Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych Ward


It was 1991, the year before Hurricane Andrew hit Florida. I was following a guru from India. Having spent my childhood reading books like Siddhartha I was always on the lookout for a teacher. And having found a real guru, I was never able to understand how so many people had amazing out-of-body experiences around this man yet his influence would lead me to the terrible experience of being locked in a psych ward for two years.

There was a rule of chastity in this yoga path. My husband wanted to follow the rule. It was impossible for me to follow, so I found a boyfriend outside our group. This destroyed my marriage and left me with three little boys that my boyfriend did not want after all.

I needed to get a job. But because of the way I was raised, without affection, encouragement or advice, I was ill prepared to deal with the social interactions of a working environment. I was the child who never had a birthday party, or even a birthday acknowledgment. My parents acted like it wasn’t even a special day. They did not celebrate my existence. So my core belief became: “I do not deserve to BE.” I give that one aspect of my childhood as an example of why I felt terrified to be around people whom I perceived to be better than me. There was invalidation on other levels too. I finally decided to run away when I was 15 because I was tired of being physically abused.

I was so anxious about having to raise three boys alone, having to get a job in the outer world away from the shelter of the yoga community, that I felt I was going insane. So I thought of going to see a psychiatrist. I was looking for Carl Jung. Instead I found a system where they give you pills, whether you need them or not.

Now I had been to a psychiatrist once before and he had diagnosed me as bipolar and prescribed lithium. But this time I was having a real spiritual crisis because I’d gotten divorced and was certain God was mad at me. The second time I went to a psychiatrist, they did not do a full intake. The psychiatrist simply asked if I wanted Tegretol or Prozac. I didn’t know anything about these drugs, but I knew that the governor of Florida was taking Prozac and it supposedly helped him. So that was how it was decided that I’d take Prozac. I was only in that doctor’s office for five minutes.

At first the Prozac made me delight in the universe; I felt astonishingly blissful. It was the happiest week of my life next to the day I met my yoga teacher. But at the end of this week my body turned into an enemy. It was an allergic response of systemic lupus erythematosus. Worst disease you can get next to cancer. My limbs were painfully frozen. My skin felt like someone had poured gasoline over me and lit a match. I stopped taking the Prozac.

I went to several kinds of specialists before being diagnosed with lupus. I was told I had to take prednisone 7.5mg and if I didn’t take that steroid, I would die. The steroid immediately made me paranoid and insomniac. So they gave me a tranquilizer, Tranxene. Everything calmed down for one year. No one in that year gave me vocational therapy, which is what I needed.

At the end of the year of forcing the steroid into me with a tranquilizer, the tranquilizer began to wear off. I stopped sleeping altogether. No one told me you shouldn’t stop such a drug suddenly, so I stopped taking it because it no longer worked. This put my brain into a black hole of despair and suicidal ideation. I didn’t know that all I had to do was go back on the Tranxene and taper it down slowly.

Afraid of the black hole, not yet aware that doctors were hurting me, I ran to the Daddy and Mommy Doctors at the mental hospital; the psych ward. They treated me as a drug addict and insisted I attend 12 Step meetings. They slowly reduced the tranquilizer but kept giving me the prednisone. The head psychiatrist said that 7.5mg of prednisone couldn’t possibly be hurting me. I wonder, where were the rheumatologist’s records of what had transpired?

On the steroid, I never slept. When I told them I wasn’t sleeping they didn’t believe me. I did not sleep for the two years I was at the psych ward. I was told that I slept and didn’t know it. I was told that I was an adrenaline junkie. I was told that I was faking lupus. I was told that I didn’t care about my kids. I was told I would end up in the state hospital. I was told they would send me to an old folk’s home.

They sent me for an MRI. I was already overwhelmed by sound. When I got back to my room I felt ready to sleep but it was impossible with all the noise and a door that could not be locked. Staff came in and told me that I should be grateful for modern technology. There was no quiet place to escape to.

I raced up and down the halls each day, ruining my legs. To this day my legs are compromised. All night I lay in bed listening to the endless noises in the psych unit. They made no effort to make it quiet because they were drugging everyone except me for some reason. I could hear the female staff’s high heels on the hard floors all night. Phones rang all night. Early in the morning it finally got quieter and I felt I might sleep, but then it was time for the whole circus routine to start over again. The night is very long. I began picking at my skin and hair all night. Scarification became my new hobby. I was conditioned not to sleep.

The US Army lists sleep deprivation as a form of torture.

