Anoiksis is the Dutch association of and for people with a psychotic susceptibility. Anoiksis is Greek and freely translated means “Open Mind.” Our core business is facilitating peer support. The new name project is a specifically Anoiksis project; and many members have been involved and have made contributions. To the old name are attached prejudices, misleading significance and stigma, and they can be thrown overboard by introducing a new name.
Michael van Oostende set up a competition for a new name for schizophrenia in Fall 2010. There were 320 entries to the competition, from all over the Netherlands and even some from abroad. The name we have finally chosen was not one of the entries: Psychosis Susceptibility Syndrome (PSS).
In July 2013 Cambridge University Press published in their journal Psychological Medicine an article written by two Anoiksis patients, Bill George and Aadt Klijn, calling for the adoption of the new name. Four professionals in the mental health field contributed their comments. The collection of all five articles appears in the section of the journal Psychological Medicine entitled “Forum” in the July issue. The reply by George and Klijn to the commentaries was published as a Letter to the Editor in the September issue. This Letter to the Editor is tucked away at the end of the issue and is easy to overlook.
Click here to access the original article as submitted for the July 2013 issue of Psychological Medicine on pages 2015–2016.
Schizophrenia is a loaded term with negative connotations, since it still conveys an image of people with schizophrenia as all being unreliable, dangerous ‘lunatics’. The term consequently lends itself to stigma and self-stigma. Society stamps persons with schizophrenia with a negative hallmark; they take the negative blueprint to themselves and this gives rise to a negative self-image. Not only does the term call up prejudices, it maintains misunderstandings, because schizophrenia for many means split personality and is therefore misleading. A split personality is in fact quite another disorder and has nothing to do with what we call schizophrenia to date.
The above was reason enough for Anoiksis to seek a new official name for what has been called “schizophrenia” until now. The reasoning is as follows:
– Psychosis: because of the unreality of hallucinations and delusions.
– Susceptibility: since patients are not necessarily continually psychotic (but it is latent).
– Syndrome: since this word includes the negative and cognitive symptoms also associated with the disease.
Negative symptoms are, for example, lack of feelings and energy. Cognitive symptoms are, for example, problems with concentration and memory or a reduced capacity for problem-solving. These symptoms hinder daily and social life and are very persistent.
The new name has come about through Anoiksis’ correspondence with the American Psychiatric Association since 2009. Recently the World Health Organisation has been approached with a request to recognise the new name. Currently the name is not recognised either nationally or internationally. Meanwhile Anoiksis members paint open and honest self-portraits and give realistic descriptions of what living with PSS amounts to. The aim is more knowledge and better understanding of ‘formerly schizophrenia’ (now PSS) on the part of the general public.
As Shakespeare wrote, “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” (Romeo and Juliet, 1591/1596). In order to reduce the stigma and self-stigma the name change should be accompanied by adequate information so that knowledge of PSS is based on facts rather than on prejudices about the condition. In Japan that has been provided ever since 1993 and this led to an official name change in 2002. The Japanese Society of Psychiatry and Neurology chose the term integration dysregulation syndrome to replace schizophrenia. Misunderstandings and prejudices tended to disappear and patients could accept the diagnosis more readily. The same happened with people who have Down syndrome. The name change led to the public insight that they are not their “disease”, but people who have a certain condition. Since this awareness by the public, such people are better accepted and have a better life than in the era when they were collectively hospitalised.
The whole question of the schizophrenia diagnosis is being widely debated especially now that DSM-5 has appeared (Lasalvia and Tansella, 2013). Those most affected by a “diagnosis” have long since claimed the right to have a say (George, 2010). Allen Frances, who was chair of the DSM-IV Task Force, has written a rebellious book about the DSM-5; and Jim van Os, Professor of Epidemiological Psychiatry at Maastricht University and member of the former DSM-5 Psychosis Working Group, is in the process of writing a book arguing that “we need a system of personal diagnosis for each individual patient” and that “the broad syndrome within which this personal diagnosis is made is of secondary importance”. There is a fundamental revolution afoot in psychiatry.
A. Frances (2013), Saving Normal: An Insider’s Revolt against Out-of-Control Psychiatric Diagnosis, DSM-5, Big Pharma, and the Medicalization of Ordinary Life, William Morrow, New York.
B. George (2010) What’s in a name? Client participation, diagnosis and the DSM-5. Journal of Mental Health 19(6): 479–82. doi:10.3109/09638237.2010.526157 (Open Access)
B. George and A. Klijn (2013). A modern name for schizophrenia (PSS) would diminish self-stigma. Psychological Medicine 43, 1555–1557. doi:10.1017/S0033291713000895
B. George and A. Klijn (2013). Letter to the Editor: A sweeter smelling rose: A reply to our commentators. Psychological Medicine 43, 2015–2016. doi:10.1017/S0033291713001244
A. Lasalvia and M. Tansella (2013). What is in a name? Renaming schizophrenia as a starting point for moving ahead with its re-conceptualization. Epidemiology and Psychiatric Sciences 22: 285–287. doi:10.1017/S2045796013000498
With acknowledgements to De Kentering.
View the original competition poster here.
Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.
Honestly, I don’t think that this name change will do much to decrease stigma. Being seen as having “propensity to psychosis” will actually make things worse. People will constantly second guess whether any statement or action made by the person who has “propensity to psychosis” will be “psychotic”. So, the best solution is to ban all psychiatric labeling, end of the story.
We have the criminal justice system to deal with those who misbehave, there shouldn’t be a parallel, oppressive system run by psychiatrists to justify they salaries and living.
I don’t understand why the desire to have a name and a syndrome. It’s misleading I think to say that something is a symptom of such a syndrome, as if the named syndrome were a cause. In reality any of the psychiatric diagnoses amounts to giving a name to a (somewhat arbitrary) set of experiences that trouble a person or those around them.
