To leave the year with a bang, and to kick off 2021 as the year prioritizing patient safety and informed consent, I authored an open letter to the FDA appealing their denial of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request number 2020-7319.
The letter requested all electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) safety studies, pre-market approval (PMA) applications, and electric current limits (product development protocols or PDP) submitted by March 27, 2019.
Knowing my own ECT outcomes, and having researched similar outcomes for a decade, I feel ECT presents an “imminent threat to the life or physical safety” of gravely disabled individuals, warranting expedited release of data. The FDA denied it, however, writing that I had not “demonstrated a compelling need.”
What an invitation! I dug into my ECT research database, drafting a letter with nearly 100 citations. Then, figuring a singular clarion call did not demonstrate a public’s desire to have more information, I invited others to co-sign my letter. By midnight of my deadline, 14 professional and paraprofessional organizations, 168 Americans, and 49 international citizens from countries whose medical device regulations rely in part on FDA decisions had signed on. Signatories included up to eight words describing their real-world data and real-world evidence regarding ECT’s post-market safety and adverse events.
I submitted the letter December 28, 2020. The perfect way to close 82 years of ECT use.
What’s the weirdest thing you’re looking forward to in 2021? Me? I’m testing and retesting a few hypotheses. My hypotheses are:
- The US FDA has no recorded safety studies (PMA) or electrical dosing protocols (PDP) for ECT use.
- ECT use is growing exponentially across America.
- American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers using false information.
- Some psychiatric facilities providing ECT are exploiting vulnerable patients desperate for quick symptom relief by offering ECT with increasing frequency and cashing in on private insurance, Medicaid, and Medicare’s easy reimbursement policies which pay even without proper documentation.
- ECT clinics are capitalizing on ECT use because there are zero systemic accountability measures in place to prevent it.
ECT use without safety testing or universally regulated electrical dosing protocols
I arrived at my first hypothesis after discovering the FDA convened way back in 2011 to discuss the reclassification of ECT devices. The Washington Post reported that the chairman of the Neurological Devices Panel, Thomas G. Brott, a neurologist, said “he was amazed that ‘essentially no research had been done on ECT’s effects using functional MRI imaging, repeated brain wave (EEG) studies, or autopsy examinations of patients. I tried to look and saw very little. I concluded that the evidence is not there to decide either way.’” Consequently, the panel determined that ECT devices needed to undergo the same rigorous testing as new medical devices.
Even though the 2011 FDA device panel recommended PMA and PDP, requiring ECT device manufacturers meet the criteria for new medical devices by developing protocols which elicit the least amount of injury, the 2018 FDA device panel decided safety testing and safety limits were not necessary, and chose to reclassify the devices without receiving PMA or PDP. Instead they extended the deadline for PMA and PDP to March 26, 2019.
According to their own rules, the FDA must complete several tasks to reclassify medical devices. However, the final ruling of reclassification for ECT devices occurred without completing Task B, a public advisory committee (or panel) meeting to solicit input from panelists. The FDA also omitted Task C, issuing a proposed classification order so that the public could comment on the proposed order and reclassification.
Instead, the closed meeting occurred the day before the federal shut-down, without public input. The FDA neurological device panel reclassified ECT devices, approving them for use on children 13 and older with an intended use “for treating catatonia or a severe major depressive episode (MDE) associated with major depressive disorder (MDD) or bipolar disorder (BPD) in patients age 13 years and older who are treatment-resistant or who require a rapid response due to the severity of their psychiatric or medical condition.”
December 26, 2020 marked the two-year anniversary of the FDA’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health (CDRH) reclassification of the ECT devices. That reclassification has opened a pandora’s box of unstudied longitudinal neurological fallout in America’s vulnerable youth.
ECT use growing exponentially across America
I developed my second hypothesis because I began meeting an increasing number of people seeking help for problems they developed during or after ECT. To my surprise, more men were seeking ECT recovery help (historically, women receive 70% of ECT treatments in America).
In states like California, the only thing necessary to qualify for ECT is to not have satisfactory improvement after trialing two antidepressants. Psychiatry is now advocating ECT use as a first line of treatment in “emergency situations.”