I escaped from this private institution about six times. The last time I escaped — and it takes a lot of courage to pump yourself up for escape — the CEO of the hospital came to me. He was a massive man in a three-piece suit with loads of gold accessories. He said that I did not appreciate what they were trying to do for me and I would no longer be accepted there. I thought, “Allah Be Praised!” because my family members kept dragging me back there kicking and screaming.

I then went to a dermatologist because the lupus also caused skin rashes. I told the dermatologist everything and he switched me to Plaquenil, taking me off the prednisone. I tried to stay home but I was conditioned not to sleep. I got Baker Acted several times. I was taken to another mental health facility, a county facility.

This was a better place. They made the whole place QUIET at night. Yet I was very freaked out about being in yet another such place. Another patient took pity on me and climbed into bed with me. We slept like two blessed twins.

However, it was not a place compatible with my background. There were some very hungry grandmas and grandpas in the geriatric unit. They begged me for my food, so I gave it to them. In the yoga community, we feed everyone for free. So after I gave my food to them, I was quite upset that I had none for myself. The staff belittled me for doing this.

The nurse practitioner in charge there believed me when I told him I never slept at the other hospital. He didn’t treat me like I was an idiot. The other hospital had convened a meeting wherein they declared me incompetent. They said I had a continuously debilitating mental disease. But at this hospital the nurse practitioner listened to me. I had been doing inner child work before all these hospitalizations. They basically were dealing with a child — I had no adult persona at the time.

The first hospital had a psychiatrist who told me I had a defective personality. But the nurse practitioner at the second hospital told me I had to go out into the world and figure out what was wrong with me — that only I could do this. He believed I could do it.

From there I was sent to a group home. (My children had been shipped to Tennessee to live with their father. Losing my children is something I still can’t emotionally touch on without crying; sobbing, really.) I was told that the group home was by the ocean and I could meditate there in peace. It was, in fact, in the ghetto and a complete nightmare unto itself. I could not sleep there either, in a room full of people making noises.

My mother showed up and literally rescued me. She had been visiting at the hospitals all along and did apologize to me for the way she raised me, which may have led to all these troubles. For a short while I stayed in a rented room in a private house with two other women who had mental problems. I cooked for everyone there and even the anorexic girl ate my chicken soup.

Then my mother moved me into my own apartment. I found a place near an SLAA weekly meeting that I felt I needed to take seriously, like a college course. Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous taught me a great deal about my programming. AA is a beginner’s course compared to SLAA. I earned my three year medallion.

I met a man who had several years sobriety in AA before he came to SLAA. You are not supposed to date anyone in the program. But we became friends. We weren’t having sex like rabbits. We were trying to figure out how to approach one another properly. We did end up moving in together as a one year contract, to see if our programming was too severe to overcome. We did Transactional Analysis, read co-dependency books and worked very hard at undoing the patterns and achieving a degree of awareness.

Photo by Frances Dale
Photo by Frances Dale

Around the time I met this man, I was doing photography. My ex husband sent me my Olympus OM1 35mm camera and my mother gave me $150 for used black and white darkroom equipment. I had been taking pictures since I was 16. When I came home after running away, my adult cousin told my mother to stop hitting me. Instead, she bought me a camera; a Minolta. She knew photography would help me. I used the kind of paper that can be colored by hand, and I used Prismacolor pencils and spread the color on the image with a Q-tip dipped in linseed oil and turpentine.

I photographed predominantly at the Morikami Japanese Gardens and downtown Delray Beach, Florida. I found Buddha statues to photograph and colorize and I began to feel that I was no longer destroyed. The Buddha nature is never destroyed. I wrote a poem about the Buddha nature, inspired by tapes of Alan Watts. And I spent some time in the company of a couple of Tibetan Buddhist monks. The only time I slept was a day I spent with them.

When I first met the man at SLAA, I was not sleeping. I was doing the photography but I was not able to sleep. I started to write a little children’s style book. I bought very large sheets of paper and drew boxes. I have no talent for drawing, so I wrote in words the kind of animal that I wanted in the box. I put down what the animal was doing and saying. It was the whole account of what had happened to me in the psych ward. And as I filled up the boxes I started to realize I needed help with this project.

