Peer Values Versus Violence: A View from Lived Experience


Until recently, I lived in Portland, Oregon, working as Senior Director for a community mental health organization where I saw the employees giving everything to help struggling people. I witnessed great caring and sometimes great healing. And because it was human, there was a range of behaviors that included love and dedication but also anger and frustration. There rarely was violence, although it sometimes happened in the greater community.

On May 16, I moved to Kerrville, Texas.

Eight days after I moved, there was a horrendous mass killing in Uvalde at an elementary school seventy miles from my new Texas home.

Dolphin Dance
Oil on Canvas
© Meghan Caughey

I clearly remember a day about ten years ago when the mass killing at the school called Sandy Hook took place. The peer support team I supervised didn’t know about it yet. I needed to share the awful information about it at that day’s team meeting. That meeting held many tears, and today, I find myself weeping again as I am writing about another mass killing of children and their teachers.

Often when an individual takes a gun and shoots other people, we hear people say, “this murderer must have had a mental illness,” or “this individual was sick and evil.”

But we know from statistics that persons with psychiatric diagnoses are more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators. 

As peer support and peer wellness specialists, it’s our work to use our experience of healing from our mental health and addiction challenges to support and walk side by side with our peers who are also reclaiming their lives. Some of us have survived violent, coercive forms of socially condoned mental health treatments. I have personally been tied down in leather restraints for nearly 24 hours and forcibly drugged against my will. This was a response to my refusing to eat or get out of the psych ward bed. I’ve seen another of my peers in a mental health treatment program with their limbs covered with massive purple bruises from their “treatment.”

But instead of becoming violent, many of us grow past the pain into poignant models of healing and compassion.

Some years ago, a psychiatrist named Dr. Sandra Bloom visited where I was working in the community mental health program. She had developed a powerful, inspired concept called “The Sanctuary Model” (

Briefly put, this model rejects the use or practice of violence in any form—no violent actions or speech. Instead, everyone, both patients and providers in mental health treatment, agrees to create a “sanctuary” and find other ways to communicate about and solve challenging and complex issues. No violence of any kind, including guns or other weapons, threats, or words. People non-violently connect with each other and community members instead of being isolated and shunned, as many with mental health diagnoses are. The Sanctuary Model involves humans agreeing to find different ways to resolve our difficulties rather than physical, verbal, or other manifestations of violence.

Some people don’t believe that this non-violent model is even possible. Some of you might question if human beings can withhold violence and find non-violent means to resolve varying points of view and differing values. In our culture today, it is often an assumption that we must counter violence and anger with more violence and anger—that non-violence and the people who value and practice it will be crushed by violence.

Indeed, old-school psychiatry was founded on the principle of justifying violence. This stereotypical psychiatric position is that at any time they may be called upon to use force or coercion to imprison and medicate—against their will—those with psychiatric diagnoses in order to protect them or their community from potential future harm. Countering the possibility of future violence with actual violence in the present. The lack of humanity and creativity is antithetical to healing and health for individuals and communities.

But can you be healed from violence by having more violence done to you? It is the non-violent model that is truly healing and compassionate.

Sometimes animals can be our teachers. We have seen examples of a threatening animal, such as a dog or cat, with a history of being beaten and starved. But then, when some loving person takes in the animal and is gentle, feeding it, treating it in a new way, the animal heals and becomes a source of love. This healing can be true with humans too.

I recently heard a description of planet Earth that an astronaut reported. They looked out from their spacecraft, saw our small, alone planet, and were struck by how beautiful and fragile it is. There is no room for violence on our vulnerable planet. And we are all vulnerable living beings sharing it.

The fragility of our planet communicates several truths: we cannot afford violence directed at each other, ourselves, or our environment.

And we who live here on our fragile planet are all connected, even if we are unaware of it.

There is no basis for the “othering” in which human individuals and groups sometimes engage. Persons with mental health challenges are often “othered.” Prejudice and discrimination are everyday experiences for many of us with psychiatric diagnoses.

So here we are. It has been nearly two years since George Floyd was murdered in a culture that still demonstrates the violence of racism –and less than two weeks since a racially motivated mass murder in Buffalo, NY. Personal and systemic violence happens when we negate our common humanity and when the culture is not innovative or motivated to look honestly at itself, say no and instead create positive responses.  

I’ve been crying because of my sorrow for the little children and their teachers who were gunned down and killed in Uvalde. I find myself asking what I can do to keep this from happening—at a time when it is only more widespread than ever before.

As a person with the lived experience of psychiatric issues who has had culturally endorsed violence inflicted upon me in response to my psychiatric problems, I ask, “What can I do to break the cycle of violence?”

The governor of Texas and others say the answer to mass murder is more “mental health.” While we need expanded resources for mental health, if our culture continues to accept and feed an environment of more violence, we won’t be able to save innocent, vulnerable lives. The context of mental health treatment is as important as the treatment itself. If we perpetuate the acceptance of weapons of mass murder, there will still be more mass murders. Also, if mental health treatment utilizes forms of violence such as physical restraints and over-drugging, we will perpetuate more violence. People will not have the opportunities or expectations of creating change in their behavior or the hope that change is possible.

Instead, those who give and receive behavioral health support can put our energy into creating individual and systemic kindness. In some ways, it can be easy to perceive our world and culture as frightening and dangerous. And yet, if we dare to model kindness and gentleness, there becomes an alternative to the violence. Despite the common stereotype that behavioral health issues frequently lead to violence, we can create something different that is commonly considered impossible or unlikely.

And perhaps because it is not commonly expected, it can be surprising and help the rest of society question some common assumptions about violence.

We know that there are countries outside the United States where violence is rare. They demonstrate that non-violence is possible.

Perhaps those who have experience with psychiatric diagnosis and treatment can call attention to the emperor’s lack of clothes. The suffering person can reflect on what needs to be done to create peace.

I don’t mean this in a romantic way—Emotional pain can fuel extreme behaviors. I am pointing to how a view from outside the everyday cultural norm can introduce valid new perceptions into the fabric of the culture.

I don’t have any simple answers. I think that because of my lived experience of violent mental health treatments and the contrast of experience of treatments that are caring, perhaps I have gained heightened sensitivity to the issue of violence. My choice of non-violence and compassion are better examples of what my mental illness has encouraged in me—the opposite of the violence often ascribed to people with a psychiatric diagnosis. Those with a history of “mental illness” who have been given the non-violent support we need to recover can help lead our culture away from violence. I value sanctuary and non-violence and vow to dedicate my life to living it.

