Sascha Altman Dubrul: Interview at Esalen Institute

Sascha Altman Dubrul, co-founder of The Icarus Project, an international community support network and media project working to redefine the culture of mental health, discusses his work during a summit of leaders from the mental health movement at Esalen Institute in Big Sur, CA.

In December 2012, a group of nearly 40 leaders from the mental health movement congregated at the storied Esalen Institute in Big Sur. Here, Dubrul talks about that experience, as well as his work and upcoming book “Maps to the Other Side: Adventures of a Bipolar Cartographer.” Sascha is a mental health activist, writer, farmer and was the bass player of the classic 90s ska-punk band “Choking Victim.” He and fellow Icarista Jacks McNamara will be embarking on a book tour starting this spring. This is latest in a series of interviews which will be featured on


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  1. I love Esalen… I wanna go! Who out the Summit wish list of attendees together? I feel so left out. I have been throwing around a venue at Esalen for the last 3 users with a handful of friends to discuss and summit on the state and particulars of peer issues relevant to our circle.

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  2. I love this from the Esalen site….

    Must I Get Naked? Is Esalen a Nudist Colony?

    The hot springs at Esalen have been in use for over 6,000 years and are clothing-optional. Nudity is common in the baths and the swimming pool but by no means mandatory.

    We encourage each individual to find their own edge between comfort and growth, either wearing a swimsuit or not, knowing that the environment we strive for at Esalen is one of personal sanctuary and respect for the human body.

    For those who do choose to use the springs, in a bathing suit or without, daily or once in a lifetime — the hot springs experience embodies much of what continues to make Esalen a singular place of adventure, contemplation, and community.

    Rough translation – It’s a nudist colony.

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    • Haha. When I was headed there myself, it was that one and the ‘Can I bring my stash’ questions that indeed really stood out. 😉 I’d actually say that it’s not a nudist colony on the whole… but there are some decidedly nude areas.

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  3. Tricky….I like to take my time and get to know people slowly…

    I guess I’m just repressed… I have trouble taking people who wear shorts seriously so being totally in the buff could present some hurdles requiring mental gymnastics and compartmentalization skills…

    Sounds like you went prepared for fun….

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  4. Let’s not go getting all gaga over Esalen without a closer look at their Agenda, Please?

    Esalen supports Agenda 21

    “At the moment, it is probable that the indirect effect of civilisation is dysgenic instead of eugenic; and in any case it seems likely that the dead weight of genetic stupidity, physical weakness, mental instability, and disease-proneness, which already exist in the human species, will prove too great a burden for real progress to be achieved. Thus even though it is quite true that any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable.” – 21”

    San Francisco’s psych infrastructure hies itself off to Esalen annually to watch feature films as Psychiatric ‘Research’.

    That same Psych Infrastructure views itself as the ‘Illuminati’ based on its incredibly foolish movie reviews.

    and Somewhere in the back of their little Illuminati Siskel and Ebert act they got it into their little New Age elitist heads that they were super human enough to ignore and violate Federal Criminal Law regarding the Making of False Statements Related to HealthCare Matters.

    If you want to go to Esalen and take in the weather and the view, fine, but be aware that Esalen’s New Age nonsense supports the elimination of ‘Genetic Deadweight’ from humanity’s gene pool, and it’s quite comfortable with hosting Psychs who actually believe that they’re the Illuminati, and that Federal Law doesn’t apply to them.

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  5. If people want to get naked, smoke dope and mull over how the world might be a better place that sounds good to me, even if I don’t want to join in.

    Agenda 21 is non binding. Sometimes laws are passed using the democratic process that are congruent with it but thats not a conspiracy. It just means that someone has lost the political argument.

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  6. Whether Agenda 21 is a binding treaty or not is irrelevant.

    It’s already being implemented.

