. so lets make it available for teenagers), I thought of your article.
The ‘experiment’ seems to be a case of if there are improvements in people with dementia, then the success will be attributes to the treatment. And if there is significant damage to anyone, that will no doubt be attributed to pre-existing condition.
I note there was no ‘warning’ about the possibility of harm, and the ‘journalism’ as I have said is basically advertising for the TMS company.
So expect some claims of a ‘miracle cure’ for dementia and memory loss coming out of this ‘research’. I guess the stuff with ‘depressed teens’ didn’t work out so well, so the snake oil is being taken to another town.
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I’ve just been reading the excellent series by Danielle Egan here about DBS – brain implants with a “pacemaker” to constantly shock the brain. One step beyond TMS.
Anyhow, in my research, I believe I found the trial you are speaking of. I was talking to a friend about DBS & TMS, and she said that her local clinic did TMS. So I looked up the clinic:
https://www.toowongclinic.com.au/clinical-research-tms
And found that – well, they do TMS – on an experimental basis.
I’m about to read the MIA 2019 article by Andrew Scull about DBS & depression – it seems that the DBS experiments didn’t stop in 2015 with Broaden – they’ve continued under other auspices.
I swear, they won’t be happy until all the brain cells are destroyed.
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“they do TMS – on an experimental basis.”
On people who lack the ability to give informed consent? Dementia patients? I assume you know how the ‘trap’ works? (ie if you don’t give your consent, we will remove that ‘right’ and give it to someone who will. See my wife being given my rights to not be tortured and kidnapped, when it didn’t suit them for me to exercise those rights, or my right to make a complaint, or my right to a heart beat when that was failing them….. “who else has got the documents?”)
I put the word ‘right’ in quote marks because as you would be aware, there are no ‘rights’ in Australia (see George Carlin “You Have No Rights”). With the flick of a switch you can be made into an “Outpatient” by the State thus then justifying what would otherwise be considered acts of torture (and other such distasteful acts that few have the stomach for). Legal narrative is “edited”, the victim slandered and the right to effective legal representation denied because …… It really is that simple.
Value a Rule of Law? Not when they have their hooks into a big fish, the protected species handbook goes overboard, and we will delete the photos of the catch. “Who else has got the photos?” The Fisheries Dept isn’t meant to be hauling illegal catches onboard for those breaking the rules…… that can’t look good.
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Quite clever really when I think about it. Corrupt ‘arrangements’ between the State and a Private Clinic psychologist (with a Masters degree) to release confidential medical records from a Clinic which does reports for defense attorneys and the Courts, and enable her to arrange arbitrary detentions and torture sessions so that the State gets access to information otherwise unavailable…….. see for example Lawyer X/Nicola Gobbo situation.
Make your criminal associate into a State confidential informant and kill anyone who threatens to expose the ‘arrangement’, “edit” the documents, and ensure that legal representation is denied (Have the Principle of the Mental Health Law Centre forge a letter from the Chief Psychiatrist). Police will provide assistance in that regard, though prefer to remain ‘invisible’…. so arrange your own ‘referral’. No wonder they needed to find out “Who else has the documents” and needed to steal my laptop and ‘turn’ the Judas that took the documents from me.
Value a rule of law? I think not. Though fortunate for them the slander they have smeared me with (and the deliberate fucking destruction of my life by the State) means that no one is prepared to even examine the facts…. as opposed to the “edited” version. Oh well, your next.
Frantz Fanon, Wretched of the Earth. Colonial War and Mental Disorders Series C Category 1 “after so-called preventative tortures of an indiscriminate nature”.
And what was this all about? My wife thought I should speak to someone about my decision to leave her. And a clinic psychologist who despised me for my political beliefs (her husband being a Shock Doc, and me refusing to hand over my wallet for ‘treatments’ until the money ran out). Still, quite a valuable couple of ‘resources’ picked up by my wifes Prof. friend in the E.D…… and he got two years of ‘use’ out of them until Police found out I still had the documents…… then they had to run….. and ignore the facts because well, people think they are getting fair trials lmao
“They will take their oaths as a cover” 58:16
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I was just watching a video of a young man being stopped by police in the U.S. He seemed to have a complaint about the police pointing a loaded weapon at his head to have him comply with their request. Are Police in the U.S. not allowed to use coercive methods to have their questions answered?
Funny, but mental health actually make requests for this service when they think someone might refuse to speak to them (coded as a request for an ‘acute stress reaction’). mainly because of their reputation as filthy ‘verballing’ pigs. Put a gun to their head and they tend to talk. And interesting that they simply tell Police that the citizen is their “Outpatient” to remove the right to due process, and subvert the protections offered the community by the law.
Combine that with the ability to incapacitate the target by ‘spiking’ them with date rape drugs (later to be made into their “regular medications” by the Senior Medical Officer authorising the arbitrary detentions and torture sessions, and thus any complaints become a paranoid delusion treated with electricity against your will) and plant a knife to justify the use of a weapon……..
No wonder they needed to “edit” the documents and conceal the ‘confidential informants’ setting these situations up for them. And they wonder why the amount of people committing suicide from their ‘treatments’ is increasing?
Goes to show what they think of people who subvert the law and find means of torturing citizens with Police….give them an Order of Australia medal. The ‘collateral damage’ can be concealed with “editing” and slander.
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Howdy Boans,
Sorry If I missed any of your previous comments. I went quite awhile at the beginning of the year not feeling well. Surprise surprise.
I heard a bit about this use of TMS for dementia a little while ago and it frightened me quite a bit, but I already knew before that, that TMS is most often used in geriatric communities. I immediately recognized the danger of this scenario for people whose cognitive abilities might already be in decline or more susceptible to decline or misinterpretation. Like i mentioned in my comment to Jan, its really just a more sophisticated form of lobotomy at its core. TMS attempts to relieve mental discomfort with cognitive distortion or impairment. If you perform this on a vulnerable population, its really an incredible exploitation, with no accountability.
I think this is at the core of what happened to you in alot of ways, as a citizen we are a vulnerable population to our government, we can easily be exploited by them. You have done quite a good job at showing the myriad ways that exploitation can happen. There is not just one tool the government can use to take advantage of its citizens but a very wide array of perfectly effective things. I think you love examples of this and Fanon is an excellent one – i found it very interesting that during his time in Algeria, he reported that the French forces commandeered his ECT equipment in order to interrogate rebels. We know that if something is absolutely true then the inverse is also true, if governments want to commit crimes against other humans or its citizens it will actually do so overseas so it does not violate its own sovereignty and can more easily deny the sovereignty of other governments, furthermore the agents of our government that perform illegal activities are allowed to do so as long as they are not on our own soil. They have really perfected the game so well they know how, when and where to do whatever they want – which means if they need to do it on their own soil they certainly can do that as well. Maybe I am rambling a bit but I am really surprised by how well perfected the things going on around us are, at first i thought this may be a new thing or something that rarely happened, now i see the joke is on us and we never had access to justice in the first place.
To answer your other question, in the US, the police have a tremendous amount of space to operate in during the course of their duties and are rarely if ever held personally accountable for their actions. So what does that mean? It means a law enforcement office can violate your constitutional rights by pointing a loaded weapon at you or coercing a statement from you or otherwise threatening you with virtually no accountability, certainly no personal accountability. The worst thing that can happen is that you could take legal(civil) action against the law enforcement organization whom that officer worked for and try and get some compensation but there is really no fair legal compensation for having your human rights trampled is there? I think you have identified that maybe our legal rights are only retrospective. We have these laws and ideas of how human beings should be treated but it is violated every second by people who know exactly what the law is. I mean its a hard job protecting a populace from itself but the legal system meant to keep things fair has completely and utterly failed, it appears, and there is little to no access to the means to rectify things legally. The law is so complicated you need a lawyer in order to get anything done, and as such there is no adequate access to lawyers, and no adequate time frame in which you could act even if you did have access to a lawyer.
Everything is bogged down and controlled by bureaucracy and as such, like in your situation governments have eternity to ensnare you in the way that best fits their agenda, or deny you access to justice.
I really hate dwelling on such things but its a very dangerous time to do a lot of things, like even get help in the medical system and any assurances we might have for honesty in that system or any other is really largely fiction.
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Hi James,
sorry to hear you haven’t been well.
Glad your at least aware of the ‘move’ to use these devices in ‘care’ settings.