We must reject worn, inaccurate stereotypes and build healing connections and non-violent options. It only creates prejudice and discrimination when persons with psychiatric issues are immediately blamed. Our culture suffers from egregious stereotypes and biases. And yet those of us with mental health challenges can be essential in helping to build a socially integrated, just, and compassionate culture.

I hope that as we express gentleness and kindness towards our peers and others with whom we share this planet, we will create a world of sanctuary—a world with safety for all people and this very planet itself. We can help lead to the creation of healing from the sheer pain of our lives, creating a model of wholeness within our communities.

It’s not easy, but every choice and action we make matters.


Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.


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  1. This is lovely.

    My sanctuary is the kindness of trees and birds and grasses and insects.

    All I could add is that we must be aware of the way society teaches us to only accept nice feelings. Since most humans are cauldrons of seething irritations, most humans can only manage a charade of niceness much of the day. This perplexes them into fearing unattractive feelings. This leads to closing off to those and becoming alienated from their interior realness. This make life seem unreal and disturbing. So what starts as an effort to be nice can end up in numbness and creepy disassociation. Which is why the trope of niceness makes a good foil in horror movies.

    There is something attractive about the “not nice”. They can be a sanctuary too. A relief in their animal honesty. But I fully flow with what you are endeavouring to do. I call it being baby caring. And it needs no academic nod to establish it. It is found only in simplicity.

    Good on you good woman !!!

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  2. Hi Meghan,

    You write;

    “I don’t have any simple answers. I think that because of my lived experience of violent mental health treatments and the contrast of experience of treatments that are caring, perhaps I have gained heightened sensitivity to the issue of violence. My choice of non-violence and compassion are better examples of what my mental illness has encouraged in me—the opposite of the violence often ascribed to people with a psychiatric diagnosis.”

    Could this possibly be interpreted as it being the violence you have been treated with has got you to the place your at now? It would certainly explain why mental health professionals consider their violence as a means to ‘treat’ people. I mean, if I kick a dog (and I need to be careful doing that in my State given that the abuse of an animal carries a penalty twice that of the abuse of a mental patient, and have actually been prosecuted. Unlike those who abuse mental patients where the laws protecting them has NEVER BEEN USED)….. but so I kick a dog and it behaves itself, am I not more likely to kick it again the next time it misbehaves?

    Don’t misunderstand me here, in my religion the use of torture is seen as being a way of leading oneself astray. ‘you beat this man when he tells you things you don’t want to hear, and then stop when he says what you do?’ Speak to the Community Nurse who claimed me as his “outpatient” to Police before he even left the hospital to ‘bring me in’ for ‘treatment’.

    I must admit, it has been difficult to not respond to his State sanctioned violence in kind, given that they openly stated they would “fucking destroy” me (and my family) for daring to complain, and then engaged in a vicious campaign of criminality to ensure that no one found out they were simply snatching anyone they wished from their beds and torturing them. It tends to get out of hand when your given those sorts of powers as a Community Nurse, ask the people who survived the Nazi regime.

    There’s another example of people leading themselves astray…… woops, sorry, they tried to make it unlawful to make comparisons between the State and the Nazis when they passed their Euthanasia Laws. Can’t have people making those sorts of comparisons when your laws are basically those of the National Socialists’ translated from German to English right? The Mental Health Act allowing people to be detained and force drugged for their “potential”, as opposed to the way the law should protect, for something demonstrable. Suss laws basically.

    The problem as I see it is, who enforces the rules should someone not abide by the no violence rule? I mean in my State police gave up on trying to stop violence, and are the perpetrators of it these days (mock executions and threats of pack rape used to ‘coerce’ citizens to good behaviour such as wearing a bicycle helmet). Preferring to provide material assistance to mental health professionals to cause ‘acute stress reactions’ and enable them to obtain confessions from their ‘patients’ living in the community (called citizens in liberal democracies I believe). everyone in my State an “outpatient” waiting to be treated should their political beliefs not alight with the State governments views. “Der Fuhrer hat immer recht”

    Anyway, good luck with your project.

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  3. I’ve taken on behaviourally challenging dogs as I found I have some kind of gift at helping them. These are big, strong dogs that in the institution, the rescue centre, become a source of fear and apprehension, which is self-perpetuating. This can result in a classic vicious circle in which the dog becomes trapped, and angry about being trapped, leading to the likelihood of remaining trapped.

    Currently I have an American bulldog. He was nearing the point of being unreleasable and a permanent guest at the rescue centre.

    It has taken only a few months to totally transform him. He is now a very relaxed, loving, kind and freely expressing dog and is growing every day.

    I support the creation of places of sanctuary for people suffering problems of interpersonal conflict, aggressiveness and tendency towards violence. However, I do not think people can be healed like a dog can. People are just so incredibly more complex.

    I don’t mean that people can’t heal; I mean that a sanctuary that forbade violent conflict and aggresiveness could only succeed if it excluded a core group of people who were, in fact, irredeemably violent and aggressive.

    There are irredeemable people. Likewise there are irredeemable dogs.

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    • “This can result in a classic vicious circle in which the dog becomes trapped, and angry about being trapped, leading to the likelihood of remaining trapped.”

      I’ve seen such situations used to CREATE a dog that is vicious, for the purposes of dog fights. In fact, I believe I have seen it deliberately done with ‘patients’ to weaponise them, and then use them as a tool to harm others, and walk away with the cookie jar….. you know what they say…. where there’s a will, there’s relatives. [mentally ill man beats mother to death with frying pan]

      However, I have been told by an ‘expert’ that such weaponising of ‘patients’ is not possible (which would make moot any argument in the Courts regarding the ‘blooding’ of our young soldiers in Afghanistan). And he didn’t wish to examine how it was done with canines.

      Certainly some people think it possible, see for example the clams made about Graham Young in the Young Poisoners Handbook, pushing his ‘roommate’ to suicide by ‘whispering in his ear’. There was also that young woman who Breggin appeared in Court for. In fact, I personally was subjected to such a process after someone recognised that I had been ‘baited’ by the hospital for some weeks and was becoming increasingly aggressive as a result (the threats to peoples families particularly effective I note)….. Opportunity Knocks huh? Keep him ‘caged’ until he is pushed to the point of exploding (via a process of ‘gaslighting’), and then present him with an unsuspecting victim. Open the cage door and the Chihuahua doesn’t stand much chance against the Pit Bull that is ready for a fight.