    “Agenda 21 incorporates within it all preceding language from various UN land, environment, biodiversity, social, and economic reform programs. Last year at Copenhagen it was hoped that all nations would legally bind themselves to Agenda 21 by signing the UNFCCC. I know many people were greatly concerned that Obama would sign this treaty, but I knew he would not because he had absolutely no need to do something so overtly when Agenda 21 is, and has been, in full operation in the United States ever since G.H. Bush signed it in 1992. Although Agenda 21 is not a treaty and therefore is not legally binding, it hardly makes any difference if the policy is adopted and incorporated into every Federal Agency and is the driving force behind all policy and legislation. In order to re-educate the world (and our children) the Earth Charter runs concurrent with Agenda 21 so as to indoctrinate the world consciousness to embrace ecological stewardship and global citizenship. The Earth Charter was adopted by UNESCO and signed by G.W. Bush in 2000. The Earth Charter also helps foster the notion of Mother Earth as the Supreme Deity. There are literally 1,000′s of NGOs dedicated to this singular purpose. The program for implementing the Earth Charter is called the Earth Charter Initiative . Following are just a few of these ‘initiative’ NGOs that have been created by Club of Rome members.”

    “Mother Earth as the Supreme Deity”

    And that doesn’t bother you, or set off any alarm bells?

    Genetic Deadweight.

    Hitler cleaned out the (non-existent) genetic deadweight. The Hitler Youth were originally formed as an Eco-fanatic corps to Save the Sacred Soil of the Fatherland.

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  7. @dbunker

    I have investigated this quotation

    “At the moment, it is probable that the indirect effect of civilisation is dysgenic instead of eugenic; and in any case it seems likely that the dead weight of genetic stupidity, physical weakness, mental instability, and disease-proneness, which already exist in the human species, will prove too great a burden for real progress to be achieved. Thus even though it is quite true that any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable”

    It’s from this document written in 1946

    It’s on page 21.

    The author also talks about the “need to maintain diversity in the gene pool”. The whole section sounds very tinny on the ear in 2013. It’s a good find but while I hope you don’t take this a as a personal attack in anyway I do feel that in the context of the whole document, the time it was written, the intention behind the whole document, the phrase written in 1946 is essentially a historical oddity and irrelevant.

    I think people should look at the original and make up their own minds if this obscure quotation (clearly out of date) is seriously something to worry about.

    If I thought that it represented a train of thought that was current I would be worried to. I don’t believe it is on reading and I don’t believe anyone seriously still thinks this way so for myself I’m not going to worry about it.

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  8. Woah! I hadn’t checked the comments on this video and until now and I have no idea what Agenda 21 has to do with anything I’m talking about above!

    The political relevance of Esalen and the “New Age” movement in general are pretty minimal.
    I’m a strong believer in the power of good stories, and there are some amazing stories from the history of the Human Potential Movement that I think are relevant for a modern day Radical Mental Health Movement. I write about it at length here if anyone’s interested:

    Jen Pardon: I’ve been hearing your feelings of being left out in the list of attendees. I would suggest you write a message to Michael Cornwall (who is a blogger on this site) and see what he has to say. Esalen, by definition, is kind of an elitist place. It’s not the place to have a big gathering because it’s so cost prohibitive. I selfishly am glad that in this case I’m not one of the people in charge of organizing the retreat because I’m way too busy. Sorry its taken me so long to post up here!!

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  9. Thank you for your reply, Mr Dubrul;

    However, the ‘New Age’ is indeed a problem. Modern Psychoanalysis festered in a ‘New Age’ which embraced all manner of arrant, bald faced bamboozle.

    The Intelligent Deity was replaced with spooks and hobgoblins by side show carnival hucksters divining inner spirituality through séances.

    Harmless on the surface, but a deadly poison within.

    It is neither my purpose or desire to sell religious beliefs to You or anyone else, but History’s eye is unflinching.

    Every society which has replaced God, (or the gods: the Roman Republic became the Roman Empire) with nothing/itself/the machinery of corrupt Government, has descended into mass murdering barbarism.

    The horrors of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Communist China and so many more all found it necessary to push the Intelligent Deity out to replace that Deity with the State.

    Psychology and Psychiatry both are firmly rooted in Humanism. Check the title bar.

    “American Humanist Association, Good Without A God”

    Some of Thomas Jefferson’s thoughts on religious freedom are quoted in the first of my following 6 posts.

    This Klatch of Esalen Siskel and Ebert Illuminati are what goes on (or Went on) at Esalen. They are the ‘New Age’ of our day. Do you believe that They are going to effect a reduction in the ‘Symptoms’ (IE: Their Opinions) of someone else’s diseased thoughts and moods by watching The Wizard of OZ, Tootsie, and an adulatory, leftist salute to Che Guevara, For those other people?

    Che was nothing to salute. He was a mass murderer.

