Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Comments by Julie Greene, MFA

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  • No, the therapist didn’t commit suicide. A Lanza did. Just another screwup I did due to not being able to see the computer screen, and I deeply apologize for that.

    The therapist fled the country knowing he was guilty of abusing Adam, and he knew he was the perp. That I know of, there was no publicity over this. Adam (and his family that raised him) was seen, and still IS seen, as a subhuman monster. He was an innocent kid who was horribly abused by a therapist. Period. Newtown was the consequence of therapy abuse. The person kills him/herrself, and sometimes, takes others, too. I’m lucky because I got over the trauma without doing something like that.

    There’s a cool blogger named Cathy Eck who talks about Black Sheeping. Read her entry (sorry I don’t have a link.) She claims to have insight into school shooters. The entry does show a lot of clarity into what it feels like to have no friends, to be totally disenfranchised, and to be feared by others for completely arbitrary reasons. It was like that for me in 2012. I’m lucky I got through it.

    (NOTE: I no longer feel that way. I’m way way past that now.)

  • Oldhead, were you ever harmed by a therapist? I know a few who committed suicide because of therapy. Actually most I knew who killed themselves successfully did so due to the harms of therapy.

    I was harmed by a therapist, too. I had a narcissistic one. And one decades ago who was antisemitic. One who made sexual advances toward me. These things are done in privacy, with no witnesses, and almost always, the patient has no recourse and is simply called delusional.

  • Bradford, when a person commits suicide I first ask if there was a therapist. Often the therapist drove the person to suicide without even knowing it. Therapy sustains the disease state, upholds it, and nurtures it,keeping the person sick. Poor Matt never stopped therapy, and if you read his eloquent blogs on so-called BPD, he seems to worship that therapist just a bit too much. It is a classic sign of abuse. He sees her as his savior, that God on High. I tried very hard to confront him on this, to get him to see that maybe he should consider becoming independent of her, but no way would he hear me out. I have just done a radio show on this sort of abuse as I myself was subject to it in 2011, in Boston. The initial signs are worship of the therapist. Adam Lanza was abused by his therapist also, and the therapist fled the country after Adam did the Newtown shooting and killed himself. So sad that this is overlooked. Drugs are not the only problem with the mental system!!!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/26/abusive-therapists

    Abusive therapists are not all that rare, either. Matt and I argued over this, and he actually said I was psychotic to call my therapist abusive. I don’t think so. My name has been cleared.

  • I am saddened to hear this. I always felt that Matt had been swept away too much by the fake BPD diagnosis, and yet at the same time, he claimed to have shaken it off. He tended to be arrogant in my eyes, I didn’t write to him much. I was saddened that he still clung to his therapist and was still very much addicted to the process, and held “the therapeutic alliance” in such reverence. I tried to tell him that therapy is invariably a false construct, a power structure that exists solely to degrade the patient and keep him disabled and needy. I felt the need to stop my involvement with the ISEPP mailing list (“therapy is good and drugs are bad” bullshit) and pretty much didn’t hear from Matt anymore. I know he kept his activism and his personal life separate, which is notably admirable. I recall he used a pen name for a while.

    No suicide is done alone. There is always a perp. Sadly, almost always, these things are shrugged off as “mental illness” and the perp walks without a scratch.

  • I have overheard the following microagressions stated about myself. “Patient claims she does not smoke.” This is biased since it is OBVIOUS I don’t smoke. I would stink of it if I did. I conclude that the nurses smoke. That’s why they cannot distinguish who smokes and who doesn’t.

    “Minor chest pains.” Fellow patient had depression diagnosis and was a frequent flier. They didn’t even check her vitals and they sent her home, telling her to call her therapist. She had a heart attack. She lived.

  • Yeah, Fiaschra, I hope I spelled that right. For decades, pacing, in my case, was considered a “symptom of mania.” I was never manic! Every single time I paced they called it mania and gave me mania drugs. but I was never manic! The pacing ended completely when I stopped the drugs. So…did that “cure” so-called mania? Hmmm….. I am mostly saddened that this want on and on for DECADES.

  • I think Slaying needs to keep this other topic off this page, (), for the sake of not going “off topic.” After all, the mods cut out any comment they want based on claims of “off topic” or even claims that you’re “self-promoting.” Anything to get comments off the page they don’t want.

    Really a lot of the blogs here are themselves for purpose of self-promotion, ahem scammy Brogan, as example, and various promotions of “alternative treatment centers….” (Treatment for WHAT DISORDERS?) We’re observing the mods are getting out of control these days.

  • Dr. Breggin, can we get you and Michelle on my radio station sometime? Or…Would the DA object? How can I contact Michelle? Even when I read the original story my heart cried out for her, even though my facebook friends called her a monster. I really knew all along she was not to blame.I was called a monster too in my lifetime. I have written (and broadcasted) extensively on the subject already. Please contact me. You can get in touch via [email protected] I really want to help out.

  • Lawrence, Please email me about this “disability incentive” at [email protected]. I would like to interview you on my radio show since you have knowledge of this….

    i happen to recall my first “disabilty” interview. And I also recall telling the rehab where I ended up that I had an eating disorder, which was then disregarded. The only way they could hastily get me onto disabiliy was to outright LIE and say I had schizophrenia. They knew I did not. Oddly, when I left the rehab I told them my ED had improved, and the director said, “What ED? I never knew you had one.”
    After the schiz diagnosis, my psychiatrist insisted I heard voices. I was cornered into inventing what the voices told me, for years after that, since he kept asking! I studied books on schiz to learn what voices were all about (Torrey…) and studied my fellow patients who were capable of hearing them, but I was a poor faker. It took them 30 years to figure out I had an eating disorder! How loudly could I scream it! Then, they recorded that I had “just developed” it in my 50’s just to cover their hides. How badly could they LIE……

    Please get in touch, I’m in the business of bashing psychiatry…..I figure after all these years and all the damages, it’s ABOUT TIME.