The idea of human rights abuses overseas doesn’t seem to quite fit with what has been going on where I live. The State has been subjecting some children to human rights abuses, and the assumption on their part is that due to media ‘support’ they can basically torture kids and use the unaccountability model to get away with it.
One claim by the Minister is that he is unaware of the use of the ‘restraint techniques’ which has shown to result in deaths being used in the facilities he oversees. Strange but I got the term “unintended negative outcomes” from a report by the Chief Psychiatrist into some deaths which occurred in a mental health facility as a result of ‘restraint techniques’ some time back, which was no doubt tabled in Parliament? Perhaps he was being wined and dined at ‘Soapworld’ on a Corporate Credit Card the day this was discussed? The State still denying public access to the laptop with the videos of our ‘finest’ during this meeting with the business community. A ‘happy ending’ no doubt what the State has in mind.
Our Premier has a very good way with words (and a ‘friend’ who owns the television station who gives him a pat on the head for being a good boy), and it can be seen that his claim of ignorance of what is being done to these ‘worst of the worst’ kids will receive support in the community (and maybe it will……again)
One Judge pointing out what he calls the “perverse irony” of the State absolutely brutalising these kids, and making them into monsters they then release back on their communities. “If you want to make a monster, this is how you do it” a report into the facility states. If the parents treated them in this manner they would be charged and the kids removed from their care. Whats the difference? A mechanism to cover up and intimidate and threaten the witnesses? Call it ‘care’?
I guess the ‘good news’ about all of this is that those who do the torture get to suffer from the trauma of it after some time (see Fanon). And they with a large pension/payout fall into the hands of people who can use force to provide the ‘care’ they may require, that is they are going to need to be ‘diagnosed’ before their exit from the service. Call it insurance on the part of the State if you will. It may also give some insight into the reasons so many officers are leaving, and putting their own weapons into their mouths, being ‘treated’ being the problem not the solution. And the call on the part of both the State AND their Union for MORE?
It leaves me not really wondering why I managed to come across a ‘predatory pair’ operating out of a Private Clinic. Once the ‘business’ with the State has been dealt with, the slander produced to reach a resolution can then be ‘repurposed’ to remove any benefit these public officers may have gained. The attitude of the Private Clinic psychologist was that the compensation I had received was to be taken from my wallet with ‘forced treatments’ once she shuffled me sideways into the hands of the person who has the stomach for it all.
I must admit it’s quite beautiful in it’s simplicity, someone who has gained your trust in an environment with a good reputation grabbing you on the way out the door and dragging you into a dark alley to have thugs mug you. The reputational damage to the Private Clinic means that those aware of the criminals operating within that environment can’t expose them. The best they can do is conceal the fact they left them operating there despite having the documented proof it was happening (police wondering “who else has the documents?”, and thus is aware of their ‘resource’ See the last chapter of Sun Tzu the Art of War for the problem the State then faced….was she acting as an ‘enemy agent’ the whole time? Feeding the State false information as she did in my instance? “patient” being the lie that set the whole destruction of life in motion?)……… there were of course benefits for the State with someone committing Federal offences by releasing confidential medical records, and setting ‘clients’ up to be arbitrarily detained and tortured by the State when they went for a legal medico report for their lawyers.
Sitting in the waiting room next to a Member of Parliament who was eventually acquitted of the crimes he was alleged to have committed will give you some idea of the scale of ‘advantage’ to be achieved by such methods. Once again, the “elegant method of overcoming ‘resistance'” (Fanon) can clearly be seen. And when you can’t trust your own psychologist (releasing the reports of the clinic psychiatrist unlawfully). Or your lawyer, who must act in the interest of the State despite being aware of the criminal misconduct and human rights abuses?
I find myself wondering how the State is going to use the information which has been ‘hacked’ from our Medicare system. If my example is anything to go by, those listed in the released medical records titled “Psycho” would be best to start packing their belongings and leave now. Because there are people receiving support in the destruction of anyone the State sees as being a threat to their reputation. And there is no doubt the ‘hackers’ have done their homework, and the State will no doubt recognise the advantages of the public thinking it was Russians. Having such ‘dirt’ on people filed away will no doubt take some time to unravel, especially when the people who take their own lives can be attributed to ‘other causes’.
Take care James, and stay well.
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That is dark indeed Boans, I appreciate you sharing as its best of course to be aware of whats happening in other places as we may not be aware of it, but it does not mean its not happening or on its way. Of course we do see instances of the state forcing the drugging and shock treatments of children which amount to torture under the UN convention on the subject, but that sounds a little different.
Take care and stay well, as well Boans.
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JanCarol –
It is a very interesting phenomena, after having experienced it and have talked to hundreds of people about it I think I have it largely pegged.
People are absolutely smitten with leveraging cognitive impairment to solve mental discomfort. Looking back as far as we can, people have always used alcohol, and then the next thing and the next thing. This fascination with electrical current and fields that interfere with or change cognition and or executive function will never stop as long as people keep trying to quell their own minds with some sort of physical intervention.
When I experienced my own cognitive impairment as a result of TMS, I actually experienced cessation of my anxiety, but it was replaced with this void of difficulty thinking and expressing myself. As time passed on I started to get the ability to articulate what had happened and it was that the primary actor since the very first day of my TMS treatment was augmentation of my cognition by physical insult or force.
There are a lot of philosophical questions that come up when we look at it plainly, and I think each person has to answer that philosophical question first before executing the scientific “answer” for themselves. The real rub has been that science has tried to convince us that we don’t have to ask ourselves if we want a physiological adjustment to our brains in order to get cessation of any unpleasantness, but its just not true. There is always the philosophical question of, do we want to harm ourselves in order to bring a chance of relief? I really loathe those who keep trying to convince everyone that it can be low risk or risk free, at least in a medical setting there is no such thing. Its just a sales pitch isn’t it?
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Well Said
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you are getting better. I have a traumatic brain injury and been referred to a clinic that offers this as a treatment. I would rather stay the way I am than risk losing more cognitive function or increase my neurofatigue.
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Brilliant Mell, Hard call for some of us but absolutely brilliant.
Thank you for the kind words as well.
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OMG this is me!!! I just recently finished TMS & I’ve had a complete personality change. I’ve started having psychosis & am scared a lot. I live alone & don’t really have family or friends. I’m seeing my psychiatrist later but the therapist pointed it out today. I need someone to talk to who has experienced the same thing.please.
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Hang in there Spring2023.
I have seen TMS cause psychosis as well although it is rare. It could be transient. I wrote another piece more about exactly how TMS causes injury and some of what we have learned from it. Its here in MiA – https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/01/tms-hurt/
You can talk to others in the Victims of TMS Action group (VTAG) Facebook group or send me an email at [email protected].
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James, I am a product research engineer and have studied TMS and now tACS. Your brain seems to have been working just fine when you were writing “Too Good to Be True: How TMS Damaged My Brain.” You did a great job, and may I add, you wrote in such a way that I could not stop reading it. I am also an author (johnbeiswenger.com). Nikola Tesla understood the problem today’s scientists are having: “The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena; it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.”
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John,
Thank you so much for the kind words and the link to your page and works. Quite the accomplishments, and I have to admit perusing your books there are several I would like to pick up. If you have any suggestions feel free to let me know or give a brief synopsis.
You bring up an interesting thought of mine or rather something I learned while enduring the harms of TMS. I was surprised that writing and generating ideas was not a problem for me, even though I have significant cognitive impairment. While I could not multitask or interact with people well, or deal with environmental stimuli without unpleasantness… my ability to think and articulate was rather unimpeded if I was able to do it on my own. For me that was a discovery, there was something deep inside me that was impossible to inhibit… I often wondered, is that intelligence? is this wisdom? All my different dimensions of functioning are changed but I can still think for myself, understand, and develop new ideas for myself just as well as ever – and fight, in my mind I was driven to fight and speak about what happened to me.
To me it established experientially the presence of myself that cannot be inhibited and appears to be eternal. Believing in a soul is one thing but feeling it proven is another. That brought into clear picture so many things about human existence and how stories of other peoples incredible struggles and successes could be true and even common.
