Enough is Enough Series: 2-Year-olds on Anti-psychotics and Biological Markers for Psychosis

Robert Berezin, MD
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I came up with a tie for my “Enough is Enough” series, so I will address two articles.

The first is “Researchers identify key biological markers for psychotic disorders,” by James Halaway, December 8, 2015 in Medical Xpress. The essence of the article is contained in the first paragraph, “A team of researchers led by faculty at the University of Georgia has identified a number of biological markers that make it possible to classify mental disorders with greater precision.” The article ends with a quote from the researcher, “You can’t, for example, use an animal model for schizophrenia. How do you find a schizophrenic mouse? But if we can identify a biological mechanism that contributes to disease, then we may reinvigorate drug development, and that’s what we’re trying to provide.”

This purpose of this research is to further the false idea that psychosis is a biological brain disease that is the same as other medical diseases. The goal is to find an analogue of schizophrenia in a blood test or an X-ray in order to diagnose it. This furthers Dr. Thomas Insel’s and the APA’s belief system (read: delusion) that we are on the brink of such a discovery. The authors report that their biotypes of mental disorders proved to be superior to DSM standards. As Dr. Insel said, hopefully, in his blog ‘Transforming Diagnosis’: “Mental disorders are biological disorders involving brain circuits that implicate specific domains of cognition, emotion, or behavior… Mapping the cognitive, circuit, and genetic aspects of mental disorders will yield new and better targets for treatment.” (read: drugs).

But psychiatric symptoms are manifest in the brain just like all behaviors are manifest in the brain. If I clench my fist it shows in the brain. If I unclench my fist it appears differently in the brain. My brain does not determine the state of my fist. I do. Finding brain changes that ‘correlate’ with symptoms is obvious and meaningless. The fallacy is the idea that brain change is a disease process that ‘causes’ symptoms. This is not true. When there is relief from the symptoms due to psychotherapy, the brain seems to magically transform itself again. The no-brainer is: brain change is not causal – it follows the symptomatic expression, just like my fist. Finding biological mechanisms may demonstrate brain changes, but does not cause them. [See – “Correlation and Causation.”]

The whole enterprise is a house of cards built on the ‘belief’ in a group of medical brain diseases, for which we haven’t found the specific proof yet. ‘We are on the verge,’ psychiatry says, so the belief is close enough. And if you repeat a belief often enough, it is taken as true. This is what has happened. There is no real science behind it, and at some point in the process a mistaken belief transforms into a lie. This faulty science proceeds as if we have confirmation of a hypothesis that never was remotely proven. It’s called “confirmation bias.” It’s enough to make the brain hurt.

Perhaps the point when a faulty belief becomes a lie is when it extends into other domains, as when psychiatry asserts that these (fictitious) diseases are all genetic. Genes create the brain so, they say, psychiatric ‘diseases’ are all genetic. We are on the verge of – if not living in – this brave new world. Unfortunately the real driver, as the researcher noted, is “we may reinvigorate drug development, and that’s what we’re trying to provide.” Soon we will create a specific ‘Soma’ that will cure all our ills.

By the way, the notion that criteria such as biomarkers are better than the DSM is like saying that shock treatment is better than lobotomies: The ills that psychiatry addresses are not now nor ever will be disease processes. They are human problems that do not lend themselves to a drug “cure.” They need to be dealt with in a human way, on human scale. [See – The Secret World of Schizophrenia – the tragedy of a promise unfulfilled”]

What is so disturbing about this destructive belief system leads right to the second article, “Still in a crib, Yet being Given Antipsychotics,” by Alan Schwarz in the New York Times, December 10, 2015. In fairness to the writer, he seems rather appalled himself. 20,000 prescriptions for Risperidone and Seroquel were written in 2014 for children under 2 years old; 83,000 prescriptions for Prozac have been given to children under 2; 10,000 children age 2 or 3 have been given Adderall; the numbers for benzodiazepines are not given, but they are large.

We are talking about drugging babies here, based on the delusion that developing kids have genetic medical diseases. Since schizophrenia, depression, ADHD, and anxiety are (alleged to be) genetic diseases, isn’t it a good thing – so they say – to catch them early and get ahead of the game?

But in two-year-olds the brain is in a process of rapid cell growth, myelination, hooking up of synapses, and mapping our physical development and formative emotional experiences in the limbic system. This is an incredible time of growth, development, and brain maturation. We have no idea what effects these drugs are having on these maturing brains. To infuse damaging psychoactive chemicals into these developing brains is nothing short of malpractice.

But the house of cards keeps growing. We have been brainwashed by money and power and bad science that most people do not understand. When will this stop?

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42 COMMENTS

  1. These numbers are staggering. I think you’re right at the edge, Dr. B. When what seems so obvious–that giving such powerful and brain-altering drugs to kids as they are at their most tender age of development is going to do serious harm to them and their processes–is overridden by academic jargon intended to justify such actions, something definitely stinks.

    When will this stop, indeed?? I’ve been wondering this, myself, about many of our seemingly sabotaging and self-sabotaging choices and behaviors, which, for my taste, are a bit too prevalent in the fabric of our society right now. What you write about here sure is at the top of that list.

