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42 COMMENTS

  1. (i) A written prescription for less than a 10 day supply of a benzodiazepine or a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic shall not be refilled.

    Oh great big fat hassle !

    “Consent to urine drug screening at the initiation of the informed consent process and at least two times each year thereafter”

    Drug testing and like a DEA agent in the doctors office with me, no thanks. I lived the benzo nightmare and part of that nightmare is fascist BS and more of it won’t help.

    I am not supporting this so called “Benzodiazepine Awareness Day” you people want more drug testing treat to treat patients like criminals in your Hawaii bill. Consent to urine testing….

    Go away.

    • I don’t think you read correctly, The_cat

      The Hawaii bill is NOT W-BAD’s bill. Hawaii legislators came up with that all on their own. W-BAD’s campaign section is an attempt to get the bill amended to one that includes informed consent, and that makes protections for people who are already iatrogenically dependent on benzodiazepines. Perhaps this needs better clarifying on the site.

      Please see the amendment in red: http://w-bad.org/hawaii-bill-sb505/

      Go here: http://w-bad.org/campaign-us/ and read the sample letter for Hawaii.

      W-BAD does not support mandatory drug-testing for taken-as-prescribed benzodiazepine dependent patients.

      • The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

        This includes my urine , blood and hair for their fascist drug tests.

        “I don’t think you read correctly, The_cat”

        This is Google’s cache of http://w-bad.org/hawaii-bill-sb505/. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Jun 9, 2017 14:19:45 GMT.
        The current page could have changed in the meantime. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7pI8EDUwm44J:w-bad.org/hawaii-bill-sb505/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

        There was nothing to read. That red was not there. Maybe they hoped people would jump on bandwagon without reading the fine print.

        “While it is imperative to regulate and limit the length for which new benzodiazepine prescriptions can be given to a period of a week or two, which this bill does”

        Why so more people walk out the door on Paxil and Lamictal or some other alternative chemical nightmare ?

        I do not like the idea of the government playing doctor.

        The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and nobody paves that road better then these busybody control freaks “passing legislation”

          • Again, you did not read. No one is asking anyone to “jump on the bandwagon”. We are asking people to CONTACT the legislators behind this bill and attempt to have it amended so that it doesn’t harm BZ patients as it is written.

            The red was added after you posted on here and complained, so W-BAD attempted to clarify so that others, like you, wouldn’t be confused (since you were obviously confused).

            It’s not a giant conspiracy theory like you think. It’s an effort to contact lawmakers WHO ARE GOING TO MAKE THESE BILLS HOWEVER THEY WANT THEM if someone doesn’t step up and contact them and attempt to make changes in them or influence them so that they are better bills.

            I think if you’d pause for a moment with the accusations and actually read what is being asked of people, you’ll see that we DON’T agree with the Hawaii bill as it’s written, which is why an entire campaign section exists asking people to contact Hawaii legislators to have it amended.

          • And I believe you even read the bill wrong – as I’m not positive the drug testing in the bill is for BZs, as the majority of the Hawaii bill is an opiate bill. The only reason it was on W-BAD’s radar is bc it does mention BZs, but is an insufficient bill in regards to protecting BZ patients and providing BZ patients the informed consent they deserve.

  2. I might just start an awareness day for “Benzodiazepine Awareness Day”.

    Beware of Benzodiazepine Awareness Day, it looks nice on the outside but their goal is to pass legislation to treat patients like criminals on probation with drug testing and to enable the control freaks in government to make decisions that should be between you and your doctor.

  3. Cat

    People need to be aware that 10-15+ percent of those prescribed benzodiazepines are at risk for a severe post withdrawal syndrome that can last for years/the rest of your life. It is a living hell.

    True informed consent in regard all psych drugs/pharma drugs *rarely* happens.

    Those that experience adverse effects can become a ‘burden’ on society…and you libertarians wouldn’t like that at all, would you, CAT?

    • “libertarians” Explain to me how the 4th amendment does not apply to drug testing.

      Now the MIA crew wants to make doctors even more like police and probation officers ?

      What happens to a person who gets a false positive do we take away their benzo RX and stick them on a locked psych ward for forced withdrawal ?