      And then when you look back at the narrative that was prepared to defraud others……. I started out as a man who had been ‘spiked’ and tortured, and then a false narrative prepared to justify the brutality they wished to subject me to. Of course, no one wants to examine the facts, they prefer ‘terrorist’ or ‘mental patient’ or hey lets edit” them to make them both. Anything but the truth.

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      • What I learnt — finally, after many mistakes — is if I rub people up the wrong way, now and again, one of them is going to be in a position to do some serious damage to me psychologically, and this has happened, a number of times. Particularly if I’ve set out on some kind of moral crusade, whisteblowing, exposing wrongdoing. To this day my character is blighted by innuendo, lies, false accusations, malicious gossip. Some people are very connected and they can wield insidious power, with a smug grin on their face.

        We can all be manipulated, even dogs can, to end up displaying the coarser sides of our characters and then it’s “I told you so.”

        The tricky part is to recognise it’s happening, tread knowingly and carefully, and not be the mouse that gets trapped.

        This becomes far more difficult if your frontal lobes have been damaged by antipsychotics. Difficult, not impossible, but very difficult.

        Wishing you the best,.

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        • Thanks R.R.

          You’ve been good value in your comments. I think back to the benefit I reaped form your Saul of Tarsus comments oh so long ago.

          “is if I rub people up the wrong way, now and again, one of them is going to be in a position to do some serious damage to me psychologically, and this has happened, a number of times.”

          I know I’m not out to rub anyone the wrong way, just speak my truth as I know it. Sure I don’t have the ability of some, but I try. Now, my original attempt at speaking the truth resulted in exactly as you say, some people who were well connected attempting to do me harm. I suppose they thought that they were in control, thus demonstrating what they actually believe. Something else showed them otherwise.

          “To this day my character is blighted by innuendo, lies, false accusations, malicious gossip. Some people are very connected and they can wield insidious power, with a smug grin on their face.”

          ‘They will say you are mad’, and can be enabled to wield insidious power, and then be led astray by that delusion they are more powerful than their Creator. And it’s not like the information isn’t available, though the “edited” version does seem to be the preferred ‘edition’.

          And after being subjected to what might be considered abuse by some, I have examined what my life is actually worth. The threat of being executed for truth speaking whilst my community stands and watches a true test of the heart.

          The Book is true, of this I have no doubt. And there are some duties placed on all of us, including the unbelievers. Whilst I have no knowledge of what has been done as a result of the vicious attack on me and my family by the State, I can categorically state that I have been left to live in fear of being subjected to the same abuse again, for no other reason than speaking the truth.

          I would have thought that my own government would have at least offered me the opportunity to leave these abusers, because whilst I KNOW they are aware of the criminal offences committed by the representatives of the State, they have done nothing more than increase the levels of ‘gaslighting’ I am still being subjected to with their cover up of their cover ups.

          Speaking the truth not an option? ‘Do not conceal the truth when you know what it is’ is the instruction I was given, though the ‘Treaty’ only seems to apply to one party in the transaction, the other party neglecting to maintain their part of the agreement by denying the protections afforded the community.

          I am coming to terms with that ‘narrative’, and understand the way in which my community must reject me due to maintaining their part of the ‘Treaty’ whilst watching the other party use it as a mechanism of abuse.

          And how much more ‘psychological damage’ can be done when the resources of the State can be used to ‘fuking destroy’ someone for daring to complain about being ‘spiked’ and snatched unlawfully from your bed by police. This from an Operations Manager, some low level public ‘servant’? Not really serving the public of course, just having them pay for their abuses.

          And the forging and uttering by the Law Centre with that letter purporting to be from the Chief psychiatrist? The psychological damage done by that…….. but, ‘just doing their job’, I get it. Not the truth? Not a preferred truth.

          I can in a rather convoluted sense see how lawyers may be acting in your interests if they realise you’ve been tortured and kidnapped, but that actually making a complaint will result in actions by the State that are not so beneficial to your health, ie the stopping of your heart. But why bother with a Charter of Healthcare Rights then? A right to complain, except if it’s a valid complaint…, then you lose your rights.

          I had no idea these ‘legal representatives’ were actually enabling the human rights abuses by conspiring to conceal them. But if the State needs to ‘fuking destroy’ me for pointing these facts out, then so be it.

          “This becomes far more difficult if your frontal lobes have been damaged by antipsychotics. Difficult, not impossible, but very difficult.”

          I haven’t actually taken any of these drugs (I did take one Seroquel [obtained for an exit dose] one night and literally began sweating profusely and collapsed for a time unknown), but just because I have had prescriptions written for these drugs does not mean I actually took them. It was my only means of escape when I was locked up after being ‘spiked’ for example, take these drugs with you and you can go. I can see the loophole in that conversation, and should be locked up if I didn’t lol

          “The tricky part is to recognise it’s happening, tread knowingly and carefully, and not be the mouse that gets trapped.”

          I did try this and found myself in the E.D. at the point of being restrained and injected. I had been ‘trapped’ some time before and used as bait for another ‘trap’. The mouse meets the cat, who got swallowed by the shark as it attempted to eat the mouse lol. All non consensual I note.

          I had a conversation with the psychologist the police used to find out “who else had the documents”. he claimed that the State protected him with laws, and I asked where this State was in this room with us. Should I have a weapon and chose to harm him, all the State could do was respond to my unlawful act by putting me in prison (or “editing” the reality for the courts).

          God on the other hand does provide him with protection, by being able to take a bullet from a gun and cast it to the floor. I might not know how that has occurred, and I don’t believe in magic, but He has that ability. Some might call it luck. Fact is, there is no protection except from God, and I stand here writing this as a direct result of that protection.

          Those who had evil in their hearts to see me ‘dispatched’ a little too early to suffer the consequences of their actions at a time appointed.