    Hitler’s 3rd Reich was all about a ‘New Age’ and to deny the copiously well documented evidence of it requires either a 24/7 Blindfold or a 24/7 Chemical Sedation/Time Release Lobotomy. If you’ve never read ‘The Men Behind Hitler’ I’ve re-posted it in 9 installments with further links to verify and expand upon it.

    Please also see: ‘Hitler’s Unwanted Children’

    Evidence of the Nazi embrasure of a ‘New Age’ is readily and easily available online from any number of other sources.

    If anyone believes that we are not suffering the ravages of such thinking, and that ‘It Can’t Happen Here’ because this is America, I’d suggest they look up the American Eugenics movement which Inspired the Nazi’s implementation of their own.

    And if anyone believes that we are not suffering the ravages of such thinking today, In ‘It Can’t Happen Here’:

    I don’t care What other people believe: The Bible, the Watchtower, the Torah, or any other religious tome, but the ‘New Age’ does require the suppression of such beliefs, and down that road lies only the Super State which is where we are today.

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      • Mr Gilbert;

        I assure you that it is of the Utmost relevance.

        “Esalen Institute, commonly just called Esalen, is a residential community and retreat center in Big Sur, California, which focuses upon humanistic alternative education. Esalen is a nonprofit organization devoted to activities such as personal growth, meditation, massage, Gestalt, yoga, psychology, ecology, spirituality, and organic food. The institute offers more than 500 public workshops a year, in addition to conferences, research initiatives, residential work-study programs, and internships.[1]”

        Humanistic alternatives:

        Check the Title Bar: “Good Without A God” That’s as New Age/Nazi as it gets.

        American Law is founded upon Judeo/Christian beliefs. While Americans are guaranteed the Religious Freedom to be Atheists if they choose, Government is Expressly Prohibited from subsidizing those beliefs, pro or con.

        Every Society we have records of which has replaced God with Government has produced nothing but misery and hundreds of millions of graves.

        You, Mr Gilbert, would not be here commenting to begin with if we had not Subsidized the Humanistic, Psychological Scientism of a “Good Without A God”.

        Back to Esalen:

        Check the list of past teachers: Stanislav Grof is among them.

        “Grof is known for his early studies of LSD and its effects on the psyche—the field of psychedelic therapy. Building on his observations while conducting LSD research and on Otto Rank’s theory of birth trauma, Grof constructed a theoretical framework for pre- and perinatal psychology and transpersonal psychology in which LSD trips and other powerfully emotional experiences were mapped onto a person’s early fetal and neonatal experiences.[1] Over time, this theory developed into an in-depth “cartography” of the deep human psyche. Following the suppression of legal LSD use in the late 1960s, Grof went on to discover that many of these states of mind could be explored without drugs by using certain breathing techniques in a supportive environment.[2] He continues this work today under the title “Holotropic Breathwork”.”

        Holotropic Breathwork[1] is a practice that uses breathing and other elements to allow access to non-ordinary states for the purpose of self-exploration. It was developed by Stanislav Grof, M.D., Ph.D. and Christina Grof, Ph.D.[2] Holotropic breathing has some similarities to rebirthing-breathwork, but was developed independently.[citation needed] Holotropic Breathwork is intended as an approach to self-exploration and healing that integrates insights from modern consciousness research, anthropology, various depth psychologies, transpersonal psychology, Eastern spiritual practices, and mystical traditions of the world.[citation needed] The term holotropic means “moving toward wholeness” (from the Greek ὅλος holos “whole” and τρέπειν trepein “to turn or direct towards a thing”).

        The method comprises five elements: group process, intensified breathing (hyperventilation), evocative music, focused body work, and expressive drawing.

        Mr Gilbert:

        Grof was poisoning people with LSD and having them draw mandalas until the Feds put a stop to the LSD.

        Then, he replaced the LSD with having them hyperventilate while drawing mandalas.

        Please sit where you are and breath as rapidly and deeply as you can until you feel like passing out, While drawing Mandalas.

        There, did that make you feel ‘Mentally Healthy’? Did it pay off our National Debt? Did it rectify your issues with Forced Drugging?

        And Grof is just one of many Esalan teachers.

        Esalen has cultivated an Elitism based on ‘Spiritualism’, whatever That is, which has gladly played host to a huge portion of the San Francisco/UCSF ‘Mental Health’ crowd who believe that the elevated Bi-Polar Mood Swings they’ve self induced by watching Feature Films qualifies Them to tell the world that They are the Illuminati.