Regarding the “stigma” attached to a label: in my experience the problem was that the label was an excuse to disregard my own self-narrative and to designate psychiatric abuse as a beneficial therapy, thus again denying my self narrative. It is only to the extent I have accepted the abuse as somehow deserved, that I experienced “stigma.”
Also, I am not sure where you get the information on Japan, but colleagues in the user/survivor movement in Japan still report that large numbers of people are incarcerated in psychiatric institutions. See http://www.jngmdp.org/e/.
Thanks for writing here, and I don’t mean to discourage people from whatever they think will make things better. But as someone who was labeled with schizophrenia and wonders what it was really intended to say about me, I don’t agree with the view put forth here that a “psychosis susceptibility syndrome” makes any more sense.
I prefer the term psycho puppets.
Psychosis Susceptibility Syndrome would be a good name for the long term effects of many of the drugs currently used for psychosis.
(I take it you’re not a big fan of conventional psychiatry…)
I read this with interest. I strongly agree that a name change would be beneficial. However, I notice that the suggested new label of PSS makes no mention of the potential for recovery. I know that I am not the only person labelled with schizophrenia to have made a full recovery – most of the others, very sensibly, stay quiet about the fact that they were ever diagnosed. I think it would really help people suffering from mental health problems to know that, whatever label they are given, there is always the potential for a full recovery. Until this fact is acknowledged, these diagnoses will always be damaging to the individual and medications will continue to be overused. I understand that they may be useful for some, in the short term, if they are not forcibly administered, but I think far too many people are left languishing on anti-psychotic medication for life – life that is often severely curtailed as a result of these drugs.
This would be an even more precise (and thus maybe then even more legally justifiable!) way for pharma, doctors, the media, and courts (as well as employers, risk managers/actuaries, and others prone to discriminate) to obscure the KNOWN psychosis risks of psych meds. But we can argue that their “psychosis” is “latent”–whew! Why not just rename schizophrenia as “ticking time bomb,” and bipolar disorders as “time bomb 1/2,” and depression as “time bomb whenever I get the energy” syndromes– especially if the diagnosees are taking or withdrawing from the psychiatric drugs that created/exacerbated them. (But it doesn’t matter to the aforementioned which came first, the psychosis or the drugs, because, well, the nuts wouldn’t be on the drugs if they weren’t nuts to begin with). Wow. Forward march. Let’s think outside the box even more and mandate that the diagnosees wear these labels on t-shirts — as a way to proclaim destigmatization, of course . Seriously, what can I do to help make sure this change doesn’t occur? Is it too late? Suddenly “schizophrenia” doesn’t sound so bad.
Yes..I have long thought T-shirts with labels are the way to go…
Schizophrenia – The real thing (in the Coke script)
Bi-polar – I’m lov’in it (In a two humped golden arch)
I want a “I’m not bipolar, I’m bi-winning” T-shirt.
I am a member of Michael van Oostende’s forum. There are many patients who think the name change will help them, but typically there are also many patients who are “in cahoots” with psychiatry and do not really question its helpfulness. Personally, I doubt the change will have any effect, and although some forum members have started using PSS, it confuses me every time and I don’t think many people will [i]naturally[/i] migrate to the new name. I personally do not care much, and so I just use what I see fit – which is the old name. Only people who [i]care[/i] use the new name. I think this proves that there is not really a demand for it. People would flock to the new name if it was really an improvement. Such an improvement would be innately recognized. Currently I feel it is just a lot of effort over nothing. All of the stigma will trail the new name like a plague. It is not realistic to think that suddenly we will be able to launch an educational publicity effort that will abolish the negative connotations, since negative messages [b]will[/b] keep appearing in the media, relating this disease to all kinds of horror and violence. The media like death. You will never see a positive drug story either.
I have mixed emotions about this.
On the one hand, I think it’s time to abolish the term “schizophrenia” – as in, get rid of it in its entirety, toss it off the planet.
On the other hand, I’m not sure any person is “susceptible” to a relapse of psychosis, simply because they’ve undergone such an episode.
In short, IMO, the *root causes* are what need to be adressed. As I’ve written many times on this site, I think those root causes can be unique for each individual.
“Psychosis” is an event, not a person.
And a person can overcome a psychotic event, and go on to live a full and meaningful life. In some cases, a person can overcome several such events. But there appears to be no indication that someone would remain “susceptible” to such events, once the root cause or causes have been addressed.
To clarify, I’m not saying someone should ever be told to “get over” a psychosis, but rather, encouraged to “overcome” such an epsisode, and begin to see it as something that happened in their life – with a clear distiction between something that took place and who they are as a person.
The *person* is who needs to be seen as valuable. And, in the spiritual sense, *holy* in spite of whatever events have taken place in their lives, however traumatic. We must, as a people begin to see the *value* that comes in all of this – for the person who undergoes such episode(s), as an opportunity for growth and renewal – an awakening, strengthening, enduring event. The human soul has the ability to constantly grow, becoming stronger each day; better than before.
to clarify – last paragraph, the event is not “enduring” – the *person* has the ability to endure.
What we need instead is not simply a different label but entirely different ways of thinking about those psychological experiences and behaviours that have historically been mislabelled and misunderstood.
Intergation disorder has changed nothing in Japan btw. One might as well go with dopamine disregulation disorder as suggested by Proff Colin Murray at the Institute of Psychiatry in the UK for all the good a name change would do.
The name for manic depressive disorder was changed to bipolar. The name for split personality disorder was changed to dissociative identity disorder. Did any of these make a difference? No. The public still would rather scoff at people than try to under stand, and psychiatrists simply transferred there existing stigmas to the new label.
As long as schizophrenia and PSS are equated, the stigma will not change. Why not try something truly radical like defining PSS to be something different than schizophrenia? Or perhaps by making PSS a label that is self-adopted, rather than assigned by psychiatry?