      I had an 8mg a day benzo dependency for years and they only time I became a burden is when people with “good intentions” got in the way of my supply with dumbshit hassles. Those ER visits are expensive.

      Good intentions got me prescribed Zyprexa a chemical nightmare 100 times more toxic then Xanax or Clonopin that don’t cause weight gain or diabetes. They said that zombie poison Zyprexa was “non addictive” but it causes withdrawal reactions worse then Clonopin and Xanax.

      And how about this for logic? You are mentally ill and need to take pills every day but you can’t have the benzos that actually work becuase you may become dependent and need to take them every day.

      I like informed consent, in the United States, a boxed warning that appears on the package insert for certain prescription drugs, so called because the U.S. Food and Drug Administration specifies that it is formatted with a ‘box’ or border around the text.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxed_warning

      Why all this “passing legislation” instead of using regulation like printing the informed consent in something like a black box warning ?

      • IMNSHO
        I think benzos should be used only in very specific circumstances short term.

        ONLY!
        They are *dangerous* and TOXIC and are handed out like candy impacting a huge segment of society, many of whom are unseen and are unknowing as they get medicated with additional drugs for the adverse symptoms that the benzos themselves cause.

        • ____________________________________________
          They are *dangerous* and TOXIC and are handed out like candy impacting a huge segment of society, many of whom are unseen and are unknowing as they get medicated with additional drugs for the adverse symptoms that the benzos themselves cause.
          ____________________________________________

          Your post would be perfect for a black box warning.

          • But who reads the black box warnings? What good does it do to have a black box warning on SSRIs when their usage rate has gone up exponentially since those warnings were place in 2004?

            I really do understand where you are coming from but I don’t see a black box warning being a better alternative.

  4. Lets see, alcohol prohibition was an epic fail. The crackdown on opiate prescriptions backfired and brought in heroin and fentanyl and started the war on chronic pain patients making their lives miserable.

    But this time with benzodiazapines the prohibitionists will pull it off without unforeseen consequences.

    • This sentence specifically appears in W-BAD’s Mission Statement: “W-BAD does not seek to restrict access to these drugs for those who feel that they may benefit from them, nor does it seek to force anyone to stop or reduce against their own will.”

      But, you’re too stuck on this “prohibition” rant and throwing around false accusations to actually read and decipher what is actually going on.

      • I deciphered it very well, I see where this is going and what is actually going on.

        “Agree to or suggest random or regularly scheduled drug testing (if you can afford it), if the prescriber requires that to continue repeat prescriptions to allow for your continued use of BZs or taper, to prove that it is compliant and as prescribed use occurring as opposed to addiction.

        In the US, ask that your prescriber consults the prescription drug monitoring program (PDMP) to prove that you have been compliantly taking the BZ and not “doctor shopping”. If you are located outside of the US, ask that they check whatever database keeps track of that information —if any. ”

        http://w-bad.org/cutoff/
        http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://w-bad.org/cutoff/

        “Good intentions” so lets play the guilty until proven innocent game, prove your innocence with drug tests, why is its always this big brother police state crap thrown at patients?

        Mandatory Drug tests, drop your pants and pee wile someone looks at your privates and patient tracking databases.

        No thank-you.

        • And yet you conveniently ignored all the other suggestions given to people like finding a different cooperative doctor, showing them tapering information, etc if the one you have won’t cooperate. Sorry, but we’re talking about people in bad situations here where they have an option of being cut off and sent into potential years of torture or asking that the doctor consults the monitoring program (which they have access to anyhow, all they have to do is log in and look) or gives a drug test once in a while. Sorry, but I think some people would much rather pee in a cup here and there until trust is built than be thrown out without their medication into a severe state of CT withdrawal. In a perfect world, you could just go to another doctor (which was suggested) to find a “benzo-wise” one, but it’s not a perfect world. Some people live in small towns and only have a few to choose from, etc. So you suggest they adamantly refuse anything and just go CT in order to be a martyr? Good idea.