I regressed during this process and would become terrorized all over again as if the events were current. So I put it aside for a few years. One day I found an old friend from high school on Facebook. We started exchanging information to catch up on each other’s lives. I sent him some short stories as I had taken a short story writing course and had written some stories about my past. I did this because the therapists were all useless and about as deep as a pothole. I changed all the people in my life into new characters. My friend is a Library Specialist, so he loved my stories. Then I told him about the one I never finished: Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych Ward. He got all excited and said I MUST finish it.

Little Porcupine Goes to the Psych WardSo I did what he said. It was difficult at first to write. I didn’t want to get lost in the old memories of the psych ward. If someone, such as a psychiatrist, merely suggests I could go to such a place again, I become very agitated for a whole day. I’d truly rather die. But he encouraged me to finish what I’d started. He told me it is a graphic novel. And then he insisted I get an illustrator.

I found a young man with schizophrenia at a local drop-in art center for the mentally ill. He was a childlike young man with great skill at drawing. He was perfect for a childlike book. We worked on the book for a year but he was running out of steam. So I had to pay him for what he had done and find another illustrator to help finish the book.

Then I tried to find a literary agent, to no avail. I settled on self-publishing and am very gratified with the process of becoming unafraid of what happened. I am also very gratified that all my friends and family can now understand what happened to me — because I could never tell anyone in words, to their face. And it really is nice to read positive reviews from ‘strangers’ who have actually bought my book.

Obviously, I did learn to sleep again despite being hypersensitive to noises and being unable to sleep without my husband nearby. Little Porcupine learned to sleep with the security of Jack Rabbit being in the house. I turned all the people from the psych ward into animals for the Little Porcupine story. I can recall distinctly that I only doubted the project on two separate days. The rest of the time I was certain I’d succeed at finishing the book.

I have this silly idea that I want to take the book on the Dr. Phil Show and tell my story. But he doesn’t want to reveal the dark side of psychiatry. They gave me an endless stream of different drugs at that hospital where I didn’t sleep. And after I was released from the second place, I was still married to psychiatry! The nice nurse practitioner put me back on lithium.

The lithium affected my thyroid and I became very tired all the time. The outpatient shrinks said I was depressed because I’m bipolar. Two years went by before a family doctor finally said it was my thyroid. He gave me thyroid pills and I was better immediately. It had gotten to the point where I was crying all the time. And the doctors kept saying it was manic depression.

I became a fat moo cow on lithium. So I switched to Depakote. All my muscles hurt on this drug and the brilliant doctors said it was fibromyalgia. I took malic acid and that helped about 50%. But I kept the Depakote because I had lost 30 pounds and Little Porcupine wanted to stay thin for Jack Rabbit.

When I quit the Depakote, the fibromyalgia was gone in a week but I made the same mistake of doing it all at once. Suddenly, I was back in the land of high anxiety and total insomnia! And the doctors all scrambled to ‘fix’ me with More Drugs. They gave me every sleeping pill known to man. The drugs that I’m on now are drugs that were given to subdue the effects of other drugs that were given, and this all goes back to the original drug that caused lupus; all drugs since being an attempt to fix the effects of the prior drug. In that case, the practice of psychiatry has simply created a customer for psych meds.

They gave me lithium, AGAIN, because I must be on something as I’m bipolar. After a few years, the lithium made my GI tract very sick indeed. So my latest shrink, who is a truly nice guy, BELIEVED me when I said it’s the lithium making me sick. A gastroenterologist concurred. And we tapered down slowly, like Dr. Peter Breggin says to in his book, from 600mg step-by-step down to 450mg. The severe GI problem is gone. So now the doctor is very concerned that I stay on the 450mg despite it being way below the therapeutic level they are always talking about.

Currently I am slowly withdrawing the Buspar, which they gave me years ago thinking it would counteract the steroid. It did not. Plus, I am now on 2mg of Navane because when I quit the Depakote they gave me so many kinds of sleeping agents I became a bit crazy. The Navane is the pill they gave me to undo the damage from all the sleeping pills. The psychiatrist at the time said I could quit taking the Navane after a few weeks but we discovered that it altered my perception of pain; it helped with my sciatica. So he said to keep taking it.

I have recently gone to a medical marijuana doctor and applied for CBD cannabis oil. If it helps with the double sciatica, it is possible to consider stopping the Navane. But my entire sleep cycle is controlled by the Navane.

I am new to the notions of anti psychiatry. I was introduced to this thinking by a smart man I met on and Mad in America is another new step for me. I see articles written here by people with PhD’s and some are written so cleverly I cannot comprehend them. But I know these people are sincere and know what they are talking about.