The people who know what schizophrenia means – such as my home doctor – already are prone to interpret normal behaviour or opinions as symptoms of this disease. When I make statements that my home doctor does not believe can be true, she interprets them as delusions. When I describe feelings my home doctor does not believe can exist, she interprets them as hallucinations. Purely because she knows my label. You are not taken seriously. You are not respected in your thoughts. It would be horrible if the masses started doing this as well. It is better for regular folk to not know my diagnosis. It is better for people to treat me as a regular person.
I don’t think this is an “answer” but I do think it’s a small step in a better direction. I believe people have the right to call themselves whatever they like so if some stick to older labels good for them, if others prefer a new one, go for it, if others reject them all, good on them.
I like the “syndrome” part quite a lot, I also like the “susceptibility” part somewhat – me I believe all 7billion humans are variously susceptible so we all have PSS – I’m not sure about the “psychosis ” part mostly because we don’t know what psychosis is – or at we least can’t agree yet..your psychosis is my dream [I’m serious] …
…but I do like “PSS” a lot more than “shitzophrenia”, partly because it necessitates a “I have…” or ” I live with…” use of language rather than “I am a …”
Sometimes, to make a big change we must start by simply moving- take a step, any step, somewhere, any direction, even in a non-optimal direction, just to get moving – so we can get used to the idea that we can move. Once we’re moving, changing direction a little at a time is easier than starting from stuck-still. A sailing vessel likely has to tack with and against the wind to get across the ocean.
In the end a diagnosis simply indicates what treatment might be useful- that’s all it is.
I believe that if a person wants to use it as an identity then it’s their choice, no one else’s.
but what we call others -and populations of others- is something that is worth paying attention to and worth thinking about carefully.
I agree that schizophrenia is a fraught, loaded term but I don’t think that PSS will fare any better if it becomes commonplace. As a poster alluded to above, having my manic depression relabelled as bipolar disorder hasn’t improved my life any.
“Susceptibility” is a rubbery concept and with PSS it’ll be assumed to be a biological or genetic susceptibility being referred to. I think we should get rid of these labels altogether and stop teaching people that they’re fundamentally different.
I’ve been corrected after using the term “wacko” or something similar, to which I respond “How about you let someone who has a mental illness decide how to refer to it?” I’m generally opposed to political correctness anyway.
Rarely does a change in terminology foster systemic change or lessen stigma.
I was a patient then a recipient then a client then a consumer putatively then a person in recovery. I lived through the eras of psychosocial rehabilitation, evidence based practices, best practices, recovery and now Wellness & Recovery. The only thing that changed was my medication which was always “safer and more effective.”
Diagnosing needs to be done away with – period. Open Dialogue has by far the world’s best outcomes for “first episode psychosis,” and they do not diagnose. They just interact with “patients” and their social networks – over many years, if that’s what it takes.
As long as we even use the term “diagnosis,” we are playing on psychiatry’s medical model home turf – the finding of “illness” within the “patient,” and, overwhelmingly, the use of “medications” (which should just be called “drugs”).
If we have to even indirectly refer to “diagnosis,” it should be called what it is – LABELING. That makes clear what’s really going on with “diagnosis” – nothing scientific, nothing accurate about the person, and it’s being imposed on the person by an outsider for the outsider’s own purposes.
If you need to describe the person, do so in matter of fact, common language: if he is “depressed,” say what’s really going on. For example: “Mr. Smith says he feels very sad most of the time,” or “He says he’s lost interest in things he usually enjoys.” This doesn’t imply a “disease,” or that he’s fundamentally different from the rest of humanity; it simply says why Mr. Smith is seeking some help (if he is seeking help).
Instead of mucking about with scientific sounding terms like “schizophrenia” or “psychosis” that are not connected to reality except by the value judgments of others, why not say, “Ms. Jones says she hears voices that others don’t hear, and that scare her;” or, “She says she receives disturbing secret messages from the TV programs she watches.”
This is better than “diagnosis,” but the truth is, people should not be summed up in labels or brief statements. Humans are the most complex entities in the known universe. Each of us is unique in all the universe, and we interact with thousands of other equally unique/complex humans, who are in turn influenced by cultures made up of millions or billions of humans. Why would a single word, phrase or paragraph be useful in saying anything meaningful about any one of us.
My significant other recently attended a lecture by a Johns Hopkins associate professor of psychiatry. He said he was taught in psychiatric residency that you can’t “diagnose” someone until you have known them for a year. The lecturer was pleased to say, “We have come a long way since then. Now we can do it in 2 hours.” (Actually, make that 15 to 60 minutes for most psychiatrists).
We don’t need to “diagnose” or label people. We need to GET TO KNOW THEM. And too bad if that makes billing more complicated.
The majority of the commentators above have their reservations about Psychosis Susceptibility Syndrome (PSS) as a more modern name for schizophrenia. On the other hand when I started reading this there were 64 Likes and 24 Tweets (not necessarily favorable Tweets).
I agree that the condition is complex and that individual people are complex. There is no one cause of PSS and no one defining symptom. There is a cluster of symptoms, a different cluster for each person.
There is something to be said for abandoning diagnoses altogether. But as the last post hinted, abandoning diagnoses might have unintended practical consequences.
The important thing is not the change in the name, but to take the opportunity to educate the public as to what we experts by experience actually experience; and to get rid of the myths!! Bill George, Anoiksis.
I do agree that recovery is often a matter of discovery. B.G.
The above was reason enough for Anoiksis to seek a new official name for what has been called “schizophrenia” until now. The reasoning is as follows:
– Psychosis: because of the unreality of hallucinations and delusions.
– Susceptibility: since patients are not necessarily continually psychotic (but it is latent).
– Syndrome: since this word includes the negative and cognitive symptoms also associated with the disease.
Negative symptoms are, for example, lack of feelings and energy. Cognitive symptoms are, for example, problems with concentration and memory or a reduced capacity for problem-solving. These symptoms hinder daily and social life and are very persistent.”