  • Regarding the photo of the Haldol mug. I STOLE one from a psych ward and kept it many years. It didn’t look like that mug, though. It looked more like a standard diner mug. It had a crack in it, I recall, never quite looked clean. Held about ten ounces of coffee maybe.

    I stole the mug during my first, or perhaps my third hospitalization/imprisonment in Putnam Memorial Hospital in 1983. Undoubtedly the nurses knew I stole it. I was on the fifth floor, end of the hall where the psych ward was. It’s now called Southwestern Vermont Medical Center. Guess they wanted something more generic. They did away with the psych ward, too. that I know of. I no longer own the mug. I tossed it. I had some pens, too, guess like everyone did.

    I suppose this was off topic but I saw that Haldol mug and it brought back memories.

    Someone I know drugged their kid……..who had a developmental delay or something…..terrible. For a behavior “control” thing.

  • My naturopath is right about a lot of stuff. I have a good relationship with him. If I disagree I tell him so and we discuss things openly. He says cayenne will stop bleeding, so I tried it one day and YES if you mix a spoonful of the spice in water, drink that, it’ll stop a nosebleed far sooner than it normally would stop. I like him because we joke around a lot, and he hates psychiatry. I love to share a few anti-psych jokes with him.

    I have a good relationship with the ladies who work in the health food store. I stop by all the time. They ask me how the radio show is going and I tell them it’s going very well. Not one of these folks is a doctor. I’m glad. I never ever see one. I guess I’m saving taxpayers an awful lot of money.

    I got a job. In a while I’ll be off “disability.” Years ago those shrinks claimed I was incapable. Oh, someone else round here said I was “creepy.” Good thing no one else said that.

  • Dee From what I can tell, most of the medical device industry is full of scams and shoddy research. I keep researching how much “sleep apnea” has increased, is surely overdiagnosed (umbrella widened as to what defines “apnea”) and these devices pushed on people who very well may have other sleep problems. This seems to have happened to a friend of mine, sadly.

    Another imminent for me is kidney dialysis. Since it’s expensive (via “insurance”) and most are on medicare, they actually let you refuse.. Normally you die, IF you follow doctor’s message of “no hope.” My plan is to refuse, of course. No scam machine for me. I think they are hiding something from the public, if you read their slick literature about how “great” dialysis is!!! Really? Just like ECT was great….. If I do natural medicine, and stay far away from doctors and hospitals, they’ll never notice I’m in end stage renal. Nor will I. I feel fine.

  • Svava, Thanks for the enlightening story, although it’s sad to see how badly they treated you! In my opinion perhaps because you were an athlete somehow you were over-producing lactic acid which comes from your muscles during exercise. This has to be excreted by the body, but sometimes your body can’t catch up. So there’s too much produced, but it’s not excreted fast enough, so the lactic acid produces the panic attack. And that’ it! IT’s not emotional, but it is so scary to have those attacks, that it starts to become associated with scary events and places…….. Usually a person changes lifestyle and that will get rid of the panic attacks. Which might mean finding nice people, better friends, quiet spaces, relaxing times, reading, etc. Sometimes less coffee, too, or less alcohol.

    Certainly not getting oneself imprisoned and taking dangerous drugs without informed consent. Geez you were snowed with them. That is terrible you were given all those.

    Julie

  • I won’t be taking any MIA continuing Ed classes until I see survivor-taught classes. I am sooooo tired of the assumption that MH professionals are the experts. I offered to teach a madness memoir class and that was turned down. I asked about someone (a mathematician, hopefully a survivor) teaching a statistics class, or rather, on how to interpret statistics in “studies.”…I have not received a response on that. I have NO interest in taking a class that assumes these MH “professionals” who have the audacity to claim they know better.

  • I have been cyberbullied as a semi-senior (over 55, under 65). I learned that there was nothing under law that I could do about it, since I am not a minor nor a college student. I know that the person/people were likely hired. I suspect they were trying to induce emotional distress, possibly suicide. They did not succeed, not even close. The bullying stopped abruptly and I never discovered the source. I have since found out that I am not alone, that other fully grown adults (often, writers like myself) have had this happen and there’s little recourse. I also suspect the intent, in the case of other bullying incidents, was to induce a suicide or induce an attempt. If it is any comfort, MLK had the same thing happen. They tried it on him, too.

    Julie

  • Hi Everyone, I’m surprised there are so few comments here, but….given that the mods have been having their heyday censoring lately, well….

    Anyway, I am re-broadcasting the show I did dedicated to Michelle Carter, This is very relevant and I hope you guys have a listen. It will broadcast via telephone Sunday at 1:30PM you can listen at 323-443-7210, if you don’t have web access, or, if you wish, access on the web at….
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/10/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    I really put a lot of effort into this so I hope ya’lls come down and have a listen. The station is growing strong and gaining ground. If anyone wants to come on the show as guest, kindly get in touch. Julie

  • Might I also add the following: She was two weeks out of “treatment” for her eating disorder.. ED “treatment consists of force, force, force, force-feeding, forced weight gain, bathroom privacy invasion, privacy invasions ten times worse than in regular psychiatry, isolation ten times worse, and brainwashing. They use scare tactics using a Devil-like make-believe character named Ed, acronym for Eating Disorder. The force-feeding causes rapid weight gain, horribly traumatic to a person with anorexia. You leave those places feeling like you have a body not your own. You leave feeling horribly violated. Even if you were not tube-fed, they typically stare you down while you eat, this being terribly frightening to a person with ED. I can’t believe she wasn’t totally shaken during those weeks following her McLean stay, unable to concentrate, with very low self-esteem, most likely suicidal herself as well. These ED treatment centers destroy young people’s lives.