          And those who conceal the truth with falsehoods to stand alongside them wondering why they have been condemned as a result of their own actions, trying to lay blame with those who led them astray. “Just following orders” is not a valid defense. I look forward to them attempting to deceive God with their fraud and slander, or use their deliberate negligence in their duty as a justification for their failure to report. And I think you might feel the same when the people assassinating your character are asked to justify their actions, because they will at some point be held to account despite their illusion of being all powerful (Canute orders the tide to halt. Tide ignores Royal Order)

          But despite all of the ‘baiting’ I have been subjected to, I don’t believe I have crossed the line by responding in kind. not that this wasn’t a choice available to me, but a wise man once said “it is better to forgive”. That as a principle I find difficult to argue with. Sure I’m angry. but that’s why it would be unjust of me to act, or fail to say something so that those with a duty can act, rather than find “insufficient evidence” because they pretend to not look.

          Anyway R.R. , your good value. You take care too.

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          • I worte above;

            I know I’m not out to rub anyone the wrong way, just speak my truth as I know it. Sure I don’t have the ability of some, but I try.

            I have asked others who do have an ability to write to assist me in writing all of this up. Even offered to pay. But, they look, and realise that they would be ‘rubbing some people the wrong way’ and their families would be at risk so they ensure that they breach the agreements they have made with me and do what suits their purposes. even refusing to return the “edited” documents used to slander me despite a solid agreement that (a)should I ask for them back, they would be returned without question, and (b) that they were not to be shared with anyone without my express consent.

            Though I’d still be happy to work with someone who would like to take a look at these documents which are my medical records which in the first instance show that I was (a) ‘spiked’ with date rape drugs and when I collapsed (b) a Community Nurse called Police and lied to them claiming I was his “Outpatient” to have them force me into an interrogation where he then made shit up and swore to it on a Statutory Declaration.

            The “edited” legal narrative showing a mental patient of 10 years being referred to his hospital by his Community Nurse and then transported by Police without incident. The administration of the “Outpatients” “Regular Medications” creating a false narrative regarding me being ‘spiked’ with date rape drugs, and the Police delivering me to the locked ward creating the appearance that I was a Police referral. All reference to Police attendance removed for the purposes of “editing”.

            Using police to procure citizens in this manner a criminal offence, made clear to Authorised Mental Health Practitioners during their ‘training’ (the ‘verbals’ done in Creative Writing classes at Community College. “refused to answer re substance abuse”, “thoughts of harming others” an Observed Behaviour. These being an example of the standard of the statutory declarations being used to incarcerate and force drug people. I wasn’t even aware of the drugs I was being abused with, so how could I answer? And the refusal to answer a question is not justification for forcing someone to do anything. He refused to answer and therefore we find you guilty of the offence. Still, this is mental health we are speaking about)

            Anyone know a good journalist? Or even better, an ethical one? I’ve given up on lawyers, who tell me that my doctor prescribed the ‘spiking’ but then tell me they can’t reveal to me who my doctor is for reasons of confidentiality. The fact I didn’t have one a problem they can’t seem to admit. Still, I guess when you believe the slander about nutjob, it’s easy to think you can put one over someone paying you thousands for nothing. Their poisonous conduct no doubt having a big effect on our community and the trust we used to place in such professions.

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  4. Use of antidepressants and benzos is sadly quite high in some centres for dogs, I’ve learnt. These scandals just seem to be spilling all over the place. It’s exasperating.

    I was just about to reply because I don’t think I agree with my pessimism again.

    You often hear the much repeated line “just gotta find the right drug” and I think, more and more, it’s often really the case of someone needing to find the right person, or the right person in the right situation, for healing to occur.

    Same with dogs. There were 3 people before me who backed out and gave in on the bully. He was a handful! But we made a good match for him, our home situation, it all fell into place.

    So I am probably wrong about people or dogs being irredeemable. It might just be a sad outcome because they didn’t find the right person and situation that was a good fit.

    A lot depends on luck in life.

    Then again, there aren’t many people capable of being as forgiving as a dog.

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    • They tend to not bother too much with dogs that are a problem here, a dose of the ‘blue dream’ if they can get the owners to pay for ‘rehousing’. But, it is in many ways the wild West.

      I guess what stands out for me is that in order to be ‘redeemed’ the abuse would need to actually stop first. No good keep kicking the dog and wondering why it is acting aggressively. Forgiveness not possible for the victim who continues to be subjected to abuse, which is how this State responds to their known abuses, with more and more abuse. And the way they actively engage anyone who might stand up and say something…….. good news is that we know who and what they are. I mean I didn’t believe these public officers when ‘they’ threatened my grandchildren, they don’t do such things to kids who have done nothing, do they? but I’ve had to live with not seeing them for 12 years because of those threats from the Operations Manager.

      And I appreciate all the help I received from my community, many of whom were aware of what was being done to me. I hope to return the favor someday.

      But the idea of redemption of people who are slaughtering others for their own personal gain ….. meh, maybe. Sure it’s not nice and I personally would like to be doing it for a job, but someone has got to do it. And they can of course ask for forgiveness right up until their last breath, and it may be given. I’d prefer they didn’t but I’m not the one handing out forgiveness.

      But I have pondered some of these issues about why there are people who can abuse children for 30 or 40 years and no one does anything about it. Their knowledge that their “character flaws” will be tolerated and forgiven by the community despite the massive amounts of harm they are doing to that community astounds me. But when children are ‘escaping’ from such places, and are being returned by Police only to be locked in cages the size of tea chests and repeatedly raped for complaining…….well, I don’t feel so bad that such people live their lives out in anger at the ‘enablers’.

      And the effect on the enablers is….. like they give a fuk, until it’s one of theirs. Then they will find the copy of the criminal Code for Police huh?

      I note a registrar is given 1/4 the amount of date rape drugs I was (by someone who was authorised to write prescriptions for that drug) and the ‘spiker’ goes to prison. It’s done to me and my life is fuking destroyed for trying to complain. And if there was any justification worthy of note, I assume it would have been put forward. There isn’t one, two people got together and conspired to commit crimes against me, and they received support form corrupt public officers who are unaccountable….. well, there’s some good news there, they never really see it coming. That would provide them with an opportunity to seek redemption, and we don’t want that. better the true contents of their heart is exposed when they meet their maker. (should have seen the face of the Doc who was going to snuff me when he got interrupted. At least we know he is willing to kill if ordered to by the State [not for an organised criminal though, naughty naughty]. Handy chap to have around, mainly because of the trust the community put in him. “they wouldn’t do that” lol).

      Still, all sounds mad and I’m sure you haven’t got time to look at the proof because there’s a dog to feed.