To that end, I really appreciate your quote by Tesla. There are worlds of change and advancement waiting for us both scientific and spiritual, but I think there is just one piece left to tackle for all of us. I think we will all have to accept Honesty, compassion, fortitude and tribe into our consciousness as a fundamental mechanism for advancement. Then we can advance on every front in ways we cannot even imagine. Ironically the remaining hurdles are not intellectual, but based on virtue and character. I think a lack of these things disallow our observation of what could be interpretable or rather non-physical – generally. Curious your thoughts if your interested in pontificating.
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Hi, James! You said in another article that “the person who administered your treatments was newly trained and had no other medical training or knowledge”. Couldn’t the side effects be caused by the fact that an unprepared person did the procedure? Maybe he didn’t know how to manage the procedure or notice certain problems that arose along the way that could have been fixed. Any good tool, but used wrongly, creates problems, so the one who uses it has a very important role to play. A medically trained person could have identified problems along the way and optimized the way they did the procedure to counteract side effects. What do you think about the fact that the application of TMS by unqualified personnel leads to such problems complained of by many, and not the procedure itself which uses much the same magnetic field as MRI?
I wish you all the best!
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Curious,
This is certainly a question many of us asked ourselves and each other early on in the discovery process of TMS harms. Naturally it is a question that must be considered from end to end if you are to be certain of what has happened to you and if a TMS injury is even possible or real.
Simplistically, the answer to your question is that while any TMS administrator is very capable of making the TMS injury more egregious, they do not create the injury themselves – that is very simply done by the physics of TMS itself as I documented in detail in my other piece – https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/01/tms-hurt/.
To address all the specifics of your quandary, which are great considerations that need to be understood by everyone and anyone –
1. In my particular case, while my tech administering my treatment was new, they were also freshly trained by both their own staff and the manufacturers staff. They also were directly supervised by the offices management team who informed me they had overseen thousands of treatments. I personally watched them do the initial calibration and double check the new techs work for the first few visits, which was long enough for my symptoms to already onset. So any thoughts of negligence on the staffs behalf become pretty minimal although if we look at each case of harm individually, must be considered. However when we look at expertise globally at all the cases, I have interviewed people harmed by experts at the most reputable colleges and institutions in the US just as well as newly opened independent facilities that are more oriented on making money. While it does seem that well trained and wise neurologists administering the treatments themselves are more apt to quickly stop treatment when signs of neurological harm arise, it does not prohibit harm itself from being generated.
2. The second part of the answer comes down to physics which i review thoroughly in my other article listed above so I will not go into great detail. The fact is that TMS administers enough electromagnetic energy to destroy human cells and severely impair the human nervous system – this is well documented physics. This is particularly dangerous and damaging when the energy of TMS is directed specifically at effecting cells of the human brain. In contrast to that we have the MRI which uses similarly intense energies. So what’s the difference? An MRI maintains a certain distance from the human body, and even though it is not a really significant distance(a few inches, maybe a foot at most), electromagnetic energy is diffused very quickly, so even that short distance will make a big difference in terms of how cells will handle their interaction with the field. MRI is also not a particularly focused energy when compared to TMS, it moves and breaks over a larger area. Lastly, MRI’s are typically a one time exposure. You go in get it done and don’t go back for a very long time. I suspect we would see far more MRI injuries if they had to be done every day for months(I contacted a clinic that treats electrical injury in the US and they said they treat MRI’s techs who are chronically exposed to those fields). Severe TMS injuries rarely occur on the first visit although it certainly does happen, the repetitive nature of TMS is a particularly dramatic insult to the human nervous system.
Certainly if we took TMS more seriously we could mitigate or minimize many of the injuries that are occurring by simply identifying them early and taking the procedure more seriously(as you have astutely pointed out a lack of expertise and understanding is a dangerous and reckless thing and does indeed cause injury on its own), but we don’t which is well beyond my understanding as the physics are a black and white issue. That intensity of electromagnetic field is incontrovertibly destructive to human cells and the human nervous system. The MRI is a much different application and still represents its own risks as well, which we often cast off as harmless. To give it some perspective, MRI’s do cause damage and change or effect the human body. Someone sensitive to EMF’s or that is experiencing specific health problems can go into cardiac arrest or have other complications from MRI’s.
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Thank you a lot for your complex answer. I don’t mean to belittle your situation, I was just curious about these aspects. It’s frustrating that there is so much ignorance about TMS. I have a few questions if it’s ok for you:) I really appreciate your work to make people aware of these dangers.
So it’s been about 3 years since you did TMS and the side effects have appeared. What is your current health status and what side effects do you still have? About how many percent of them have disappeared? I know you can’t give an exact number but I was wondering about the approximate evolution of recovery.
Have effective methods been found so far to treat the brain for electrical injuries? You said that you “contacted a clinic that treats electrical injury in the US”. Is there hope in this area for the present or near future?
One last question. I just tried one session of TMS, approximately 30 minutes, but I didn’t notice anything unusual after the session. It’s been a week already and I haven’t noticed anything wrong. And can the brain heal completely from possible harms? I know you can’t give an exact answer as things are extremely complex and there are many unknowns, but I know you have done a lot of research in this direction and can point out certain aspects.
Thank you a lot!
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Curious –
No worries about belittling my situation and I apologize for any terse tone in my reply. I am simply trying to answer as helpfully and objectively as possible. I expect everyone to question me, as that is how we truly learn. People that agree without questioning I sometimes doubt have gained the importance of what I am saying and on the other end of the spectrum some people find what I am saying offensive in some way and so they will never see far enough through their emotions to get to the valuable information. So it is to say that I would much rather someone ask an honest question and belittle me than any degree of the formers. I greatly appreciate the genuine nature of the questions above all else. Always feel free to ask anything you will learn from, every single piece of information I have learned in my life is free to anyone here who would ask. I find this topic and the community of people effected by this situation both physically and ideologically, the most in need of complete honesty, wisdom and information to help guide their decisions and encourage their ability to make the absolute best decisions for their lives in all forms and aspects.
To your real questions here – I still have all of my symptoms in some shape or form, and up until a short time ago i actually developed inner akathisia as well. So the best information to share is really one on how I have improved over time with maybe a side note on certain symptoms. That being said it has been about five years since I did TMS. In the last 4.5 years I had only had about a five to ten percent decrease in symptom strength and with the introduction of inner akathisia about a year and a half ago this was maybe even a net loss, some symptoms were better but dealing with akathisia actually took my ability to function to a lower level than it had been right after TMS. However! – A few months ago I did a prolonged water only fast, which not only relieved the inner akathisia entirely, it also improved most of my symptoms by… what we could say is thirty to forty percent. That is an incredibly dramatic improvement in just the twenty three days I went without food, and arguable the next eleven or twelve days I did of refeeding after the fast(the period it took me to get back to normal). So this tells us a few things, recovery from TMS is highly dependent on both the severity of the injury and the nature of what we do to recover after the injury. So people who are more severely injured face a very difficult recovery that is highly dependent on their actions and circumstances. People with a less impactful injury may find it much easier to recover and it will likely have less to do with their circumstances and efforts to recover. It makes some sense, but it also matches what we see in the population of those reporting injury. Anecdotally, My vestibular and memory issues did not improve much after the fast and my fasciculations resolved for about two weeks after the fast but then returned with my activity. My sensitivities to food made drastic improvements and have resolved almost entirely. All the other symptoms generally improved about that 30 to 40 percent – this includes anxiety and depression and the others I listed I believe.
Unfortunately there is not much out there are not many effective methods of recovery from electrical injury. There is CETRI in Chicago, and I believe Dr. Marc Jeschke at Sunnybrook close to Toronto, Canada. As far as I know their methods focus on rehabilitating different aspects of the symptoms generated from electrical injury. For instance I did vestibular rehabilitation and regardless of the cause it helped my dizziness and balance problems from my injury but did not resolve them entirely – this could be related to the fact it was a head injury and not had any bearing on the fact it was ALSO an electrical injury. So there are different modalities that can help electrical injury patients but I am not aware of any specific treatments for repetitive diffuse low intensity electrical injury. So to answer more directly, there are only two entities in the entirety of north America even looking at electrical injury and I see no evidence to suggest they are particularly effective at treating these injuries. This tells us there is not much hope or direction for the future. Which leads us to an even more troubling question – Why are we mettling so deeply and thoroughly with electricity when we possess little to no capacity to address the repercussions? Furthermore, I am afraid Sam Plover is entirely right, we also admittedly know little to nothing about how to treat injury to the CNS, and here we are seriously tampering with both. Objectively this situation is quite dire. I find myself fortunate to have spent the last five years studying it from the pragmaticism demanded of my situation. I have learned the hard lessons that it will take the rest of us an incalculably long time to formally figure out, prove and share collectively.