          The reality is: a lot of measures to control BZs are probably coming down the pipe, and we can have our hand in the legislation or we can just sit back and let legislatures make harmful legisltations that will hurt tons of the people. The other reality is, a lot of doctors are just refusing to prescribe now bc they’re getting letters telling them they prescribe too many benzos and that might take some “hoop jumping” on the parts of people already physically dependent. We don’t condone it, but sometimes if you don’t want to die or suffer, you have to play by their rules and be active in making suggestions that might help yourself, even if it’s the wrong way for the medical professionals/governing bodies to go about it.

          Me? I would’ve peed in a cup ASAP if it meant I didn’t get CT’ed and could taper properly.

          • I can’t pee with people watching and it is degrading and humilating.

            “Please sir can i have some more?” Begged Oliver Twist, as he was starving for more. I will pee in a cup do what ever you say… Please sir can i have some more? Not me I will not behave that way.

            “if you don’t want to die or suffer, you have to play by their rules”

            I did not play by their rules, I got tired of them http://www.google.com/search?q=buy+xanax+online

            But I remember one time my doctor upped my dose before the month was over so I go to the pharmacy and people with “good intentions” tell me insurance says we can’t refill this yet. Its not a refill it a new Rx for a larger amount and I will pay cash.

            We have to call the doctor… The next day after being up all night in withdrawals I go back did you call doctor? Give me my pills.

            I am told I should try calling doctor, I go home and try. Get that message if this is emergency call 911 or go to ER.

            I go back to that pharmacy with my video camera and stick it in their face. I have a new RX for a new dosage, I will pay cash, please tell me why I can’t have my pills.

            Those pharmacy people with the usual pale skinned tired eyed look did not know how to answer on camera to why my Rx was being withheld now that it was being recorded so they hand it over and take my money.

            One hassle after another, one time I ran out and did not feel like doing the ER thing and risking an admission to psych, the lockup and and the “non addictive” pill experiments that go with it so I went to that part of town that does not require an Rx for drugs and snorted a bag of heroin to get to sleep.

            One time in the ER I could tell they were considering a psych admission so I told them hurry up I think I left my stove on I need to get home before the house catches fire and they did not feel like dealing with all that and I left with a small Ativan Rx.

            I was assuming you lived this thing and know how once a person gets to liking how well benzos work on anxiety none of these road blocks and hassles are going to stop them from getting what they want.

            I can’t see any other result from getting the legislators involved then the same nightmare inflicted on people with legitimate anxiety problems as was inflicted on people with chronic pain when the “pass legislation” people decided to “fix” the so called opiate problem.

          • Interesting about doctors being no longer willing to prescribe BZ meds. The s.m.i. clinic I use to attend had printed sign on the front entry window saying that they would no longer write prescriptions for BZ meds.

            If only they feared anti-psychotic meds as much as BZ meds.

  5. The legislators are getting involved whether you like it or not – whether any of us like it. Far better to try to influence and guide them than for them to be left to their own clueless devices.

    I did live this and am still living it. And I never “liked” how benzos “worked”, as they didn’t work for me. They CAUSED anxiety and terror and panic like I’ve never experienced in my life. I wanted nothing but to get off of them forever (and I have). Now had I only been allowed to taper properly, I wouldn’t be stuck in year 7 of neurological disruption from them.

    • If they are getting involved the odds overwhelmingly predict more harm then good.

      “Number of Americans who experience panic-attack symptoms per month:
      1 million Number of Americans who will suffer from PD at some point in their
      lives: 3 million (or 1 in 75) Percentage of PD patients who visit the emergency room in a
      six-month period: 28

      (1993) https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199307/stats-panic-disorder

      Whats going to happen to those people ?

      One thing I do know is that “non addictive” drugs never worked on my anxiety and the benzo trap is worse then the anxiety.

      I must have heard and read 100s of times that “non addictive” anti depressants help with anxiety, it did not work for me and never have I heard a personal testimonial of antidepressants working on anxiety from a person in real life despite being around addiction recovery and hearing drug talk all the time.

      Maybe they can pass legislation requiring doctors to own up to the fact that GAD is rarely successfully treated with drugs and warn people that there chances of more harm then good are much greater then treatment success.

  6. “ADDICTION AND PHYSICAL DEPENDENCE ARE NOT SYNONYMOUS”

    Physical dependence, tolerance and addiction are discrete and different phenomena that are often confused. Since their clinical implications and management differ markedly, it is important that uniform definitions, based on current scientific and clinical understanding, be established in order to promote better care of patients…

    http://w-bad.org/addiction-dependency/

    “based on current scientific and clinical understanding” THAT made me laugh , I am actually laughing right now after reading that.