That description doesn’t show much understanding of Schizophrenia, It just does the same as the flat-lined psychiatrists – it describes symptoms without understanding the emotional functioning or the basic emotional dysfunction which drives the symptoms.
Psychiatrists will just regard this name change idea as patient’s refusal to accept they are ill. Psychiatry has the control of the name – psychiatrists would have to be the ones to want name change.
People don’t like the name because they have been told schizophrenia is incurable by psychiatry and they tend to believe it as very few people know it is curable.
Recovery is an inappropriate word to use. Schizophrenia is resolvable by personalty re-integration , a person does not go back to anything he was before as the word “recovery” suggests. Psychiatry has lots of “recovered” schizophrenics – they have most of their symptoms suppressed due to drug lobotomization. To a psychiatrist “recovery” is nothing – it means that they own you – if anyone is genuinely cured or transformed or re-integrated as a person I recommend not to use this word.
Upon further inspection I suspect this Anoiksis Society is either funded or co-opted to a large degree by the Bio-Med Industry in spite of the front page statement of being “completely run” by “consumers”.
The Schizophrenic Society of Canada is also “completely run by consumers” , however (I infiltrated it and studied it) it was created and is backed by hidden bosses in the Government in complete collusion with the Bio-Med Industry. The administration are basically straw dogs for the real owners.
I’m seeing a great deal of the same structure in the Dutch organization.
This accounts for why the description for the new name of Schizophrenia is taken completely from the DSM or from Psychiatria – just reworded here and there.
I browsed the Dutch Website with a translator.
Here are some things to note:
In the name itself the membership of Anoiksis schizophrenia is equated with chronic psychosis. This is a view of SZ as an incurable disease, there is no understanding that SZ as a condition can be cured. So only those still suffering from SZ can be members? Apparently the paradigm of cure doesn’t exist there.
* They have “recovery” and “recovery stories” )Bio-med terminology) and as usual no on is cured. The definition of recovery is exactly like the Bio-med description.
There is no mention of drugs anywhere on the site but plenty of mention of treatment. Everyone must be getting them but shhh don’t talk about it?
There is no accounting for ownership or executive structure, no one responsible – no accounting for the power structure.
They claim to be both Positive/Negative towards psychiatry.
All there associations are with Bio-med organizations. – question is who is in charge and whom is using whom. Psychiatry, the institution adn ideology, is fascist pure and sweet, if any power is given to them they will oppress.
National Mental Health Platform, the Rehabilitation Centre Knowledge, various government institutions and other patient associations,
Supposedly a “friendly tame psychiatrist ” is on the ruling committee – but the question is who’s dog is who’s. I have already seen how this works in Canada.
Then as I browse the various pages I find things like a video in Dutch “A new paradigm: life with a living loss”. which means something like “how to live permanently with (incurable) Schizophrenia.
The only way I could see such a society being successfully run is under ether those who have been completely cured of Schizophrenia or those who have facilitated cures. But in fact cure or even an understanding of Schizophrenia as a emotional dysfunction is not on the site.
If someone could prove to me this organization is not co-opted or running under the ideology of Bio-med Psychiatry, I lay down the challenge.
Among members of Anoiksis’ forum, even those who are not affiliated with Anoiksis, the biomed model goes largely unchallenged. The general consensus is that there is no alternative for medicines. Alternatives such as Open Dialogue are being discredited before even having been considered. Then they conclude “unfortunately there are in all likelihood no real alternatives.” Most patients accept that they need the drugs and those that do not face a lack of alternatives and often have to resort back to drugs when their symptoms worsen. Because of experiences like this, it seems that there really is no escape for most people.
It is not easy to get away from these drugs when every person in psychiatry is initially treated with them. As you know, long term outcomes worsen drastically when drugs are given in the beginning. It is a *very* common experience that people try to get off them but after 6-12 months they are forced by bad outcomes to get back on. The Dutch GGZ (mental health care) is totally not equipped to deal with the real issues underlying SZ. It does not know how to give therapy or what the possible benefits of a different approach might be. As a result, the experience of patients gets determined right from the start by the pharmaceutical treatment approach, and there is virtually no escape once this alley has been entered. People would be better off – have better alternatives and better predictions – if they would not have been primed on these meds in the first place. It’s like a wasp caught in a wasp trap. It cannot find the exit.
Congratulations Xen! There is a Dutch saying which runs something like this: “Een vleugje stroop doet meer dan een fles azijn.” Roughly translated this means: “A dash of syrup will achieve more than a bottle of vinegar.” *You* and Jacqui Dillon may be able to show the fly the way out of the flybottle (Ludwig Wittgenstein). Bill
Thank you Bill. Unfortunately I’m not a sufferer of schizophrenia and I won’t be able to help people navigate their madness. Jacqui Dillon will have to do it by herself, but I am certain she won’t stand alone.
I don’t quite know quite what you are on about, Eddie7, but garbage is garbage and if this organization is a front for the Bio-Med Industry of Death then people should know about it.
A bottle of vinegar just may make a good pesticide.
Syrup is sticky stuff which bogs you down in the well of neurosis – getting out means getting tough.
I was cured of schizophrenia over 35 years ago. Since then I have had two high pressure and existing careers.
If anyone wants to learn to conquer schizophrenia they need to learn from or study the survivors who have fully been on both sides of it.
“The Dutch GGZ (mental health care) is totally not equipped to deal with the real issues underlying SZ. It does not know how to give therapy or what the possible benefits of a different approach might be.”
Describes the entire Western world “unhealth care”
You described it all well. But they all forgot there is an exit,they are not even looking for it.
Those health officials won’t like the answers either, for the way to health is through a completely opposite ideology from which they and most of society is indoctrinated in.
Concurrent with Bio-med psychiatry is an ideology of health which is anathema to personal growth. This ideology has now been widely indoctrinated in the population.