I love your last question, it is really good and challenging to answer. The first thing you want to consider is if you have any cognitive impairment as a result of your single session. Sometimes and unfortunate consequence of the treatment is anosognosia – where because of our impairment we cannot really see that our memories or cognitive functioning is diminished. For me because I was impaired i couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me for a few weeks and after that time all i did know was that something was wrong – i felt drunk or just impaired. If your sure that is not the case then after about three to six months if nothing else shows up you should have escaped the treatment free of any obvious effects. Unfortunately the nervous system has a memory or rather it is generally a conglomeration of former insults because we rarely lead lives that allow it the space it need to heal itself. So if we were looking to TMS in the first place we may lead stressful or otherwise taxing lives on our CNS – that is probably why we were seeking TMS in the first place. However, if we are able to rest our CNS from agitating factors we will return to homeostasis and fully functioning insult free CNS and so in that case we do not have to worry about an undetected insult from TMS. But, otherwise if this invisible injury does not heal that makes us more susceptible to harms from further TMS treatments or any other insult to our nervous system in the future – Say you get Viral meningitis or some other health complication that tends to really drag down the nervous system, or say the loss of a loved one or a really serious stressor – you may end up with a situation similar to TMS injury or rather the TMS injury will help agitate a nervous system injury that surfaces as something else. Does that make sense? The CNS is a closed system that can only heal itself, if it does not it will eventually run out of gas and TMS will be one of the things that added to the breakdown.
It is entirely possible to heal entirely, good sleep, fasting, and healthy non stressful activity all allow the CNS to heal itself as long as we are thinking positively and removing all stress and stressful actors from our lives. There are a lot of specifics around this, let me know if you have more questions on it, or any others you may have if i did not answer the way you were looking for.
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James, I looked into Sunnybrook,
And correct me if I missed something but according to this article, it encourages “neruromodulation”…vhttps://sunnybrook.ca/media/item.asp?c=1&i=3603&f=harquail-donation-2023
“With the power to influence brain circuitry, neuromodulation is a highly promising approach for a wide range of psychiatric and brain disorders. Sunnybrook’s Harquail Centre of Neuromodulation quickly built upon Sunnybrook’s early success in focused ultrasound, launching world-first clinical trials using focused ultrasound in Alzheimer’s disease, ALS and Parkinson’s disease; the first North American clinical trials for severe depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder; and deep brain stimulation in post-traumatic stress disorder, treatment-resistant alcohol use disorder and more. Deeply interdisciplinary in its approach, the Harquail Centre supports a critical mass of experts in surgery, internal medicine, psychiatry, neurology and other fields.”
This quote is so seriously dangerous. People become desperate and subject themselves to experiments, and there was a time I might have done so. What is so phenomenal that there are millions of people quite willing to experiment on humans, willing to ruin their lives permanently.
So if I contemplate “mental illness”, who is more ill, or crazy? The guy who fucks around with unknown territory, or the desperate person trusting.
All I know is that after years of trying to “fix” myself for some standard, I became aware that I was in fact simply reaching out to a system that has not even entertained that they are looking in the wrong places and are “affected” in serious tunnel vision ways.
Wow I just cannot believe the words they use “NEUROMODULATION” So sciency sounding…NOT
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Like the old occult maxim: do not summon anything you cannot banish.
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I always thoroughly enjoy your commentary Sam. I may not always reply but know that. I honestly don’t always reply because your so poignant and to the point – its all direct honesty. I mean I try and break things down for folks so they have an opportunity to understand things in the way I do. But the more most times, I feel like saying just believe Sam and keep it simple hahahahhaha. There is no more to be found, in fact we spend all this time trying to get to a complete understanding just to get there five years later and say, Ohhhhh Its just complete BS – and thats what Sam told me from the start. hahahahhaha.
This instance is no different. When I talk about the situation being dire, thats my way of trying to explain objectively what should be summed up subjectively – Its complete rubbish, its a joke – even the best facilities with the “best” understanding of the nervous system and the most effective practices are still supremely disrespectful, negligent and destructive to the human body. They honor no person, and in no way. As brutish as our ancestors may seem to any indoctrinated mind, they were still eons ahead of where we are now. And not in a technological way, but rather a philosophical way, an honest way, a way of integrity, virtue and honesty. You see its like Jan so simply and eloquently said as well – If we cannot control, regulate or utilize what we have effectively and with proper conscience then it is FAR FAR worse than not having anything at all.
But to say it another way or recall another idea – Your right Sam, every single clinician I have seen, every doctor, every new nurse or staff member of any kind, every single one has offered me something terribly dangerous and has done so in an entirely negligent way – free from critical thought. Every opportunity i have had for help, has been tempered with the temptation of severe injury. This goes for every single person I have spoken to about these topics as well, that has offered me a recount of their personal experience.
There are a lot of overt crises we can see out there, in my mind -none more detrimental than the deficit in critical thinking/ thinking for ourselves(Taught academically as philosophy, but can be learned in so many other ways). And that really wouldn’t be such a big deal if everyone was not trying to push debris like neuromodulation and then self proclaiming their incredibly unfathomable success.
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It would not make a “difference” anyway, no matter who applies it since the instructions are from the same people to whoever believes or wants to risk someone’s brain.
It’s beyond risky to fool around with people’s brains unless of course anyone thinks that the brain is known.
The brain, the CNS, the vast complexities are not close to being “known”.
As of yet, it takes years to diagnose a CNS, or autoimmune disease and the “treatment” as of yet is prednisone.
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“I always thoroughly enjoy your commentary Sam.”
Thank you James.
I am very aware that you need to explain it to certain folks and you have endless patience
to do so. You have done a good thing, so keep it up.
You are so right about the brutish ways that exist and so much more at their disposal to experiment with, than did people of old. The only thing one can do is save a few from falling into the whole “mental health” trap.
Continuing to make people think and reevaluate what and who is actually at play, with their minds. Their whole lives in fact.
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Hi, James! I have a question about how TMS affects cognitive ability and concentration. Can you drive a car? And how much has TMS affected you in this regard?
Thanks!
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Curious,
To answer simply – Yes, I can still drive a car. For the first few years and during treatment, this was tentative at best and technically I probably should not have been driving or rather to rephrase your question, was it safe for me to drive a car or should I have been allowed a license. And, the question to that one should be No, it was not safe for me to drive a car and my license should have been taken away but this level of scrutiny and regulation does not exist, so i had no problem keeping my license and for a time I stopped driving.
Most notably, I stopped at a green light a few months after TMS because i did not understand what it meant. Also, I liken my acuity to being drunk, and when i drove my attention was so poor I am sure i was legally drunk and I am just lucky to have survived it.
Over time as I drove more and more, it got better and better and now I am sure I would pass a driving test if I had to take one. Really this goes hand in hand with the Neuropsych testing, after I took that the psychologist said I should be very careful driving and she was right. She recognized that my very slow ability to comprehend things, my virtually non existent ability to multitask, and my tendency to rapidly become overstimulated by almost anything is what makes driving dangerous for many people.
I also couldn’t read after TMS but as i forced myself to read over and over again every day, i regained the ability to read well. Principles of neuroplasticity tell us the brain will map your skills all over again in new places when they become lost or damaged.
Each person is different here, but I think we roughly experience the same thing generally.
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Hi, I’m a victim of this quackery TMS crap in Japan. I have ADHD and TMS is NOT approved by neither the FDA in America nor the medical authorities in Japan to treat ADHD. My mind is so chaotic now after treatment it’s unreal. My ADHD is WORSE. forgive my capitalization of some words, but I’m very angry. TMS is specifically approved to treat only depression and a few other disorders. I am planning to sue these careless motherf****** who compromise other people’s LIFELONG health for evil profit. This is evil. I am interested in hunting for communication with potential whistleblowers from people who work in TMS facilities and also gathering testimonies from other victims. If anyone, including the moderator, would like to potentially collaborate, please contact me at [email protected]
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Emanuel,
I am really sorry to hear about this. I had not heard form folks in Japan yet, I was hoping they were more restrictive on the practice there since it is being abused so severely.