  • Anyone out there interested in talking on this topic I’m having a radio show this evening starting at 6:30 going for ONE HOUR ONLY. Topic: Leadership and the Psychiatric Survivor Movement: Where do we go from here?

    Here is the blurb:

    Call in to speak with the host

    (323) 443-7210

    This is a ONE HOUR call-in show. Who shall lead us now that the Movement has gotten so large? Who is best qualified? Why is it important not to rely on “providers” to take up these roles any longer? Who shall speak out as authority? Who shall be the decision-makers? Where shall the hub of our leadership be located? These and other questions will be explored tonight.

    Feel free to call in!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/07/leadership-and-the-psychiatric-survivor-movement-where-do-we-go-from-here

    Julie

  • Anyone out there interested in talking on this topic I’m having a radio show this evening starting at 6:30 going for ONE HOUR ONLY. Topic: Leadership and the Psychiatric Survivor Movement: Where do we go from here?

    Here is the blurb:

    Call in to speak with the host

    (323) 443-7210

    This is a ONE HOUR call-in show. Who shall lead us now that the Movement has gotten so large? Who is best qualified? Why is it important not to rely on “providers” to take up these roles any longer? Who shall speak out as authority? Who shall be the decision-makers? Where shall the hub of our leadership be located? These and other questions will be explored tonight.

    Feel free to call in!
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/09/07/leadership-and-the-psychiatric-survivor-movement-where-do-we-go-from-here

    Julie

  • Ivy if you want to come on the radio and tell your story, I have a radio show and I can have guests come on. Part of the purpose of the show is to EXPOSE PSYCHIATRIC abuse such as this. I am looking for folks willing to share stories we don’t hear often, stories we don’t see in the papers, stories that are routinely not allowed in most public settings, stories by people who are persecuted for telling the truth about what happens in such places.

    As long as you feel okay doing so and you feel you’ll be safe from retaliation, I’d love to have you on.

    Julie

    my show is at blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger and I’m on all the time blasting away psych!

    my blog is at juliemadblogger.com you can contact me there.

  • Apologies to Dr. K. Due to being lied to about the drugs for years, I stayed on them, thinking they weren’t harming me. Well that’s most likely why I don’t see well now, and why I really had no clue what type K he was. Yes people mess up my last name, too.

    My radio show is on right now not at a regular time, but whenever Blog Talk Radio has slots and whenever I have the time. I try to do radio often. I have a show on Michelle Carter also. It’s fairly lengthy and involved, a response to Breggin’s post that I feel will be helpful to the defense and I hope they find my broadcast.

    I would suggest subscribing so you will be notified of shows. Some shows are pre-recorded and some are call-in (live). So if you subscribe Blog Talk Radio will notify you in your time zone. You can call in using a telephone. We are having guests on, too, and people have been calling in and there’s been a lot of enthusiasm. Here’s the URL:

    http://blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger

    Here is the URL to my blog.
    http://www.juliemadblogger.com

    Go to the sidebar and you’ll see my FDA testimony regarding electroshock. The document is rather detailed and involved. Never mind I think it’s most likely an entertaining and enjoyable read, and hits home. I should read excerpts from it on my show.

    Meanwhile I am working on putting back together a show that BTR messed up due to their error. I have to redo it, but that’s okay, I’m having fun.

  • I”m chipper because I ditched psychiatry and I have FUN every chance I get ratting on them on my radio station and in my blog….

    juliemadblogger.com
    blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger

    And we’re having some great guests coming up! Anyone who wants to be a guest on the show and BLAST AWAY PSYCHIATRY is welcome to be my guest. Dr. Kellerman (sp?), you seem to want to chime in with the rest of us, and I find your views fascinating, so you are welcome as a guest my show. Kindly contact me via my blog. Would love to continue the dialogue out loud.

  • “People choose their own paths.” True. However, what happens once you end up on the wrong path? You might be lost. You might be stuck on the wrong road for a long time and not have any options because your only options are to turn around or to turn off, and what if there are no turnoffs? You can only plough ahead. Or…bushwhack. You might take a very very long time to get back on the right road again. For just about everyone, it isn’t like you snap to it, and then, suddenly, you use the ruby slippers and then, wow, you’re back HOME. Nope, it’s not like that. You try Google maps which often gives you error messages. You ask for help and people either shrug, can’t help, or actually point you in the wrong direction. Are you sick of my pushing the metaphor too far? Well….

  • I would be interested in that paper you wrote on height. Only because I am short and I use my height as a joke when I do public speaking. Why am I short? I found out recently. I have scoliosis. No it doesn’t hurt. It is just there. So my whole family is an inch shorter than we should be. Oh at least. So…that explains it. Go figure. I always wanted to be taller…but it wasn’t in the cards and I’m fine with that.

    I am very happy to be short now that I am older,even though when I was a kid I got teased. No it doesn’t need “fixing.” I am totally convinced that being short is just plain more efficient. it is less expensive in the long haul. I should be charged half price.

  • A few? It’s the norm. Last time I saw the western medical people they ROLLED THEIR EYES at the thought of a 60-year-old woman being able to run. Yes, I run, and entire 5k in fact. Often on a treadmill these days, sometimes, on the street if the lighting is good. Shame on those “staff.” They are in the business of filling beds, not in the business of healing. Not these days.