This one sounds interesting and fairly well balanced. Thank you Sky Blue Sight! It is better to talk of flybottles than wasp traps. Bill George
What are you on about Bill. Fly bottles and wasp traps are the exact same thing..
@Xen I don’t know what eddie7 is on about. It sounds as if he is snipping at or about something but it is not clear. Perhaps I’m not in with the in crowd or perhaps he is deliberately vague.
Very insightful social analysis you have written.
Ha Ha yes the neutrality of the press is the best way they maintain bias. They are indeed as Orwell said “a mass lying machine”.
I know about the uniformed. I visit a Government Mental Health center with drop in recreational community services. Every single worker there of every rank and function knows nothing else except the Bio-Med Ideology. All those poor people , “consumers” – they are murdering, that could become full human beings and are policed so that it can never happen – they think they are “helping” them.
But these are the sockpuppets were were indoctrinated never to challenge the system and it’s many illusions. At the top where all the direction comes from are fully aware ruthless selfish and greedy people – in the government, in the elite , in business and the media. They know fully what they are doing. they lie sincerely without guilt or conscience, the lust for power makes them psychopaths.
I have reached much of the same conclusions as you. But it’s hard to see through them, because the illusions are so pervasive. And it’s not ill intent for most people. I gave my care worker and psychiatrist a print copy of an article by Whitaker, and lent them a DVD of Daniel Mackler. They were very interested. The Anoiksis site lists a translation of a Washington Post article about a psychiatrist who has read one of Whitaker’s books, and was turned around. People are really interested. It’s not really their fault. Everyone tries their best.
I have determined that the site is totally co-opted by Bio-Med Psychiatry. I have since seen pages there that refer to Schizophrenia as a “disease” and “research needs to be done about Psychotherapy as there are uncertain results ” etc etc.
They are playing some kind of funny game pretending to pander to the alternative community but actually the idea is to pervert those ideas and bring the “rebellious ” into the clutches of Bio-Med Ideology and consumerism.
“Gee, Folks – no choice – take your meds”
It should be obvious that people under affliction cannot take the responsibility of leadership in such an organization, although ex-Schizophrenics – survivors and the cured could certainly take leadership So that org has only those being “guided” (actually controlled) by psychiatry. And if those “guided people are using psychotropics then control over them is a slam dunk. I have seen exactly how this works in the Schizophrenic Society of Canada – there is only the pretence of the afflicted running it, they are actually extensions of the puppeteers..
And if they call the members “consumers” instead of patients or something liek that then they are all the puppy-dogs of psychiatry.
So of course the organization is a front for Bio-Med Psychiatry.The only way it could not be is if Survivors who are no longer on meds or who have never been on meds would be in charge of the organization.
The organization ison my garbage listd
You may be right about all of this. Realize though that this is primarily a condition of being extremely uninformed. The same is true of most organisations that operate under the banner of public service. For instance, the Cancer Fund will state that “eating red meat poses a risk for developing cancer” but what they don’t tell you is that a completely vegetarian diet reduces the risk of many forms of cancer by about 50% compared to a regular meat diet. The national Food and Diet Centre may state that a vegetarian diet may have important health benefits but these are never quantified and the organisation does not take a stance. Instead they keep presenting the idea that “dairy, meat and fish contain much proteins and other important nutrients.” In this way the public is kept ignorant of the real data.
And it is not even ill will. The people who write these things are uninformed themselves. Or maybe they are not allowed to take a stance because they are supposed to be ‘neutral’ and neutral means to keep representing the status quo.
These organisations would never be allowed to present data that flies in the face of vested economic interests. If they did, the industry would protest it to be ‘biased’ and demand that it ‘represent the different opinions of experts in the field’ which means that scientific truth is ‘balanced’ according to what various people believe such that science becomes a matter of majority vote.
The same is true of journalism: journalists are supposed to be ‘neutral’ and present both sides of the argument in equal measure, even though 95% of the scientific community might be in favour of the one, and only 5% might be in favour of the other. But because there are always economic interests, it is demanded that all voices are heard equally. In this way, people are kept in doubt and uncertainty.
Every public service organisation in the Netherlands operates in this way. There is a kind of hypnotic spell that keeps people entranced in falsehoods and lies.
New data only very slowly trickles through into the minds of the people. There are forces at work that keep it from doing so.
I don’t know whether I, for one, am right about all this. You, Xen, are blessed with a very high IQ. It will take me some time and study to understand all your analogies. But we will get there! B.G.
I guess you two have a history. Sounds interesting.
Thank you Xen. Jacqui Dillon is also not a sufferer from Schizophrenia and she is also not mad. But she has considerable insight. She is one of the sanest people I know of. Bill
Xen. It was originally Wittgenstein that said it was like trying to get a fly out of the fly bottle. You say fly bottles and wasp traps are the same thing. You might as well say syrup and vinegar are the same thing. Bill George
Of course! You might just as well say that “I like what I get” is the same thing as “I get what I like”! or even you might just as well say, that “I breathe when I sleep” is the same thing as “I sleep when I breathe”!
Einstein once said “Please pass the syrup” and someone gave him the vinegar. So sometimes, they can be the same thing.
I suppose you might say philosophers let the flies out, psychologists study the effects of flies on philosophers, scientists just kill the damn things and psychiatrists medicate the flies to an eighty percent recovery rate.
happy new year
Happy new year, Sky and Bill George. I fill my fly bottles with syrup and they attract wasps. I didn’t know you could fill them with vinegar as well :p. Either case, it’s hard to escape for any flying creature. Perhaps the problem is, that we have wings. 😉
And of course the “you might as well say” routine is from Alice in Wonderland.
“Everyone tries their best.”
No they don’t. They deliberately blind themselves.
No Xen I don’t have a permissive attitude. “I was only following orders” was not an acceptable defense at Nuremberg. The line between life and death, between lobotomy and actualization is very thin – there is no room for compromise, permissiveness or ignorance.