    Studies show people will believe anything if you say studies show before saying it.

    I went to rehabs and the worked at rehabs and have seen 100s of people stuck in the benzo trap, when those withdrawals hit the behavior is exactly the same – get more. Buy from street or get from doctor the pills do what the pills do. I have stayed up all night with them driven them to the ER, I know all about this.

    You people remind me of that front for the temperance movement M.A.D.D that ushered in the show ID police state war on fun. Now instead of drinking beers kids do more drugs, nice work “MADD”

    Whats going to happen when you win your war on benzodiazapines ?

    More people subjected to Paxil and Lamictal and Effexxor and Cymbalta and Zyprexa and Depakote there is not even any warning on that website about doctors switching people from the benzos (that work if they don’t screw with your supply) to the “non addictive” chemical nightmares that have withdrawals “physical dependence” as opposed to your “addictive dependence” that are “are discrete and different phenomena” wile you are up all night and vomiting.

    I think we really do need a Beware of Benzodiazepine Awareness Day.

    Beware of Benzodiazepine Awareness Day http://www.psychforums.com/anti-psych/topic196789.html

    Patients in doctors offices everywhere – Oh great they won the war on Benzos now instead of Clonopin I get Paxil and Lamictal and Effexxor and Cymbalta and Zyprexa and Depakote instead , yippy !

    • You’re really good at making sweeping generalizations and assumptions, the_cat…the problem is, none of them are actually factual. If your experience consisted of doctor shopping and hitting the streets for benzos, please own that. But don’t assign that to other people, as for many that was not the case.

      Myself, I lived in tolerance withdrawal for years (not knowing what it was) and saw the same treating MD the entire time and never “hit the streets”.

      If you can’t understand the fundamental differences between a physiological/physical dependence and an addiction with clear definitions, I’m not sure how to help you. Using the correct terminology helps people who KNOW they’re not addicts and who don’t identify with addiction because they’re “taking a medicine my doctor gave me”realize that this message applies to them too and that they’re at risk. It also protects the people who used them appropriately from being misdiagnosed with a “substance use disorder” which they don’t have and from being “cut off” because people like you stigmatize and generalize that everyone on benzos is an addict and has addict behaviors, which is false.

      If you’re worried about the other drugs, as are we, there’s plenty of anti-psychiatry movements you can join. We aren’t responsible for all of the problems in the world or that psychiatry has created. If you don’t like our organization, don’t participate. I’d urge you to get yourself educated though and to really work on your generalization/assumption problem.

      • “If you can’t understand the fundamental differences between a physiological/physical dependence and an addiction with clear definitions”

        There is no difference, anyone can make up definitions label them as “official” to try and define things into existence. Psychiatry’s diagnostic criteria are literally voted into existence and inserted into the DSM and that is exactly what you are doing.

        You people just like that addict definition for some people over others to press your drug testing and continuing stigmatization of so called “addicts”

        * Myself, I lived in tolerance withdrawal for years (not knowing what it was) and saw the same treating MD the entire time and never “hit the streets” *

        Don’t lie to me, you knew increasing the does would solve the tolerance withdrawal. Don’t even try and tell me that for years you never ever took an extra pill or took one early to feel better. Don’t even try that one.

        You only had “physical dependence” for saying please sir can I have some more to the medical mafia like a little sheep but I am an “addict” for realizing they were screwing me over and procuring my own supply to avoid pain of it? Give me a break.

        I guess there is a “medical” and psychological difference between an alcoholic that buys from the store vs one who makes his own moonshine too.

        “If you don’t like our organization, don’t participate.”

        It doesn’t work that way, sorry. Your not going to hitch your wagon to the human rights in psychiatry movement wile pushing drug testing and turning doctors offices into probation departments , that’s not happening.

        Patients in doctors offices everywhere – Oh great the neo temperance movement fanatics won the war on Benzos now instead of Clonopin I get Paxil and Lamictal and Effexor and Cymbalta and Zyprexa and Depakote instead , yippy !