      If the State ever stops with the abuse, I might consider forgiveness. But they can not be redeemed until they do that, and there’s a snowballs chance in Hell of that happening, given the fact they simply kill anyone who doesn’t remain silent about their abuse. sure they will “edit” and try and ‘treat’ the victim of their abuse, but the idea of making an admission? Or doing their duty and doing what they can to rectify the harm they have done? And it is their harm given the decision by the UN that the State IS responsible for the criminal actions of public officers. But…. not like they even recognise the protections afforded by the law, so why on earth would they think they could ever be responsible for the damage from their torture, kidnappings and ‘outcomings’ to ensure the silence of people wronged by the State?

      And it’s a eye for eye
      Tooth for tooth
      That’s a lie
      That’s the truth
      See a blind man on the street
      Looking for something free
      Hear the kind man ask his friends
      Hey buddy, what’s in it for me?

      And that about sums it up . Not a soul tried to actually help me in among this, all about what’s been in it for them. Watch as they turn their backs on you once they have what they need. Quick, run to the Pharaoh with the ‘news’.

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  5. “These are big, strong dogs that in the institution, the rescue centre, become a source of fear and apprehension, which is self-perpetuating”

    And yes, your right, the paranoid delusions of the mental health professionals DOES end up with them brutalising people, and then using the response to that conduct as justification to force drug and ECT them. Unjustified fear and apprehension.

    I like to refer people to the notes of the Senior Medical Officer who signed the fraudulent prescription for the date rape drugs (to conceal the offending to have me tortured) I was ‘spiked’ with, who writes “Potential for violence, but no actual history or clear intent”. So what’s he got? Nothing other than his own irrational fears? And he is drugging people on a daily basis for those irrational fears? And then pondering his failure on his yacht at the weekend?

    And sure, they don’t always get it right……. well in fact, take a walk down the corridors and look at what they actually define as being a ‘success’. Having trouble hitting a target, make the target bigger.

    Still, not my concern anymore. It’s the families of others they have moved on to fuking destroy with their ‘care’. And with the advantage in a ‘first strike’, that is have police commit a crime for you first (procure the victim unlawfully) and they can’t possibly turn and help the victim, simply double down and ensure the perpetrators get the opportunity to ‘outcome’ the complainant. Which as we now know. tends to result in the cessation of their heartbeat. A side effect of the ‘treatment’.

    I still laugh to this day at the comments of a psychiatrist who I explained all of this to, and her argument from authority as a defense. “They wouldn’t do that”. You would think that of all people who understand the evil that can reside in the heart, she would have understood that they might have done that, and it might have been best they looked rather than dismiss someone who had been slandered as ‘mental patient’. I mean it wasn’t like I was claiming abduction by aliens, and I had after all put the documented proof to her…….. excusing her ‘confidentiality’ to hopefully stop others being ‘harmed’.

    “They wouldn’t do that”? They did that as the documents proved, but as one would expect there are times when the delusional prefers his/her delusions to the truth. Knowing that the State is authorising torture and arbitrary detentions of potential whistleblowers a step too far, because THEY are also ‘potential’ whistleblowers. ‘Potential’ for violence? ‘Potential’ for damage to the State? My, the uses that psychiatry can be put to seem never ending, and possibly the reason the psychologist needed to lie and say “It never happened” (that is the Police referral for a ‘snow job’), lest he end up being ‘treated’ for knowing the truth.

    Hey I just realised that the original hospital who tortured and kidnapped me couldn’t send my file over to the other hospital because ………. they couldn’t have anyone else knowing what they had done. That provided me with time to discuss with other ‘health professionals’ what had been done, and for them to think I was a nutjob because “they wouldn’t do that”. Me sitting there with the proof in documents, and the hospital thinking they had been retrieved and that the “edited” version was being distributed by the Law Centre. Your own lawyers slandering you with their forged documents….. I’ve got more reasons to laugh than I thought. Woops, he’s been telling the truth the whole time…… like the divorce lawyer “I thought you were mad, but you’ve got the proof”. Like a shark with blood in the water lol.

    Now it makes sense…… their request for my file deliberately delayed because …… well, they had already distributed enough fraudulent documents, adding to the offences with their own colleagues might be going a bit far. And asking them to join in the fuking destruction of a torture and kidnap victim????? Not sure they would take the offer up, they might even report the request to conspire.

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    • This is a significant point.

      Police conspiring with hospital A to conceal their misconduct, and me ending up in the Emergency Dept in the ‘sights’ of a ‘hotshot’ (rudely interrupted by someone who doesn’t have the stomach for it). I am left to wander with my ‘paranoid delusions’ after the documents have been “edited” to make the truth appear to be such. (Ie the claim that one has been drugged without their knowledge a paranoid delusion without the documents, but a crime if you have the proof).

      I am left on the street for two years and then ‘approach’ mental health services thinking ….. maybe there’s someone who can help. Hospital B is prepared to ‘treat’ me according to my wishes, and I spend time with a psychiatrist and psychologist. The psychologist particularly helpful in getting me to a point where I can approach Police with the documented proof of the offending….. which as a result of their conspiring with hospital A they still have ‘flagged’ to be turned away so they can find “insufficient evidence”.

      I attend a Police Station with a social worker and am ‘immediately referred’ to mental health services before even speaking to police. I was according to police “hallucinating” in their attempted referral, though NOT according to the Social Worker who was with me (a mental health professional I note). Police are passed on to the psychologist I had been speaking to, and he explains to them that he had seen the documents and that this was NOT a “hallucination” I was suffering from.

      Problem, police are conspiring to pervert with hospital A, and are now faced with the situation where they are required by law to take the proof. So the Senior Constable tells me he is going to arrest me for having my medical records (and then a threat over the ‘verballed’ claim made by the Community Nurse which I said I was more than happy to defend in court). S.C. then goes with the documents and claims he has copied them, and hands them back to me with an Incident Report Number. I stood out the front of the Station and discussed the ‘proceedings’ with the Social Worker, explaining to him that the S.C. hadn’t copied the documents at all, he was lying.

      I went away and discussed this with the psychologist who laughed with me about the claim that I was “hallucinating”, and explained the events as they had unfolded after I had spoken to him from the Police Station.. It was maybe two weeks later that he decided that these events so clear in my mind had “never happened”, which I was rather confrontational with him about. Not easy when someone lies about a matter like that to your face. The Social Worker…… gone and doesn’t want to speak to me…. and sure I get what it’s like when police are the offenders and are using their position to intimidate and threaten peoples families (as explained by the psychologist for his conduct). Police now busy trying to conceal the torture and kidnapping for hospital A, and hospital B looking on while they openly commit these offences.