  • Is pharma, and/or the doc/institution paying these courts big money to silence Dr. Breggin? Wouldn’t Michelle’s doc and the doc’s supervisor have vested interest in keeping Dr. Breggin (and us) silent on this matter? Where did she get these prescriptions? Where was she going for psych and/or counseling? Why are these people walking free? Who was Conrad Roy seeing, and why aren’t they held accountable? My guess is that these “professionals” have good reason to silence Breggin. And all of us. So let’s NOT BE SILENT ON THIS.

  • I’m not sure that ADHD specifically causes the opoid “epidemic.” It could be one cause.

    I think the way medicine is structured partially causes it. Doctors are reluctant to address the root cause of physical pain.

    For instance, consider this possibility: Say you have a headache. You are more likely to be told to take NSAIDs than to be told the cause of your headache. This especially if you are known to be a complainer. You very well could have mold in your home, or could have a carbon monoxide leak, or lead in your water. They will give you “prescription NSAIDs.” Then they’ll resort to painkillers.

    Then, opoids for your headache. You’re hooked….

    A year later, while you are away at opoid rehab and your kids are in foster care, your landlord is sued by another tenant in your building for dead batteries in the CO detector. Your doctor? He walks free. You are labeled an ADDICT for life.

  • Janet I recall that. I wanted to get “treatment” for my eating disorder in 1982. I didn’t get it so I got desperate. They were avoidant, claiming I was “faking it for attention.”

    So finally I showed up at the hospital ER early in 1983, hoping for actual help. My roommate was right. She had said, “If you show up at the ER, they HAVE to treat you.” Well, yes. They took me. But they failed to address my eating disorder…

    …for the next thirty years!!!!!

    Julie

  • okay but why do some get CFS and others do not? I lived in South America and I had a place filled with mold…I literally fled. It was sooooo gross! I didn’t get CFS. I was beyond disgusted, though, and concerned for my dog’s health. I knew people who got sick from mold there, quite ill. Why do some, and not others? Some got ill (respiratory, mostly) from mold after Katrina, others did not, children mostly….Why you? Did you get any explanation?

  • Stopping Freedom of Speech of those who speak out on behalf of human rights seems to be universal. I found this in my travels:
    https://chaoticpharmacology.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/against-the-board-of-registration-in-medicine-brm-american-society-and-addiction-medicine-asam-and-like-minded-doctors-lmd/

    Pretty much anyone who speaks out on behalf of the greater good, who blows the whistle on wrongdoing will be silenced, persecuted, exiled, called crazy, maimed, muted, discredited, threatened, gaslighted, bullied, pushed to suicide, imprisoned, drugged, or killed.

    Julie

  • Dear Recovered, I find my experience of “patients” is that they, too, stubbornly cling to the idea that “Doctor knows best.” Patients are lazy. They often staunchly refuse to do their own research. They refuse to claim autonomy and self-expertise, often deferring to the doctor over and over, even to the point of doc-shopping out of desperation for this “help” that doesn’t exist.

    Recovery, to me, meant realizing there was no help. There is no help except the immense strength we each have within ourselves.

    Julie Greene

  • Leah this is a very important post. My very first article I ever published in MIA I first pitched to a suicide survivors site. Sadly that site got taken over by the voices of “professionals” so they sure did not want my article. MIA did!

    I am going to be recommending this article in my radio show today, August 19, 2017. Tune in at noon. 323-443-7210 blog talk radio juliemadblogger show.

  • Antidepressants, for the most part, had little “effect” on me so when I was asked to take them I did what I could to get the doc to understand that these pills were unhelpful.

    Prozac never had any helpful “effect.” I never noticed any difference. Benzos never did anything that I noticed, not to me, however, taking one as PRN pleased the staff, so I would do so periodically in order to silence “them” and keep them from needling me. Taking a PRN made the staff happy. So it had an “effect” on them!

    Antipsychotics didn’t “affect” my psychosis since I was not psychotic nor did it lower my mania since I was not manic to begin with. These drugs caused pacing. The shrinks mistook pacing for mania for decades, so usually my dose of antipsychotics was raised to the max and these idiots still couldn’t figure out why I paced.

    Some drugs caused binge eating, which for me is the worst nightmare ever. I don’t expect people here at MIA to “get””this since eating disorders are generally dismissed here the same way mine was in psychiatry for decades. I’m pissed about this and I wish I could teach a class in eating disorders here just to enlighten you all.

    Effexor caused binge eating, so I had to stop the drug. Also, several other drugs caused binge eating, several of the antipsychotics and antidepressants, including Zyprexa, high doses of Seroquel, and some of the older antidepressants, Nortryptyline notably. I can’t say these would do the same to others.

    The whole time, my doctors were dismissive and even jeered at me every time I brought up the problem. The best thing I ever did was to get away from psychiatry and all of mental health, and start my life over.

  • I got rid of my TV over 20 years ago and have not watched it since. I developed a strong dislike for it, then a complete intolerance. I can’t believe people even sleep with the thing yapping away! I cannot tolerate much of radio, either. Computer is a good thing so long as I am typing. I cannot see the point in passively watchig youtubes. I credit “no TV’ as one reason why my mind is sharp, I have sharp hearing, am generally happy and am physically fit.

    Plus cable is a complete waste of hard-earned disability check, let’s face it. That’s ironic since the only reason I’m still on it is no one will hire me.

  • Then those of us in a position to take action (and are not too preoccupied with bitching and moaning) should take action NOW. How about a protest? Or organizing outside the DA’s office? BTW PLEASE listen to my Blog Talk Radio Broadcast http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story because it is RELEVANT and I would speak out in court on Michelle’s behalf on just how powerful these friendships are, it is like the person has a spell over you.

    Julie

  • Frances almost everyone who develops “Fibro” took pharma drugs, usually antidepressants, prior to the Fibro. I wish I recalled the statistics.