        Thanks “w-bad.org”

        • It is clear you have an agenda – one in which you want to apply your experience to everyone else (and call them liars when they tell their story). You sit on here and moan about psychiatry labeling and dismissing and harming people and then when people share their stories, you call them outright liars. Sounds awfully hypocritical to me and like you’re doing the exact same thing. Along with your perpetual cherrypicking of information and taking it out of context in an attempt to back up that agenda you have.

          If you want information on the other psychiatric drugs you insist people are going to be put on if benzodiazpeines are regulated, write it yourself. You spend all day on here leaving angry rants, surely you could do something more productive? I guess submitting some information you’d like presented is a lot harder though than whining on the internet all day.

          People are using w-bad to share their stories in a collective nature to warn others about prescribed benzodiazepine dependence and withdrawal, and we don’t have to get permission from the angry Mad in America commenter the_cat to do it. There’s a documentary coming out about benzodiazepines soon too – and not all the psychiatric drugs – just benzodiazepines. In fact there was another one not too long ago by Shane Kenny. People are allowed to focus on one class of drugs and on one topic and a certain group in that topic (people who took them as prescribed) without running it past you and without taking on the entire psychiatric drug epidemic.

          Great chat the_cat.

          P.S. it’s Klonopin or Clonazepam, not Clonopin.

          • “People are using w-bad to share their stories in a collective nature to warn others about prescribed benzodiazepine dependence and withdrawal”

            That’s backwards, w-bad is using peoples misfortunes to turn doctors offices into probation departments with drug tests and patients into suspects including logging them into databases. Its just the benzo version of the war on pain patients.

            “Clear definitions” that was funny. I like laughing, please sir can I have some more clear definitions ?

            Nice job avoiding the topic of your fabricated difference between a physiological/physical dependence and an addiction. I knew you couldn’t handle that one.

          • Oh I didn’t avoid it, I’m just done having a discussion with someone who twists everything around and cherrypicks information to suit their own rant.

            If you think a third degree burn patient on an IV morphine drip in the hospital is the same as a heroin addict in regards to behaviors/treatment required, etc – Im not sure what to tell you. It’s a basic concept. Do you call people on SSRIs addicts too? And accuse them of abusing their drugs? Or just benzo people? Beta blockers? Corticosteroids? Are they all addicts too?

            I don’t plan to interact with you further, so have a great day.

  7. “If you think a third degree burn patient on an IV morphine drip in the hospital is the same as a heroin addict”

    Go ahead and don’t reply. Its you war on drugs people that will turn that burn patient into a heroin addict when he or her is in pain and can’t get medication because you people turned his doctor into a probation officer complete with drug tests, databases, and a DEA agent between him and his treatment.

    • Yeah, a bunch of sick victims of prescribed benzodiazepines looking to tell their stories and warn others about this class of drug are responsible for the prescription drug monitoring program that already exists and has for some time. And the one bill we’re asking people to support in Massachusetts that calls for informed consent and protections for long-term benzodiazepine patients to be allowed to stay on them or taper off at their own speed is really the “war on drugs”. You don’t read to comprehend, the_cat, you read to respond.

      • Just how does one comprehend complete contradictions ?

        Its like trying to understand those politicians who say we need gun control to protect children and increased funding for abortions, not the kind of people I want legislating my medical treatment.

        “To encourage the establishment of a mandatory maximum prescribing period of no more than 4 weeks of regular use”

        https://web.archive.org/web/20170614200654/http://w-bad.org/what/

        “mandatory”

        But then you contradict your own statement on the same page: “W-BAD does not seek to restrict access to these drugs for those who feel that they may benefit from them”

        You can’t have mandatory prescribing laws handed down by governments practicing medicine without a license and at the same time not restrict access to these drugs for those who feel that they may benefit from them, so which is it ?

  8. “We aren’t responsible for all of the problems in the world or that psychiatry has created.”

    So you are just going to hyper-focus on psychiatry’s use of benzos ?

    Consequences fan out in all directions over time. Life is like playing piano with oven mitts on. You go to hit one just one key and others get hit in the process.

    Patients in doctors offices everywhere – Oh great they won the war on Benzos now instead of Klonopin I can get Paxil and Lamictal and Effexor and Cymbalta and Zyprexa and Depakote instead , yippy !