I do not know if I am brave enough to face voluntary insomnia to become FREE of the iron grip of psychiatry. I know that every time people try to prove to me that my bipolar is genetic, I only see environmental factors. I know that instead of reaching my social potential, I have spent thirty years taking drugs and dealing with drug side effects. I am told I have small hypomanic spells, but I only see that I push myself past the sedation just to go for a long walk and then I lose some sleep. I never had troubles with sleep until I met a psychiatrist. They think they’re in charge of sleep.

Parallel to this, I have learned that time itself may not be what we think it is. And in this kind of time the whole misadventure of my life was prearranged; it exists simultaneously with all other events of time. Why the Consciousness That Is Everything wanted me to suffer this indignity, I cannot know from this level. Perhaps in the Astral, I will have my answers.

Thanks for reading.


Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.


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  1. We are sorry to hear from your suffering at the hands of psychiatry.
    But God or any other benevolent spirit or Karma or Faith) has nothing to do with that.
    Some spirit guides can be very malevolent, especially western ones.
    I have one that makes excruciating headaches when no Ibuprofen is in the house.
    I can project my thoughts against it but then the pain wanders around.
    This can go on for a whole night or until it can take some Ibuprofen.
    Especially your lupus, anxiety and insomnia (etc.) might be psychosomatic/psychogenic.
    They might not even damage your body at all.
    I have voluntarily not slept for 7 days and found no ill effect of it, for example.
    Once they gave me (if i remember correctly 16mg of haloperidol per day) and nobody could see the difference.
    My guess is, that a dead soul didnt like your affiliation with indian culture.
    Unfortunately i am no shaman that can show the spirit world, i only can use words to an unknown avail.
    Believe in the afterlife and their powers, apparently your inner enemy likes action, so keep up the good work and best wishes. 🙂

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  2. You have come a long way on a difficult road. I hope you give yourself credit for this! Even being able to process as much as you were able with all those medications – the body and mind are amazing in their drive and will to survive.

    I have found some natural things that help me sleep – you have most likely exhausted all these different resources, but want to mention them just in case: magnesium, gaba, b6, and b3 (niacin the kind that causes flushing), passion flower. Gaba works better for some than others. Also, progesterone cream helps me sleep also.

    You have a gifted way of communicating very complicated things in a simple way. We need this.

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    • Thank you for the sleep aid suggestions. 🙂 As I wrote in the personal story, ” I did learn to sleep again despite being hypersensitive to noises and being unable to sleep without my husband nearby. Little Porcupine learned to sleep with the security of Jack Rabbit being in the house. ” In my graphic novel, there is more detail on how I learned to sleep. And thank you for appreciating simplicity in communication. Simplicity and Innocence are not prized by Western culture.

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  3. An abusive childhood followed by an abusive marriage followed by an abusive psychiatric system, which was only an offshoot of the abusive family. Nobody, I repeat NOBODY, could live under that and remain healthy. POWs get treated better than Frances did. Like most of us on MIA, she was deprived of the most basic tools for survival – love, freedom, honesty, SLEEP – and then pathologized when she could not function without them. Had Frances been left to her own devices as a young woman, she would not have faced ANY trouble that matched or exceeded the hell of psychiatry. Frances, this was an excellent article. YOU are clever too, and I’m thrilled that you’re loosening psychiatry’s death-grip on your life.

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    • Hi there, J. It was nice to wake up to your comment this morning. Your mention of POWs getting better treatment than I did was perfect because when Little Porcupine met Jack Rabbit, they took baths together in a Roman tub and she told him about the psych ward and he told her about Vietnam. He said that the psych ward was just like a POW camp. That’s in my little graphic novel.

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  4. hi, frances. keep on reading the good stuff here on MIA – follow peter breggin, philip hickey and all the other amazing truthtellers.
    you will NEVER have peace until you are off all psychotropic drugs, and out of the grips of the entire psych system.
    you certainly have a challenging background, but so does everybody. to be human is to have a story, a challenge, a weakness, a fight that is unique to you.
    one tool in my family’s healing ( 10, 12 years in the system, 2 plus years off all drugs, owning our minds again) is this: every time you want to say ” i can’t” replace it with ” i choose not”. the whole picture changes, and you will see the power is inside of you to live as you wish, to make changes, to live without labels and drugs and without limits.
    keep fighting, keep putting distance between you and the entire psych system. you can and will heal and will love owning your mind again. there’s nothing “wrong” with you- you are on the spectrum of humanity, with the rest of us.

    blessings, all the best,


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      • I have peace and sometimes serenity in my life, with the psychiatric meds I am on. I am not attached to whether or not I will be able to stop taking them. I am in a process of reduction now but it remains to be seen how far it will go. I am not attached to the outcome. I am not trying to force a specific philosophy. I just report the facts.