    Just about everyone who takes Lithium loses their thyroid, many lose significant kidney functioning. It’s a so-called “tradeoff” since so-called MI are considered lesser value humans. We’re just throwaways, not worth it.

    Julie

  • Hi Frances, Sounds like the Prednisone may have done serious damage to you sleep-wise. I would stay on the drugs rather than not sleep. Stay on the lowest dose if you have to. If you have very bad damage sometime that’s the only thing that’ll get you to sleep. Not sleeping is very damaging to the body, more damaging that a tiny dose of pills. Take a subclinical dose. Or try, just enough to knock yourself out. You were on drugs a very long time, unlike these younger folks who can get off completely. Never mind not sleeping makes you grumpy, you drop stuff, you get lost, and you lose all your stuff and driving isn’t safe.

  • Jolly Roger and anyone,

    I discourage bashing Dr. K simply because what I see here is bashing him because he has MD after his name. However, he is in support of the Movement and earnestly is here to help us out. Why do you put him down? I personally do not believe “all psychiatrists are evil.” I know some of you do. However, Dr. Breggin is not evil, right? Not all psychs are evil. They run on a continuum. I don’t think the statement “All psychs are evil” properly represents the thinking of mosts here, nor of most in the Movement. Most of us are capable of complex thinking. We don’t generalize nor make such broad and sweeping statements. Many of us would refuse, also, to “classify” humans as “good” or “evil.” Isn’t another “classification” completely against what we stand for? We don’t want more of a split society, that we saw on the wards. That Us and Them, we the inferiors, them the superiors and the split that was forever and ever. There are no Good and Evil people. Some shrinks are actually okay, and if you want a demonstration of OKAY, go see Breggin’s latest articles on Michelle Carter. Then, come back to me and say all psychs are Evil. Don’t ever tell me how to judge other humans, either. Psychs are humans, many, though, are following a corrupt practice. I don’t believe they are intrinsically Evil. To believe this would be to believe in the exact same eugenics that psychiatry teaches.

    Julie

  • I have put a reading from my published memoir of my experience of a destructive teen friendship (like Michelle and Conrad’s) up on Blog Talk Radio.

    This show is a 90-minute reading I pre-recorded devoted to Michelle Carter which will go live tomorrow, August 15, 2017.

    Here is the URL of the show. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    I provided an introduction explaining what destructive teen relationships are. I don’t make assumptions about Michelle and Conrad. I only ask that the audience consider the POSSIBILITY that Michelle may very well have been cornered into doing what she did. She may have believed she had no choice.

    Julie Greene, another survivor of destructive teen relationship, 1971-75

  • Dear Walter, I knew many who took them, may or may not have “felt better.” They are mostly dead now.

    I, as former patient, am happy not to have my head clouded nor too puffed up by an MD degree…..But saddened to lose so many to this obvious scam. This was not a “tradeoff” by any means. The price was too high to pay, for these unfortunate people taken too young, and for their families.

    Julie

  • Ken, I can talk till I’m blue in the face but that won’t stop my friends/acquaintances from going to doctors to beg for pills. They still think that’s what doctors are for. I can argue and argue but it’s useless. I myself was not raised with this “take a pill” mentality. When I first came upon it I was shocked. “Why take pills?”

    A few years later it had rubbed off on me, though. I suffered from an eating disorder and no therapy ever helped in three decades. I found therapy imposing and abusive. I had over 20 of them. The decent ones didn’t stick around very long. Therapy sustained me in a disabled state, encouraging me to stay disabled. Sadly, in three decades they barely acknowledged I had an eating disorder even though I told them clearly!

    By 1982, which was early on, I had concluded that therapy wasn’t going to help, so I figured pills might. There was research stating that pills help binge eating. The research was on the antidepressant imipramine. The book is out of print but it was done by prominant researchers. This went on to prescribing SSRI’s, Topamax, and now, Vyvanse.

    Frankly, I think they’ll find Vyvanse as disappointing as the others, but let’s just say it’s pulling in a profit. My own experience is that ANY drug that reduces appetite in just the right way at just the right time will stop binge eating rather effectively, as will certain foods if eaten at the right time. You can also change up the order you eat your meals and this will do the trick, or, for some, eliminate or add certain food. Some find elimination of “trigger” foods helpful.

    I found that lithium worked. It is known to put on weight, but for me, it reduced my appetite just enough. I had no clue, at the time, exactly how it was “working,” but the “effects” were immediate, dramatic, and very noticeable. TO ME.

    However, because because binge eating is ALMOST ALWAYS done in secret, no one else noticed the difference. So the residential center I was staying at failed to validate that the Lithium had helped my ED.

    This is very sad.

    The last day of my lengthy stay there, in 1984, I met with the director. I told him, “I’m very happy. The lithium has obliterated my eating disorder, so now, I can go on with my life.”

    He said, “You never had an eating disorder. It must have been very minor or you were only imagining it.”

    I felt incredibly crushed. He was so wrong. After I left there, I was called schizophrenic because they assumed I had only invented my ED. It took three decades and nearly starving to death for the world of Mental Health to finally wake up.

    I got over my ED by leaving MH “help” far behind, by ditching all the lies they told me, by ending all supervision and doing it all myself, by getting rid of the diagnoses, and by living as a free, undiagnosed person. I would wish the same freedom for anyone.

    Julie

  • Hi Everyone, Thanks again to Dr. Breggin for doing this wonderful work. My heart goes out to Michelle. I have felt a kinship to her since the case was first publicized. Here on my new radio station I read from my own published memoir about TEEN DESTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIPS. I hope the story, which parallels Michelle’s story, is helpful in shedding some light on what MAY possibly have been going on between her and Conrad….