        And you Still don’t see the ‘Relevance’?

        Those Same Illuminati number among their members one Dr FG Lu who made 2 Entire Hospitals of drug pushing Quacks simply Not Exist, At SF City Hall in 2007.

        What follows is a Very Brief and incomplete summary of US Federal Criminal Laws which have been Violated by that New Age, Humanistic, Esalen Illuminati Elitism.

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 13 Sec. 241 Conspiracy Against Rights

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 13 Sec. 242 Deprivation of Rights Under Color Of Law:

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 19 Sec. 371 Conspiracy To Defraud The United States

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 47 Sec. 1031 Major Fraud Against The United States

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 47 Sec. 1035 False Statements

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 63 Sec. 1341 Mail Fraud: Frauds and Swindles

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 63 Sec. 1347 Health Care Frauds

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 63 Sec. 1349 Attempt and Conspiracy

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 95 Sec. 1957 Engaging In Monetary Transactions In Property Derived From Specified Unlawful Activity

        Us Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 96 Sec. 1962 B & C Prohibited Activities, Racketeering

        US Law is Not founded upon ‘Humanistic “Good Without A God” and the Disease State suppositions of an LSD Pusher who toned it down to Hyperventilating while Doodling.

        US Law is founded upon Judeo/Christian precepts, and No One would ever have Been run over by Psychiatry if we’d try remembering that.

        The ‘Illuminati’?

        Perhaps you might refresh yourself on the Already Existing Illegality of the Drugs themselves?

        The ‘Illuminati?

        Who Won’t wear their own ‘Mental Illnesses’ themselves?

        Again: All of it, Already ILLEGAL.

        Esalen melds Eastern Spiritualism with Western Spiritualism.

        That means Hindu and Buddhist beliefs with Judeo and Christian beliefs.

        But they’re “Good Without A God”.

        Mr Gilbert, the California Diversion Programs are the actual imposition of a Hindu type Caste System upon us.

        Psychiatric Patients become Untouchables as Psychiatric/Psychological/Psychotherapeutic ‘Illuminati’ elevate themselves to become Brahmins, completely Above the Law which is Supposed to protect You and everyone Else in America from Forced Psychiatric Treatment to begin with.

        Based on watching The Wizard of Oz, Tootsie, and the Motorcycle Diaries.

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  10. Dear me, what a lot of heated debate over a hippy retreat centre.

    I love hippy retreat centres, they’re generally friendly and welcoming and have nice food and are in the countryside.

    But the main point of these places is that, when the events work, they can give people lots of time, in a well structured way, the time to get to know each other and think things through.

    When events don’t work they can descend into a cat fight (admitedly in a nice rural setting with nice food).

    It looks like this one was succesful, certainly Mr D looks happy, and that’s enough for me.

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    • Mr Hoggett;

      Mr DuBrul is quite welcome to look as happy as he desires, However, when we foolishly allow the State to deprive Anyone of their Real Rights based upon ‘Spiritualism’ and a crooked Drug Deal as an excuse to ignore and run roughshod over the Real Rights owned unalienably by All American Citizens, then “Houston, We Have a Problem’.

      Examine this piece of California State Regulations from its Welfare and Institutions Code:

      Sec 5325:

      “Each person involuntarily detained for evaluation or
      treatment under provisions of this part, and each person admitted as
      a voluntary patient for psychiatric evaluation or treatment to any
      health facility, as defined in Section 1250 of the Health and Safety
      Code, in which psychiatric evaluation or treatment is offered, shall
      have the following rights,

      (2) Modification of normal brain function or normal brain tissue
      in order to control thoughts, feelings, actions, or behavior.

      Huhhhh? What?

      When Brain Function and Brain Tissue are ‘NORMAL’ Where is the ‘Illness’?

      There can be no pathology and the Idiot Legislature which wrote this oxymoron need to be informed in No uncertain Terms that they have exceeded their authority.

      The word “Modify” in this line of Code is a euphemism for the fraudulent, Forced imposition of Brain Damage.

      And they’re codified it as a ‘Right’?

      Remember, This is a State that is currently in Debt for $127.2 Billion Dollars.

      They have No business or Authority to yank ‘Rights’ like this out of their ears and HC Industry campaign contributions. None.

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