Reclaiming Humanity

Greg Benson
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Now that biological psychiatry has been discredited, I am championing a pro-suffering cultural shift.  It is time to stop pretending that, with the assistance of hoped-for medical “miracles,” we can eliminate everything we are afraid of.  It is time that we get over ourselves and appreciate that a full existence as humans is fleeting and full of pain, suffering . . . and beauty.

It is time we stop stigmatizing suffering and engage in our daily lives.  It is time we get up and get on with being human.  It is time to work as a community on things that actually matter. Poverty, public spaces conducive to congregation, art and play, et cetera. We need places where people can pass through, heal from, overcome and learn from intense experiences.  Drug-based psychiatric “treatment” is evidence that our social fabric is fraying because our communities are not engaged in much of anything.  We are not engaged in collective purpose or shared values, and the psych-industry’s presentation of “treatment” becomes something people go along with, out of a lack of choice, rather than face suffering in isolation.

Psychiatric disease-model “treatment” isn’t destroying the bodies of our children and eroding the potential of our communities because people believe in it.  We know it doesn’t make a lot of sense to consume drugs daily. We know that disease-model “treatment” for so-called “mental illness” is to be avoided.

Why, then, do we accept a reliance on drugs that lower white blood cell counts, cause diabetes, contribute to violent behavior, cause arrhythmia, and cause sexual dysfunction?  Why – when research has failed to find it and the supposed treatments don’t work – do we accept that a person “might have a chemical imbalance” when their experience of the world, or their behavior, is inconvenient?

On August 28, 2013 Thomas Insel, the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, dealt what should have been a fatal blow to the underpinnings of biological psychiatry when he wrote;

“Recently, results from several studies suggested that these medications may be less effective for the outcomes that matter most to people . . .  antipsychotic medication, which seemed so important in the early phase of psychosis, appeared to worsen prospects for recovery over the long-term.” (Insel, Thomas.  “Director’s Blog: Antipsychotics: Taking the Long View).

Bio-psychiatry is dead and has been intellectually dead ever since its widespread adoption as a medical discipline.  Biological psychiatrists are admitting what psych survivors have long been saying.  Society ought to lend an ear.  The conceptual underpinnings of psychiatry lack validity.  After one hundred years we have failed to root out the biological causality of hypothesized “mental illness,” and drug-based “services” have been found to have tragic outcomes by the very people whose purview the “services” are under.

If we do nothing differently, in one hundred years people will wonder why we stood by while kids developed diabetes.  People will be dismayed that we allowed the exponential growth of a system whose very promoters, practitioners, and directors conceded is based on an unproven theory and whose validated outcomes include a twenty-five year loss of lifespan for its customers. So, with psychiatry so fully discredited, why is it still with us?

My mind has been to harrowing places, where loneliness, fear, and the bewildering intensity of it all brought me to my knees.  Since then, on both voluntary and paid bases I’ve sat with people in the midst of comparable experiences, either not encouraging or actively discouraging intervention with psych drugs.  I’m glad I did it; if you can sit with and through terror – your own or someone else’s – you can do just about anything.

But I have to admit that over the past few months my need for self-preservation required me to avoid these types of interactions.  It is hard for me to admit this, but honesty compels me to acknowledge that this avoidance is related to the force which drives biological psychiatry.  It would be hard for me to blame others’ failures to confront these challenges, knowing that I have gone to the limit of my ability to do it.
Do we need to continue giving power to a phony industry by fighting it through the lens of it being so sad that so many have been brainwashed into believing in it?  No one believes in biological psychiatry.  There is a powerful distinction between accepting or going along with a practice, and believing in it.

Assignment of blame will not lift us from our profound cultural crisis. This is a conversation about fearing death and loneliness.  This is about the self-contempt I feel when I live as a tourist in the ghettos of Connecticut.  It is about needing to be loved and needed by others.  This is a conversation about life’s fragility and the reality that being human can be horrible.  A conversation about doing something as a civilization that has never been done consistently on a large scale.  A collective commitment to the well-being of each and every member of society.

It is about not seeing suffering and struggle as signs of deficiency and aberrance, but rather as part of life fully lived.  It is about reclaiming the right to be human, and celebrating the experience.

If I blame psychiatry now it is for enabling me to avoid grappling with the scary aspects of life.  If I blame psychiatry it is for approving my lack of optimism, and encouraging me to replace inner torment with psych-drugged malaise.  I blame psychiatry for shielding me from self-responsibility, when I asked to be shielded from self-responsibility.

This conversation is, ultimately, about not knowing, and a willingness to not know; not knowing what the future has in store or what the answer to all the things we’re afraid of is. It is about being willing to carry on the adventure together.  Indeed, history is full of such stories of triumph; a triumph we currently cede to the failed promises of a discredited profession.

114 COMMENTS

      • The general public is mislead by a multi billion-dollar a year child drugging industry that a diagnoses of “mental disorder” (ADHD, Bi-Polar, Social Anxiety Disorder) are medical diseases or illnesses.

        We know this is a fraud. That no child has a brain scan, blood test, X-Ray or any evidence of physical abnormality to verify they are “ill” or “diseased.”

        Talk to someone on the street, ask them what causes depression, most everyone will say low serotonin.

        • “Talk to someone on the street, ask them what causes depression, most everyone will say low serotonin.”

          Really? So that’s what psychiatry did with all it’s propaganda power.

          Things have changed – when I was a kid people got depressed from bad things happening in their life. I guess now you have to shoot up some anti-serotonin to get depressed according to the shrinks.
          ..
          When I was still suffering from a schizophrenic condition , I occasionally got depressed, I remember it a s a very nice protective feeling sort of helped to insulate me and soothe me for a while, once in a while.
          Some people used to say “Have yourself a depression day!” I agree – it’s good for you.

          I really hope people here will begin to understand what “a pro-suffering cultural shift” really means.

  1. Direct, clear, passionate…overall, terrific! Yes, moving forward into the unknown, scary and exciting, our opportunity to create just as we prefer.

    I especially love this:

    “If I blame psychiatry now it is for enabling me to avoid grappling with the scary aspects of life. If I blame psychiatry it is for approving my lack of optimism, and encouraging me to replace inner torment with psych-drugged malaise. I blame psychiatry for shielding me from self-responsibility, when I asked to be shielded from self-responsibility.”

    Spot on. Time to face life head-on, on our own terms. Now it’s our turn to create a more honest and understanding society, from our authentic humanity. Let’s see what happens. You have strengthened my optimism and brightened the vision. Thank you.

  2. Greg- great post! Really insightful and honest. Thank you.
    Your points about stigmatizing suffering and shielding people from self-responsibility are profoundly important.
    I would suggest that your statements re: the death of bio-psych are greatly exaggerated (perhaps hopeful?). The bio-psych narrative, suffering & responsibility avoidant, “take this pill to be happy and lose weight now” is deeply ingrained in our culture.

  3. Greg, I think you have identified the problem very well. I agree with everything you say, and I think the ideas you put out there are insightful and true.

    But we have to work on the solutions too. I know, I know, I always sound so critical, but it just doesn’t make sense that talking to one another, preaching to the choir, is going to make much difference. We have to be out in the world, bringing our message to ordinary people. We have to make those people see that they too are threatened by psychiatric power.

    If we don’t, nothing will change.

    • I’ve got a story that will make that clear. It points out how even the daughter of the head of the investment committee of the board of pensions for a major US religion can run into wealthy child molesters and a psychopathic pastor, who wants to aid and abet his wealthy alleged child molester friends in covering up their child molestation hobby, or maybe the pastor was the abuser? I only know at whose home the abuse took place, not who was the actual molester. Maybe my child will remember some day?

      Oh, I was in denial of the abuse initially, but now the medical evidence has been turned over to me, so I can no longer be in denial. Part of why I was having difficulty in overcoming my denial was because I’d broken a bone 4 days after my doctor expressed concerns of the abuse and I had been put on a bad drug cocktail. Plus, the alleged child molesters were board members of my child’s “school for gifted children.” One does not innately assume board members of a school will be child molesters.