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/15/reading-destructive-teen-relationships-michelle-carter-and-my-own-story

    The show, which is pre-recorded, will go live Tuesday August 15 2017 and will be accessible thereafter in archives.

    Note: Statistics vary as to how common these relationships are. Back in the early 1970’s, as far as I could tell, relationships such as I was in were rare. I am lucky that I was able to leave the relationship and go on with my life.

    Love, Julie (and Puzzle)

  • I suspect, Mr Fogel and anyone, that we all define “benefit from drugs” differently.

    For instance, I recall someone went to her doctor for drugs. He tried many. He was giving her drugs for depression and asked her if the drugs were “helping.” Finally, she told him that the third was best “because finally he ha given her something that helped her sleep.” This is an example of a short-term miscommunication with minimal harm, I hope.

    Define benefit. I asked for pills. I was given pills and asked if they were “helping.” I noticed Lithium helped with my eating disorder. I said, “Yes, it does.”

    They said, “Oh, so it helps with your bipolar.”
    I said, “No, I came with an eating disorder, not bipolar.”
    They said, “We don’t notice an eating disorder.”

    For 30 years, I judged “effective” by how well a treatment helped me with ED. THEY judged a treatment by how little I “complained” afterward. Much complaining got me a paranoia diagnosis., or an accusation of “whining.” Yes they didn’t help much at all.

    That I know of, patients define “it’s working” differently. Some even want a high.

    Julie

  • I want to add that such Destructive Friendships, though uncommon, do happen occasionally during adolescents. Usually these are romantic partnerships or intense friendships.

    I have located a YouTube series about Destructive Relationships. Almost all of these were teens or junior high age kids. I, too, was involved in such a friendship. In my case, this was with another girl in high school These friendships are intense and often, others are unaware of what is happening. It appears to be “best friends.” Really, in my case, it was slavery. Literally.

    Please read my memoir, “This Hunger Is Secret,” which is available now completely free at my blog, http://www.juliemadblogger.com. Go to the sidebar. Here you will find my memoir, “This Hunger Is Secret” as .pdf. The memoir is not specifically about the friendship with my “best friend” in high school. However, within the book are sections describing what went on. Since the book is written in braided fashion this story is woven within the narrative, that is, the chapter about my high school experience is divided up into sections which you will need to piece together. It starts later in the book, not at the beginning.
    DR BREGGIN, IF YOU FIND IT USEFUL TO THE LEGAL CASE FOR MICHELLE CARTER, please feel free to use it. And tell the lawyers.

    This type of friendship is not common but does happen. Again, usually it is a romantic relationship. And often, it results in a destructive end. I was luckier than most.

    Julie Greene

  • I don’t know why we are bashing Dr. K here. Many, in fact most have NO reaction to anti-d’s, certainly nothing positive EXCEPT the “I sure hope it’s working” effect that lasts about three weeks until the usual letdown. Some have horror story reactions to them. Many feel jittery and get off right away and try another one. Isn’t this what usually happens? Some become manic, right? But if 100% had horror story reactions, I doubt we’d have anyone out there singing the praises of Prozac and the like. I think Dr. K is right. Most do not react in any significant way except “I hope…” In fact, we don’t even hear those stories because the reaction is insignificant. It won’t make a big smashing horror story here on MIA, nor will it be written by NAMI-backed “Take your meds” story writers. These stories, the “Meh” stories aren’t going to even get written up. In fact, those of us whose reactions were “Meh” might not even recall trying the drugs, decades ago. The memories may be so insignificant that they have faded away by now.

    What was that drug?

    Think before you bash. He is right!

    Julie

  • Thanks so much for this. Back around 1982 I started begging my doctors for drugs to help me with binge eating. Since therapy never worked I had begun to believe the binge eating was endogenous.

    It was! Only PLEASE hear me out. It was, for me, caused by the extreme dieting I had done back in 1980. Dieting was not a popular thing to do back then. It doesn’t take long before you get stuck in it. Crash dieting will set many people into a vicious cycle that is hard to stop. You get sucked into it and you get to the point, in fact rather quickly, where your body demands that you binge and/or starve yourself. It isn’t so easy to stop once you start and it isn’t some “underlying psychological problem” but the fact that you dieted, or didn’t eat right to begin with, or you didn’t have access to adequate food for your body.

    Is this a mental illness? No, but I had heard that these drugs stop binge eating so I begged for them, I would do anything to get it to stop. I was rather desperate, so I even “faked” various supposed MI’s of the day, since the doctors claimed eating disorders were petty.

    I must have done a damn good acting job all those decades till I escaped. However, all of life is a stage as far as I know. My suggestion is that you all’s left playing the nut roles quit them ASAP, or get yourselves fired. And Live your Lives. Because it’s more fun that way.

    Love, Julie and Puzzle

  • I’d just like folks who are subscribed to this thread to know that I am launching a radio show on Blog Talk Radio this coming Monday, August 14, 2017, topic: Psychiatric Diagnosis. Pros and Cons. I am inviting anyone who sees this to call in and discuss the topic for 30 minutes. I will upgrade the station when we get listenership and an enthusiastic following.

    Call this number: (323) 443-7210 Press 1 or *1 to speak live to the host (me).

    http://blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger at 3pm New York time.

    Please join in the discussion! Psych diagnosis! Monday th 14th of August 2017 at 3pm New York time. This is a live radio discussion.

    Julie

  • Hey everyone! Call in show, Blog Talk Radio

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/juliemadblogger/2017/08/14/pros-and-cons-of-psychiatric-diagnosis

    Call in! Monday August 14th 2017 at 3pm, Eastern Daylight Time , this is same as NEW YORK, (which is currently -4:00 as Daylight Time (summer), usually -5:00 in winter time).