The wages of Bio-Meds are death.
Living death,real death, poverty death – it is all murder.
Xin Nian Kuai Le
I like your attitude, but something in me has to die – some kind of tolerance – for me to think that way.
There is a page in the book “Conversations with God” dedicated to this topic. It relates how all organisations have as their primary function survival. That is their prime operative. An organisation wants to continue existing. The issue is that real healthcare would be anathema to the current structure of western medicine. Introducing real healthcare would disrupt and deconstruct the current system. So the system defends and fights off this threat.
Any psychiatrist or care worker operating within this system will act to protect this system. Their job description, as it were, requires them to do so. There is no escape from this, except when employees act on their own terms, outside of their functional requirements – thereby initiating a personal relationship with the client. As part of their job they will never betray the system for which they work.
Now, take this care worker out of this system and instantly that person will transform into someone who no longer acts to defend the system. That’s why I always say that I have a problem with the role of the psychiatrist, not with the guy himself. I actually like the guy. And I like my psychiatric nurse. But I cannot fight their role within the system. I can only hope to inspire them personally. To inspire the human behind or beneath the role.
Conversations with God says, and I quote: This is not malevolent, yet it is insidious. The profession doesn’t do this because it is evil. It does it because it is scared. All attack is a call for help.
I believe the only way to remedy this is to create an alternative to which care workers can flock. They must be able to leave their positions. On the other hand, perhaps it is possible – and required in any case – to transform the people first through education. But, I very much doubt that the organisation itself can be transformed, unless it is redesigned from the ground up.
Seek out this song on YouTube: Thirteen Senses – After the Retreat (Acoustic Version)
“Conversations with God says, and I quote: This is not malevolent, yet it is insidious. The profession doesn’t do this because it is evil. It does it because it is scared. All attack is a call for help.”
Thank you for mentioning Conversations with God.
Here is the most recent message from Neale Donald Walsch (posted today)
“I like your attitude, but something in me has to die – some kind of tolerance – for me to think that way. – Xen”
Sorry Xen, I think the idea of an anthropomorphic God is a fantasy. I do respect spirituality though but not calls to “authority” or any such beliefs.
Yes, you are right some part of you has to die but it is not “tolerance” – it is the protective bandage you have when you have to face reality. Toleration of fascism is not tolerance , it is retreat from self-defense and confrontation. This is probably part of the mass indoctrination which the rulers teach the masses to be complaint and submissive to the system of fascism Tolerance to fascism is not the moral high ground but is submission and inculcates a lack of courage in individuals to resist fascism in all forms. This kind of indoctrination is much assisted by having a population that are somewhat affluent and are slaves to indulgence.
Perhaps you should experience some kind of death, that would teach you what the stakes are – what is the difference between success and failure.
I knwo all the situations, it doesn’t matter what the excuses are – everyone has a choice – no matter how painful it is they have a choice. And contrary to what you suggest ,most of them choose not to know the truth because it simply is not convenient.
In other words their ignorance is based on selfishness and self-aggrandizement.
The people you feel sorry for and think are like yourself are in fact not like yourself. They will kill you over and over again they will lobotomize you, they will not cry about you and they will not remember your dust.
I do not care “why”. It doesn’t matter to me, if a person is malevolent or ignorant. Death is death and you must fight against them for survival as ruthlessly as they oppress you.
I am not after punishment or revenge I simply don’t care about them. Garbage is garbage – what is outside my sphere of ability I don’t care about and I don’t allow myslef to be pulled in to. I cut off my emotional involvement with all those who are in dysfunctional process either personally or socially.
Do what you want – go ahead and weep for them love bomb them if you feel like it but you are not likely to succeed since you don’t know who you are dealing with, They are not innocently ignorant, they are willfully ignorant. Neither the devil nor the system made them do it, they chose it no matter what – they always had a choice,
And the last thing is that once they have made this choice – they have changed – you are now dealing with the hardened oppressor.
A parallel is like dealing with the afflicted – sympathy and support does not help them, A psychotherapist has to ruthlessly murder the old egos of his patients in interventionist confrontational style. They must be the “Assassins of love.”
The system dogs are your enemy , keep your bowels open and your power dry and remain vigilant – don’t let them kill you while you are feeling sorry for them – don’t stay your words , don’t hesitate to find their emotional weak spots and strike down their arrogant egos when you can. Give no quarter to their propaganda defense.
Don’t be tame and tamed. Act respectful, but don’t respect them. Be the best you can be. 😉
” This is not malevolent, yet it is insidious. The profession doesn’t do this because it is evil. It does it because it is scared. All attack is a call for help.”
That’s beyond ludicrous. The human lust for power and control has been shown in everyone form Attila to Stalin to modern psychiatrists.
History did not die, the nature of humanity has not changed, nor has the strategisms changed – only the weapons have changed. Being a volunteer for the ovens – that’s pathetic – you will win the Darwin Award and will make sure your line is genetically extinct.
I hope you will find a way to live in peace with the inner agent that may have made the same choices as they have, or continues to make them. Choices are made out of awareness, and they lack it. Even I lack it. I can only say that I try to grow my awareness. That’s all that separates “me” from “them” (as if there is a them). I chose to not equate the system-role with the person participating in that system. The system was created by people, yes. The system is supported by people, yes. People who are in whole or in part ignorant of the nature of the system.
I will fight their ideas, and I will fight their actions. But they are the people who need to change. It is something they must find out for themselves… a light has to turn on in their minds.
Two days ago a “chief personnel officer” of an Amsterdam mental health care institution was murdered in the street. I would suspect an ex-client to do something like that. If the people in the system are our enemy, why not kill them? Let’s go and kill the CEOs of all the multinationals, that will teach them.