I really hope you get some traction on legal matters there. I have no idea what the legal precedent and burden of proof is there. Feel free to reach out here if there is anything you think I can help with. If there was something specific I can think of I will reach out. I covered most of my proof for harm in my other piece here. https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/01/tms-hurt/
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I’m so very sorry this happened to you.
I did 27 sessions of TMS with zero results. I was shocked at the unprofessional way the staff was. It was during COVID and they rarely followed protocol.
I asked several times how much training the techs got, but it was always evaded. Interesting.
My tech was nice, but clueless. I went in about half way through and she asked me how I was doing. I told her depressed. She actually said to me “Why? Because it’s raining?” I mean HELLO! this is why I’m here. Very frustrating. One of the techs was downright rude and filled in for a session and almost zapped me out of the chair!
I do not believe they tell the truth about side effects or rates of success. You are lucky not to have side effects, and they ramp up the success rate so that you practically feel like a failure if you don’t respond.
I would never do it again. I was suicidal and desperate. I think they should all be closed down.
Best of wishes to you!
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Thank you so much for sharing Molly!
I could not agree more, and I am really amazed that the procedure is so invasive and they don’t require any significant training or education of the CNS to administer it. They have no clue when people are exhibiting even the most severe neurological symptoms of harm.
I am sorry to hear your experience was so bad, I wish i could say it was uncommon.
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Hi James,
I’m hoping that life’s been good (or at least better) for you since your initial injury.
I commented a few years ago asking about the progress you’ve made recovering from TMS. I just wanted to come back to hear if you’ve made any further progress since I last commented, which was around the end of 2021.
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Wyatt,
Thank you for taking a continued interest. Things were relatively unchanged until I did a 23 day water fast last year(You drink only distilled water, no food of any kind) and I made huge improvements to my mood. I was experiencing inner akathisia at the time I started the fast as well, and it has been a year since, and I have had full remission of the Akathisia. So it has been a lot better in many ways for the last year.
Somethings have still lingered though, like the tinnitus, vestibular issues, pain, fasiculations etc but they are a lot more bearable when emotionally you are more balanced. I am hoping that with less stress I may see improvement in those other areas. I also feel that if I can beat Akathisia, I can beat anything but we shall see.
Thank you for continuing to take an interest. I am hoping many others out there are seeing improvements too over time. Feel free to ask me anything else you have questions about.
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Hi James, glad to see your still around and getting the word out about this ‘treatment’.
I find myself wondering about the large increase in people seeking ‘mental health help’ as a result of the ‘housing shortage’ and ‘cost of living crisis’ (Lifeline reporting an increase from 30,000 to more than 100,000 people using their “Lifeline” services [possibly without knowledge of the consequences which can occur as a result of seeking ‘help’]). Will this large increase in potential ‘consumers’ result in more people being harmed by TMS? It seems likely.
I was Interested in your 23 day fast. ”
I did a 23 day water fast last year(You drink only distilled water, no food of any kind) and I made huge improvements to my mood.”
No food for 23 days? AT ALL? Grounds for a mental health referral where I live according to our Chief Psychiatrist but ….. putting that aside. Fasting during the month of Ramadan seems to have an effect on peoples moods. I’ll be observing a little closer this year because all I have at present is my anecdotal evidence.
Anyhow, take care James and once again good to see your getting the information out.
Regards
Boans
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Howdy Boans,
It is great to hear from you. I hope you are as well as you can be.
I just got a message yesterday about the large influx of people into our TMS harm group. I think you are exactly right, the numbers will continue to swell as people are constantly funneled into our obtuse mental health system.
I could not be more pleased that you saw my comment about fasting. Yes it lasted 23 days and yes, I ingested nothing but distilled water and I was perfectly fine, well much better than fine, I had huge improvements after. I am not sure if you can listen to podcasts where you are at but I have a podcast called Unshadowed Thought on Youtube, amazon, google and spotify. On there I have a audio journal for every day that I did the fast and meditations on the fast itself and everything I learned about it. Pretty profound although I think most people think it boring. It seems the incredible is now seen as mundane and the mundane, incredible.
I think it is comical that you noticed that it would bring about a mental health referral there, I am sure you could end up IVC’ed(involuntarily committed) here for doing it, rather easily. In fact when I was deep into the fast, I would sometimes worry if I might end up in the hospital for something going wrong(a typical concern on the fast) and if that happened I was sure I would be seen as mentally ill, and subsequently locked up for doing something so reckless or even suicidal. The even more comical thing is that not only was I perfectly fine besides some discomfort, but I came out improved in ways medical doctors could not facilitate in the five previous years of trying. Now who is REALLY Bonkers?
One thing that convinced me to try was the huge historical religious and spiritual evidence base for fasting. There is a reason for these things. My friend, I am not sure we are any better off having abandoned the wisdom of our past for the intellectual ego we now value. I have not found any sound evidence of it. It may be that the true, honest and practical answers to our problems lie with the true traditions of our past or ancestors. They did far more with far less.
Take care of yourself as well, and thank you for your kind words.
James
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Mr James your story is concerning, in large part because I share a similar experience.
In the fall of 2021 I had severe anxiety which further developed into MDD. After a year, a hospital stay, and the usual trial and error of multitudes of medications I began looking at alternatives.
My PsyNP recommended TMS so I had a consult with a psychiatrist who had been performing the procedure for 10+ years. It was a commitment of time, discomfort, and money but I was desperate for a remedy. In November of 2022 we began.
My first impression was that it hurt. It’s like a small ball peen hammer being tapped on your scalp in the same spot for 20+ min a day for 6 weeks. However I initially felt the light-headed effects you experienced and had hope that meant it was working. After a couple of weeks I no longer felt light-headed but no lightening of symptoms either. To the contrary other symptoms worsened.
The anxiety became immeasurably worse. The cognitive anxiety remained but the physical symptoms were more frequent and exaggerated including trembling, racing heartbeat, digestive issues, rapid breathing, and involuntary muscle movements. I completely lost the ability to sleep or rest. It felt as if I was crawling out of my skin. I expressed these concerns to the doctor, who was puzzled, and ordered more treatments. We ended the course in December without any defined benefit and now encumbered by the physical symptoms.
After 6 months including another stay in the hospital plus 37 days in a long term care facility the symptoms finally began to subside. I’m happy to say I’m now free of the depression and anxiety but still need trazadone to sleep.
My personal issue with TMS is that it is a one-size-fits-all treatment. The treatment course for me was exactly the same as yours. Anyone with a mental health issue knows every case has its own unique challenges. A warning to others: TMS is not meant for anxiety and if you have these symptoms please deeply consider the potentially adverse side effects before committing to treatment.
Thanks again for your story James,
BGMo
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BGMo,
I cannot thank you enough for sharing your experience here, and I am glad you were able to read mine.
Did your other symptoms resolve as well, “trembling, racing heartbeat, digestive issues, rapid breathing, and involuntary muscle movements”?
I am glad things have cleared up for you as well. That is not anything anyone ever wants to be apart of
– James
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Reading your story (and others like this) I can’t help but to be reminded of how little we know about the brain, and how arrogant it is to think otherwise.
Fiddle this, fiddle that – see if this works, try something else. It’s arrogant – and desperate, really.
And here we are, getting ready for Neuralink? What could possibly go wrong?
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I was considering getting TMS Therapy but after reading your story it scared me out of it and I found other ways to deal with depression. However, it occured to me to comment on something that recently struck my curiousity. How did you manage to write this all considering all the side effects that you suffered?
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Glad to hear you did not go through with it, but I know it is a hard decision to make since we are usually in a difficult spot to even consider it.
This is a great question and I have been asked it several times.
A few things factored in, the most important was all the experience I had in business and writing in all the previous years of my life, so writing it was not anything I had to learn to do or expend large quantities of difficult learning on. It actually felt very natural, the nights I spent working on it, the words poured onto the page, as well as the tears. So I was also processing what had happened to me in a way I had not previously as well which helped get it done. All these things flowed together and it appears it was the right thing to do at the time.