      Nonetheless, to help cover up the abuse of my child, the pastor upsets this nice Christian mommy by denying her other child a baptism, a pastoral sin marked throughout eternity with a “Never Forget” mantra, because this pastoral sin occurred at the exact moment the second plane hit the second World Trade Center building on 9.11.2001. I do now believe God did indeed have reason to be miffed with many Americans on 9.11.2001, from the psycho / pharmaceutical industries to the banks to the child molestation supporting religions.

      And after shocking me with this rude pastoral sin, the pastor calls my husband, defames me to him, and insists my husband take me to his “Christian therapist” friend. Eventually, I agreed to go because I was hoping the “Christian therapist” would help the pastor and I work out our differences. But no, she did not. She went and got a list of lies and gossip from the pastor and alleged child molesters, claimed my disgust at 9.11.2001 and the adverse effects from the bad drug cocktail were a “life long incurable genetic mental illness,” and I was immediately shipped to a psychiatrist. This resulted in a “Foul up” with Risperdal, according to my medical records.

      The story goes on and on, to the point I was eventually shipped to a Dr. V R Kuchipudi, whose now been arrested by the FBI for having many patients shipped unnecessarily to him, “snowing” them, and performing unneeded tracheotomies on them, merely for profit. But the point is anyone can be railroaded. And at least some of the psychiatric professionals (and mainstream doctors) are in the business of harming decent people, to cover up the sins and malpractice of the unethical pastors (and friends) and doctors who want to cover up their easily recognized “bad fixes” on broken bones.

      It’s a story of painting iatrogenic bipolar (I’m a fine artist and my paintings over the past twenty years speak a thousand words when it comes to visually depicting over time a sane unmedicated mind vs one being destroyed by the chaos created by psychiatric drugs), and subsequent research. And a story which hopefully will help enlighten all of humanity to the fact the psychiatrists are not ethical enough to deserve to be in charge. Although apparently neither are the religions, bankers, mainstream doctors, nor corporations. Absolute power corrupts all humans (irrespective of their profession), so no human should ever be given absolute power.

      If anyone knows of a possible publisher for such a story, I’d be terribly grateful. And my story does have a palitable and pleasant side to it, as I can basically tell the entire story in the lyrics of pop music. Which makes it much cheerier, and hopefully great makings for a movie some day.

    • “but it just doesn’t make sense that talking to one another, preaching to the choir, is going to make much difference. – TC”

      I don’t see this a s preaching to the choir here. The people here need to learn this ie “a pro-suffering cultural shift”
      There is actually far less support here for this than you might imagine. Far too much they try to drown and murder life and love with sympathy and support. I am so sick of seeing those sentiments misused as instruments of control -It’s Bio-psych ideology without the meds.

      People have been corrupted and co-opted at a basic level without realizing it, They need to change the goalposts as this essay suggests.

  4. I question whether all symptoms of ‘mental illness’ are caused by existential conflicts, isolation, loneliness, abuse, etc. An individual can experience ‘psychosis’ mood changes, and behavioral problems because of drug interactions, substance abuse or medication withdrawal, food allergies, sleep deprivation, etc. Claiming that ‘bio psychiatry is dead’ may be counter productive to individuals who seek relief from their symptoms using an alternative medical model that rejects force and values collaborative, transparent, informed decision making.

    Saying bio psychiatry is dead also may reduce the likelihood that bio psychiatry research could be used to undo and mitigate psychiatric harm, abuse, and neglect by shifting the focus of research (usually involving the brain) into practical clinical protocols to help individuals safely withdraw from psychiatric medications.

    Many individuals claim to have found great relief by radically altering their diet, exercise patterns, sleep patterns, etc. I don’t want to argue the role of medication in recovery, but if we claim that bio psychiatry is dead, aren’t we invalidating the voices of consumers and survivors who claimed to have been helped by such approaches possibly bio chemical in nature? Even placebo effect is not fully understood.

    This is where I get uncomfortable. Sometimes we sing to the choir, those of us who have been hurt or traumatized by psychiatry; we are understandably eager to create healing sanctuaries, treatment choices, reduce stigma, etc.

    I worry about ‘all or nothing’ approaches; then we all get to in-fighting over the whole ‘chemical imbalance’ theory and nothing ever changes from a policy perspective.

    People shouldn’t be forced to accept a one-sized-fits-all standard of treatment, period. People should get help when they ask for it, not have it shoved down their throats. But as for ruling out potentially promising avenues of research that may provide great relief to individuals, or ignoring the stories and voices of people who claim to have been helped with a treatment that was arguably medical in nature, I get very uncomfortable.

    • Have to agree Madmom and thanks for clarifying that for me. I have seen people irreparably harmed after starting a short course of benzos and I know holistically minded people who feel like their lives were saved by psych drugs. To me it has always come down to informed choice and giving people a full understanding of what they are getting into when they start “meds”. But making blanket all or nothing statements not only feels like an injustice to many people who would be sympathetic to reform, it could indeed make a lot of people just tune out the message.

      • “make a lot of people just tune out the message.”
        ..
        Don’t weaken in the face of fascism. If they are propel infected with bio-med ideology and getting primary rewards for the use of force then being nice to them won’t change them.

        Let them tune out and drop dead. You don’t need them. We need to dis-empower them not cater to them.
        There is nothing wrong with “all or nothing” – personal transformation requires total commitment and making an all or nothing choice to come alive or to remain dead.
        If a blanket works I’ll use it to smother the pharma agit-prop. They are waging propaganda war backed up by billions of dollars – it needs to be blanketed.

        ===================
        “aren’t we invalidating the voices of consumers and survivors who claimed to have been helped by such approaches possibly bio chemical in nature?”

        Yeah! And it’s great became those voices are invalid. And those voices aren’t even their own voices – they are the propped up puppets of the psych industry. The only voices that are valid are those that have come through to the other side and stand on their own two feet.

        ———————

        ” into practical clinical protocols to help individuals safely withdraw from psychiatric medications.”

        In what dreamworld is that? You want that done, it has to be from successful survivors , it won’t come from the Indu$try of P$ychiatric $Death$ .

        • I think you are making sweeping generalizations about psychiatrists and it remains to be seen whether or not psychiatry can reshape itself to the new paradigm of care people are demanding in ever greater numbers. I say, give it a chance.

          Although it is true that the majority of psychiatrists see medication maintenance as the standard of care for most ‘mental illnesses’ and they are unwilling or incapable of helping patients withdraw from meds (unless there is a compelling medical reason such as pregnancy, side effects that are life threatening and irrefutably linked to the meds, etc., not all psychiatrists are like that.

          The consumer/survivor movement has caused some psychiatrists to look twice at the evidence of harm, reflect on the recovery model, and second guess the existing standard of care.

          There is at least one psychiatrist in this MIA community who has openly shared that she is helping her patients safely reduce/withdraw from their meds.

          There are some psychiatrists listed in the Mindfreedom Alternatives Directory and in the MIA Directory who will help patients in this way. I cite this as evidence that some people trained in the medical model are willing to admit the limitations of this model and mitigate the damage done to people when the model is uniformly applied to broad populations.

          This does not include many psychiatrists who are ‘closed door’ allies, helping their patients withdraw from drugs underneath the radar so their medical licenses won’t be suspended or their tenure put at risk. My daughter enlisted the support of one such psychiatrist giving our entire family hope and faith that the system may, sometimes, serve people well.

          Unfortunately, open and closed door allies are in the minority and many communities lack such practitioners for vitally needed services. Peer delivered services are incredibly valuable, but many times, there is a medical piece to the process of rebuilding a life shattered by psychiatric harm and abuse.

          If we want more psychiatrists to practice in this way, caring less of what their peers think, and caring more about what their patients think, one of the ways we can help is to create a culture of respect and see each person, including psychiatrists as human beings capable of change and capable making good decisions. I think that honey changes people better than vinegar.

          Recently, I participated in a town hall meeting of consumers, survivors, occupiers, allies, and treatment providers; we discussed how to create a community based sanctuary for people withdrawing from drugs. We want more than discussion groups where people can vent. We want places where people can get food, lay their head at night, be safe from the cops, restore their strength and dignity similar to Soteria but tailored to our community’s needs.