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        • I’m glad you no longer need as many, Frances. Even if you are willing and able to function without drugs (some lose the ability over many years) going off cold turkey is a bad idea! Took me almost 3 years and I feel like I have FM anyhow. (Some of the symptoms surfaced when I took the whole cocktail. Going lower/off made them worse though.)

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  5. Hi Frances, Sounds like the Prednisone may have done serious damage to you sleep-wise. I would stay on the drugs rather than not sleep. Stay on the lowest dose if you have to. If you have very bad damage sometime that’s the only thing that’ll get you to sleep. Not sleeping is very damaging to the body, more damaging that a tiny dose of pills. Take a subclinical dose. Or try, just enough to knock yourself out. You were on drugs a very long time, unlike these younger folks who can get off completely. Never mind not sleeping makes you grumpy, you drop stuff, you get lost, and you lose all your stuff and driving isn’t safe.

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    • Hi Julie Greene. You’re right, I never drive when I haven’t slept. I did switch off Prednisone to Plaquenil long ago and then one day the Lupus was gone. Now I take a tiny dose of Navane which controls my sleep cycle. I am in no great hurry to delete it due to some philosophical reasoning. Volunteering for insomnia is not something I would do at this point. I think it would take a couple years to get off the Navane. I don’t think the lithium I’m on would be as much of a problem as the Navane to withdraw. Thanks for the advice to stay on the low dose of meds rather than not sleep.

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  6. The hospitals and doctors do not get sued by psych patients for harming them. Therefore, the hospitals and doctors do not experience any negative consequences for their actions. If people sued them, and often, perhaps we’d begin to see some changes in the treatment of people; changes to a more humane treatment.

    Where are all the other patients who developed Lupus from Prozac ?? Was there a class action suit that I did not know about ??

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  7. Frances almost everyone who develops “Fibro” took pharma drugs, usually antidepressants, prior to the Fibro. I wish I recalled the statistics.

    Just about everyone who takes Lithium loses their thyroid, many lose significant kidney functioning. It’s a so-called “tradeoff” since so-called MI are considered lesser value humans. We’re just throwaways, not worth it.


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    • It certainly is! 🙂 I used the idea of Fibro to keep my mom off my back when I spent a year isolated in a single wide with my parents. That, or stay in the “Mental Health” Center and keep going to Day Treatment. Mom still thinks I’m “meds compliant” and wonders why I’m no longer depressed and have been losing weight. Lol.

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  8. My sleep was deteriorating and my ability to deal with insomnia has been eroded with time. The pdoc gave me ativan for emergencies only. My definition of emergency widened each week. I only took five pills in two months but they caused even more insomnia. Finally, the pdoc said to take an extra navane. 1 mg

    So I succeeded at lowering the other meds but now have increased another. No one suggested adding a lithium orotate pill to the lithium carbonate. I can’t get on with my life playing with pills.

    I have no commitment to freeing myself from this unhappy marriage to psychiatry; til death do us part.
    I just want to sleep.

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    • Frances I have been trying for years to gather support here and elsewhere for a group action against doctors who drug people irresponsibly with massive doses of sedating drugs causing permanent (or apparently so) inability to initiate or sustain the sleep state. I am in that position also. I am not asking for an action regarding a specific drug, but action against irresponsible overdrugging. Unfortunately, people affected by this have been too exhausted to agree to commit to anything and any effort on my part has run into a brick wall. This has gone on and on for years.

      Some, in attempt to avoid more doctor appointments, have resorted to street drugs. I am tempted to commend these folks. Home remedies are many and varied. I am amazed at the number of remedies coming out of aryurveda. Lithium Ororate can be obtained without a prescription as can many remedies. Some people swear by it. That one I have yet to try. I personally would recommend trying ANYTHING out there within the realm of common sense.Think about it…Do we actually know anyone who has been harmed by vitamins, fresh air, education,and common sense? But we know many harmed by pharma and medical “care.”

      Many times doctors prescribe outside of the realm of common sense. The so-called “trade-off” wasn’t logical at all. was it?

