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Mazel tov, Emily
A very thoughtful review, Susan. Much thanks
Yes, Chaya, I kind of suspected that would appeal to you
much appreciated, anothervoice
The list would go on forever, but yes, it would feel good.
Oh it is cursed, Frank. It just does not know it yet.
Thanks for asking, Bippyone. My novel “The Other Mrs Smith” is likely to come out in either the late fall or very early winter. I am exciting by the prospect of it coming out for I think it is an important piece of consciousness raising, as indeed art can be.. It is something that I promised a friend who is a shock survivor in Toronto –the now deceased Carla MacKague, that one way or another I would perserver with until it got out. And while she did not live to see it, in my very last phone call with her, –and we only got to talk for a couple minutes for she was too sick to stay longer on phone –I got to tell her that it was in the bag, as it were.
Anyway, do stay tune for it could be coming out as early as October, depending how quickly the publisher moves.
Using the oppressors’ own research against them is indeed an important strategy for us all to cultivate.
yes, it is sad, Borut.
Antip:To be clear, cursing with a “mental health professional” present would of course be highly unwise. So would cursing in any other place where it is likely to land one in trouble. Knowing what is possible where, what is safe and what is unsafe and when and where is a type of acquired literacy that is indispensable. As for books, I have written a large many.
Nice to hear from you. All the best
One way of interpreting it, Oldhead. The other is less pragmatic, and more of an ironic bent.
Good to hear about both the cheering up the plotted exit. All the best.
I am not sure whether or not CAPA is the only active antipsychiatry group going –but active, we surely are. May guess is that there are a few others. I have a hunch that there is one in France. And for sure, there are lots on individuals throughout the world. Maybe if we started a network, we would soon find groups coming out from the woodwork. There is a CAPA meeting this Sunday. Do you want me to float the idea around about CAPA of taking the first step to facilitating the formation of a network of antipsychiatry groups and individuals? And if so, what do you think that first small step should look like? We are absurdly busy right now –but it is something that we could possibly more seriously look at, say, come May.
Not meaning to offend you, EliseMaia, and I don’t know if this helps, but as I think about what people are subjected to, there are some obscenities so profound –and I count ECT among them –that a response that is totally polite feels inadequate. Ergo, resolution language which gives voice to that.
There are a lot of books that deal well with the science and show that all of it is faulty. My recommendation Harper, would be to read some of these and you may glean a better idea of why people are responding as they are.
I belong to and am chair of n antipsychiatry group in Toronto Canada called “Coalition Against Psychiatric Assault, which has been active for a very long time. If others also belong to antipsychiatry organization, we could put on the agenda of our different groups having a international network that we could all join. Where are others on this issue? Have you local groups that are antipsychiatry? Could you form one if you have not one already? Could you take the initiative for them to join a network? Having at very least a network with some basic principles, is, I would think, very doable.
There was no one there, Frank, who was committed to keeping up the momentum. Single demonstrations do very little. You need an organized campaign. And accounts in a very important way for why all initiatives have failed.
yes, I recall her doing that, which is why I stayed away from the various comments about her in the last little while. So sorry about what happened to you, Truth. And yes, Oldhead, we need to speak back to celebrities becoming “poster children” for the “mental health” message.
Richard, I am glad you like the blog, and as always, it is good to hear from you, Re the contradictory nature of Gandhi, I assume that all leaders are to varying degrees contradictory, but that does not stop me from seriously considering their espoused principles. As for Gandhi, I am concerned by your statement that it is “an historical truth that during his lifetime there was not a single war he did not like, and he ended up actively helping to recruit people to fight in those wars.” I cannot but feel this is a serious exaggeration, as opposed to a “historical fact” for it flies in the face of many of the very clear stands he took when countries were under attack (not all of which I agree with, by the way, but which were nonetheless distinctly in conformity with the principles of non-violent resistance). Also, there is a sense in this post as well as some of those by others that “revolutionary” necessarily means the inclusion of violence, an equation which is not something I agree with, though I very much agree that “revolutionary” definitively means the concerted application of some kind of pressure or force (in other words, that consciousness-raising itself is not enough). Anyway, just my two cents so that you know where I am coming from. I respect that often that those of us who are radical are forced to agree to disagree on such things for we are highly unlikely to convince one another, and there in the end, a great deal that unites us.