          It takes real estate, community partnerships with consumer/survivor groups, corrections, law enforcers, judges, ER’s, waivers to zoning restrictions, liability insurance, referrals from emergency first responders, educational campaigns, sustainable funding, leadership, medical resources, governance, stewardship of donors, etc.

          To suggest that people in extreme states will automatically find refuge when we shift our culture to one of extreme tolerance is a utopian dream without any measurable goals. In a world that is infused with hope, real places exist where people can minger with their peers and find nourishment not just for the soul but for the body. Services such as community gardens, free clinic, clubhouses, etc. are reliable because they are structured, organized, and sustainable.(not necessarily hierarchical or institutionalized)

          • “I think you are making sweeping generalizations about psychiatrists and it remains to be seen whether or not psychiatry can reshape itself to the new paradigm of care people are demanding in ever greater numbers. I say, give it a chance.”

            Very good Pharma Prop especially the stuff how you co-opt the survivor movement.

            I day use a broom on the system and sweep it into the dustbin, and if that doesn’t work use the broom handle.

          • “Peer delivered services are incredibly valuable, but many times, there is a medical piece to the process of rebuilding a life shattered by psychiatric harm and abuse.”

            Madmom,

            Of course, there may be a medical piece to that process. Quite often, that’s true. Surely.

            But, is there a need for psychiatrists, truly?

            Are there not other kinds of physicians who could provide needed medical care — and, indeed, much better medical care than psychiatrists could provide?

            While I realize there are ‘success stories’ in the realm of psychiatry (apparently, you’ve experienced such a story, in your own family), when it comes to bio-psychiatry, I see mainly stories of abject failure.

            But, you believe you’ve seen some actual bio-psychiatric success, in your family; and, you would naturally like to replicate such success, in the lives of others…

            You know of your own encounter, with a psychiatrist who has been helpful to a family member.

            OK, I’ll take your word for it and won’t question your account of your family member’s story, as such (unless or until some contrary evidence leads me to question it); meanwhile, I know that real successes are terribly rare in the realm of bio-psychiatry.

            (I say “bio-psychiatry” as that accounts for most psychiatric practice; and, it is synonymous with psychiatric ‘medical’ practice.)

            Here I speak of bio-psychiatrists, as those are the vast majority of psychiatrists, and they are the psychiatrists who are active prescribers of psychotropic ‘medications’ (and other brain-altering ‘treatments’).

            You claim there are “many psychiatrists who are ‘closed door’ allies, helping their patients withdraw from drugs underneath the radar so their medical licenses won’t be suspended or their tenure put at risk. My daughter enlisted the support of one such psychiatrist giving our entire family hope and faith that the system may, sometimes, serve people well.”

            My response to that:

            Wonderful… for you and your family — truly. But, in good conscience I cannot possibly recommend that anyone seek to duplicate that experience, of your family, …as I know the System does far more harm than good, generally speaking; and, I know, reality dictates: It is simply not reasonable to expect that most “patients” can find a psychiatrist who will help them in the way that you describe your family member was helped.

            [P.S. — I suggest, contact the MIA commenter Altostrata, who has, apparently — for years now — worked fairly tirelessly, attempting to attract psychiatrists to take on such work. My understanding is that, she found the list of psychiatrists who will actively work that way is, in fact, exceedingly small. Most psychiatrists know next to nothing about taking “patients” off psychiatric drugs. In the course of their schooling, they aren’t instructed in such matters. (MIA’s own Dr. Datta explained that, very well, in one of his blog posts, this past year.)]

            You say there are many such psychiatrists working “underneath the radar.” Many? Really?

            I highly doubt that’s accurate.

            In fact, here I challenge you to, please, offer some ‘proof’ that there are many psychiatrists working that way.

            (Note: I don’t feel you are being deliberately misleading, yet I can’t help but challenge you, that way, as every indication that I’ve found, on the Web, is that, what you are suggesting there is simply not true. It is, I would say, purely wishful thinking…)

            But, in any case, madmom, you must realize, by this point, it would take literally battalions of psychiatrists, all working quite openly, toward getting their “patients” off pscyhiatric drugs (and, that would mean getting them off most of their psychiatric drugs, in the near term), to even begin making a dent in the plague/epidemic of poly-pharmacy (blatant over-drugging) that psychiatrists have created in recent decades.

            In my humble opinion, commenter skybluesight is right: There are quite enough resources, created by psychiatric survivors (and presented online), to lend anyone (and his/her family members) a very clear idea of how best to begin tapering off psychiatric drugs.

            [P.S. — Also, there’s the 12 Step framework for overcoming addictions. I highly recommend creating relatively small 12 Step groups, to assist in that process, of withdrawing from psychiatric drugs; only, I must say: do realize: this is not like A.A., where members are encouraged to quit drinking altogether immediately. Withdrawing from psychiatric drugs requires tapering, so it’s a different kind of 12 Step program that’s needed. (E.g., I highly recommend: Work the first three steps and only the first three steps for at least six months or a year before moving on, to the fourth. One should not be doing a ‘personal inventory’ without a strong sense of connection to ones own ‘Higher Power.’)]

            In my humble opinion, no one should be encouraged to wait upon ‘care’ from any psychiatrist, as psychiatry is unneeded.

            Finally, I must say: For as long as I live, from this point forward, I will not ever again entrust my life (nor entrust the life of any friend or love one) to any psychiatrist who works for the system. Frankly, I won’t seek professional consultations with any psychiatrists, but I am most entirely insistent, in my rejection of psychiatrists who work for the System.

            I believe no psychiatrist can be relied upon, to deliver genuine care, unless or until s/he refuses to order and/or condone forced psych ‘treatments’.

            And, while some few psychiatrists who work for the system are not inclined to order such ‘treatment,’ all psychiatrists who work for the system do condone such ‘treatment’ in some supposedly “necessary” instances.

            (Please read my preceding comment, posted above, on January 18, 2014 at 1:01 pm, so you can hopefully understand why I say: Forced psychiatric ‘treatment’ creates the very root of bio-psychiatry’s ultimate failures.)

            Medical-coercive psychiatry is the worst Systemic evil that I personally have ever encountered.

            Out of compassion, I cannot ever recommend any psychiatrist who works for the System, to anyone — because all psychiatrists who work for the System are inclined to condone coerced and forced ‘treatment’; I would not want even my worst enemies to seek the ‘help’ of such psychiatrists.

            The ultimate harms that such psychiatrists create (most often, with the best intentions) are, in the long run, far beyond the average person’s ability to imagine; no one deserves to suffer such harms.

            And, as the well-known dissident psychiatrist, Peter Breggin MD, has explained: “Psychiatry’s nature cannot be changed; it can only be constrained by public outrage.”

            Hence, your call for milder talk and your stated vision for ideal community care, though well-meaning, are not what I would ever recommend.

            I can’t recommend such calls, as they are calls for the inclusion of psychiatrists who, in working for the System, simply must condone, encourage — and, perhaps, necessarily, order — forced ‘treatment’ in some instance…

            Hopefully, nothing I’ve said here shall discouraging you in commenting further.

            I actually appreciate your comments, they are well-considered, and I find your posts to be at least as valuable as that of any other commenter on this website.

            Respectfully,

            Jonah

    • Oh yeah, wonderful “relief” –
      For who? the observer who can’t take it. Without ones’ symptoms one has not life. Usually the afflicted love their symptoms a lot more than the outside “altrusit” can understand.
      ..o

      Te use of psych-meds produces lobotomies pure and simple,
      It’s not that psych meds are dead but psych meds are death.
      True they might be useful as a temporary bring down but permanent use is permanent death.
      ..

      “potentially promising avenues of research”
      Ha! You are humorous. The lonesome cry of the “Sickeninious Ignoramus” bird, the bird that feasts on the leavenings of humans in the mental health industry.
      comm.

      Nobody needs research. We already know everything we need to know. We just need to practice tried and true methods of wellness and cure. If you don’t know what to do then ask a successful survivor – they will smarten you up.

      • “Nobody needs research. We already know everything we need to know. We just need to practice tried and true methods of wellness and cure. If you don’t know what to do then ask a successful survivor – they will smarten you up.”