      “You feel okay now, but you’ll die 25 years younger, who cares? You don’t work and you’re a burden to society.” Some tradeoff. That’s literally what we were told, the rationale.

      Frances will you join me in ending irresponsible drugging?

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  9. Dear Julie Greene,
    Thanks so much for your reply. How do I help you stop irresponsible drugging ?? If it involves a computer, I can do it.

    Yes, once a doctor said to me that I will have a few good years on lithium and then my kidneys will be shot. She actually said that to me.

    I am saddened to learn that you too have sleeping problems.

    I was sleeping until I lowered the lithium carbonate. It was causing severe GI distress. Perhaps I already mentioned this in this thread. Tonight I will put back lithium but in orotate form.

    I am going to talk with my psychiatrist in three hours.

    I can’t count the number of days that have been wasted due to pill side effects. I have no psychological issues as I’ve completed my “homework”. Instead of being free to connect spiritually with my day, I have to deal with drug affecting my clarity. Sedation does not appear to be a good long term solution.

    I wish you the best and am happy to talk to you on here.

    ps I had a girlfriend whose doctor gave her ambien for sleep because she had horrible nightmares on her own. She’d had a brain tumor removed and it left her having nightmares. Surely the ambien will not work forever ?? I wondered what alternatives there could have been for her.

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  10. Hi Frances, You asked about Lithium Orotate, I have been looking around. As far as I can tell, the mainstream research has little to verify one way or another about this stuff but that doesn’t mean it isn’t of value. I mean, it’s one of those products that cannot be patented so…..Apparently there have been very few documented cases of actual deaths due to overdoses, and these were probably deliberately done. Keep in mind that children have overdosed on Total Cereal, iron pills, and chewable vitamins. I see conflicts over who can, and who cannot take LO. My guess is that it’s dose-dependent. My guess is that there’s a small amount of lithium in some of the water supply out there in some locales, and we don’t even know about it. I can see that some people had trouble with it who perhaps overdid it, that is, used too high a dose. They then had a negative reaction and either quit using it, or lowered the dose and then found it more useful. I didn’t read of any ER trips or horror stories from the orotate. I did read of people’s horror stories with Pharma prior to trying lithium orotate and much relief upon switching to what is in fact less “toxic.” I noted the number of people who tried LO and found it useful for trauma. People reported fewer anger outbursts and many stated they had improved sleep. Some said they felt more motivated almost immediately or within days. No one reported anything I recall from my days on lithium carbonate, such as vomiting, pimples, weight gain, the shakes, etc. Many said they wished they’d known about it sooner.

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  11. Hi Julie. I do not receive a notification in my email when someone posts on MIA in my thread. So I’m sorry to be getting back to you so late. Thanks for the info on lithium orotate. Wanna hear something funny ?? I cut down my lithium carbonate over six months ago due to GI distress. We did it 10% per each 2-3 months. Like Peter Breggin says. Okay, so last month I start to have insomnia. So the doctor and I decide to put back an amount of lithium orotate to bring me back up to 600mg total; orotate and carbonate combined. So now I am starting to sleep better ten days into the “experiment”. And guess what !! The GI problem is back. The literature said it has no side effects like carbonate. Ha !!

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  12. no no no! Frances that is waaaaay too much. With the Orotate you take very little! Not the euivalent of the toxic Carbonate. I tried it myself I got the size of tablets that are the lowest dose, which will give you roughly 5 mgs Elemental Lithium. I started with 1/2 pill, gradually went up. No more than two, that is 10 mg of Elemental Lithium (the rest of the mg is the Orotate, a B Vitamin).If you have the 10 size, only one pill at most, or two 5 pills. No more! Less is better and you will still notice better sleep. I also take magnesium and potassium along with this. It is very helpful but must take a low dose or you get toxic, you don’t want that. Go read up on it.

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  13. Yes, less is more in this case. 30mg of orotate is equal to 600mg carbonate. That’s what I read. That’s how we figured it. So I’m only taking 10mg of the orotate with the leftover carbonate. I am sleeping again which is nice but sad that it’s dependent on drugs. The doctor has ordered a blood test to check on our “experiment”. I have to wait a bit on the test as I cannot travel with my bad leg just yet.

    During the recent time period when I had the insomnia real bad, I wanted to go through an arts festival and walked for hours. I am not suppose to do this with my legs being the way they are. But I was in the mood to pretend I was young again in spite of not sleeping. So the lithium does help me to not overdo it.

    I am very curious to see what the lithium level will be.

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