To test my second hypothesis, I conducted an audit of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration’s (SAMHSA) 2020 National Directory of Mental Health Treatment Facilities, comparing it with the 2018 directory. I discovered that since the FDA’s 2018 decision to reclassify ECT devices, there’s been a 34% increase in the number of American hospitals providing unregulated ECT. New clinics providing unregulated ECT include pediatric psychiatric facilities. (I use the word “unregulated” because though a few states loosely monitor ECT on a passive basis, with the exception of Texas, ECT use has never been routinely audited. Ever.) I eagerly await a SAMSA’s 2021 facility directory to re-confirm my hypothesis.
American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers
Since the ‘70s, Americans have heard psychiatry’s insistence that ECT is safe and effective, despite irrefutable evidence to the contrary. Long before device reclassification, psychiatrists working as paid medical device reps at hospitals and other research facilities began marketing ECT directly to consumers through mainstream media, Facebook Q&A sessions, and other efforts, even though “A Class III device that fails to meet PMA requirements is considered to be adulterated under Section 501(f) of the act and cannot be marketed.”
My third hypothesis revolves around the evolving inaccuracy of information used in marketing ECT directly to consumers. It appears marketing ECT as “safe and effective” is no longer sufficient. Having repeated that false mantra in the first or second paragraph of nearly every article written about ECT without FDA intervention in previous marketing efforts, some ECT providers are emboldened to make outlandish claims.
As a result, psychiatrists receiving honorariums from device manufacturers create patient information documents and facilitate public discussions laced with false ECT information. Bad information includes statements that ECT involves “small electric currents,” “a controlled seizure,” and “triggering mature neurons to sprout new axons and behave like young neurons.”
Psychiatry’s claim that 800-900 milliamperes (mA) current is “small” highlights how little they understand electricity’s physics. Depending on device settings, the Thymatron machine will give brief pulses of 900 mA for up to eight seconds. Even a partial understanding of how the body responds to 900 mA current provides a window of understanding into unfounded promises which have no place in evidence-based medicine. But studying neuropathology of repeatedly exposing the human brain to high field-strength electricity is not required to qualify for advising patients about ECT.
Consequently hospitals, psychiatrists, doctors, nurses, and counselors echo promises likely without realizing they’re spreading misinformation. Just like the average American, some medical providers assume ECT information written by psychiatrists receiving reimbursements for providing it is true and accurate. After all, accuracy is normally regulated by the FDA and medical boards.
Psychiatry is capitalizing on providing bad information to patients desperate for quick symptom relief
Unregulated information on ECT allows psychiatry to make public claims of safety and efficacy. For example, my fourth hypothesis springs from Dr. Konoy Mandal, a psychiatrist who recently opened a new ECT clinic at the University of Colorado’s Refractory Depression Clinic in Longmont. According to Mandal, “One has to remember ECT was initially developed when electricity was not able to be managed as it is now. […] Now, we can mimic the way neurons communicate between themselves and know where to aim, thanks to PET and Functional MRI scans. And today’s ECT also has 1% of the side-effects of ECT even 10 years ago.”
The idea that ECT’s electrical output can be managed, controlled, or “aimed” better than ten years ago and that ECT devices can mimic how neurons communicate with each other is preposterous. We are still talking about medical devices which use up to 900 mA electrical charge for up to eight seconds on a human brain made of 72% water with no internal rubber bumpers or wires.
I’ve researched ECT for more than a decade. There are no neuropathology studies published in the last ten years supporting Dr. Mandal’s claims. His referencing the evolving ability to use modern brain scanning techniques to somehow guide psychiatrists in aiming the current is so ludicrous that not a single hospital wastes time or resources to routinely give ECT recipients a PET or fMRI scan for the purpose of aiming ECT current.
Considering California’s hospital financial transparency reports, ECT’s average reimbursement rate is $3,400 per treatment. When analyzing outrageous claims which cannot be supported by research, one can only conclude they were made for institutional-promotional purposes. Is it any wonder Dr. Konoy Mandal contacted his local media outlet, making wild claims of safety and efficacy to market a treatment with no regulatory limits?
Unfounded ECT claims are worse than claims made by nutritional supplement companies because the FDA doesn’t regulate or fine for erroneous ECT information, leaving patients and their family members vulnerable to emotionally driven, hope-filled promises of success and safety.
When discussing ECT with desperate patients and their equally desperate loved ones, psychiatry focuses attention on treatment benefits. Any concerns regarding risks are addressed by focusing on the controversy of stigmatizing media portrayals rather than discussing the real controversy: ECT was never safety tested using modern clinical parameters on humans and has zero regulated electrical dosing protocols.