        Absolute truth. Period.

        • When the research provides the evidence that the ‘tried and true’ methods of attaining wellness work then funding for such things including, housing, vocational training, meaningful employment, education, recreation, music, art, yoga, gym memberships, community agriculture, peer support, etc. will follow.

          Tossing research out the window is a very naive approach, considering how the world works, unless one is suggesting that we don’t need government services anymore to support individuals going through extreme emotional and mental challenges.

          If one is going to reject all forms of government support then what is going to replace current forms of support? Even if that support is meager, where will our young adults go who are being discharged from secure psychiatric facilities, back to the streets? Will their friends take care of them? Will their families take care of them? Jail? Peer support is not yet developed to the point that everyone getting discharged can rely on peer support for a crisis or a soft landing

          • “Tossing research out the window is a very naive approach, considering how the world works, unless one is suggesting that we don’t need government services anymore to support individuals going through extreme emotional and mental challenges.
            – a pharma’s Self Appointed Propagandist”

            If you stop tossing experience out the window you would find the “research” has already been done by successful survivors.
            It’s so absurd that they are spending money on “research” to find chemical imbalances on the head of a pin but do not spend a single dollar on many forms of psychotherapy which have all demonstrated the ability to facilitate many kinds of cure.

            The Government services you mention currently amount to a successful mass lobotomization and thus mass murder program.

            Legislate to take one tenth of the profit from the drug industry and funnel it into social interventions and the mental illness will start to have a 90 percent cure rate instead of a 99 percent lobotomization rate.

        • Personally, I would like to see more research being done. Not on brain disease, but on diseases that affect the brain. Madmom touched on this in her first paragraph.

          I understand this research wouldn’t apply in cases of trauma but it is the other side of your coin. Sick individuals with “mental illness” symptoms basically left to rot on psychiatric drugs while their medical conditions go untreated.

          I am very surprised that physicians so easily dismiss their history when there is ample evidence of conditions thought to be psychological (asthma, ulcers, syphilis, to name a few) are in fact proved to be caused by physical illness.

          Likewise, all the healing peer support in the world would not help those with physical illness, except of course learning how to cope with the disability it brings and with being labeled mentally ill.

          I don’t suppose I’ll see much money spent on this type of research. I know they redirected money on CFS research, just because, I guess it is all in the sufferers heads anyway.

          • ANON , Here some research for you that our community seems to be doing the ostrich head in the sand thing about as I never get any affirmative replies about although it is within my lived experience . MercuryJustice.org
            Big Pharma’s Secret Weapon against humanity…

            Intentional Mercury contamination of Public
            via vaccines,dental mercury & HFCS by Eugenicists

            Very few know, let others know BigPharma’s trick
            Even “experts” are in the dark,by design,act now

            Hg is true covert cause of all autoimmune diseases…
            MS,Autism,Alzheimer,Diabetes,ADHD,et cetera
            [email protected]
            http://MercuryJustice.org

          • Fred, thanks for your reply! Unfortunately, your link takes me to an expired domain, yet no worries; I’ve read about mercury before this.

            I don’t think that any one thing explains the symptoms of mental illness or autoimmune disease, nor do I believe in a grand conspiracy. However, I don’t doubt your experience with mercury.

    • @madmom,

      You wrote:

      “An individual can experience ‘psychosis’ mood changes, and behavioral problems because of drug interactions, substance abuse or medication withdrawal, food allergies, sleep deprivation, etc.”

      I agree.

      Unfortunately, the vast majority of shrinks are either unaware or choose to ignore these things; and a person is much wiser to go to another type of doctor for treatment of these issues.

      Which is why psychiatry is dead.

      Duane
      http://discoverandrecover.wordpress.com/root-causes-of-mental-illness/

  5. “My mind has been to harrowing places, where loneliness, fear, and the bewildering intensity of it all brought me to my knees. Since then, on both voluntary and paid bases I’ve sat with people in the midst of comparable experiences,

    ..
    But I have to admit that over the past few months my need for self-preservation required me to avoid these types of interactions.”

    It’s a little unclear…. what happened?
    ..
    I’ve been in the worst possible, and am now on the other side , I have a foot in both worlds.

    People don’t suffer enough is the problem. Some people have nothing but their suffering and yet the shrinks want to cheat them of that.
    They want to make an ocean of spotless minds in a spotless world bathed in the eternal and vapid sunshine of chemical suppressants. An end to evolution.

  6. Re: “Bio-psychiatry is dead…”

    *Finally*, someone else on MIA agrees!

    But some insist that modern “treatment” with bio-psychiatry appears to “alleviate suffering”… Surely, we ought to be open to the “medical advances” in the field of psychiatry.

    The same thing was said not long ago, with lobotomies:

    http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm?volumeID=27&editionID=235&ArticleID=2403

    I diagree.
    I say, psychiatry is *dead*!

    “The more things change, the more they stay the same.” – Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr

    Duane

      • My doctors all swore to my husband that the worst possible adverse reaction to their antipsychotics was “thirst.” Despite the fact they’d caused psychosis in me, with the antipsychotics. And my only family history of mental illness was an adverse reaction to an old antipsychotic in a grandmother who was also made ungodly sick by an antipsychotic, and quickly taken off it.

        But if the medical community creates psychosis with drugs in a patient, then every complaint of prior malpractice – even with medical proof – is null and void, because the patient was able to be made psychotic with antipsychotics – I was dealing with a cover up of a “bad fix” on a broken bone.

  7. Not to sound like a broken record but again, I wanted to remind folks that 70% of all psych drugs are prescribed by non psychiatrists. And many of those doctors are just as ill informed about these meds if not more than psychiatry is.

    My point is that just because you visit a regular doctor, doesn’t mean you are safe from being pressured to take psych meds, particularly if you are the type of patient who doesn’t respond to the typical medical interventions offered for your particular situation.

  8. Greg, I love what you wrote, but in my experience, the general public, public officials,Big Pharma, the media, politicians, academia, and organzied psychiatry have no idea that biopsychiatry has been been disroven and that the the argument is over and we won. The public mental helath system, and those who organize and pay for the system, are still in charge and they continue to do harm to countless thousands of people. So we haven’t won yet.

    • Yeah but that’s not the free world, bio-psychiatry is dead in the free world where it counts. Maybe the infected zombies will cannibalize themselves,self destruct, die out and we will survive.
      Bio-psychiatry has no evolutionary value – it is the death of evolution – it turns humans into flat-lined slugs – only the resilient can survive life.
      ..
      Unfortunately like the Black Death it will take it’s toll on humanity but I guess like the Black Death it will purify the gene pool and eliminate those not fit to evolve into the next form of homo sapiens sapiens excellentus.

      • skybluesight,

        This comment of yours (on January 19, 2014 at 7:09 am) is very confusing to me. I wonder who “infected zombies” refers to, exactly?

        (Does it refer to all who are somehow fooled into accepting psychiatry’s disease model? Does it refer to all who are adversely impacted by bio-psychiatry?)

        Your comment seems to encourage sitting idly by as a man-made (iatrogenic) plague wreaks havoc on humanity.

        Maybe I am misreading you, but it seems to me that you’re promoting nihilism. (On the other hand, it’s possible that you are just being ironic. If that’s the case, then I am misreading you; but, I presume others may misread you too. So…)

        Perhaps, you can clarify your meanings.

        Thanks much, in advance…

        Respectfully,

        Jonah

          • @ skybluesight,

            Thank you for that reply. Though it is somewhat coded, cryptic, it has led me to pondering an epic work of poetry.

            (All thanks to Google.)

            Here’s a bit more of that same poem, which I find apropos…

            The vivid, florid, turgid sky,
            The drenching thunder rolling by,

            The morning deluged still by night,
            The clouds tumultuously bright

            And the feeling heavy in cold chords
            Struggling toward impassioned choirs,

            Crying among the clouds, enraged
            By gold antagonists in air–

            I know my lazy, leaden twang
            Is like the reason in a storm;

            And yet it brings the storm to bear.
            I twang it out and leave it there.

            I appreciate your having led me to that poem, but your replying comment is so spare, it does not directly answer my question (who are the “infected zombies” to whom you refer?).