Of course, but the point is that it won’t. That’s why we need to get a whole lot better both educating and applying pressure.
I am all for coordinated campaigns.
A single world demonstration does very little, as you can see, though it was a good beginning. But a demonstration is not a prolonged strategy. You need a coordinated campaign with multiple tactics. It is not that none of us have the knowledge to bring this off. what we do no have is the people power. In essence, we need a far far bigger movement with people willing to act.
Hi again, Frank: Your point about Cooper, for sure is important. And yes, as you know, I am an anarchist. the problem with the Wikipedia pages, is beyond what you outline. Almost none of what they include is actually antipsychiatry. Moreover, it is incredibly American-centric.
Yes, indeed, an antipsychiatric 2017.
Thanks for the comments, Oldhead. To be clear, I am not an evolutionist and yes I agree pressure is needed. While I value much of Marx, my idea of pressure however, stems more from Gandhi. That noted, it goes without saying that i totally agree that we need an unequivocally antipsychiatry agenda–something not clouded by reformism,
well put, Frank
good to hear!
The attrition model of abolition assumes just that , that is, assumes that this is a slow and gradual process.
After so little attention, it is great that we all together making this happen Phil. Thank you and thank everyone else for all your hard work making these breakthroughs happen.
Yes, indeed, there are lots of metaphors from nature that would do.
Oldhead, it is hard to say re the attacks on the scholarship, but at very least, it did not seem to hurt
glad you were able to make it, Lerkkweed, and thanks for the comment.
Always good to hear from you, Frank
much thanks, Richard.
An interesting interview. That said, let me just weight in with the thought that it very much matters what words we use, and insofar as any of us use words like “schizophrenic” and “psychotic”, we are thereby implying their legitimacy and in the process we are upholding psychiatry. And while this issue may look minor, it is not. As Black feminist Audre Lorde so poignantly put it, “The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.”
All the best.
Hi there, everyone. First let me profusely thank all of the people who have come to my defence re the criticism of the scholarship that has been coming out in Canadian sources. Much appreciated. That said, let me correct a misimpression that first appeared in one of the comments on MIA and keeps getting recycled. The scholarship is not something for the medical school at University of Toronto. It is for students at OISE (Ontario Institute for Studies in Education), which is the graduate faculty of education at University of Toronto. It has particularly relevance for Adult Education and Community Development (which is a social change and activist program). Correspondingly, there is not remotely a course in antipsychiatry in the medical school. Rather there is an integration of antipsychiatry into my courses at OISE, as well as a coterie of students doing theses in this area, including students who are psychiatric survivors. Hope this helps clarify.
Alex, obviously on anything that keeps the systems running, we would not be allies. We are not wanting to “improve” the system after all, but get rid of it. Where can we often ally with folk who are not antipsychiatry? By doing things together that they also want that fall within the parameters of the attrition model of abolition (see my on this in Psychiatry Disrupted). What the attrition model does is to call on antipsychiatry activists to only support reform that moves in the direction of psychiatry abolition. A concrete example, we can ally with groups that want to get rid of non-voluntary treatment, including those folk that are not remotely antipsychiatry. Why? Because albeit it is not sufficient, willynilly, it moves society in the direction of psychiatry abolition. By the same token and for the same reasons, we can ally with people who are not antipsychiatry who want to get rid of electroshock. In my chapter I go through a bunch of examples of how this can of reasoning can be used and has been used to decide what to support and what not support, what to ally over and what not.