    Patient in ER with panic attack — What the hell they won’t let me go home ! The benzo drug that would made me feel better in 20 minutes has been demonized so now I get sent up to psych for a strip search followed by forced pill experiments with Paxil and Lamictal and Effexor and Cymbalta and Zyprexa and Depakote or what ever shuffle and drool zombie drug nightmare is on the attending quacks menu instead , yippy !

    Innocent evil is moral philosophy’s hardest problem. People with the moral intentions yielding immoral consequences.

    • No one is “demonizing” benzos for intermittent or short-term use. If someone is having a panic attack in the hospital, a one time dose of benzo is not using them long-term.

      So, by your logic, if people protested and got Thalidomide off the market (just as an example) for causing birth defects and then the pharma company came up with a new drug that caused problems, it’s the fault of the people who got Thalidomide off the market? Yeah, sorry – I think you’re misdirecting responsibility. Sorry, but the victims of this drug don’t bear the responsibility of psychiatry’s and pharma’s failings.

      The victims of these drugs aren’t going to be silent like you’re asking us to (and essentially trying to guilt us into). We were maimed and badly injured by this class of drug and are going to tell our stories and fight for change where people get informed consent and where new would-be victims are protected (and at least know what they’re signing up for, unlike what happened to most BZ victims) and that long-term prescribed dependents aren’t ripped off dangerously into CTs.

      Or we can just sit by like you propose and allow more bills like the one in Hawaii to pop up without any protections and let people get screwed anyhow, which will happen anyhow. I’m sure you’ll blame the victims then too like you’ve blamed us for the prescription monitoring program and everything else that doesn’t fit into your eutopian view of the world which is unrealistic.

  9. *The victims of these drugs aren’t going to be silent like you’re asking us to (and essentially trying to guilt us into).*

    *Or we can just sit by like you propose*

    The trolley problem is a thought experiment in ethics. The general form of the problem is this:

    There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options:

    Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track.
    Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.

    Which is the most ethical choice?

    As before, a trolley is hurtling down a track towards five people. You are on a bridge under which it will pass, and you can stop it by putting something very heavy in front of it. As it happens, there is a very fat man next to you – your only way to stop the trolley is to push him over the bridge and onto the track, killing him to save five. Should you proceed?

    *Sorry, but the victims of this drug don’t bear the responsibility of psychiatry’s and pharma’s failings.*

    You are fighting against the over prescribing of benzodiazapines and opiates, you know that your method of action will make some groups of innocent patients suffer who otherwise would not have but it may save a larger number of other patients from suffering, should you proceed?

    • Now benzo people who you were mad at for focusing only on benzos are responsible for opiate regulations too? lol. You really do have an idealistic view of the world which is not based in reality. You realize states are calling “states of emergency” and the governors and legislators are passing opiate regulations and have been for a long time right?

      I really am done now with our discussion. Utopia would be nice, the_cat. It doesn’t exist though.

      Be well.

      • *Sorry, but the victims of this drug don’t bear the responsibility of psychiatry’s and pharma’s failings.*

        Once we step in and alter course of events we do bear that responsibility. I won’t push that innocent patient with panic disorder or the chronic pain patient over the bridge like in the trolley dilemma to protect people like me that should have got on there damn computer and typed in Xanax and did a little reading.

        My world is reality, good luck with your utopian fantasy where government protects everyone from everything and no one has to take any responsibility for their own well being.

  10. Cole

    W-bad.org is a great website and your responses have been right on. Thank you for everything you are doing to fight this worldwide benzodiazepine crisis.

    In this discussion we can see the inherent flaws and contradictions with Libertarian thinking. They all worship at the alter of “free market” capitalism actually believing that it is somehow really “free.” In the real world it is only free for those people powerful enough (or lucky enough) to get to the top of the economic and political pyramid.

    And those people who believe in this nonsense and who are not in with the 1% at the very top, are just “wannabes” dreaming of somehow making it to the top. It is same mentality that gets millions of poor people to play the Lottery dreaming of an “individual” path to some sort of stability and happiness.

    All this WILL NOT change the world but only give us more of the same forms of human oppression while defending the status quo.