            I guess I’ll take that couple of lines you’ve offered (from Wallace Stevens’ “The Man with the Blue Guitar”), to imply, that: Basically, your comment on January 19, 2014 at 7:09 am is an example of your way of singing the blues.

            That’s perfectly fine by me.

            But, your expressions can easily be misread.

            So, here I am aiming to clarify…

            I do presume, after all, that you are not who believes what you said, at last, in that comment (as you wrote, “Unfortunately like the Black Death it will take it’s toll on humanity but I guess like the Black Death it will purify the gene pool and eliminate those not fit to evolve into the next form of homo sapiens sapiens excellentus.”)

            I fully presume that, when you speak of iatrogenic effects purifying the gene pool, you are being ironic.

            Surely, there must be some people who think that way, but I don’t believe you do.

            Again, to be as clear as possible, I say: You do not believe the cumulative harms of bio-psychiatry shall ultimately ‘purify’ the gene pool; but, rather, you suspect that some people who promote bio-psychiatry do believe that…

            That is what I gather from these last couple of comments, which you’ve posted.

            Of course, you can correct me if I’ve somehow misinterpreted you.

            Respectfully,

            Jonah

        • @ BeyondLabeling a.k.a. Jonah on January 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm

          It is already crystal clear, you just have to accept it. The psycho-zombie Apocalypse has already happened. The small group of survivors will have to do what they have to do to survive. You have some hard choices ahead – just don’t let them bite you.

          The “asking a question” subterfuge to make angry attacks is a very old tired ploy.

          Please don’t use my name when you want to post an opinion. Stand on your on two feet and get off my coattails.

          • @ skybluesight,

            RE: “angry attacks”

            ???

            I am truly baffled.

            What do mean by “angry attacks,” I wonder???

            I have never felt anger toward you.

            Truly, never for a moment have I felt any anger toward you whatsoever — not ever.

            I have never felt even the slightest iota of anger toward you.

            Not the least tiny bit of anger, truly.

            In fact, whenever I’ve posted your user name in any comment of mine, it has been done with a most certain pleasure and deep appreciation for you — quite honestly.

            As it happens, I love your presence in these MIA comment threads.

            So…

            RE: “Please don’t use my name when you want to post an opinion. Stand on your on two feet and get off my coattails.”

            I can’t help but wonder, what do you mean by that???

            A couple of times, I have mentioned your user name, in my comments, as I was tipping my hat to some things you’d said; in my view, I was merely agreeing and being respectful.

            Have I been standing on your coattails???

            Frankly, I am totally baffled by this, your latest comment, which you’ve offered me.

            But, I won’t fret it, Blue Guitar.

            🙂

            Really, I am quite sorry for any way that you feel offended by me.

            I never meant to offend.

            From now on, I will not address you, nor will I refer to any of your comments, in my comments.

            Blessings to you, Sir. And, thank you for giving me such a direct brush off. (Note: I really mean it; I deeply appreciate your being so direct.)

            Take Good Care…

            Respectfully,

            Jonah

        • @ BeyondLabeling a.k.a. Jonah on January 19, 2014 at 1:51 pm

          It’s possible I got you wrong, so I will give you and extended answer.
          ——————-
          I repeat and extend my answer:

          “It is already crystal clear, you just have to accept it. The psycho-zombie Apocalypse has already happened.”

          My analogy stands. If you are asking who are the infected, you are probably the infected and don’t realize it, in which case you need deprogramming.
          Like in the “Walking Dead”, everyone is infected. The reason .01 percent fascists rule is that they have the willing compliance of a thoroughly indoctrinated slave class. One does not exist without the other. You can say this compliant slave class has been culturally cultivated or even genetically cultivated over generations and all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.
          If you try to fight for freedom the dobermans that will tear you to pieces will be the “innocent victims” of the fascist ruling class.
          ..
          Everyone has had their brains compromised , they want to fight for freedom just so long as it doesn’t oppose the fascists that rule them – they have been crippled by fascist-compliant ideology since childhood.
          The larger picture is where do the psychiatrists and the dopey-compliant-dopers that believe them come from? They are all the extensions or products of fascist indoctrination and fascist ideology – They all “believe” in their system – like the ancient Egyptians when their fascist oppressors die they will weep and wail and bury themselves with them.

          Psychiatry generally does not create mental illness – it aggravates it, and prevents it’s cure. Mental illness on the whole comes from oppression for the top down, the rejection of personal growth processes, personal self-protection in favour of compliance to fascism and adherence to ideologies and behaviors that reject the defense and self-protection of the individual.


          Mental illness is the primarily the distribution of repression and repressive social processes, distributed from the top down into the population in the form of interactive repressive social process which become internalized in individuals manifested as personal dysfunction.

          I would think that most people like myself who have gone through madness have become de-socialized and free from their indoctrinated illusions. I would hope so, else it would be a terrible waste of the madness. This is why the authorities and “normal” people (“walkers”) hate and fear survivors so much- especially the ones that have successfully passed through.

          The small group of survivors will have to do what they have to do to survive. You have some hard choices ahead – just don’t let them bite you.

          Civilization is already dead. I am neither nihilist nor advocating standing “idly by”. I am a survivalist. First Law of Survival is do not follow the zombies into the killing field no matter who they are. I disassociate from my personal self from anyone who is following a path of self-destruction, I will not let anyone pull me down.

          If you got the anti-virus for them, by all means save them, but otherwise, don’t go out there, they will tear you to pieces. If they all should be purged in a mass destruction due to the inherent contradictions of Fascism destroying itself, then:
          “Gee, What a pity – pass the gravy.”
          ..
          They die, the race is purged, survivalists of all kinds are free. I am free.
          OK , yeah a real tragedy but….
          Deal! Free at last, Oh Free at last!

          • @ skybluesight,

            RE: “It’s possible I got you wrong…”

            IMHO, if you thought I was angry with you, then you surely did get me wrong; for, I was not at all angry with you.

            (As mentioned already, in fact, I greatly appreciate your contributions to the discussions on this website.)

            IMHO, it takes a big man to admit he may be wrong.

            So, thank you for reconsidering my query and offering an extended answer.

            As I read through it, I find myself in some disagreement with you; however, quite frankly, I agree with a lot of what you say; and, seldom ever do I find myself in complete agreement with anyone — especially, when it comes to philosophical and political matters.

            But, as it happens, I fully agree with the blogger (Greg), in his expressed views, on this page.

            And, I see that you, too, appreciate his message; hence, we are bound to agree in ways…

            In terms of agreeing, I concur, fascism is a very real (and growing) threat in the world today. Indeed, much of that threat comes from within this country (the U.S.).

            However, I believe it can be quite difficult for anyone to say with final authority, where fascism begins and ends.

            There have been historical trends, in various countries, which are more or less completely fascistic; also, there are tendencies which some people (especially, some politicians) may demonstrate, which are clearly fascistic.

            But, fascism is not always obvious. (I think you agree with me, on that point.)

            Some people believe that this country (the U.S.) is a fascist country; I don’t know if that’s your view; but, in any case, I disagree with that assessment.

            I say, yes, there are fascistic trends, which are evident here.

            But, fascism, like most forms of institutional evil, can be hard to peg.

            Where does it begin? Where does it end?

            Maybe it would help to define the term, as I tend to think that the word “fascism” is not well understood by many people.

            Here I offer what I believe is a fairly good definition of it, from UrbanDictionary(dot)com,

            fascism

            The only official definition of Fascism comes from Benito Mussolini, the founder of fascism, in which he outlines three principles of a fascist philosophy.

            1.”Everything in the state”. The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body, often a dictator.

            2.”Nothing outside the state”. The country must grow and the implied goal of any fascist nation is to rule the world, and have every human submit to the government.

            3.”Nothing against the state”. Any type of questioning the government is not to be tolerated. If you do not see things our way, you are wrong. If you do not agree with the government, you cannot be allowed to live and taint the minds of the rest of the good citizens.

            The use of militarism was implied only as a means to accomplish one of the three above principles, mainly to keep the people and rest of the world in line. Fascist countries are known for their harmony and lack of internal strife. There are no conflicting parties or elections in fascist countries.
            Nazi Germany was extreme Fascism, better examples of fascist countries were Mussolini’s Italy, Iraq, Iran, and many middle eastern countries.