Nice to hear someone referring to the 1982 principles, Oldhead. Those of us in Toronto, where as you know, the conference was hosted, have always been proud of these 1982 principles and antipsychiatry folk in Toronto continue to live by them. That said, while Toronto is an oasis and has continued to sport one of the few truly antipsychiatry groups around, our ability to grow has been greatly impeded. And while there are many reasons for this,yes, one is precisely the co-optation of survivors etc. by the government and also by reformist professionals who do not understand liberation or liberation movements. Also, in the 80s we had the interest of the media (I will never forget the extensive and for the most part positive coverage which they gave us when Don Weitz, Shirley Johnson and I (as reps of Coalition Against Electroshock) staged a three day sit-in in the Minister of Health’s office –but the media has now almost totally bought the biological story line, the myth of the dangerous “mental patient” and except in isolated cases has little regard for the rampant denial of human rights. In this regard,psychiatry has successfully sold the public on its message. So successful have they been, that the legal route is not what we would have hoped, for judges continue to be intransigent and so when there are legal challenges, we almost always lose.
I see little shift in the media, or in the judiciary. Where I am seeing shifts right now, however, is with survivors themselves and in academia. Survivors for decades avoided antipsychiatry like the plague, going rather with a “reformist” bent and now by contrast, what we see is more and more survivors once again actually interested in antipsychiatry. We are also in different ways seeing legitimation of the area in academia–hence the scholarship, hence my invitation to use academia in the fight against psychiatry.
So I have to say that I am once again having hope.
As for MindFreedom, please note that MindFreedom is not and has never claimed to be antipsychiatry. Nor does Mad in America. It is into reform of the system, while antipsychiatry folk are clear that the system has to be bit by bit dismantled.
That said, I am grateful for allies even when they are not antipscyhiatry. And I have no interest in fighting with them, only for being aware of when we can and where we cannot work together.
Yes, Frank, it is implicit. At the same time, it is important to make it highly explicitly. To be able to map exactly how and exactly when these other professions are doing the work of the “mental health” regime, and in particular, psychiatry.
My own guess? What you did all those years is likely on the “undermine” continuum, though inevitably it would have at the same time have been mixed with “doing the work” of psychiatric regime. Again, my invitation is to write something for you have your own kind of insider knowledge of this horrific system and you have the location from which to speak to nurses.
I am glad you are enjoying–if that is the word for it–my books. The best book which I have written and will ever write is Psychiatry and the Business of Madness–and you might find it interesting for there is a lengthy discussion of the colonization of nursing, psychology, and social work in it, with these disciplines and their colonization such that they do the work of psychiatry forming one of the chapters.
Agreed, Julie. Anything that uses diagnoses for things that are not diseases, anything that nurtures dependence, anything that increases hierarchy, anything by which others are experts on who a person is and/or should be is inherently unacceptable. As for psychiatrists who totally reject the medical model, yes they exist, and Breggin is an excellent example. At the same time, the majority of them, while often wonderful allies are critical psychiatry, not antipsychiatry, and so will only help us so far in the route that we need to tread, the changes that we need to effect. Their limitation is this regard is that they are into reformism –which as I have written elsewhere is not only not good enough but can be downright counterproductive.
Nathan: Here is my sense of the antipsychiatry activist world re the matter you raised. I have been a very active member since 1980, have worked with activists throughout the world and feel I have a reasonably broad take on the community. What unites us all is antipsychiatry –that is, psychiatry abolition. We differ on other issues. This notwithstanding, besides that I agree with you that a critique of the related areas is absolutely necessary, I have seldom come across an antipsychiatry activist who does not have a critique of psychotherapy, psychology, social work etc. For the reality is, a good part of these are highly compromised and oppressive –and as such, something we do well to be concerned over. The difference is they have a critique–and they operate on it, but they are not calling for abolition of these whereas they are calling for the total abolition of psychiatry. Getting rid of psychiatry, getting rid of compulsory treatment, and getting rid of the “mental health” system as we know it, this is the focus, the point of agreement, and the bottom line. Now some of us (myself included) go further and want to get rid of the state per se, for we see the state as something that will inevitably erode community and create problems for individuals, as well as disempower them –and indeed I see principled anarchism as having a logical relationship to antipsychiatry. At the same time I recognize that this is not something on which antipsychiatry activists are likely to agree, and so I only stress such concepts in my own writing.