Doctors do not admit that ECT is more an art than evidence-based medicine. All psychiatrists giving ECT feel they are Picassos. Patient outcomes lead me to wonder if perhaps some of these artistic psychiatrists are more akin to Florence Foster Jenkins, myopically glamorizing the immediate benefits of ECT while completely ignoring long-term consequences on the quality of life after ECT.
Instead, hospitals and doctors choose not to assess ECT’s severe effects in every patient, eagerly proceeding with business as usual. ECT is an unregulated multi-billion-dollar industry. They bank on the fact that the public will continue believing the only thing controversial about ECT is its historically accurate portrayal in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.” Psychiatry knows they can reassure people that ECT’s safer now that it’s given under general anesthesia with medication to paralyze the body and prevent broken bones. An escalating number of psychiatric treatment facilities follow this lead.
Hospitals marketing directly to consumers and the resulting revenue explains why I eagerly anticipate SAMHSA’s publication of their 2021 facility directory. How many new facilities are brushing off their old ECT machines or purchasing new ones to take advantage of this easy funding source? We’ll soon find out!
Where is the proof that ECT is safe?
After approving the reclassification without receiving PMA and PDP, the 2018 FDA device panel required all ECT device manufactures to submit PMA and PDP on or before March 26, 2019. Fascinated that the FDA would establish a solid deadline for this data, I found myself genuinely curious about the safety testing and electrical dosing recommendations. I wanted to learn more about the neuropathology studies submitted by the FDA’s “deadline” (I put the word deadline in quotes because ECT continues even if device manufacturers do not submit the required information).
I checked to see if the records I wanted were digitally available in the FDA’s Reading Room. A void of information convinced me to submit a request to FDA Director Carlos Pena for the expedited release of PMA and PDP submitted to the FDA between December 26, 2018 and March 27, 2019, per the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). In part, my letter (dated October 9, 2020) stated:
I request that FOIA fees for electroconvulsive therapy’s PMA and PDP submitted by March 27, 2019 be waived because the disclosure of requested information is in the public interest. It will significantly enhance patient, caregiver, and public understanding of ECT’s safety and efficacy which will in turn help patients, medical providers and the general public understand the operations and activities of the FDA.
I request expedited processing pursuant to the FOIA and 21 C.F.R. 20.44 because recently Irving Kirsch, Associate Director of the Program in Placebo Studies and lecturer in medicine at the Harvard Medical School and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center co-authored “Electroconvulsive Therapy for Depression: A Review of the Quality of ECT versus Sham ECT Trials and Meta-Analyses” which concluded:
“The quality of most [Sham] ECT–ECT studies is so poor that the meta-analyses were wrong to conclude anything about efficacy, either during or beyond the treatment period. There is no evidence that ECT is effective for its target demographic—older women, or its target diagnostic group—severely depressed people, or for suicidal people, people who have unsuccessfully tried other treatments first, involuntary patients, or children and adolescents. Given the high risk of permanent memory loss and the small mortality risk, this longstanding failure to determine whether or not ECT works means that its use should be immediately suspended until a series of well designed, randomized, placebo-controlled studies have investigated whether there really are any significant benefits against which the proven significant risks can be weighed.”
Given Dr. Kirsch’s vast experience in placebo trial construction and assessment, he and his coauthors concluded that continued ECT use is an imminent danger to human life and morbidity warranting immediate suspension. There is a demonstrated urgency to inform the public. This urgent need to inform the public will enhance informed consent for people with severe mental illness considering ECT, caregivers, medical and rehabilitation providers. Since nations around the world look to the FDA to establish safety measures, disclosing PMA and PDP will impact informed consent for more than two million people receiving ECT internationally each year—an estimate under-oath by Dr. Harold Sackeim. One in five people receiving treatment for mental illness and their family members constitute a substantial number of Americans potentially interested in ECT’s PMA and PDP data.
I received their initial reply on October 14, 2020. It stated, in part:
Due to an increase in the number of incoming requests, we may be unable to comply with the twenty-working-day time limit in this case, as well as the ten additional days provided by the FOIA. The actual processing time will depend on the complexity of your request and whether sensitive records, voluminous records, extensive search, and/or consultation with other HHS components or other executive branch agencies are involved. Please note that requests for medical device approval records (e.g. 510K, PMA, DEN) may take up to 18 to 24 months to process.