    Richard

    • You don’t understand the libertarian philosophy at all.

      For example most of you don’t understand it is the democrats and liberals who make 10,001 different rules to do business in this country and then bitch when the big corporations monopolize everything becuase they are the only ones who can dedicate a massive legal department and other staff to dealing with BS government rules and regulations.

      For example Universal Health Services can abuse inpatients all day long cause few lawyers want to go up against there massive legal dept. Why are there so little choices for mental health care outside the big pharma psychiatric model ?

      Was it libertarians who made 10,001 different rules and regulations to make low capital startups almost impossible or was it the liberal democrats that insist on government micro management of everything with 10,001 stupid expensive rules to shut out the little guy ?

      Obamacare in network or out of network as long as it is government approved on size fits all bio psych pharma model treatment.

      Typical BS from left about that evil 1% followed by support for the very policies that allow it to happen. You create the conditions then complain about the results.

      Venezuela’s child malnutrition crisis grows BBC 16 hours ago http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-40130224/venezuela-s-child-malnutrition-crisis-grows

  11. *All this WILL NOT change the world but only give us more of the same forms of human oppression while defending the status quo.*

    In all of human history nobody has mastered the art of human oppression better then the lefties.

    Under modest estimates, the deaths under socialist-inspired societies reach 100 million people, their lives destroyed by a completely failed ideology,

    Epic fail every time but they tell us this time it will be different. Ignore history give it one more chance. I guess it is getting better they have moved up from producing mass murder and now we only seem to get the mass starvation part.

    Hungry Venezuelans killing flamingos and anteaters for food …
    Miami Herald-Feb 10, 2017

    Venezuela food shortages cause some to hunt dogs, cats, pigeons
    USA TODAY-May 18, 2016

    Hungry Venezuelans Hunt Dogs, Cats, Pigeons as Food Runs Out
    PanAm Post-May 4, 2016

    Pets starved, abandoned as Venezuela economic crisis deepens
    Chicago Tribune-Sep 7, 2016

    Heartbreaking photos show Venezuela’s abandoned dogs
    Washington Post-Sep 26, 2016

    Starving Venezuelans dying for eating poisonous yuca sold in black …
    Fox News-Mar 23, 2017
    Starving Venezuelans dying for eating poisonous yuca sold in black … and Punta de Araya families got through the summer by eating “dog …

    Story image for venezuelans eating cats and dogs from National Geographic
    Animals Starving in Venezuela Zoos
    National Geographic-Jul 28, 2016

  12. Unintended consequences

    When members finally got back to work, management enforced a new drug-test policy that’s wreaked havoc. Drug Tests Followed by Steelworker Suicides

    Dragich says about 150 workers tested positive. Dan Simmons, Local 1899 president, said 67 workers were forced into “last-chance” agreements. Any presence of drugs—or alcohol—during subsequent tests meant discharge.

    About 10 workers were quickly fired, Dragich says. One of them, craneman David Doris, killed himself.

    My Story: Drug Tests and Pain Contracts Violate Patient Rights http://nationalpainreport.com/my-story-drug-tests-and-pain-contracts-violate-patient-rights-8824576.html

    Debra Silvestri slipped into the women’s bathroom at the district courthouse, pulling a plastic bag full of sedatives and antidepressants from her purse. Her lawyer had just told her the judge was thinking of sending her to a women’s prison because a court-ordered test showed she had been drinking.

    Then, she took a seat at the front of the courtroom. One hour into the session, she slumped over, eyes closed. Two women sitting next to Silvestri grabbed her to keep her from falling to the floor.

    By the time the ambulance pulled up to the emergency room, it was too late. The medical examiner ruled her death a suicide. https://apps.bostonglobe.com/spotlight/the-desperate-and-the-dead/series/courts/

    The “we gotta do something” response to the so called opiate problem was a total backfire, pain patients one faulty cheap ass made in China drug test false positive can have an atrocious impact on their lives yet the intended result of stopping or slowing the so called opiate epidemic failed.

    But I am supposed to believe that with using the exact same alarmist tactics to stir up the control freaks in government we won’t have the similar results. Nothing on this we bad website to convince me of anything else. I did look. I really did, I read almost every page.

    At first do no harm is not just for doctors.