It surely is. I could not agree more. Talking to professionals is hardly the optimal way to go and in the long run, this direction destroys and will continue to destroy community.
Viuu, nice to hear from you. Always good to hear from someone who recognizes the mistakes that they have made and now knows whose side they have to be on. So good for you.
That said, that actually places you in a good position to do your part to help discredit psychiatry should you opt to do so. You might want to consider speaking up. You would not be alone in this for while it is very small, there are nurses doing just that. There is even a radical journal of nursing education. Nor is it too late. As for age, I am 71, very sick, and severely disabled, and am still doing that i can–to speak out against what is happening, to take part in demonstrations, to advise, to write, to strategize, etc,, while at the same time teaching full time and being head of my program. So I would not take 67 as too late if you wanted to have an impact here.
Well put, Julie. The only thing it does not cover is the difference between antipsychiatry and critical psychiatry folk. Antipsychiatry folk like me, like Oldhead, like others, are seeking abolition not only of the obvious cooercion (which for sure is pivotal), but of the entire system
I completely agree. We are as antipsychiatry activists opposed to the entire “mental health” system
actually, almost all antipsychiatry folk are highly critical of other parts of the system and other so-called mental health professionals. The difference is that psychiatry is the major focus, and when it comes to professionals, while generally strongly opposing professional inroads, very few are calling for a total abolition of any other profession, though for sure we want to contest a good part of what they do, of the claims which they make, and naturally of the power which they wield. Personally I have been on record repeatedly stating that we do not need more psychologists, etc., in fact, we need a whole lot less. And I have consistently opposed what is called “professionalization”.
Forgive the confusion, Royalperiodot. My fault. I was actually responding to Kal. And the reasons that feelings came up was his words “I am sorry you feel that way.”
As usual, Nomad, you seriously misinterpret me. I am all in favour of legal action. I don’t believe in states, and so the “eutopia” I am talking about is in a stateless society. I never remotely use the concept of recovery. I write about political actions and am persistently engaged in them. Also I am totally opposed to coercion and coercive “treatment”. As for Foucault, besides that to both of our satisfaction, the two us worked together in the 80s, I myself did not put his picture on the blog article (although i do not object to it). Mad in America did.
that said, as responding to your comments in the past about my articles has never led to anything except what I see ever new misinterpretations–something which, I suspect, does neither of us any good: A heads-up, I won’t be responding to further comments of yours. Though of course, you are free to keep commenting, however unfairly.
Please understand that my analysis is not a “feeling” but an analysis. And as I have said already, why I brought up slavery was only to make the point that there are not always two legitimate sides to an issues. There is not with racism; there is no with slavery; there is not with murder, and there is not whether or not with blood-letting. Nor is there with psychiatry–for the paradigm is wrong and the claims do not hold water. Not that I would disclaim that there is connection in some way between slavery and psychiatry –only that this was not the point that I was making.
PaisleyToes, you might want to take a look at the very last chapter of my book Psychiatry and the Business of Madness–for it provides a detailed answer to the question that you have raised.
Sorry, there has been so many comments that I have lost sight of exactly whose life you are referring to.
The only option really is to report.
The comparison with slave owning was to demonstrate one thing and one thing only–that is, it is not true that there always two legitimate sides to an issue. The issue that I am making is a logical one, Kalmd, and so it is totally irrelevant that slavery and psychiatry are not the same thing. The point is that there are not always two legitimate sides to an issue. If you want to know why I reject a side that you don’t, you would have to read my book Psychiatry and the Business of Madness. –All the best.