    Pros and Cons of Psychiatric Diagnosis

    (323) 443-7210 This is only a half hour show until we get the ball rolling. Topics will vary.

  • Dear Dr. Breggin,

    How can I help out? Please get me in touch with Michelle and/or her family. I so much relate to her story.

    I can say that in the 34 years that I was a mental patient I wasn’t often suicidal but one time I was, It was 2012. it was during or following weight gain. I was underweight but was forced to gain via “treatment” and then just couldn’t stop bingeing. I hated my body, hated myself, refused in every way to leave the house except to walk the dog wrapped in the bulkiest coat I could find so that I could hide myself. It was an awful time. Summer came. I couldn’t take off that winter coat. I finally decided the only workable solution was to kill myself. I’m lucky my “plans” never panned out, and none of that ended up on my medical record.

  • I would also disagree with Jolly, but not for Seth’s reason. I don’t think all psych fields are based on stupidity.

    IF the field is based on putting people in categories, that is, based on What Is Wrong With You I Will Fix You! Then it very well may be edging on eugenics, since separating helpers from helpees is suggesting a tiered society. Once you start the separation, that is, the Division of Labor, it is tough to break that mentality.

    However, not all of psych is based on I AM The Great Helper Who Is Superior And Will Cure the Ailing Helpee. A handful refuse to use diagnosis and do not base their work on stating that anything is “wrong” with the person/people they are working with.

    I have met a few who claim to be “alternative.” All I can say is….There’s alternative, and there are outright quacks out there…,,,,,,,,, YOU CHOOSE. And it’s okay to say NO THANKS.

    I personally got better because I realized that going to any sort of shrink, healer, doctor, etc, was verifying the disease state and sustaining me as an ill, disabled person. I realized it just didn’t have to be that way. Thus ended 34 years of “mental illness.” Which had little do do with drugs. it was all about brainwashing. I left all that behind, and i believe others can benefit from recognizing the depth of the brainwashing done to them, too.

  • Thanks, Susan. I want to say that I was a guinea pig for “residents” at McLean. They were kids and they got to toss me around like a plaything for a few years. Well, now they are grown up, mostly rich I suppose. I should have been paid handsomely for being their stepping stone.

    All the while I kept a journal. Those residents scoffed at me as if my writing were child’s play.

    Dear Residents, Here’s what Anne Lamott has to say, “You own everything that happened to you. Tell your stories. If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.” –from Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life

  • Dear Diary, (30 years ago when I was 29) I feel great on this drug called Lithium. It is helping me so much with my eating disorder. I heard something today from another patient about it causing kidney problems later in life. I wonder if that’s true. I never heard that from the doctor, so probably it’s a very rare side effect. Funny how thirsty I feel. I wonder if J’s worries about kidneys were part of his mental illness. He keeps talking about the harms that these medications can cause. I guess he has a lot of problems….

    I seem to sunburn a lot from the other pills. They said I could get Tardive Dyskensia, but not till I’m in my 50’s, so not to worry. I’m not worried, I’m only in my 20’s now, i’m only concerned with how I feel now. Why worry about what happens when I’m an old lady? I’ll never get to be THAT old. Gee, that’s way too far away to worry about.

    Today I filled out a survey they gave us. I put 100% for all of my pills. I wonder what J put. Boy does he have serious problems……I’d better get something for this sunburn, geez…

    Love, Julie

  • Walter K, My observation of patients, over 34 years, as fellow patient, is that they get better on their own, yes. I have seen it with my own eyes. If you observe, people do.

    Any form of “treatment” sustains the belief that there is an “illness.” Therefore, “treatment” sustains and prolongs any “illness” state there is, causing more illness and ultimately, early death.

    I don’t know about anyone else out there but to me it’s just plain ole common sense. Which we as a species should use more often.

    Julie

  • Thanks, Bob, There is so much corruption going on behind the curtain at the uppermost levels. I am surprised Lieberman is still alive.

    I have tried to get a grasp on the dopamine super-sensitivity thing. Does anyone out there know if this is what causes our permanent, hellish insomnia that plagues so many of us, on or off drugs, in our later years? This is totally separate from apnea, which seems to be a separate issue though overdiagnosed for sure. I for one cannot sleep at all without chemicals. and this seems to be permanent damage.

    Or, is it that epigentic methylation thing? Does anyone out there have an actual cure? Even the supposed cure my naturopath suggested doesn’t really work. Anyone out there please contact me if you have any answers, many are desperate……..

  • Dr. Breggin I am from Massachusetts and I had an ED 34 years. As soon as I read this my heart went out to this girl. I feared that starvation or some other consequence, combined with drug effects may have played a part. She could have been dehydrated or her electrolytes could have been off, or she could have been right in the middle of a binge, which hardly anyone understands. And the drugs are unpredictable if a person is starving and adolescent.

    I cried when I read the story. I am so moved that you helped her out. She was only 17. I have blogged extensively about this case in my blog.

    Since when will putting her in prison do anything to help bring Conrad Roy back? Will it help society? Is she THAT dangerous? Or dangerous at all? I don’t think putting her in prison is the right thing. It helps no one and it only increases society’s ignorance. Imprisonment preys on our fears.

    Is there any way I can help? Can I get in touch with her?