As much as it would please me to read “Walmart CEO fears for his life after threats” I rather doubt enmity and hostility to the people involved is going to help us at all in this cause. Much more would be gained if such a CEO would wake up and realize “WTF have I been doing?”
Now Jimi Hendrix cured himself of introjection by going “Freak”:
Listen to his song:
If six was nine, he don’t care. He really don’t.
If the sun refused to shine,
I don’t mind, I don’t mind.
If the mountains fell in the sea,
Let it be, it ain’t me.
Got my own world to live through
And I ain’t gonna copy you.
Now, if 6 was 9,
I don’t mind, I don’t mind.
If all the hippies cut off their hair,
I don’t care, I don’t care.
Did, ‘cos I got my own world to live through
And I ain’t gonna copy you.
White-collar conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me.
They’re hoping soon my kind will drop and die,
But I’m gonna wave my freak flag high . . . HIGH!
Falling mountains just don’t fall on me
Point on mister Businessman,
You can’t dress like me.
Nobody know what I’m talking about
I’ve got my own life to live
I’m the one that’s gonna have to die
when it’s time for me to die
So let me live my life the way I want to.
“Now Jimi Hendrix cured himself of introjection by going “Freak””
Music, the great contribution to the world!
Remember the 80’s in America? We lived in a sea of Madonna’s.
EVERYBODY was Madonna! Madonna and Michael Jackson.
Maybe introjection is just another word for conformity.
Here’s a great line from L7
“wake up and smell the coffee, or just say no to individuality”
Pretend We’re Dead
Distinguished people stick out like a sore thumb. Some people become celebrities. Others become curiosities and oddities. Those who blend, some of them, do so to remain safe.
In all pursuits is Know Thyself (which is not ego, but id). Id means Identity.
The world is a masquerade party. Some people have their masks ripped off while others have a mask welded on them. Some are just plain defaced. There are demons whose faces are entire black, with no discernible eyes or nose or mouth. Divinity’s face is made entirely of light.
Know Thyself (know who you truly are, your True Self).
The movie NeverEnding Story shows how some people cannot face themselves in the mirror (they die at what they see). The movie’s main character, Atreyu, faces himself and finds that he sees Bastian (and he is allowed to pass through and continue on).
Everybody has a True Self (id, identity). Unless there are those who don’t have an identity.
“I hope you will find a way to live in peace with the inner agent that may have made the same choices as they have, Xen”
So,I think that is why you identify with them. You make the same choices they do.
I don’t – I can say with absolute certainty, so I already live in peace and nothing disturbs it.
” Two days ago a “chief personnel officer” of an Amsterdam mental health care institution was murdered in the street. I would suspect an ex-client to do something like that. If the people in the system are our enemy, why not kill them? Let’s go and kill the CEOs of all the multinationals, that will teach them..”
Big deal, the guy got his Karma, no sympathy. But unfortunately individual acts like that will just make those institutions more repressive as they institute more security.
Not teach them, eliminate them. This is the whole story of human history of which you seem to be unaware- the struggle of democracy versus despots . That is the only choice with despots and tyrants – eliminate them and replace them with democracy.
But in order to prevent new despots from taking over it needs to be done with civilized law, group democratic agreement to dis-empower them, arrest them, them legally put the on trial and totally replace the old ruling class.
But that is not going to happen as they engineer consent by having control of the propaganda system and social engineering.
You are a prime example of this – you have been inculcated with attitudes to make you compliant, submissive and non-rebellious, you have all the good qualifications of a socially and genetically engineered slave and servant to the system. And you are not aware of how it works – that’s the genius of the propaganda system which is done through the schools, your parents. your peers and the mass media – all extensions of power from the ruling class.
Incidentally, one of the benefits of passing through madness is to be deprogrammed from all of that. eg The adolescent goes mad but is also furious with their parents and society – this creates a huge conflict. The adolescent through madness is deprogrammed from all of the inducted illusions of the society around them – so they express madness within a mad system.
Quite to be expected.
“Much more would be gained if such a CEO would wake up and realize “WTF have I been doing?”
Right? – Xen”
No, that would be the same thing – if they did that they would immediately disband their power base and kill themselves in their agony of conscience. But all the Hitlers, Maos Stalins and CEO’s and Bio-Med psychiatrists have yet to do this service to humanity. 😉
You don’t know the outside world, you live in a world of your inner struggle and identity confusion. Just vomit out all that stuff and maybe you can think more clearly. Maybe the solution is to learn hate and anger rather than resist it.Then you can become neutral.
It’s impersonal to me dealing with oppressors I neither hate them nor bleed for them.
There is no “we”, the masses have no mind of their own, not yet any so until they do exclude me out of your “we”.
Actually my own madness revolved around letting go of rationality altogether. To envision any kind of act and consider whether I shouldn’t let go of any kind of morality. I want to live a life that’s based on functional outcomes, not predefined morals. I am aware that I’m indoctrinated, but the Dutch culture is *very* strong in that. I feel drugged. Submission is communicated on so many levels. In this country the basic premise is “trust the government, it takes good care of you.” I think people know me as the guy who has a big mouth – who criticizes everything – without knowing how to escape. At least in the USA, it is clear that the government does NOT take good care of you. But in Holland it is all-pervasive.. It is the reason why there are no good Dutch books on anything. If I want to read about food, I will read an American. If I want to read about economics, I will read an American. And same for psychiatry – I would read Whitaker. You have no idea how repressive this country is, and neither do the people who live here.
What can I do?
“Two days ago a “chief personnel officer” of an Amsterdam mental health care institution was murdered in the street. … ”
“Big deal, the guy got his Karma, no sympathy.”
That looks like hatred to me. Hatred, brought to the surface.
A lot of people have deep, thick, black coal hatred in them. It is a serious problem. Hatred is the road to death. Anagram of hated = death.
Karma isn’t a murderer.
Karma brings Blessings. It is HUMANS who distort Karma and make it seem like Karma is a weapon.