      Just goes to show how easily mental health professionals can be corrupted. Police want someone outcomed to conceal their corruption? No problem at all, people will do exactly what they are told, and possibly justify it with “they wouldn’t do that”.

      All covered up now mind you, with ‘assistance’ from some quarters which may surprise anyone who cared to look. Couldn’t possibly have the public aware that police are conspiring with mental health to conceal the acts of torture being done in these ‘facilities’. It’s simply not in their interest.

      I wondered about that ‘clash’, it was quite a chaotic time. My ‘home’ broken into and my laptop stolen (“who else has got the documents?” huh?) Member of Parliament telling me he needed to work with police, despite knowing they were concealing human rights abuses [after examining the two sets of documents, the real set and the “edited” ones over a period of an hour and a half. Me asking which set the State was going to put to the federal Courts when I applied for a divorce…. access denied to legal representation so I cant even get a divorce], people running scared due to the threats to their families, ……. and then the ‘meetings’ that no doubt “never happened” either. Couldn’t possibly be seen providing support to me, despite knowing the truth. The falsehood needing to be maintained to ensure the ‘treatment’ program which I ‘accidentally’ became a part of continues, whilst those who were attempting to harm me whilst remaining ‘invisible’ go about harming others.

      Trust in haste, regret at leisure people.

      I would like to point out that this doesn’t appear to be more that a clinic psychologist and her psychiatrist husband ‘picking a few pockets’ for a dollar. Enslave the person you know has received a payout from the courts, and subject them to ‘coerced’ treatment [or force if that fails] until the money runs out. Particular places good for identifying individuals ripe for the picking)

      The hospital resources they chose to use for their wealth extraction, not really fit for purpose (nor for anything one would describe as ‘care’ to be honest). Once on a path to conceal their misconduct though, they had no real choice other than to have me snuffed. The State rather embarrassed about their torture program (disguised as being ‘healthcare’) being exposed to people other than the Law Centre (who are actively providing material assistance to the State for a fee), needed to do what they have always done, a cover up. Hence the forging and uttering by the Law Centre of a letter from the Chief Psychiatrist, or would he be prepared to take ownership of that bizarre response to a valid complaint? I think not lol

      And the benefits of being able to arbitrarily detain and torture citizens of great benefit to our community. If you have the stomach for it that is.

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      • Hi boans

        Years ago I helped an old man get his thoughts down into a book form that he could self-publish and offer to his family as he was facing death. That was difficult enough.

        Your story is intense, really very intense, and I do not doubt the torment you’ve suffered and go on suffering to be heard.

        I’m not a journalist or a professional writer but I do have some rudimentary understandings about organisation of words and I’m willing to offer you some help to get your story down. I recognise it would be a significant task.

        And that you’d want a lot of z’s where I want s’s.

        Let me know what you think.

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        • Hi R.R.,

          I really appreciate the offer. I guess it would involve checking facts which I have made available on the net.

          I suppose when I think about it, the chaotic time when I turned up in the Police Station with the documents they thought had been retrieved, and the subsequent ‘actions’ taken whilst they were running around trying to cover up a rather bad cover up has passed.

          Just because I haven’t been privvy to what was done, doesn’t mean nothing was done, if you get my drift.

          But they did actually release the unredacted documents to me showing the facts/truth. Sure, it was a bit like releasing the video showing police breaking a mans legs knowing that this won’t actually do anything to help him out of his wheelchair but……. knowing I was right did actually put me on a path to some healing. Of course loosing my family and all of my belongings for daring to try and access the protections afforded by the law seemed a bit much, especially given the ‘parties’ who were ensuring that this path was obstructed.

          I suppose what would be of most benefit to others is the methods used by the State to subvert the Convention against the use of Torture, which they obviously ratified with no intention of ever honoring.

          I think the use of police to ‘flag’ individuals for ‘mental health referrals’ to ‘friendlies’ at hospitals is disgraceful. If you dare try and make a complaint about known human rights abuses, you have literally no chance of being allowed to make a complaint.

          Article 13
          Each State Party shall ensure that any individual who alleges he has been subjected to torture in any territory under its jurisdiction has the right to complain to, and to have his case promptly and impartially examined by, its competent authorities. Steps shall be taken to ensure that the complainant and witnesses are protected against all ill-treatment or intimidation as a consequence of his complaint or any evidence given.

          This is NOT the case where I live, despite this being an agreement that has been ratified, and in fact they have signed the Optional Protocol.

          The “competent authorities” in my instance an FOI Officer who conspired with a known criminal to try and bring me under the control of the Mental Health Act so that deliberate harm could be done to silence me. Or was that the Operations Manager who provided the fraudulent set of documents with the legal narrative changed to create a window of opportunity for me to be harmed and silenced?

          All quite disgraceful when you realise these people have shown what they think of the ‘protections’ afforded by the laws designed to limit their powers because of the vulnerable people they could easily abuse.

          And then the situation with the Mental Health Law Centre, which is enough to make even cold hearted people want to vomit.

          They would use their position as a legal representative to exploit the trust of someone who, at best, they suspected had been subjected to acts of torture and who may be quite isolated and vulnerable? At worst, they might have actually KNOWN I had been tortured given the comments by the Q.C. who wrote the draft complaint to the Chief Psychiatrist. And then to forge and utter a response from the Chief Psychiatrist after checking I didn’t have the documents that proved what I am saying to be true? Really? And believe me, I KNOW this to be true now. These are not public officers doing a cover up from within government, these are people who are charged with ensuring the protection of vulnerable individuals FROM corrupt public officers and misconduct.

          Of course, friendships develop when your a high profile lawyer and your having meetings with the Minister weekly, and …….. is there anything that might increase your State funding? Perhaps a little conspiring to conceal human rights abuses that come their way? A little perverting the course of justice here, a little fraud when someone is put through the ‘voluntary assisted dying’ program and the paperwork needs “editing”?

          I feel sure there are those that doubt what I am saying, and then there are those who recognise what I am saying and are aware that their families would be in danger should they say anything. See Article 13 about witness intimidation etc.