At the time, I was not concerned by the automated response. These are unprecedented times. I figured the response was likely sent to everyone who submits a FOIA as a placeholder until the FDA can read the request in its entirety. My original letter explained why I felt my FOIA request deserved expedited action based on the devices’ involving “an imminent threat to the life or physical safety of an individual,” or in the case of a request made by “a person primarily engaged in disseminating information, urgency to inform the public concerning actual or alleged Federal Government activity.”
I waited, patiently. Eager to share the information with other individuals who prioritize patient safety.
Imagine my surprise when I received their email on October 21, 2020, which stated, in part:
You have not demonstrated a compelling need that involves an imminent threat to the life or physical safety of an individual. Neither have you demonstrated that there exists an urgency to inform the public concerning actual or alleged Federal Government activity. Therefore, I am denying your request for expedited processing. The responding agency office will process your request in the order in which it was received.
People deserve to understand ECT’s risks
I took the FDA’s response as an invitation to provide nearly 100 citations demonstrating the urgency to inform the public and wrote an open letter to appeal their decision. I am but a small voice in this effort to raise awareness about the long-term consequences of ECT. For that reason, I invited signatories who share my desire for access to safety testing and dosing protocols to add their voices.
Fourteen American and international organizations formally signed my open letter to the FDA: Connecticut Legal Rights Project; Law Project for Psychiatric Rights; Disability Rights—Vermont; National Association for Rights Protection and Advocacy; MindFreedom, International; Mental Patients Liberation Alliance; MadFreedom, Inc., Legal Guidance; Global Wellness Warriors; Ruh Global Impact; Hopeworx, Inc.; Progressive Voices; Consumers Health Freedom Coalition and OCSC.
Two hundred twenty-five individuals also signed. Each individual was given the opportunity to submit up to eight words describing their experience with ECT either as a recipient, caregiver/friend of ECT recipients, or professional who works with ECT recipients. Read the independent submissions yourself. It is astounding to count the number of people with real-world experience living life after ECT (or witnessing it first-hand) who describe ECT as torture, barbaric, or inhumane treatment with horrific unforeseen consequences. Many call out the lack of informed consent.
Information the FOIA request provides will help the American public understand ECT’s real controversy. Perhaps Americans will use the information to demand US hospitals prioritize patient safety concerns by conducting a formal nationwide inquiry and independent review of ECT use, like what’s happening in the United Kingdom. In the UK, 40 professionals, paraprofessionals, ECT survivors, and caregivers signed a different letter calling for a formal inquiry into ECT use and related patient safety concerns. The United Kingdom’s mental health advocacy organizations Mind (the UK’s largest mental health charity), The Royal College of Nursing, The Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry, The Association of Clinical Psychologists, The National Counselling Society, Headway (the brain injury association), and Psychologists for Social Change support the formal inquiry.
At this time, more than 12,300 people have signed my international petition to standardize, regulate, audit ECT and provide comprehensive brain injury assessment/rehabilitation. As people begin realizing the magnitude of ECT use and its resulting injury, more will demand comprehensive brain injury assessment and rehabilitation as indicated for every ECT recipient.
Hope for the future
Increasing awareness of ECT’s critical issues gives me hope that all ECT recipients will break through current barriers and access necessary rehabilitative supports. Is it odd I ring in the new year with an open FOIA request letter to the FDA with more than 200 signatures? Yes. Is it even more odd I eagerly await SAMHSA’s national facility directory release? Yes. But if I can get my hands on the data, I believe it will be a monumental step towards America’s prioritizing patient safety. That will improve quality of life for all ECT recipients for the first time in 83 years of ECT use. Hopefully, the FDA will expedite this process.
Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.
Sarah, thanks so much for your incredible work to bring the harms of ECT to a broader light. My mother and I both had ECT many times–because doctors told us it was the only way out. I’m fine–as far as I know–but Mom suffered terribly, mostly from memory loss. How anyone thinks provoking a seizure is a good idea is beyond imagining. Your bravery and persistence are much needed and appreciated. Blessings on your work.
I’m so sorry to hear about your mother. I’m grateful you’re fine at this time. The diverse outcome dichotomy really speaks to there being no universal protocols. Thank you for your kind feedback Ann.
Ms. Sarah Hancock,
Please look at many members of the public’s reaction to a former lawyer filing a lawsuit related to ECT on reddit. This link is not even the original AMA, I think that was removed.
Also, take a look at the following thread again on reddit that was posted later:An AMA about an attorney bringing a lawsuit against ECT backfires disastrously.