  • Henry, I am a survivor of a brainwashing religious cult. I was brainwashed by the Moonies in 1979. They don’t use drugs. They use deceptive recruiting tactics, LOVE, and also, a lot of truth. They mix in a few lies, but who is going to notice if they are oh so kind? I managed to walk away from the Moonies after ten days. Yet the brainwashing done by therapy and it’s cohort, drugs, kept me convinced I had a “mental illness” for over three decades. Yes it’s painful to leave. The grieving of changing beliefs after three decades is unbelievable. Some do not get over it, sorry to say, just like many never get over leaving a cult. They commit suicide, or are so angry they are stuck in misery. I can say, though, with confidence that time can and does heal the grieving, much like time heals most any grief. It’s important not to re-label our grieving, which will only delay and prolong the process, even turn it into yet one more supposed “mental illness.” It’s so tempting to return to the cult, too. But don’t go back. Allow time to do its work.

  • Henry I do not know a darned thing about AIDS nor do I have it so I won’t get into that debate. However, I agree and we need to listen carefully here. Guilt by Association.

    Many of us make claims that others find dubious. We may be correct about some claims and others, we may not be. Some may still be unprovable according to any scientific means and yet unexplored by any research thus far.

    Then along comes research. We may change our minds, or not. I believed, until recently, that I had a mental illness. I would defend that mental illness vehemently. I now do not believe this. I changed my mind. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.

    Does this past statement, “I am mentally ill,” discredit me? Should I go back and change my past statements? I do not change them because I want to illustrate to others the changes that a person goes through, that belief and growth is a transformation, which is truly what learning is. It’s why we are human, we grow and change in time.

  • I would like to know if they took incarceration into account. Incarceration could tip the scales one way or the other. If the patients are drugged the nurses might treat the patient differently. The drugs are clearly in the patient’s system and this is clear to nurses when the pt drools or paces or twitches. The patient isn’t going to do these from a placebo unless he’s copying other patients while incarcerated, perhaps just to feign being drugged so he’ll get out faster. Which is another factor. Drug response gets you out.

  • Henry, a former friend of min e summed up the pro psych camp succinctly. I asked her why she never read the links and materials I sent her, while I, in turn, continued to remain a devoted friend and consistently read her emails to the end and clicked on any link she sent, thinking this is how friends support friends, isn’t it?

    She replied, “Oh no, if it’s about human rights, I refuse to read it.”

  • Just this morning I was joking to myself that we should be paid minimum wage for waiting room time that we spent waiting for late doctors. For time waiting in ER’s, that should be $50 an hour, for time waiting in psych holds, that should be more like $300 an hour, and for time in restraints, well, you can’t even pay that much. Any time on wards or in commitment, unfathomable money. We should be overrun with dough for the time we spent. Retirement is overdue at this point.

  • Dee, I think it is epigenetics, methylation of genes that causes the insomnia. So many drugs do this and I am not sure if there is a fix except reinstating and then, slowly coming off, or for us older folks, staying on a very low dose just to get some sleep. I have been phoning sleep clinics at random in the USA to see if they have any knowledge of epigenetics. So far, they seem to shove it under the rug and deliberately do anything they can to diagnose with sleep apnea. In fact, these clinics look scary slick to me, reeking of scam especially since insurance pays for the equipment. I think pharm is behind the denial of the methyalation and epigetics. Yet it is clearly in the literature. (Apologies for spelling errors I am losing my vision.)

  • John just about anything can be a poison, for instance, iron supplements if given in too high a dose. When you consider lithium 300, the starting dose, that is like supplementing with an insane amount of lithium that no nutritionist would ever consider safe to give.

    Then consider the others. Would a nutritionist ever give a vitamin that made a person twitch and call that healing? I doubt it. Twitching would be seen as a sign of vitamin toxicity I’d imagine yet when it’s pharm, it’s a “side effect,” an “acceptable trade-off,” or even sometimes called “responding to the medication.” Down the line, if we die too young, who is going to care anymore, or even notice? By then, they’ve upped our diagnoses to something more “severe.” It was the illness. “Oh, isn’t mental illness a terrible thing. Oh dear, it was the stigma that killed him, wasn’t it? Died in his sleep.” And the doc has left for New Zealand on a cruise.

  • Look at who this “tiny percentage” of violent are. Look at how we treat the “tiny percentage.” What is it that we do? Well? We may allow them out, now and then, but with obvious caution, one hand clearly on the Panic Button, and we make that Loud and Clear and Insulting enough. We put up very clear signs, You Can’t Bring Weapons Here, and, We Really Expect Violent Behavior From You. So what are we expecting? Violent behavior. Why not stop the expectations…which really come from diagnosis. The diagnosis called Criminal Record. The diagnosis called You were in a mental Prison once. The diagnosis called You Grew Up Poor. The Diagnosis Called All Foster Kids End Up Drug Addicts. We need to end that. End the barriers and even if the “background check” is done (since policy seems to require it), disregard it, let people in. Let folks in who are willing to work, who are wanting jobs, who are probably going to be great tenants, who are honest, who are talented, who mean no harm. Let’s disregard those marks that were in the past. The past is the past. The future should mean OPPORTUNITY, opportunity for all human beings. No more lockup, that is going to be past tense. My plan is to get as many employers, taxpayers, landlords, educational institutions, anyone who agrees to sign on. No more locked doors. And this will spread like a stone dropped in water.

  • Thanks, I’ve saved this very comprehensive list for my files! I am sure others will also find it useful!!! As I see it, psych is not a hard science and using humans as subjects is problematic. “How do you feel?” is not collecting data, since “How do you feel” is mostly a reflection of the psychiatrist or therapist.

  • I’ve been trying to get some rapport with certain legislators by contacting them. I try to limit frequency to increase my impact. Or hoping to do so. I figure whatever I send should be no more than a short paragraph, maybe two. That’s it. And not a form letter. How many times can you read the same ole? Another thing I have done (that really works) is either tear at their heartstrings or even crack a joke. Or wish them a nice day.