As for how I summoned the cognition and the energy – It did not take much cognition and I was already endlessly talking through these things in therapy and with other group members so they were at the forefront of my mind. The energy came from the relentless topsy turvy oscillating energy spasms of neurological injury. It is apparent to everyone observing these types of injuries now that as Robert Whitaker wrote in Anatomy of an Epidemic, that, you end up Wired and Tired through this injury. Clinicians often call it Bipolar, but I am not sure they understand its true form. The nervous system can no longer regulate itself so it is constantly in fight or flight. Which ends up giving you extreme amounts of energy when you have something to do or get anxious or panic, this is then followed by a crash where you are exhausted but still panicked. Its incredibly unpleasant but is maybe the principle hallmark of this injury in hindsight.
So I rode the panic, insomnia and the overabundance of energy through this piece and dealt with the respective crashes(extreme fatigue and exhaustion) that came from it, although at the time I had no idea what was really going on, at least certainly not like I do now.
Man people seem fine to others through their injury but what they are experiencing is incredibly intense and many of us that pay close attention to neurological phenomena and physiology can see it for what it is. There are signs and evidence everywhere, and everyone ends up manifesting in very similar ways, if not virtually identical in many cases.
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Hi James,
Sorry to hear about your adverse reaction to TMS. I just completed a 2-month course of TMS and stumbled upon this article while reading up on an unrelated question. I had some thoughts to share and some questions for you. I hope you get the chance to reply.
There are different kinds of TMS, so I can only speak for my own experience with excitatory deep TMS for MDD. As someone who has experienced hearing loss due to acoustic trauma, I understand the pain of experiencing tinnitus and vertigo. I wonder how much of your adverse reaction could be due to the noise exposure damaging your ears. Many of the adverse reactions I’ve read about have to do with physical discomfort being under-reported by patients or providers not being appropriately cautious in regard to patient complaints of discomfort, by adjusting the power level, coil positioning, or aborting the treatment protocol.
As someone with a scientific background… I wonder if the problem here is that there is not adequate research or screening for potentially severe TMS counter-indications, namely the risk of having a certain amount of metal in the head for whatever reason, which might cause damage due to getting hot or moving around inside the body (similar to what can happen with MRI). But your neuro imaging was clean, suggesting your physical brain health appeared to be within normal limits. Did you ever get a second opinion on your neurological workup? I suppose it’s good news if your brain appears to be within healthy limits, but the cognitive impairment is concerning. I too have felt decline in cognitive impairment (before TMS) which may be related to things like depression or substance use. Mental illness such as depression and anxiety are associated with negative impact on cognitive function. Respectfully, I wonder if you may have experienced distress around your discomfort / hearing damage from TMS, which led to psychological factors negatively impacting your cognitive functioning.
One thing to consider is that TMS is meant to provide relief of acute symptoms. In excitatory TMS, the induced neuro-plasticity works synergistically with medication and therapy (and other self-work) to reduce symptoms to the point that the patient is able to get a better grip on their life and form healthier behaviors, and reducing reliance on medical interventions. Pardon the analogy… If unhealthy conditions in your life are a “faucet” left open, and the burden of mental illness is represented by the puddle of water from the overflowing faucet, therapy like TMS or pills can only help mop up the water… the only way (if you’re lucky) to shut off the faucet is to change your life and behaviors. You may have had a bad experience with TMS but don’t beat yourself up too bad for it. You and your care team did what you did with good intentions. Yes capitalistic healthcare is fraught with ethical problems, but, most providers are just people with good intentions. Medicine is not perfect but often better than the alternative (uncontrolled disease). Even crude medicine from past decades or centuries was the best thing available at the time. Now 4 years after the article came out, in your personal health journey, do you think medicine has been more helpful than harmful? Have you sought second opinions with any success?
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You believe that Major Depressive Disorder is a “disease?” That any of these “mental illnesses” are disease processes? What, then, is the cause of this “disease”?
I do agree that the faucet needs to be turned off, and the mess cleaned up. But disease? I believe that’s a fiction created to sell procedures and drugs.
I’ll stop there.
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Thanks for your comment, Jan. I’m referring to “mental illness” and “disease” in the general sense, to refer to a health problem. I do appreciate your interesting questions, but, I didn’t mean to invoke this sort of debate. It seems that you agree with me on the practical aspect that I am focused on. There is a problem. Problems can be addressed at the source or at the symptom. I think medical therapies (drugs, TMS), despite some risk, are likely be helpful with managing symptoms, which in turn may enable more transformative behavioral work to address the source.
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Hey John – just to inform you, you are commenting in a community which has been harmed – not only by the drugs and treatments – but also by the labels and diag-nonsense.
The premise of this article – and the many comments – seems to be that you are one of the fortunate ones. There are many cowboys in the field, with little oversight – and people are being harmed.
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Thanks. I understand people reading my comments may have been harmed by drugs and other imperfect medical practices. I myself have too been harmed by drugs and the mistakes of clinicians. I’ve also worked in drug development and understand that drugs can play a helpful role in addressing unmet needs of individuals. I’ve been clear in my comments that I don’t believe drugs are a “magic bullet”, but rather, one of many tools in the tool kit. As you say, the true problem is bad acting, such as the cowboy practitioners making play-things of their patients.
Personally, I wouldn’t venture to make such assumptions about the individual experiences of “community” members commenting on this article, on the page of a nonprofit whose mission is to challenge the status-quo of the drug-based psychiatric treatment paradigm.
Statistically, am I a lucky one? That’s a huge assumption (but, for the sake of dialogue, I won’t be hung up on that). Or is it that many of us have been “unlucky”, while the vast majority of individuals obtain therapeutic benefit via standard care, which outweighs the side effects? If we strip away all the “bad acting” in healthcare, what remains is a scientifically based system of medicine. As long as treatment outcomes are “better” than uncontrolled medical problems, treatment would be scientifically indicated. In the days when mercury injections were used to treat venereal disease, it was barbaric and unhealthy but still the best thing available at the time.
Please forgive any… deficiencies… in my tone. I am autistic and this comment is well-intended, as I’m sure was yours.
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I am curious John M, if it is not rather the black and white we are trying to see in the medical systems efficacy but rather the currency that human neurology and the CNS has.
Perhaps your experience with autism bears some insight into that fact.
You may appear to be the lucky one statistically or rather the “norm” of people who do not experience extreme neurological unpleasantness as a result of western medical care, but what if each of us only had a finite amount of neurological currency and once that currency ran out, the system that governed all sensation and regulation in the body broke or to put it another way became dysregulated…
What if the difference between us appeared black and white but really it was just a matter of having understood through experience the honest nature of the human nervous system?
This paradigm and the mistaken way western medicine views it became apparent to me when I began talking to people who were functioning fairly well with minor problems one day and then just a little later were compelled to and then inevitable ended their own lives when they admitted to me taking their own lives was the last thing they wanted to do…
There is a lot of controversy, nuance and opinions around this topic, which may be the most important issue of our time for this society. Perhaps it is a lack of perspective and understanding that is preventing us from making good decisions around it. I once suffered from a lack of understanding but once I let go of my ego, I was able to see it for what it was. There is far too much ego in western medicine for it to progress safely, at least in a broad sense. But as one of my favorite quotes goes,
“To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.”
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“Personally, I wouldn’t venture to make such assumptions about the individual experiences of “community” members commenting on this article”
As someone whose new here, probably best you don’t. Others who are aware of peoples stories …… seems fair they do.
“Or is it that many of us have been “unlucky”, while the vast majority of individuals obtain therapeutic benefit via standard care, which outweighs the side effects?”
Have you ever walked the corridors of the locked ward and seen the dribbling messes these ‘medical practitioners’ call successful outcomes? And the term “side effects”? There are no side effects….. only effects. I treated my ‘social anxiety disorder’ with half a bottle of scotch for years (my medicine)…… until the side effect of alcoholism got in the way. It couldn’t be caused by the ‘medicine’ of course. (by the way I don’t drink alcohol despite what the Community Nurse swore to on his statutory declaration. He just makes stuff up to deceive others into false beliefs ….. with disasterous effects on others lives)
Great response James.
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Hey John M –
Yes, medical treatments have been horrific over history. The damages now are often concealable – or at least delayable. (drugs and treatments are, on average, only tested for 6 weeks) As James pointed out, sometimes damage from TMS can take 6 months to manifest. And may still be undetectable.
In my experience, damage from the various drugs might take 10 years of drugging before you start to notice weird health problems – autoimmune dysfunctions, cardiac problems, endocrine disruption, metabolic problems. But the damage is real, whether you “benefitted” from the treatment or not. It’s just that so few people connect these problems to the psych drugs, because – psych drugs only affect your brain, right?