            Look it up people, I’m not wrong.
            by Gary August 05, 2004

            http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fascism

            To a large extent, psychiatry has been used, historically, to bolster fascist rule.

            Clearly, you are no fan of psychiatry, nor am I, and I’m glad to be assured, by you, that you are completely against fascism (and fascist-compliant ideology) and that your are not a nihilist and that you do not advocate standing idly by as a man-made (iatrogenic) plague wreaks havoc on humanity.

            That plague is the effect of physicians — psychiatrists and others who promote psychiatric dogma — ‘treating’ so-called “mental illness” with brain-damaging drugs and procedures.

            In you comment, you attempt to define “mental illness.”

            I completely appreciate that, in the process of offering you definition, you are essentially condemning authoritarianism of every kind, calling it the scourge that keeps people from overcoming that which is called “mental illness.” (That’s consistent with your opposition to fascism.)

            I, myself, don’t ever claim to know what “mental illness” is, because everyone uses that term in his/her own way.

            Thomas Szasz said that the many attempts at defining “mental illness” are useless; he called it a “plastic” term, and I agree.

            And, I question your speculations regarding genetics, as you write, “…this compliant slave class has been culturally cultivated or even genetically cultivated over generations and all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.” (I absolute do not believe that all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.)

            My essential disagreement with you, ultimately: You say “Civilization is already dead.”

            Here, I’ll quote you more fully,in context,

            “Civilization is already dead. I am neither nihilist nor advocating standing “idly by”. I am a survivalist. First Law of Survival is do not follow the zombies into the killing field no matter who they are.”

            IMHO, it’s truly good to be assured and to know that you are neither a nihilist nor standing idly by…

            And, I can certainly appreciate that First Law of Survival.

            Simply, I believe civilization is alive; and, though isn’t well, it’s well worth saving…

            Hence, I come back to the words of our blogger (Greg), who explains, this is “a conversation about doing something as a civilization that has never been done consistently on a large scale. A collective commitment to the well-being of each and every member of society.

            And, I remind myself of something Joseph Campbell once said: “Survival is the second law of life. The first is that we are all one.”

            Again, thank you for your extended reply…

            Respectfully,

            Jonah

  9. “It is time that we get over ourselves and appreciate that a full existence as humans is fleeting and full of pain, suffering . . . and beauty.”

    Yes there is far too much talk here of psychiatrists. The people here give them undue attention. They are lopheads, the human part has been lopped off, you will find more intelligence in a parade of oysters following a walrus.

    I remember over 40 years ago, when I was in the hospital 14 floors up pressing the elevator button.

    I became terrified that I would fall through the floor and go plunging all the way down to my death. The floor had become insubstantial like a cloud and I would fall through.
    And falling, falling, I would become smashed at the bottom, bones broken in a hundred places speared by the re-bars and I would watch my own eyeballs pop out and go rolling in the thick and spurting blood.
    I tried not to think but my mind betrayed me over and over and would not let go of the reality of my doom.
    And so, I fell.
    And flailed and fell.

    So join hands with me in space and time as we go falling in the void, there is enough fear to go around it will be endless and ever drenching.
    We will have good crunch.
    ..
    So , in the transition to the third Bardo, the aspirants go into the wilderness and fast for ten days then sit at night by the open fire and chilly night. They can no longer tell if the wolves that rip them apart and chew at their bones are real or not.
    The psychotic shatters the fundamental illusion of physical reality.
    And it is an illusion, I’m sorry folks , there is no reality. Oh, it’s there, but then again there isn’t.

    It’s a valuable experiential lesson from suffering. It’s a bonus.Don’t waste it, it will give you power especially over those who live and have only lived in flatland. That is why they fear you , you know another world, an inner world, that terrifies them and that they cannot understand.


    So two monks met a psychiatrist at a riverbank and the shrink said “Hello’ , As they walked on , one day later , one monk said
    “I wonder what he meant by that?”
    To which the other monk said “I left the psychiatrist at the riverbank, why are you still carrying him?”

    • Skybluesight,

      I like this comment of yours (on January 19, 2014 at 6:47 am) quite a lot. With just the least bit of personal anecdote, offered in so few words, it quickly goes straight to the point, speaking clearly of the essence of the entire failure of bio-psychiatry. (And, I love your use of traditional Eastern wisdom, in the end.)

      Thanks for writing and posting it…

      Respectfully,

      Jonah

  10. thank you, greg. I agree with almost of all what you have written. I am in the middle of a horrific day dealing with my husband- an obsessive thinker who was/is caught in a 10 year benzo nightmare, and has caught me and our kids in it with him. reading articles like yours validates what I have suspected/known about our broken “system” for a long time. just wanted to say thanks.

  11. @Jonah
    Sorry Jonah, IMO, You are one of the infected, you have been compromised. You have been propagandized to support your own oppression and worse not even see it. This is an indoctrinated mental illness or in fact is the source is the source of much mental illness.
    If I’m arguing with you , I’m arguing with the system that created you and the system that you have been indoctrinated to protect. Your arguments are not your own arguments they are from your handlers and you have been indoctrinated to argue , to be a doberman of the system, to identify with it and protect it. Compliance has been achieved in you.
    This is the propaganda that has been extended into the population through social indoctrination of all kinds . I find these arguments tedious and repetitive. Always the same over and over again cutting off the ever recursive the tentacles of a monster..
    .

    North America is under totalitarianism. You don’t need a dictionary to figure it out, you just have to be wide wake. Neither you nor a community representing your interests own anything significant that you have – least of all your mind. Oh yeah – some people can hollow out small domains of escape with in the oppression, for now anyway.

    I absolute do not believe that all those who fought for individual freedom have been weeded out and killed off.

    You see? You are defending against things I haven’t said because you haven’t considered these concepts openly and objectively.


    “Simply, I believe civilization is alive; and, though isn’t well, it’s well worth saving…”

    Yeah , well you can’t even save yourself and story after story here shows that people can neither save themselves from themselves from the system (civilization ) that oppresses them.
    You can’t even separate your survival from the the survival of the fascists who own you.And you make it all one ( a concept which which was indoctrinated), it’s not all one – replace the world civilization with “system” – you mistakenly think it’s the only system that exists, that can exist and you want to save it all as a unit thus saving your oppressors.

    ” Joseph Campbell once said: “Survival is the second law of life. The first is that we are all one.”

    These and the other things are the general ugly thing I object to. The use of “lovey dovey attitudes” which actually promote and indoctrinate fascism and oppression – it’s nothing to do with love.
    In this fascist indoctrination -you learn to feel guilty about protecting yourself from oppressors – you didn’t first learn it from Campbell you probably were indoctrinated with anti-survival attitudes and to surrender to the “system” in Kindergarten.
    ..
    We are not all one, I am not one of “you” for sure, I do not represent the interests of my oppressors and reject them and all their agents and sockpuppets. and I am not one of your “them”, I am one of “us” the free, I have freed myself.

    “A collective commitment to the well-being of each and every member of society.”
    It’s good that you should understand what you do not have.

    I don’t attempt to define things. I attempt to explain things I know to be true form my experience. You can’t learn these things by arguing about them at this level – this is the level of consequence or effect so this is another useless conversation.

    I, myself, don’t ever claim to know what “mental illness” is, because everyone uses that term in his/her own way.

    Then perhaps you need to suffer more til you can say or know something definitive. Human experience is universal – that is First Law – that’s something psychiatrists try to deny by refusing to understand that something like for instance , schizophrenia , is just a dysfunction of normal psychology and by looking at normal psychological processes they can usually find a cure.

    Szaz is mostly useless in that most people use him to evade responsibility and avoid success and self-change.

    So the cure for the infected is to learn self-change and adherence to growth principles which include learning to accept suffering. When you become cured, the walkers will smell you and try to tear you to pieces. The cure can’t be achieved in arguing against a propaganda system.
    Genuine psychotherapy is actually revolutionary which accounts for it’s suppression by the fascist system we live in. It creates people that are self-protective and will challenge oppression. If people want a healthier society they have to advocate for the acceptance of true growth processes and the elimination of the anti-growth processes in popular culture. This is actually a revolutionary act agaisnt a totalitarian system

    • @ skybluesight

      Thank you very much for your reply.