          If it is as simple as the State using Police to threaten and intimidate a persons legal representative………or to even perhaps increase the funding they receive……. is it any wonder Australia has what might be considered a ‘good’ record on human rights? If your ensuring that there is no avenue for making a complaint (care to see the response I received from the Attorney General when I expressly asked to exercise my right?), then your record is going to look pretty darn good.

          I’d really like people to be aware that they can’t even trust their own legal representatives (who in some instances simply charge you thousands knowing they will be throwing you under a bus), or certain doctors (I have met some who have high ethical standards on this journey), or even your own family. Sure I know what it is like when ‘authorities’ threaten to shoot you and dump you in the bush if you don’t toe the line. This is called ‘coercion’ and does not meet the standard of torture because they know that the threat is to psychologically coerce and not force. Just because the ‘target’ isn’t aware their isn’t a round in the chamber, and they believe something false…… anyway, I understand why some may not wish to speak after such intimidatory tactics are used.

          I’d also ask, “How’s your Arabic?” because I’d like to have my story published in another language. Maybe even French given they are aware of how much Australia values the agreements they make.

          All that work passing laws, and then they are not effective because you can’t even access a means to make a complaint before they …… well, ‘outcome’ you for trying.

          Such people are poison to those who do actually have honor and respect for the laws that are passed to protect those less fortunate than the people who can call Police and have someone brutalised for not wishing to speak to them. With a lie of course, because that and the fraud and slander are their weapons of choice.

          Anyway, I’d like to discuss this further. As you can imagine, I have no doubt that my communications have been ‘compromised’ (to say the least lol). Police needing to have my tablet stolen to find out who I had been communicating with in the period when they weren’t aware I still had the documents. I don’t know if the man who was tampering with my communications was actually a public officer (I believe not) but he was sleeping with my wife before I was evicted from my home. He’s quite a funny guy when you think about his conduct, sending me pics of my naked wife asleep in a Motel room that I was paying for. And had I said anything???? Part of my ‘induced’ illness I assume lol

          Anyway, be happy to chat further about this R.R. Let me know what you think.

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          • You know, I was thinking about the way the State is using the Law Centre as a ‘Venus fly trap’ for those people who have been subjected to human rights abuses, and to ensure they are warned about any ‘impending problems’ so they can “edit” the legal narrative and ‘head em off at the pass’ so to speak.

            I don’t know of any other area of ‘medicine’ that requires such an organisation. The Cardiac Law Centre? Nope. The Osteo Law Centre? Nope.

            Sure the ‘practitioners’ in these areas are subject to the laws that exist, but they don’t actually have Law Centres set up to deal with that specific area of law. Mind you they don’t have a specific Act of Parliament written for the sole purpose of side stepping human rights either.

            There are organisations set up to deal with certain types of illnesses of course. I think of the Asbestos related injuries organisations and the like, who one would hope are lobbying and have an understanding of the laws relating to cases being brought against others for damages that have occurred.

            I can’t imagine that they would be throwing their ‘clients’ under a bus after conspiring with criminals who were seeking to minimize the damages payouts received by the victims of these diseases though. Not saying it isn’t happening, but imagine if someone blew the whistle on that sort of going on? And all would be exposed at some point surely? The ‘delays’ where people are dying before being compensated a concern…….. but they’re not actively trying to harm them to ensure they don’t get paid lol

            Whereas with Mental Health Law, the ‘client’ comes pre slandered and extremely vulnerable. With asbestos related injuries this is not the case. And the families tend to stand by their loved ones, rather than take ‘advice’ and turn on their own family members because of the way that conspiring is enabled by mental health law. Gaslighting of victims available in all areas, but the ‘experts’ in mental health are the elite squads in that regard. Openly telling people they will fuking destroy them (and their families) for trying to complain.

            I mean, you can’t blame people for seeing an opportunity and taking it right?

            Intoxication by deception, stupefying with intent to commit an indictable offence namely kidnapping, procuring the apprehension or detention of a person not suffering from a mental illness, forge and utter with statutory declarations, forge and utter with prescription written to conceal a criminal offence (intoxication by deception), …….the list goes on.

            What other area of medicine would require a Law Centre dedicated to such offending? I mean I look at the way the situation with Prof John Kearsley was dealt with, and it wasn’t the Oncology Law Centre who helped his victim. Police recognised that putting a 1/4 the amount of benzodiazepines I was ‘spiked’ with into someones drink to commit another offence, was an offence. Maybe if police were allowed to actively engaged in the offence with Kearsley they might have told the victim they didn’t have a copy of the Criminal Code, and that she would be arrested for having proof of the crime? Perhaps refuse to take the proof and tell the victim their was “insufficient evidence”?


            And I think about the SMO who wrote the prescription making the drugs I was ‘spiked’ with into my “Regular Medications” forcing objects into my mouth or anus when I had expressly denied consent. The acts documented in his ‘report’. Assaults not an issue when you have ‘implied consent’, even when the victim says “You do not have my consent to conduct this examination, and it will constitute an assault if you do”. Your right to bodily integrity falling on deaf ears when you can be fuking destroyed for trying to complain.

            There’s simply nothing that can’t be fixed post hoc with the ‘system’ of abuse the State has enabled here. Amazing what can be achieved when you can simply ignore any realities you don’t like, and forge ones that suit your purposes at the time. “life unworthy of living” looks very different depending on how much money you have.

            Given these facts, diligence will be required with the frail aged and disabled going forward. I think I can see some ‘regulatory capture’ being put in place. And the ‘deck of cards’ mental health labels (See Lt Col. Bill Kilgore in Apocalypse Now) which makes it all very easy needs examining in detail and the public made aware of the uses it can be put to. I think they may be shocked, though it seems many know, but are afraid to speak.

            Our politicians taking their election to mean they have carte blanche to do whatever they wish. At what point did that become the case? Where politicians need to support corrupt police before the victims that walk into their offices? They consider themselves to be at war with the people who elect them, rather than being their ‘representatives’. And covid providing a quick means to remove any and all human rights from the population at a minutes notice. They are now in a position where they know what strings to pull and when.

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          • “I note your concerns about privacy and surveillance and recommend Signal ( as one of the better platforms for safe communication.”

            I note the government here set up an app and then distributed it among Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs. Huge hauls of drugs confiscated. The COVID safe app which they advertised as being “solely for the purpose of tracking covid cases” was and is still being used by police to track individuals movements. They are of course breaking the law but whose going to do anything about it? And our Politicians would have been fully aware that this was going to be done when they passed the laws.