Kalmd: I understand your concern, but I cannot help you here–for the paradigm is simply wrong and when something is wrong, you have to get rid of it. Just as take one side only on the issue of slavery, I can take one side only on the issue of psychiatry–it is fundamentally flawed and harmful–and it has to go
Much thanks, Richards. It always feels so good hearing from folk who truly get the significance of this breakthrough
Good question –and let me say I don’t think in this case that there is a single answer that fits everyone. Some people get stuck because stuff that happened in their earlier years and the triggers connected with them stop them from grappling constructively. Some because they do not get the support which they need. Some because the oppression out there is continuing to hammer at them, often relentlessly. Some because they are frighteningly isolated. Some because they have bought the line others (worse yet, generally professionals) can fix their problems.
Sorry about what happened to you, and especially that the assault began so young, Carcar
The person that I am trying to reach may or may not have read Foucault. I don’t just have just one audience. Yes, I want to reach the academic, and in an article on using academia –and only in such an article–they are of course one of the primary audiences. More generally, I am interested in reaching everyone who is open to strategizing with me about how to bring down psychiatry.
You are very welcome, Alex.
If you are largely looking for short, my articles are not for you, and you do better to skip them. As it happens I consider nothing in my article extraneous. It is an exploration of a topic. Will my writing influence MDs? Not the most obvious target. Nor does that worry me, for change from within is not what I am seeking. Psychiatrists will not get rid of psychiatry–for their interests runs counter. By the same token, any “reform” which they do will leave the damaging processes in tact. Please note in this regard, there are two different strains of theorists that write in this venue–the critical psychiatry folk and the antipsychiatry folk. And I belong to the latter.
Well put, Frank
There is a profound difference between us. While I believe people can have dire problems in living, including enormous distress and confusion, I do not believe in “mental illness”. This, I see as a medical fiction that does not serve but rather harms the group that it is hypothetically serves. And evil is not so much the word that I would use but rather harmful and self-interested. If you want to know why, Kal, do check out my book Psychiatry and the Business of Madness, where the whole issue is discussed in great detail.
Precisely, Oldhead. These are the types of legitimation, the types inroads that we need.
Very important, for of course, it can’t come to its sense–nor for its existence, can it afford to.
Pretty far from Florida, I am afraid.
I agree with you human being, that academic freedom is very fragile, and no, without a huge fight, we often do not win –the thing is, though, we can fight fight –and then generally win.
thank you, everyone. Yes, I have spent 45 some odd years in academia very much talking about antipsychiatry out loud!
Much thanks, Frank. We are all of us doing this together! And don’t look now, but we have just moved mountains. Incidentally, I a blog coming out tomorrow that will be addressing this and other aspects of the use of academia to fight psychiatry.
because to try to stop t is to admit that disability has a material side. Please note in this regard that people with a social only model of disabiity have labeled people like Breggin and I who object to electroshock because it is brain-damaging ableist. This is what we are up against.
There is a problem with the tenets of critical disability that cannot be ignored and that is–it ultimately dissolves into liberalism and as such, is not “critical” at all. To ignore materialism with respect to psvchiatry makes perfect sense since there is no material difference between the people labeled mentally ill and the people labeled “mentally healthy” (though the damage created by the drugs eventually shifts this). To ignore it where materiality does make a difference (e.g., lungs that don’t breathe) is a whole different matter. How convenient to pretend it is a social construct when our polluting of the environment is involved. By so labeling it, we don’t have to stop the polluting. How convenient for those of us in the global north to say that it is a social construct, when our pollution of the environment and the wars that we foster create the material problems experienced by people in the global south–a reality that we can then ignore. There is a likewise a problem equating what people who are labeled “mentally ill” go through with the word “disability” –an equation, note, that we forget to our detriment, originated with psychiatry itself.
Alex: To be clear, it was never my intention to imply that you were being defensive. I absolutely take your word for what happened in this particular situation. And how good that you took care of yourself in it and bravo for standing up for yourself!I was talking rather about general situations and key principles that we need to touch base with.
Re feminism per se, I do notice that in MadinAmerica, there is very little attention to feminism and when it does turn up, the reaction often strike a defensive (again, I am not commenting on you) A dynamic which tends to worry me. None of which is a comment at all on any particular person or any particular situation.