What you call “tools in a toolkit” – we also call “tools.”
We call them tools of control and manipulation when you behave in ways that are uncomfortable or inconvenient.
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Hi Jan,
In regard to long-term adverse health effects, I think we agree in many ways. I have worked for a drug developer which took drug safety and pharmacovigilance very seriously. I do believe regulators do not do enough to ensure that these practices are universal, to sufficiently protect patients from long term adverse effects. Unfortunately, our for-profit world has all sorts of disastrous consequences on human health, and on the safety and effectiveness of medicine, especially as it relates to chronic health issues.
In regard to manipulation/control… I do believe that all people have things like rights, autonomy, agency, even if they are “crazy”. Often times, society and/or law draws the line when it comes to harming the self or others, but sometimes there is over-reach and real harm is done to avoid discomfort or inconvenience, as you say. I do sympathize with individuals who have had such difficult experiences. Still, it’s a murky subject that I don’t feel knowledgeable enough to debate here. I can say for myself, that I value my own pursuit of fulfillment within this flawed modern life, and medicine has been instrumental in my ongoing recovery from a severe episode of MDD which was taking me further and further into the darkness and away from my values. I don’t feel that I am being controlled or manipulated by drugs. Although I do feel a bit manipulated or controlled to be stuck in this capitalistic world of empires we have inherited, where civilization imposes so many unnatural health constraints on humanity.
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“Mental illness such as depression and anxiety are associated with negative impact on cognitive function.” There seems to be an assumption that ‘mental illness’ has been clearly defined in this statement, and that correlations with “negative impacts” are valid? Steve is always much better at tearing these types of straw men apart ….. Steve?
“Pardon the analogy… If unhealthy conditions in your life are a “faucet” left open, and the burden of mental illness is represented by the puddle of water from the overflowing faucet, therapy like TMS or pills can only help mop up the water… the only way (if you’re lucky) to shut off the faucet is to change your life and behaviors.”
Analogy after metaphor? lol I prefer my meat and veg and then my jelly and custard but …… I know such an analogy applied to my situation was that the ‘faucet’ was working just fine (see the report of the Consultant Psychiatrist who examined me after I had been arbitrarily detained with a lie to Police), then ‘mental health professionals’ took a sledge hammer to the wall and the ‘faucet’ and MADE the puddle (to conceal the criminal conduct of the public officers concerned Community Nurse [Procuring, conspire to pervert, etc etc], Senior Medical Officer [forged prescription for the benzos, conceal evidence of criminal offence, conspire to pervert etc etc] Lets not mention the acts of torture….. my doesn’t that make their sphincters go all tight), then claimed that they were merely mopping up the mess they found on arrival. With a little bit of document “editing” of course.
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Thanks for your comment, boans. No need to gang up on me and take me apart. I’m not arguing and there is no straw man. I am simply relaying what I have been told as a patient by various Doctors from McLean Hospital and the Mass General Brigham system. Severe episodes of major depression are associated with negative impact to cognitive function. IQ testing during neuropsychological screening is one example of how this is measurable in a clinical setting. I am not an expert; I don’t know to what degree the association is statistically significant.
I’m sorry to hear about your experiences. It sounds terrible. I won’t pretend to understand all the nuances, but, I agree that “the medical system” is capable of causing harm through things like abuse, error, greed, etc.
I appreciate the challenge to my analogy. You are right — sometimes people have a puddle at their feet and it doesn’t seem to be coming from factors to do with behaviors, lifestyle, environment, etc. I forgot to account for something more intrinsic like a genetic or developmental factor. I do believe drugs can help someone feel well enough to engage with deeper changes to address the source of illness. But the existence of such drugs doesn’t justify abusively medicating patients into oblivion and taking away their agency. I hope you are getting support with your situation and I wish you the best.
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“Severe episodes of major depression are associated with negative impact to cognitive function.”
Anything to do with the drugs which are prescribed for these bouts of major depression?
“I forgot to account for something more intrinsic like a genetic or developmental factor.”
Read Jay Josephs latest article. Quite interesting on both the I.Q. AND the “genetic factor”.
“I hope you are getting support with your situation and I wish you the best.”
Not the support I’d like (legal representation that doesn’t conspire with the State to conceal human rights abuses [arbitrary detentions and torture] and convenience killings [“unintended negative outcomes” to use the euphemism of the Law Centre] to cover up such vile conduct) or need but ……. I made the mistake of thinking that there were people who would stand up if citizens were being arbitrarily detained and tortured……. of course, they didn’t stand up when the National Socialist’s murdered a whole bunch of people (though like the ‘mentally ill’, they could easily be defined as non human. Hey in my State they simply call the police and tell them they are mental patients and like magic they are. They don’t even need to examine the person before police are told they’re a “patient” and to cause an acute stress reaction to have them talk).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9UQKBUrsg
How to cause an acute stress reaction and force your potential patient to speak to you. This guy was a ‘patient’, though I note they induced a coma to allow the legal narrative to be “edited” beofre he gets to speak to anyone.
Having knowledge that I would tell them to piss off (a right for a non patient UNLESS you have been taken into custody by police and a request made for an ‘assessment’.) made it necessary to ‘spike’ me with date rape drugs and have an acute stress reaction caused by police…….. and then use them as what looks like a referral source by having them deliver to the hospital locked ward…… and it all appears to be lawful. And then the ‘chemical restraint’ (enough drugs to lay an elephant out for a month) is administered once your thrown out of the police van at the sally port and jumped by the 12 ‘mental health professionals’
I guess i’d paraphrase Shk al Hasanat in his shortest khutbah……. if all the deaths, injuries and destruction of families caused by psychiatry (and associated ‘health professionals’) couldn’t wake up the community, what impact could my words possibly make? What more do I say, and to whom?
I’ll wish you well too John, and hope that the scientist looks a little closer at the way ‘mental illness’ is fabricated. Consider, they managed to cure homosexuals overnight, after subjecting them to ECTs and chemical castrations for years. All it took was a vote by 12 white guys who all pretty much went to the same schools.
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Hi Boans,
The negative impact on cognitive function is without regard to medical intervention. Of course some therapies may carry risks of adverse cognitive impact, but that’s not what I’m referring to. Providers should have strict practices in place to ensure ethical treatment where patients are educated on risk:benefit and informed consent to be treated is standard. I don’t mean to poke a hornet’s nest of ethical issues around lack of informed consent / involuntary treatment. I don’t know enough about that to offer much in this discussion, but, it’s awful that you and others have had to suffer all sorts of horrors involuntarily. People living in a society with rule of law should be protected by and accountable to the law of the land. It seems that humanity’s preferred approach is to let people be unless they pose a certain threat of harm to themselves or others. I think we have a right to be ourselves, if it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. I should be allowed to exist as my extremely depressed, non-functional, suicidal self. But I would prefer to manage my mental health, despite the risks, so that I can seek joy and fulfillment in life. It sounds like our situations are quite different so I don’t mean to say that what works for me would also work for you. I sympathize with the issues that you raise.
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“People living in a society with rule of law should be protected by and accountable to the law of the land.”
Yes, wouldn’t that be nice. Of course our Prime Minister says that “Australians are a people who value a rule of law” He just doesn’t say that we don’t have one in this country. Mainly because the Fuhrerprinzip trumps the rule of law, and our ‘elected representatives’ are “editing” legal narratives to conceal their abuse of human rights and the laws of the land. Not too dissimilar to the methods used by the National Sociaists in Germany….. we’ve even passed Euthanasia Laws which, should you get time to dig into ‘informed consent’ leaves ‘patients’ in an extremely vulnerable position. When your right to refuse treatment can be subverted very easily, and killing is a form of treatment….?
Still, the Corrina Horvath case at the U.N. opened a can of worms for our State governments who didn’t wish to be held accountable for the criminal actions of public officers…… the buck was meant to stop wayyyyy before a Minister could be part of a ‘joint enterprise’.
Thus the blind eye to convenience killings in the E.D. means that the Minister can be held responsible??? Oh no, we’ll need a legal mechanism to ensure that can’t occur……. Euthanaisa laws with more than a 100 protections (that don’t actually work unless you have a rule of law) passed without any resistance. These laws which more than 87% of the population wanted (or so we were told, with no data ever being presented despite requests) and which now we find are not being used by those who it was claimed wanted them. I think back to the “added protections” and the way the new Mental Health Act was presented…… not telling the public who it was being legally protected (doctors who wished to use ECTs on children). But we all want ‘added protections’ right?