            These ‘breaches’ to catch criminals though. But what I can say is that they are using these ‘systems’ to ensure that citizens speaking non preferred truths can be put under surveillance.

            In some ways that worked to my advantage on one occasion. The State police concerned about the surveillance placed on the Mosques when I walked in and started speaking to the Imam about what was being done to me. I don’t suppose they were concerned about God watching them, but the Feds may have been an issue lol.

            It’s always good to know that your communications have been ‘intercepted’. In fact, I think the method of providing false and misleading information to such people tends to create a situation where their efforts result in a whole bunch of unnecessary and fruitless work.

            “Agents” or “Spies” on the other hand have their uses, as described by Sun Tzu in his final chapter. And I suspect that the use of my wife as such was of great benefit to these criminals trying to conceal their offending.

            Anyway, water under the bridge. I’m happy for that to occur Steve.

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  6. @Steve, Thank you and yes please provide my details to boans.

    @The Mad in America editorial team… Please cover the Diego Maradona trial, in which three doctors, a psychiatrist and two nurses stand accused of his death.

    @ boans… I have some form reacting to surveillance and while it is nowhere near what you’ve been embroiled in, it’s enough to enable me to have some sympathy with your plight. look forward to hearing from you.

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    • There was a program on last night about a young woman who it was claimed had committed suicide (gun owner, took photo half hour before holding the gun in the room where she was shot). Violent partner who was taking crack and drinking etc.

      I’m always skeptical about such comments after seeing how easily the Community Nurse made me into a monster with a ‘verbal’. My wife telling me she had said “no such thing”….. but it’s insurance to utter with at a later time. Police swearing a statement that I was drunk, when I haven’t touched alcohol for more than 20 years.

      Comment was made by her mother that she was taking anti depressants after a car accident where she broke her neck. Not because she was depressed. And how could someone with two kids take her own life? I got the impression that they thought that this was insurance against suicide, when as we know it actually increases the probability of it occurring..

      Two part program so i’ll wait to see what else they have to say about ‘spellbinding’ or ‘disinhibition’. Though I doubt that this will even get a mention.

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  7. Looks like the comment section got hijacked by the boans-rasselas dialogue. TLDR.
    I’m ok with it…..
    But I was hoping there’d be more discussion of Meghan Caughey gracing us with her self-expressive creative writing assignment….
    I’d have a mental illness, too, if a media news story could reduce me to tears….
    I think that crying over the “george floyd”, & “uvalde” type of propaganda stories is a measure not of strength and health, but rather of how brainwashed, controlled and manipulated we all are….
    So-called “mental health challenges” is just another fraudulent & deceptive euphemism for “mental illness”, and BOTH terms are used as control mechanisms by TPTB….
    As regards “Sandy Hook”, when the CT. State AG announced that he would NOT be releasing the final CT. State Police report, he claimed that his refusal was because if he did, “it would cause people to stop taking their meds”…..
    Most mass-casulaty school shootings happen BECAUSE of psychiatry & psych drugs, not in spite of them….

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    • Ah, I see. Americans redirect dialogue, Muslims “hijack” them huh? lol (the joke here may not be obvious. It relates to the apology by our Premier who described the two white Christian teenagers who threatened to behead his family as being akin to “Islamic Fundamentalists”. His hijacking of Muslims as scapegoats and “gratuitous Islamophobia” called out, he issued a quiet apology to the Muslim community. Good politics when you think about it)

      Seriously though;

      “I think that crying over the “george floyd”, & “uvalde” type of propaganda stories is a measure not of strength and health, but rather of how brainwashed, controlled and manipulated we all are….”

      I was wondering if Americans ever get to consider people in other parts of the world. Sure our media is awash with the Sandy Hook, George Floyd, Uvlade news …. and very rarely we see stuff from other parts of the world (one particular channel devoted to ‘other news’).

      What about the ‘mental patient’ killed by police with an improvised gas chamber in Brazil?

      Is this not part of the “manipulation”? If they are doing it in America, well can we really complain about it being done in Australia, given that we are not an ‘advanced’ liberal democracy? Though we are trying to conceal our human rights abuses to enable us to point fingers at others, in an attempt to make us look better.

      Point being, we don’t actually have human rights in Australia. They signed those agreements with no intention of ever abiding by them. They have passed laws that create the appearance of human rights protections, and then simply neglect their duty to act when they come across them. The system is set up in such a way as to ensure there is no avenue for complaint. Police threaten lawyers families and they hand over the ‘evidence/ proof’ they have of the breaches, and then throw their clients under a bus. You can be denied access to the protections of the law? Then what human rights could you possibly have?

      I note more money is being supplied to these ‘informant services’ (Community Legal Centres claimed to provide the underprivileged access to legal representation. Which is actually the bigger joke here) who are deceiving their ‘clients’ with claims they can be trusted, drafting complaints, and then forging and uttering with bizarre responses to enflame the slander of ‘mental patient’ already unlawfully released by the States “editing” of legal narratives.

      They forge letters from the Chief Psychiatrist? How insane does that sound? But of course is anyone prepared to check when to do so means their family will be threatened by Police (not wanting their misconduct and conspiring to be reported to the authorities under the mandatory reporting laws)? Respect and credit where credit is due, to those who did actually look and see, rather than actively engage in the gaslighting of a torture victim for these criminals. Obstructing the right to report to the corruption watchdog quite an offence to be committing. Still, they have ‘treatments’ for such poison in peoples hearts.

      “And God sends upon them a great delusion, that they might believe the lie”

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  8. Happy Bastille Day!

    Just imagine if all the revolutionaries were in their therapists’ offices, confessing their anger and punching pillows and screaming at them, and learning about Peer Values Instead of Violence.

    No storming the Bastille. No freeing the prisoners or seizing the gun power, no killing of the guards and parading their heads on pikes, and no tearing down the fortress brick by brick.


    (Duplicate Comment)

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    • We tend to rewrite (or “edit” being the euphemism for fraud) our history in Australia.

      If you look at our history with the indigenous population, you’d possibly wonder why they aren’t thanking us for our ‘interventions’.

      I wonder if workers would have ever got any ‘rights’ had it not been for the Russian revolution? early warning about where things might go without some ‘management’?

      Anyhow, Happy Bastille Day to you too Joshua. I’ll be taking a cake to the golf club today to celebrate my impending birthday. “Qu’ils mangent de la brioche”

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