There was a tip jar on the counter of the neighborhood coffee house. It had a label on it that said, Tips are Good Karma.
Then some demonic hellion STOLE that tip jar (what, trying to teach people a lesson?!).
That thief twisted and perverted Karma.
I went for nearly a full year with no income in 2010. One day, so desperate, I decided to take what change I had and buy a scratch ticket. I had 90 cents and needed only a dime.
On my way into the store, I asked a woman who sat in her car, pulled along side the building, if she could give me a dime. She did not hesitate and joyfully gave me a dime.
I went into the store and bought a $1 scratch ticket. It paid me $40.00
I went outside and handed that woman a dollar. I paid her back TEN TIMES what she gave me. She resisted but I had to insist! I said it’s Karma! Please, take the dollar! I told her what that dime was about and how it helped me. She accepted the dollar.
PLEASE don’t use Karma as a weapon.
Karma is NOT a “bitch”. That is human HATRED and human VIOLENCE talking.
Actually you can’t appropriate karma in any way, neither good nor bad. But I get what you’re saying, many people believe they are the agents of karma when they are taking revenge on something or someone. Karma does not need human help.
“Actually you can’t appropriate karma in any way, neither good nor bad.”
Spiritual Laws CAN be Understood for what they are.
Consider levitation: The Law that allows for levitation is NOT the breaking of the Law of Gravity. It is the utilization of the Law that allows levitation.
Karma is NOT a murderer or punisher. Karma brings BLESSINGS. Karma does not take life or cause death.
The Law of Forgiveness has no distortion, but Karma does.
Humans wield Karma in the negative. They use it like a curse. That is human error.
I’ve always understood karma as the law that states that whatever experience you bring to another, you will one day experience yourself.
I think there’s no room for judging things as either negative or positive in that. Things are what they are. We decide what they mean.
In this instance, we are talking about the murder of a man where that murder has been deemed “Karma”.
Karma is not a murderer or punisher.
Karma is not how or why that man was murdered.
“You have no idea how repressive this country is, and neither do the people who live here.
What can I do? – Xen”
I lived in Communist China for 12 years, I have studied repression up front. Now I can understand repressive forces much more clearly in the West.
OK, Since you asked:
According to Gestalt Therapy practice and theory you are suffering from introspection – force fed concepts without being able to digest them. The cure is to vomit them out and re-digest what is palatable on your own time. Pity, I guess you did not have a madness successful enough.
Well if you don’t want to go mad again, I would suggest to learn to say no, start off with small things. The test of freedom is if you can say “no”.
When the light turns green don’t walk across immediately, hang back and let everyone else start – let the others get killed by the speeding cars first , then cross.
literally and figuratively.
use cash! 😉
Practice contrarianism, even be like the Sioux “contrary” – literally walk backwards.
Develop Oppositional Defiant Disorder but don’t get medicated.
Maybe throw some spectacular hissy fits in some non-threatening situations , let yourself go, vomit it it all out – then observe…
Don’t worry , you can’t win. Once you accept that you can enjoy the fight.
Giving up wanting, do without what you don’t need whatever or whoever it is, you only need yourself.
Intelligence and insight has little to do with escaping indoctrination – it is simply luck of circumstance that wakes some people up – create the circumstance.
You can go live in another country for a few years and stay away from the expatriate community. Then you can see your own culture in a new more universal light.
If you can’t do that find a way to do a walkabout or a vision quest in your own country or do meditation for the purpose of transcending yourself.
You see, that’s just a start from a few minutes thinking, just think some more, –
You can put your elbow to your ear if you want.
You can do it if you really want , then you can make the world a better place for you, for me, and the whole human race.
“You are suffering from introspection”
“you are suffering from introjection”
There are 3 main dysfunctions as outlined by Gestalt Theorists .
If I can remember it is projection , introjection and ….
(whoops! I will have to refresh my memory…)
Ah, OK here we go – I remember 3 but that is my memory from my ghost personality when I was Schizophrenic I tired to read ‘that’ book.- couldn’t concentrate but I did understand some concepts for later use – didn’t save me form psychosis but it was helpful after.
Again – Here we go:
“Introjection, Projection, Confluence and Retroflection.”
Very good explanation here.
Happy and Productive New Year everybody, with or without wings, with or without PSS. Bill George
I am aware that I’m indoctrinated, but the Dutch culture is *very* strong in that. I feel drugged. Submission is communicated on so many levels. In this country the basic premise is “trust the government, it takes good care of you.” I think people know me as the guy who has a big mouth – who criticizes everything – without knowing how to escape.
You have no idea how repressive this country is, and neither do the people who live here.
What can I do?
I forgot to mention this one thing. If you complain abut the social system and say you don’t know how to solve it, it means your identity has been compromised, you have been co-opted in some way to protect the very system that oppresses you. Your aggression has been cut off at the knees.
Also let us compare the statements you make above with all of the sympathetic and wimpy statements you make about your oppressors. It doesn’t compute.
You see, if people can see, understand the social problems they have, that is 90 percent , the solutions are obvious. If people saw the truth there would be a revolution in one hour and in one day all the regimes would fall.
But they don’t. Submission and compliance is indoctrinated in the masses. You want to change a part but cannot touch the root and burn down the tree.
Learn to fight – put a little hate in your heart. it couldn’t hurt.
“It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”
-Robert F Kennedy
Ah, RFK, A former leader of the America Power Elite a servant of economic fascists that achieved power through a sham electoral process in which the only parties represented are the parties of the rich.
That RFK. – the one who took Marlyn Monroe to bed as a perk of his office.
So when will the walls of oppression and resistance of American totalitarianism come sweeping down?
Heh, since I am striking out against injustice that means I am establishing a tiny ripple of hope that will eventually bring down the great wall of totalitarianism in the current form of accelerating economic fascism that RFK helped to establish.
I’m so cool – thank you RFK.