The reason I posted these links is because, I wanted you to know this is how they fire back against you. The lawyer who was fighting this case was also a poster on MIA.
Yes, I watched the Reddit mess unfold. That’s what tends to happen when people are unprepared to answer questions. I’m well aware of the harassment that takes place when people speak about ECT harms. Follow me on Twitter (@PsychRecovery) & watch it unfold. Though I interact with decorum, there’s a group of psychiatrists who simply harass people sharing their real world experiences of prescribed harm. Personally, I find publicly harassing behavior a window into the realities of what happens behind their closed clinic doors.
Psych is quite willing to sound like morons because many of their adherents are also. It operates obviously like religious or political sides. If you pretend to be a doctor merely by your opinion, it will definitely generate anything and everything possible to protect your turf, and your individual identity. Which of course is a good thing.
They will without fail, ALWAYS bring up the guy that jumped out of a window,:) not the millions of kids and whoever else being labeled and drugged.
I checked out the link you posted and went down the rabbit hole of this Reddit discussion. I don’t think anti-ECT activists should worry about this type of response. What I mostly saw was a group of psychiatrists and neurologists acting defensive (ie feeling threatened). Their unconvincing arguments were as follows:
* Ad hominem attacks on the original poster: “He’s an ambulance chaser”; “He doesn’t understand science”; “He works for his daddy’s law firm.”
* Insistence that ECT is safe and effective. When other commenters point to damage to themselves or loved ones, they reply that “the risks are well known, but people give informed consent, so it’s OK.”
* When other posters point out that informed consent often doesn’t happen and some ECT is done involuntarily, they reply that “involuntary treatment never happens; the doctors would be sent to jail.” Or that “it only happens when someone is so far gone they are too sick to give consent, so it’s OK to give it to them.”
* When a poster talks about having lost more than 35 years of memories due to ECT, they say in effect, “Well, isn’t that better than being crazy?” or “You’re an outlier.”
In other words, a gaslighting festival.
Who was it that said, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”?
Yes and the reason they never want to engage in a public televised debate. They are not scientists, nor doctors, nor politicians. They serve a role similar to cops or dog catchers, but if I got caught by a dog catcher, I still have a chance. If by a cop, I get a fair trial.
And what shrink or shrink student would go on reddit lol. As soon as they enter psych school they have entered into being in debate with themselves.
I appreciate your overview.
(It is Mahatma Ghandi that you quoted. I’ve used it before.)
Fantastic article Sarah, So glad you wrote it and are continuing so diligently in raising awareness about ECT and fighting for the opportunity of those who haven’t even received it yet to get a chance to make a real decision about it. Its really beyond comprehension this is going on in the capacity it is, I just cant believe it.
I am curious if you have been in contact with the ombudsman, i got their information when i submitted my FOIA and they are supposed to advocate for the honest fulfillment of the work. I remember reading Peter Gotzsche had some success with the same process in his book.
Thank you for your kind feedback James. Yes, thank you for the advice. This morning I reached out to the liasion.
American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers using false information.
American psychiatric facilities are marketing ECT directly to consumers, using false information.
With the comma there can be no legal conflagration that you’re saying that the consumer is using false information rather than the company that IS; not only using it but exploiting the need for relief, the need for parental consent, the need for inequality in housing: true medical needs, nutritional…..
If only I could remember by editing skills…
Sarah, thank you for being brave and an active individual.
If not for people like you, being active on the ground, nothing
would change. However, it WILL change.
Directly related due to people such as yourself.
Thank you Sam for your kind feedback. I believe our collective efforts will go far in improving safety and long-term outcomes.
I agreee with you. I don’t think the fallout of their efforts has hit them yet. It’s coming.
“Now, we can mimic the way neurons communicate between themselves and know where to aim, thanks to PET and Functional MRI scans. And today’s ECT also has 1% of the side-effects of ECT even 10 years ago.”
It’s shocking someone would say such a profoundly stupid thing, publicly yet.
I thought it was a chemical issue in the brain which meds restore.
So how then does electricity come into that? Oh I bet those “chemicals” get thrown all out of whack as they do with drugs. If you get stun gunned, definitely something will be achieved.
A taser on the brain. Amazing technology and isn’t it strange that no treatment “works” for strokes, or alzheimers, or MS, all brain/body related, yet they have all these great treatments for people’s woes.
I’m sure over time his ludicrous statement will disappear so it might be good to make verified copies.