      First of all, about the term “mental illness”: I think maybe you misunderstood me.

      Here I will briefly explain…

      I do believe there are sufferings, which many people experience, which are called “mental illness”; and, I do believe that such sufferings are typically made worse by bio-psychiatry.

      Simply, I don’t accept any definition of “mental illness” because that term means countless things to countless people.

      Here is a link (I have posted it already, a few times, in my recent MIA comments) to an article regarding the term “mental illness.”

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sacramento-street-psychiatry/201312/who-is-mentally-ill?tr=HdrQuote

      I agree with that article. It’s written by a psychiatrist, whom I know nothing about. (Apparently, he has written other articles, but that’s the only one which I’ve read.)

      Surely, if I were to learn more about that article’s author, I’d find many things objectionable, in his views; however, I do agree with his conclusions, in that article, most especially, when he comes to say,

      In my view, “the mentally ill” harbors too many unstated implications and vaguely shared assumptions regarding whom we are talking about.

      I completely agree with that view.

      Therefore, I don’t think of anyone as ‘mentally ill.’

      However, I can and do well accept that you think of some people that way.

      And, I find your views interesting.

      In fact, before I respond further, now, I will add: I don’t take offense at anything you’ve said, and I don’t feel attacked in any way, so I am feeling no anger whatsoever, as I offer this reply.

      (I say I am feeling no anger, because you previously believed I was angry when I was not angry at all; and, I am hoping to avoid a recreation of that misunderstanding.)

      I am not angry at all. I am merely curious…

      You say,

      “Human experience is universal – that is First Law – that’s something psychiatrists try to deny by refusing to understand that something like for instance , schizophrenia , is just a dysfunction of normal psychology and by looking at normal psychological processes they can usually find a cure.”

      I agree, human experience is universal; and, to me, that is exactly what Joseph Campbell was saying: “We are all one.”

      But, I don’t believe “schizophrenia” is a useful concept.

      (IMHO, “schizophrenia” is a worse than useless label, as it means far too many things to too many people… just like “mental illness” means too many things to too many people.)

      From considering the context of various comments you’ve posted in these MIA comment threads (including your comment above (on January 19, 2014 at 6:47 am), I believe that, when you speak of “schizophrenia,” you are referring to what I think of as, ‘personality disintegration.’

      I experienced a bit of that phenomena, in my own way, back in the mid 1980’s (when I was in my early twenties).

      The psychiatric ‘treatment’ that was forced upon me, at that time, made the situation much, much, MUCH worse.

      After a little over three years, I got away from psychiatry (and, that means, of course, I got away from all the psychiatric druggging); in the following couple of years, I gained a very strong sense of myself, as bodhisattva (in the tradition of Nichiren, which is a form of Mahayana Buddhism).

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva

      I had no psychotherapists to turn to… (in fact, I had to leave my psychotherapist, because my psychotherapist supported the psychiatrists’ view, that I supposedly needed psychiatric drugs to survive).

      I have been free of psychiatry and free of psychiatric drugs ever since.

      I was greatly helped, then, by that Buddhist practice.

      In recent years, I have come to appreciate many forms of spiritual practice (including various forms of Buddhism).

      I think that many forms of spiritual practice, which include meditation (including forms of yoga), can serve as a basis for overcoming the sorts of sufferings that are usually called “mental illness.”

      Respectfully,

      Jonah

      • P.S. — @ skybluesight, I disagree with your view, that “North America is under totalitarianism,” but I do believe there is an evil system system in our midst; that’s called medical-coercive Psychiatry.

        As a rule, medical-coercive Psychiatry provides ‘treatment’ that is anything but healthy; in fact, it tends to inflict its so-called “patients” with the precise inverse of good care; it offers exactly the opposite of what would bring about health and well-being, in most instances.

        Why does such a system continue to thrive and hold sway, over the lives of millions, in this country (the U.S.)?

        I believe one reasonable answer to that question, is simply, that: It is an enforcer of ‘norms’ and a most convenient ‘denial system.’

        Many families are, on the whole, dedicated to keeping their members in line.

        S/he who would step out of line will be viewed as ‘mentally ill’ — because there is a tendency for most families to want to avoid revelations, regarding the actual realities, of what that seemingly anxious and/or angry individual’s life is expressing.

        In essence, families turn to the State, and the psychiatrist becomes fascistic/totalitarian, in his/her ‘treatment’ of that individual family member.

        Medical-coercive Psychiatry is a fascistic system, which adopts an appearance of ‘medical’ propriety.

        It will prevent the so-called “patient” from receiving good psychotherapy.

        In my first months of so-called “involuntary hospitalization,” I was, indeed, strictly refused any form of therapy, as I was being literally ‘brainwashed’ into thinking of myself as ‘mentally ill’ (with loads of unwanted psychotropic drugs).

        I begged to speak with a therapist, and it was not allowed.

        Many years later, my mom would explain to me, that she had been told (here I paraphrase), “They told us they can’t give a person therapy when he’s insane. They told us, first they had to seal the patient.”

        (What a truly Orwellian term, that is: “…seal the patient!”)

        In fact, I was not insane before I’d been forcibly made into an “inpatient”; only, I was being made ‘insane’ by constant drugging.

        And, psychotherapy was not allowed; it was forbidden.

        From this point of view, I feel your comment’s conclusion is right on.

        So, it bears repeating,

        “Genuine psychotherapy is actually revolutionary which accounts for it’s suppression by the fascist system we live in. It creates people that are self-protective and will challenge oppression. If people want a healthier society they have to advocate for the acceptance of true growth processes and the elimination of the anti-growth processes in popular culture. This is actually a revolutionary act agaisnt a totalitarian system”

        But, should anyone expect that the government will ever provide such psychotherapy?

        I don’t think so…

        Respectfully,

        Jonah

  12. Too many responses about psychiatrists and not enough about how to suffer more and embrace it.
    ..
    I’d like to see more people share about how to promote more suffering. First we must understand that anti-suffering is anti-life. You can’t take away the negative an have only the positive. Some people have only the negative, if you take it away then they have nothing, they are dead and dead-ended.

    Intervention,challenge and confrontation is very important The first good thing my psychotherapist did was to punch me on the shoulder , yes to physically assault me. He then ridiculed me extensively for my reaction when asked what do I feel?
    (I only said my shoulder feels a little sore.}
    The co-therapist across the circle was very warm and friendly and commiserated how how the two punches were very loud sounding ,even to her sitting across the circle. But even she asked me the question I couldn’t answer – how do I feel about it?
    This started to wake me up, to tell me what was wrong.
    They started me. Six months later I put my fist to a pillow and started to become alive.

    Can u imagine a psychiatrist or another agent of the state even considering to do either of these two types of interventions – actually promoting a schizophrenic to be angry?
    No.

    But I try to make my point for various forms of interventionism and living in an interventionist way. Interventionism is never certain, it is always a risk.
    But ordinary living is a risk – when we live on the edge, we are excited, when we live in the protected zone we are bored.

    The neurotic lives in mostly a cold and locked in world. The popular psychiatric attitude is that people have stressors and thus the solution is to avoid them – this guarantees mental illness – – growth processes in any form do the reverse. Popular attitudes are that when people are hurt we are to avoid any mention of it or discussion about it or even worse where it is inappropriate to pour loads of life-smothering sympathy on it.
    ..
    Popular attitudes do not distinguish between negative criticism meant to destroy and critical analysis meant to build up. For many people the inability to distinguish between the two (because of their background) puts a “cork in the bottle” – the healing elixir of life cannot flow out.

  13. @ Jonah

    “I agree, human experience is universal; and, to me, that is exactly what Joseph Campbell was saying: “We are all one.”

    ..

    No , it isn’t saying the same thing. He was drawing a goody two shoes conclusion for you.He was a storyteller and storytellers manipulate their audiences and tell happy endings.