Re all being human beings together, yes of course that is exactly what we have to do. At the same time, my own position is that we will never really resolve inequities if we do not also focus in on them.
While I am perhaps not as quick to label things this way, Alex, and while there are for sure differences between us here, we are not as far apart on this issue as it might first appear. I feel very differently about jobs than I do than other things –and my guess is that if I were in your place, while I would probably have assessed the situation differently, nonetheless I would have fairly soon walked away from this job situation also as long as if I had first made an honest attempt to learn. And I would have eventually walked away from it whether it was a job situation or not. The thing would be for me to know if I really did listen and that defensiveness on my part was not part of the equation. All of which, you indeed, may well have done yourself. Two bottom lines for me in this regard: The first is that I owe to people who are oppressed in way that I am not to be a learner and see if there are things that i need to adjust irrespective of whether or not I feel I am the object of a degree of unfairness. The second is that I owe it to myself not to stay in a situation where willy-nilly, I remain suspect and disrespected.
I am not arguing that. Nor in any way have said that.
No question, that happens. Fortunately so do other things.
Research suggests that Blacks are oppressed more than whites by psychiatry currently, and for the vast majority of its history, women are oppressed more than men. That said, there is a degree nonetheless, where psychiatry is an “equal opportunity oppress”. That is, it is quite happy to colonize, brain-damage, and otherwise oppress everyone, irrespective of gender, class, and colour.
There is a difference, I would agree, between revolutionary groups and simple identity groups, both of which I see as having a place in the world, but there is one which I priortize more. Marxism is a revolutionary movement, as is anarchism, as is feminism, as is environmentalism. Other things are less clear for they less consistently have a vision for the world. Both the mad movement and the antipsychiatry movement, I see in the in-between zone but veering toward revolutionary/visionary, and at their best, these are both inclusive and visionary. There is a question of timing here, at the same time and a question of emphasis. I do not see BLM as yet revolutionary but I do see it as a just, as necessary, and asprincipalled movement that I am called upon to endorse and actively support as someone who wants to see justice in this world. What is also significant is their complex intersectional analysis.
Am I suggesting that the antipsychiatry movement or the mad movement “join” BLM? I am not –any more than I am suggesting we join any other of the very important movements.What I am suggesting is that we listen to their concerns, do what we can to address their concerns, and more generally find ways for us all to be allies of each other in the fight for a better world.
I am delighted that you like it, Fred.
To be clear, Alex, when I say it is part of the process, that is not a justification of it at all, for I am not making an ethical statement but but a practical one. I personally do not like that kind of organizing and do not find it constructive. But I know that this is where people often need to be and so have found a way of allowing people their space here. Or to put this another way, I just know that it happen, that it inevitably happens, and you do not take it personally when it happens. You just try to be a force for moving beyond this type of analysis without losing your committment and without getting entangled in useless back-and-forth on it. Had I taken it personally and as a sign of something awful every time I was told that I had no right to an opinion for example because I was not a member of the oppressed group, I would not be doing what I am today in any group, including in antipsychiatry. That, I feel, would have been truly unfortunate.
When people from oppressed groups reject those who are from the rest of the population, especially from the other side of the particular oppression binary that they are contending with, this is an expected moment in the development of any movement. I have seen it happen in absolutely every social justice movement, including in the mad movement. The thing is not to take it personally, not to employ words like “reverse sexism” or “reverse racism” but to understand for what it is and to see it as a part of a process.