“I think we have a right to be ourselves, if it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others.”
Couldn’t agree more. And when I was having my rights infringed upon by a private clinic psychologist conspiring to stupefy and commit an indictable offence, and to have me tortured (by definition of Article 1 of the Convention) because I didn’t wish to speak to an abuser, I found it difficult to believe the amount of support she would receive from the Police and Mental Health Services……. torture and kidnapping goes ‘private’? Use the resources of the State to commit your offences and they will cover up for you? The State provides ‘windows of opportunity’ to snuff anyone who complains about the ‘service? And then has to introduce Euthanasia laws when one ‘slips through the net’? ‘Very clever indeed. And well, there were people escaping and telling people about what the National Socialist’s were doing but it might interfere with agreements to actually raise the issue with them.
Our Prophet (saw) said that the greatest form of jihaad is to speak a word of truth to an oppressive ruler. The concealing of the truth by the State an offence to God….. but it also exposes them as unbelievers. And they will no doubt be held to account at some point. Though I’m sure they have their ‘loopholes’ ready to present to God……. unfortunately He can’t be deceived or threatened in the same way these cowards who call themselves ‘advocates’ can.
I do hope you read a few more articles here at MiA because I get the impression your an intelligent person. That’s what is needed to make changes, not these slippery snake con artists using the Police as their own personal political thugs.
Best of luck.
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John M,
Thanks for posting here. I will answer or comment on some of the things you have said in order from top to bottom.
As for the adverse reactions in regards to the audible loud noise from the machine. At first I thought this phenomena was possible but after further research and discussion, this is least likely or at least more rare. I discovered that this issue is actually a result of damage to the auditory cortex within the brain, and specifically not the ear or its inner physiology. The same number of people are experiencing tinnitus and these other neurological phenomena related to hearing damage and loss who both had the ear plugs in and did not, they are also experiencing the same intensity. When we expand our perspective to consider this idea we see the same thing in ECT and other forms of head injury.
In regards to your second paragraph, adequate research has certainly been done and this is where things get a bit wonky. So if you look at TMS as an application of non ionizing radiation to the human body, which it is, we actually know that the reports of TMS harms are actually very well researched and established. However when researchers try and change the dichotomy of how we see TMS as something different than the application of Non ionizing radiation to the human body, as if it was something else – which it is not, it uses the same physics, then they try and reinvent the wheel and reset our view of what is happening. It is within this context that they can now say they are not observing side effects because they are not looking for or are aware of what neurological effects of this kind of energy look like. If i gave them the benefit of the doubt and decided they were being honest about their observations, I would not expect a medical researcher to be read into electrical physics and the corresponding biomedicine to the extent that they would know that the most prominent manifestation of harm from TMS could be aggregated three to six months after the treatment. Most symptoms do not even present fully until that time period is over, not to mention that cognitive changes make it incredibly hard for patients to even report what they are experiencing, which matches head injury criteria quite perfectly in most cases. And so, while we know very well the effects of TMS injury, it is not being translated into hard and fast rules of engagement for both contraindication criteria or observations for clinicians administering TMS.
I have gotten several opinions and as I have sought out professionals that understand head injury I was able to get medical validation for my injuries. There is a caveat with that, there are still no diagnostics that firmly show PCS or other repetitive head injury syndromes until autopsy. Some people are unfortunate enough to have clear signs on diagnostics like FMRI, SPECT, specialized MRI’s or even hormone markers in blood tests but the vast majority of us will not get that validation.
When you inquire as to the psychological factors impacting my cognition, I am sure you are correct, but I am venturing to guess the lens through which you are considering that significance might be skewed a bit. I am sure in the past and currently regular mental discomfort slows my mind, however there is a clear difference for those who are talking about changes after TMS. TMS sets your mind to Intense panic and Fatigue(often mistakenly referred to as depression) that alternates many times a day and does not relent, if people were to measure it on a scale of 1 to 10, most of them would say 7 or higher and that they do not get a reprieve from it as the days wear on, this kind of extreme wear on the human psyche from constant fight or flight of the nervous system creates extreme mental states and exhaustion that pushes humans to their very limits. It is when we are at these limits that we see just how poor cognition can really get. So when we consider the cognitive decline associated with TMS there are many factors that should be considered, but we should definitely consider the contrast of typical cognitive dips from stress, anxiety and depression, and the kind of serious cognitive impairment that results from the extreme states brought on by TMS injury, there is a very significant difference. For anyone trying to understand it, it is a great idea to consider how they may differ and what they look like. What I experienced was extreme cognitive impairment that put me in the lowest statistical group for cognitive functioning in certain areas when evaluated by a neuropsychologist. When simple math or trying to listen to short story becomes a problem, it is quite different than having a day at work where my attention span was shorter and I had to ask someone to repeat something once or twice, maybe because I was depressive or over stressed at work for the last few months.
This last paragraph is particularly revealing and interesting to me, and I am glad to offer my perspective in contrast to what may or may not be your own, but in all honesty I feel a bit honored you would ask my opinion on the matter, and maybe for that reason alone I will not spare you any important detail of my thoughts.
At this point I have experienced a great many things with this medical model, and I know I will learn even more than I already have.
At the moment I see two paradigms in western medicine, the treatment of acute physiological trauma and of everything else or the treatment of what might call chronic conditions including mental discomfort(mental illness to some).
When it comes to the treatment of acute physiological trauma and the use of physical medicine, things go quite well with exception to the over use of medications and chemicals on it patients – opioids, antibiotics and such but over all considering the alternative, its quite a productive advancement.
The other side of the coin however – the treatment of chronic conditions and mental health, is a complete and utter failure with a casualty count of self inflicted injury that exceeds what is likely millions of times of harm over benefit. The cost of damaging the human mind and body with this type of sinister injury has an incalculable cost. People who cannot balance work and life because they are raised and indoctrinated to work harder than what their human mind and body can afford, are riddled with unpleasant mental states that persist, which leads to a break down of their physical bodies which they are then treated ineffectively for with extremely volatile and dangerous drugs and devices. As they continue to breakdown and are transformed into something that is not within natural human design, anyone who cares for or is involved with their lives is bound to watch and experience their own form of observational stress and concern, knowing they are involved in the same system for which there does not seem to be any good answer for escape or healthy living. This depraved merry go round goes up and down and around, and yet a very simple answer could be stopping the merry go round and getting off.
You have asked me a simple question and the simple answer is that simply not participating in the treatment of chronic disease, injury or mental health is a far better alternative than ever stepping foot within its boarders. Observing a simple natural life is far more effective and safe.
It presents a kind of humor – is it really that people are so mettlesome they would rather dabble in the losing game of seeking a medical intervention than accepting a natural course?
Thank you again for posting here and the resulting inquiry. I sincerely hope the next few months go well for you and the years that follow.
PS – I tried to respond to your original comment but it does not seem to have processed over the last two days through MIA, So i moved it here.
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James,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Off-target action on the auditory complex seems like a solid hypothesis to explain some of your adverse reactions to do with hearing and vertigo. In TMS they worry so much about off-target action on the motor cortex but perhaps don’t have sufficient controls in place to safeguard other brain structures.
Non-ionizing radiation includes a number of energy sources such as sound waves and visible light whose potential for harm is dose-dependent. I would think that in TMS the potential for harm is to do with the induced electrical pulsation within the brain, or trauma from movement of magnetic material within the brain.
I hesitate to over-simplify your perspectives with a simplistic response, but, I think we can agree that the traditional paradigm for management of chronic health issues in western medicine is… well, simply put, it’s not good. And, I agree very much that a big part of the problem is that our civilization imposes on health in an unnatural way, leading humanity to expose itself to all sorts of risk associated with medical intervention. Is it worth it or not? It depends on so many factors. I have not always had a positive experience with medicine, but, my medical resources have been instrumental in my ongoing recovery from a severe MDD episode and now I am much happier than I was previously, and feeling well enough to seek fulfillment in my life while managing my responsibilities. Perhaps I could have accomplished the same thing by living a more naturalistic lifestyle, but, I don’t want to do that.
Thanks for the well wishes. Wishing you the best in your journey.
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