    He didn’t tell you the full truth which is one part of humanity has to kill the other part who have made the wrong choices.
    The full truth is we are all one at birth, but later on in life “We are all Two”.
    You have to make a choice and not to make a choice is a choice.

    One idea is about similarity in functioning, the other is about what we do with it and what we are.

    The full truth is in the “Three Character Classic” which describes how all people are born the same at birth but become different by choosing one of two paths at some significant time in there lives.

    • @ skybluesight,

      I quite disagree with your assessment of Joseph Campbell and his views.

      I stand by my interpretation of what he meant, as he said “We are all one.”

      From what you’re saying about him (and about his having explained “We are all one”), it seems to me you’ve not read him fully enough, to understand his message.

      IMHO, his message was contained in that line, “We are all one” — which was, indeed, an encouragement, to develop compassion; however, that is not all; his ultimate message was that, each of us is endowed with the same essentials required to live heroically but, of course, on our own unique scale and ‘stage’ of life.

      According to Campbell, we might never be widely acknowledged, but that doesn’t matter; life’s greatest gifts always come from simply following ones own bliss and striving to develop compassion.

      In his view, the compassion that one must develop, need not be — and, indeed, probably could not be — all-encompassing.

      A soldier could develop immense compassion, in the midst of doing battle.

      To Campbell, the Holy Grail is the development of compassion; however, he doubted that anyone might develop compassion for all people equally, and he did not recommend attempting to do so.

      For example, I offer you the following passage (from the book, A Joseph Campbell Companion):

      Committing yourself to a person unconditionally is very different from having unconditional love for everybody in New York City. I’m not the Dalai Lama, who’s supposed to have unconditional love for everything in the world. Even God doesn’t have unconditional love. He throws people into hell. I personally don’t even think unconditional love is an ideal. I think you’ve got to have a discriminating factor and let bastards be bastards and let those who ought to be hit in the jaw get it. In fact, I have a list. If anybody has a working guillotine, I’d be glad to give them my list.

      (page 52)

      (Important to note: In that passage, above, Campbell’s reference was to the mythological ‘God’ of ancient stories; and, he was not a believer.)

      Campbell also said, “When I look in the faces of my enemy, it makes me proud.”

      I believe, in that line, he was implying two things simultaneously: He was recognizing the possibility of turning an enemy into a friend, and he was acknowledging the special dangers, especially of our modern age, wherein technology can allow complete strangers to all too easily wind up killing one another, by remote-control, at great distances; I believe he was cautioning against becoming in ways overly hasty, in deciding who should get the guillotine.

      Respectfully,

      Jonah

  14. @jonah
    Why does such a system continue to thrive and hold sway, over the lives of millions, in this country (the U.S.)?
    ..
    Because they are backed by a multi billion Drug Pharma Industry which is part of a larger drug industry which is one of the top earners of profit for the power elite (less that .01 percent) who own 96 percent + of the wealth, fund both political parties, have all the politicians in their pocket at every level, own all the major TV , Radio and news media that pipe propaganda into your head 24/7 and own almost everything you are dependent on -roads, cities, power, health services, housed cars etc. and almost everyone works for them as serfs or slaves with no ownership in those enterprises whatsoever and the overriding mission of the elite is to achieve absolute power and control over the US population.

    Its a system of economic fascism approaching near perfect totalitarianism.
    You have already lost lowlander. You don’t even know your enemy so you have no hope of winning or surviving.

    —-

      • Anon,

        As this website exists as an online community of sorts, I am now looking for feedback, on what has transpired between skybluesight and myself, in this comment thread.

        These two brief comments that you’ve offered provide the first first feedback I’ve received.

        You explain, “My comment above was in response to skybluesight’s entire entry on January 22, 2014 at 6:01 pm.”

        That line, of yours, refers to your preceding comment.

        Hence, you are making readers aware that the preceding comment is your message to skybluesight; there, you are offering praise for his comment, on January 22, 2014 at 6:01 pm.

        It is really high praise. You say, “Your words are very insightful, and you may have just turned a few people’s world views upside down. Or outside, in, as the case may be.”

        Of course, you are aware that that comment of his is largely a critique of me.

        And, it seems to me, that skybluesight has been quite unfair in his characterizations of me, in many of his comments.

        That comment seems particularly harsh, especially in its first few paragraphs.

        He accuses me of attacking himself and others.

        He never says who those others are.

        Nor does he say how I’ve attacked anyone.

        I don’t believe I have attacked anyone.

        From what you’re saying, should I gather that you feel skybluesight has accurately characterized me and my actions?

        I am sincerely curious, do you feel he has been entirely fair, in assessing me, as he does?

        Do you think he is correct, regarding literally everything he says of me?

        I am very interested to know…

        Respectfully,

        Jonah

        • Jonah,

          I have only marginally followed the exchanges between you and skybluesight. Even if I did follow them well, I wouldn’t weigh in on them anyway; it is between you and him.

          All I will say is that searching for validation from everyone you converse with on the web is a “fool’s errand”. No, I am not calling you a fool. I mean it is not a pursuit that can be realistically achieved, and even if you did achieve it through some miracle of random sampling, what would you gain from it? Maybe it’s better to disagree and to teach or learn something than to just discuss things with those that already agree with you.

          For the comment where I wrote that it was in response to the “entire” post, maybe it would have been better stated if I had used the term “theme” or “gist” of the post. skybluesight nailed it once again when he wrote
          “The post he referred to is about far more than you, it is to everyone, another way of looking at some things – where you are involved it is personally impersonal.” I was reading it as a generic “you”, not that it was personal to you, and that it was directed at a mindset. If you happen to have that mindset, so be it.

          The following is what I took from his comment on Jan 22 at 6:01. I have tried to use the simplest analogy possible, skybluesight can correct me if I am wrong.

          There are two forces on either end of a rope, the psychiatric community and those they label/treat/ostracize. They are engaged in a constant battle, with a little ground being won and lost on both sides all the time. But that isn’t the real fight. skybluesight saw that the tug-of-war was inside of us, between healthy and unhealthy. So, he dropped the rope and found a way to heal. He probably drew on all kinds of people and experiences to do so.

          The tug-of-war is no longer his battle. A man not pulling on the rope doesn’t define himself in the world that exists on either end of the rope. Not the one of the psychiatric community on a mission to force people to be well, nor the one where people exist in a world where their definition of themselves, and even their healing, is in response to what the psychiatric community isn’t. What would happen to you if the whole psychiatric community disappeared tomorrow? Would you still be clinging to the rope, lost without the forces that would pull against you, stuck in unhealthy?

          Can’t you see how free he is now he is not in that war? So, I don’t expect it goes over well with him when others ask him to take up the rope again. I think it is awesome that he is trying to show others the way he took to healing and freedom. It makes a whole paradigm shift in thinking, from a world where you are acted upon and react, to one where you win your battles inside of yourself.

          skybluesight – You’re very welcome, and of course I was sincere, life is way too short not to be 🙂

          • P.S. — Anon,

            In the reply comment that I just posted, to you (directly above), I offered the following lines,

            “It seems to me, that maybe (just maybe) he’d like to develop a system of non-medical coercive ‘mental health’ (IMHO, such a system would be an abomination).

            Upon rereading those lines, now, I believe they could be misread.

            So, here I’ll be perfectly clear:

            1. I am totally opposed to medical-coercive Psychiatry.

            2. I am also totally opposed to coercive psychotherapy.

            Essentially, I am entirely opposed to coercive ‘mental health care’ in all its possible forms — as I deeply believe that everyone should be afforded freedom of thought, always.

          • @ Anon, Very well said, right on ad beautifully expressed.
            ..
            Yes, “inside yourself’. This is it, the inner world. I wish I had had someone like my post-cure self to explain things to me long before that. The wild ride and long road I took might have been much different.
            After I passed over, I reviewed my life and I wondered why with amazement, from all the counselors, shrinks and workers I had seen in my life from all those I had sought out help, why no one had ever told me about this really simple stuff – about emotions, about how they worked , how they could transform and how they were related.
            ..
            But now I know , sadly why…in the general public their meta consciousness, their awareness of their consciousness is very very under-developed and social oppression helps to keep it that way.

            Yes, there is a lot of work to be done.