It really was an outrageous, unfounded statement. It reminded me of the old snake oil salesmen who’d say anything to make a sell.
I have no doubt that there are no RCTs proving the efficacy and safety of electroshock therapy. I’m certain it has harmed people. But. An elderly relative with dementia recently was in a psychiatric hospital agitated, depressed, suicidal, convinced the hospital and his son were conspiring to cut out his organs and sell them to the mafia for millions of dollars. He threatened violence. Nothing was helping and his psychiatrist suggested electroshock therapy. He consented to it and his desperate family agreed. It worked. His delusions disappeared, he calmed down, his depression lifted and he was able to be transferred to a memory care center. Several months later the family has observed no bad after effects. I’ve heard of other cases like this. Maybe the reason ECT has persisted is because it is sometimes effective.
There are always these situations where people claim to have benefitted from these types of treatments. Are we really being honest with ourselves? Is shocking the human brain when we have no idea if it will cause Status epilepticus or some other torturous and permanent effects the best option? Or even an option at all, i would say there is a fair argument to call this treatment torture, the only argument you could make would be as to if you willfully participate can it be torture. Can one torture themselves? Id say yes they can, and especially if its under the advisement of a physician or family and friends.
It seems to me more often than not people are more preoccupied with trying to eliminate the unpleasantness they are experiencing than excepting it as a part of a natural lifecycle. I am not sure how something completely unnatural and damaging to the human body would ever be a way to rectify that.
I wonder what it is like to live in the head of this person who underwent ECT, and I wonder what their life will be like after the ‘therapeutic’ effects wear off and the Doc, says, ‘Well it looks like its time for another round’
Is it informed consent if one has dementia? I thought dementia as being seen by shrinks as not having full cognitive ability.
So, a guy who has dementia and thinks people are “conspiring to cut out his organs and sell them to the mafia” is considered to have “capacity” to consent to ECT? How does that make sense? So the brain damage caused him to be less “agitated”, less of a problem? Happy family, happy shrink. Dazed patient with more memory loss added to dementia- but perhaps he’s “forgotten” his delusions. With each jolt he will forget what he “signed up for”.
This is not “treatment”. It is torture. It continues bc it brain damaged unruly patients into silence, makes them easier to handle and it makes big bucks for shock docs and hospitals. A few escape with less severe injuries bc of lower dose or numbers. It needs to be banned, not “regulated”, even if that’s at least a start.
I was experiencing akathisia from AD drug WD, misinterpreted as “agitated depression”. Impaired by psych drugs I signed uninformed consent. I lost 30 years of memories and 27 IQ points, my career of 30 years, and all the books, movies, tv shows, important events that made up my life. The lunatics who did this to me wrote “quieter”, “less agitated”, on my forms. No cognitive testing. They continue disabling ppl every MWF at RUH hospital in Saskatchewan, Canada, paddles held by the most ignorant and dangerous “doctors” to stumble around the planet. They belong in jail.
I’m so sorry. Your experience sounds absolutely horrible. I have no doubt there are extensive problems with ECT. I was just describing my family’s experience, which wasn’t bad.
I’m relieved to hear your perpective of your family’s experience “wasn’t bad.” Given the extent of damages and death I’ve witnessed in other ECT recepients, I can only say expressing my relief at the improved circumstances of a man unable to give informed consent feels akin to expressing relief when someone wins a round of Russian Roulette. ECT is the medically prescribed equivalent Until its standardized using neuropathology animal studies to establish device dosing protocols.
I am curious what your elderly relative thought about his situation? Is the situation such that he is more stable, to himself and others? Or is it that everyone else must speak for him due to his predicament? It is interesting that a person with dementia had to additionally be transferred to a ‘memory care clinic’.
It is interesting, and frankly tragic, how we all have to needle our way through the great ‘risk/benefit ratio’. I support freedom of speech for the ‘benefit’ just as I do the ‘risk’, just as I do for the amalgamations and the none of the aboves. It’s all very tricky.
I agree about the consent, but he wasn’t so demented that he didn’t basically understand. The man I’m talking about who underwent ECT was in a state of terror. He not only threatened violence, but actually attacked people a couple of times. He didn’t experience any pain. He wasn’t tortured. I was as skeptical as anyone about the supposed benefits of something that makes little sense. But it worked. And this man’s quality of life improved immensely.
Marie, using a hammer might have “worked” also. This man’s situation would be rare and like everything, have
unique causes. I know nothing about what else was tried.