As a Canadian RR, I see more of what happens in Canada. And what I can tell you is that in Toronto, BlM has stood up against many oppressions including ableism. For an article of mine that shed some light of their recent disruption of Gay Pride and the racist responses to it, which will indeed, shed light on how I have seem BLM, see http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/bonnie-burstow/2016/07/breaking-down-arguments-and-mistruths-against-blmtos-pride-ins
Blacks indeed are more at risk of psychiatric abuse than whites, Johns And that is vital to address; and I am all it favour of it being put front and center in the movement. By the same token, and this keeps being forgotten, women are particularly at risk, and the significance of that reality has long been marginalized in the movement
what you are saying here RR is the same as what sexist men said during the heyday of feminism wheobjecting to women saying that women need human rights. Of course everyone needs right. and of course, everyone matters. But in a hegemonic society, it is always assumed that white lives matters–hence the phrase “black lives matters
I would agree that if would be a very good thing if each of you who are Americans on this website called your Senators about Murphy. In this regard, we need to more actively intervene. The point here is that though analysis is critical, and indeed indispensable, analysis without action, as radical adult educator Paulo Freire puts it, is but verbalism. By the same token, to bring this back to the topic at hand, we should through our actions (both personal and more overtly political) be supporting BLM and indeed all other liberation and social justice movements. That is one of the principal ways that we an create a better society –and issue which includes but transcends identity politics.
I don’t know if this is of help, but my sense is that to our detriment, elements of absolutely every social justice movement sell out elements of other social justice movement. Something that because a problem for us as social activists. Hence the importance both of conscientiously not reducing any any social movement to any other, and finding ways to both hold out to and negotiate between different perspectives.
Agreed, it is the inmates liberation movement and not the consumer movement which stems from the civil rights movement.
Interesting thought, Frank.
Nomadic, It is not that I want to promote the family. It is that for the most part –and there are for sure dreadful experiences to the contrary–I would prioritize the family over the institution. Not that I want to prioritize either for what I most believe in is small communities where everyone has a say and everyone attends to the needs of each other and especially of children and seniors and those in need of support. And note that the purpose of institutional ethnography (my methodology) is to trace precisely how institutions wreak harm in individual lives –to trace, significantly, not to compare or evaluate.
Do I believe in the ideology of the family? As a feminist (and as such, as someone who sees it as part of capitalist patriarchy), and as someone more generally with a radical analysis, of course not.
IN this regard, any given article or book that I write or anyone else writes is not in a vaccuum. It is written in the context of everything else I have written or will write.
Again, all the best.
I am replying to what you wrote further down in this exchange, because I could not do it there. Alex, it is good that both you are your partner are out about the fact that you were basically alone in this. I would have to add, that even where others are fully supportive, as I see it, ultimately no one “saves” anyone else. People save themselves.
Wonderful that you had someone there for you in this highly difficulty but crucial transformation.
Nomadic, I was trying to respond to what you posted on the 26 (or was that 27th) but could not. To answer your questions about Lisa, I don’t want to talk about her as if she were automatically suspect of maybe slipping into being responsible for child abuse, when to me, what she did is dramatically the opposite. Child abuse comes in many forms. The most well know is harming a child or being negligent. And this she not only did not do but ensured that it did not happen. Another form of child abuse, though the law does not so recognize it would be unnecessarily depriving a child of access to their parent or other who was taking care of them. This she also did not do.
That said, while I did not wish to go here for I don’t either want to do anything but celebrate Lisa’s actions, I do get why you wanted an answer to your question. And yes, I agree that question is relevant to this discussion. If Lisa’s solution did not work as in the shouting continued, and she didn’t do what then which she needed to (which likely would include but ideally would not be limited to reporting) then she would be derelict and would bear responsibility.
Again, that is not the person that I know so what I am writing at this point is very much a hypothetical.
All possible, but not what was playing out in this particular story. That said, of course I agree that letting a child be used is not acceptable. I would add at the same time, your trust in things like Child Protection Services is something that I don’t remotely share. A common pattern is the child is removed from slightly abusive home and put in a place that is far more abusive.
Of course protection services are needed. That said, to claim that the fact that a far higher percentage of kid apprehended are those re from oppressed families like working class etc. can be majorly attributed to the fact that the middle class is better able to hide what they do wrong misses a critical ingredient. Given that the determiners of what is abuse and neglect are middle class, white folk, their own classism and racism predisposes them to see “abuse” and “neglect” in how “others” raise their children.