Since psychiatry does not listen to “anecdotal” and deems them not reliable, one would think that if family or client report that something was “better”, they would ignore that too. It’s amazing that they listen to the accounts of “better”, but not of being damaged.
What they do is use examples such as these to actually pretend it’s a “treatment”
I know exactly who they offer these “treatments” to, who they suggest it for. If people are severely “depressed”, whatever is sitting in psych’s dark basement of draconian methods, might be pulled out, shown and they could say,
“gee we have this lightning machine that does something to the brain, which sometimes results in the brain losing it’s oomph. But it’s not a fix and has bad effects due to it bombarding every part of the brain. Do you want to try this?”
But then the question remains. If I am so depressed, am I just desperate to feel different? Are others around me desperate?
And again, I think drugs are the invisible draconian brain scramblers, with ECT being the visible one.
It is the “only option” “last resort” thing that leads to more than regular use. It is horrible practice and is presented to the public as “last resort” each time. The public doesn’t even understand that the woman, the teen, the gramma that received it was not offered to be helped to achieve a different life, get out of a bad family, job, boring soul killing marriage.
I understand and if it truly helped him, that’s good. But there seem to be a lot of negative complaints about the harms of this and they should be investigated seriously. Many of the people who seem to have been damaged by these treatments are in no position to fend for themselves. They cannot speak the sophisticated language of doctors, can’t keep quoting X and Y study and they only have their experiences to share. They can be easily degraded and dismissed because they’re the ones labelled with psych labels (no matter what their original suffering was).
Very interesting to say the least, I myself was harmed by an electrical treatment and its been absolutely horrific. So its hard for me to believe that someone could benefit without the harm, but it may be possible. I wish we knew more about the brain so we could tell the difference. It can be hard to understand why we tamper with the brain so much when we understand just slightly more than nothing about it.
Thank you for sharing.
Sarah, you’re a gem. Thank you!
It is good to see this is still an issue in this community!
My group submitted a bill to the California legislature that would have made the use of ECT a felony crime, but it died with the arrival of COVID.
I tried to get data on usage rates or outcomes and could not find it using normal channels, though the online space is full (if not actually congested) with similar reports from various California agencies. Most of the reports seem to be concerned with money flows. Typical.
Interesting that you are also seeking California data. The only readily available data on ECT that i could find is the OSHPD financial transparency reports. But only 6 of 27 hospitals filled in the ECT line item.
Wow! Well, that’s worth a look anyway.
Well done, all around. Very interesting. I followed on Twitter, and good-looking website.
I noticed one of your ‘signatories’ says ‘life transforming in a very good way’.
I do wonder how a ‘placebo-controlled’ ECT study would work. I have a feeling I’d be wary of being a test-subject, either way. And how ‘confounding variables’ would be confidently handled, without preventing all those ‘complex’ people from entering in the first place, as so often happens.
Abram Hoffer, orthomolecular psychiatrist, used ECT early in his career. He used high-dose nutrients along with it and didn’t recommend it without that approach. From what I can tell, he abandoned the technique.
An overall lovely book, Ketamine and Depression, is written by Dr. Hyde. I have gained immensely from ketamine and this work. However, he says that ECT has been the ‘quickest and most effective treatment for treatment-resistant depression in (X) years’. And that ketamine is the most exciting breakthrough in depression in multiple decades. Then briefly mentions ECT’s quick relapse rates and (usually) short-term memory loss. (Apparently unconscious of most of your citations, activist groups, and testimonies; as well as clinical nutrition and, hell, any ‘effective’ psychosocial methods, although he deals with them some as part of a ‘comprehensive plan’). He notes ECT series given (by his prescription or others) that go up to over 100 sessions, as I believe I saw happened to you. It is interesting how they are often pushed onwards, ever hoping for the switch to be turned, so to speak. I find this similar to ‘antipsychotic’ use and other conventional pharmaceuticals. Press the same buttons over and over, maybe a slight tweak here and there, or a different ‘class’, and surely the answer is just around the corner.
Anyways, I hope I see the further fruits of your extensive and devoted labors.
Tôi là Mario Draghi, hiện đang là 1 chuyên gia giao dịch sàn forex nhiều năm và hiện đang là trader của công ty BRKV
Waodate quá hay luôn, mọi người tham gia thử nào, nơi hẹn hò chuyên viên và chuyên gia hàng đầu,