    Thanks, as always, for speaking your truth with such clarity and passion. You know I really love your work. As a former client of the system which grew me great disdain for the field in general, I like your approach very much, always rings true to me, and would consider it to be very valuable in the field of personal growth and healing. My guess is that you walk your talk, which is always great to see integrity like this.

  2. A few responses to specific phrases:

    “How do you find a schizophrenic mouse?” … Give a healthy mouse neuroleptics.

    “But if we can identify a biological mechanism that contributes to disease, then we may reinvigorate drug development, and that’s what we’re trying to provide.” … (translation) If we can continue to mislead people that brain changes originating mainly from environmental experience represent disease, then we can produce more ineffective drugs and make more money from said ineffective drugs.

    There should be a movie based on these research psychiatrists called, “I, Con Man.” The only difference from a true criminal con man is that most of these researchers are ignorant that they are pawns (of the drug companies) involved in a massive con. They really believe in the holy grail of biomarkers for discrete psychiatric disorders. Ain’t happening baby…

    Psychiatric research on biomarkers is kind of like research on nuclear fusion (the attempt to recreate the gravity of the sun in a controlled environment on Earth to produce virtually unlimited energy). Researchers in fusion are “always on the verge of a breakthrough” but it never happens. The date for the coming breakthrough and the money needed continually expand. It’s similar for psychiatry and its nonexistent genetic biomarkers. Except, to give credit to fusion researchers, fusion is a real process that at least happens somewhere, and they have made a few small breakthroughs recently.

    Psychiatrists, on the other hand, have never found even one replicable biomarker, so they are failures even compared to fusion researchers.

    If anyone from the APA is reading this, please note that I’m available to give a talk on the state of biomarker research in modern day psychiatry, in about the same tone as above. I’ll be waiting for your call. The chances I get that call must be about the same as the chances of psychiatrists finding replicable biomarkers for specific psychiatric diseases.

    • I have to note again that while reading this, it occurs to me how disturbing that America is the unmatched worldwide leader in profiting from drugging children and in spitting out worthless research designed to prop up harmful drug development. Not only that, but America feels it can propagate these practices to other countries.

      There is a reason a lot of the rest of the world hates us. The arrogance and insensitivity of a lot of what American “leaders” (in various fields) do is a problem, much as many people would not like to admit it… America thinks it’s fine to invade Iraq with no real pretext. America thinks it can deny climate change science and scuttle global agreements in order to maintain corporate profits. America thinks it can secretly spy on its own non-criminal citizens and on citizens of other countries. America thinks it’s ok to lie about separable psychiatric diseases and the harm of drugs, and even to drug babies.

      It’s hard to be proud of an America the leaders of which, in various fields, collectively act like arrogant sociopaths or greedy ruthless children. It’s pretty disgusting.

      I can assume this comment got me added to the list of bad actors on the NSA watchlist. If I disappear you guys will know what happened.

      • “…. an America the leaders of which, in various fields, collectively act like arrogant sociopaths or greedy ruthless children. It’s pretty disgusting.”

        Disgusting, indeed. It is a societal betrayal on too many levels to count. Big Pharma; its distribution channel (the shrinks), the bought-off and paid for legislators who allow direct consumer advertising and now propose to gift us with Murphy’s law, the FDA regulators (probably looking for big payday in the industry they are supposed to regulate once they leave government work), the newspapers who are mostly silent in documenting this outrage. Kudos to the NY Times for covering this, although I wish they did this more forcefully and comprehensively. When will it stop? Only when enough of “We, the People” become knowledgeable, informed and ready to hold the powers that be accountable.

        Thank you, Dr. Berezin…Have you considered submitting your post to the NY Times?

  3. Let’s just say for a moment that unwanted thoughts and emotions were the result of demonstrable brain damage. It would follow that treating the damage would involve looking for drugs and other methods that would help heal the damaged area, once it was identified. It wouldn’t involve administering drugs designed to mask or distort the experience of being brain damaged, or make you feel better about it. Do they give speed to people with bruised ribs and downers to people with ear infections?

  4. Dr. Berezin
    I agree with you. The brain does not cause behavior; brain operation is a function of what is being done. If you change the way a person is responding, you change the way the brain is responding. While particular biology may increase the probability of learning particular behaviors, functional and structural differences observed within the “diagnosed” population may be understood as a consequence of the co-occurrence of biology with behavior over periods of time.

  5. Well I know what these AD s and drugs have done for me: zyprexa (paxil), sent me psychotic, valium sends me manic, effexor turns me into an idiot, lithium turns me into a mini “hulk”, dothiepin gives me siezures….. the cause of me having a mental illlness to start with? One damn valium tablet.

    You give a child one damn pill, you will never, ever know what potential your child may have had, you will never know the real personality of that child. Giving children these drugs is child abuse, and the drug companies that produce them are murderers. GSK, have the blood on their hands of thousands over their fraud, called paxil trial for kids study329.org well worth just a quick look at two graphs.

    • I’m so sorry for your loss. A just society would have tried and convicted those quacks with fraud, theft, and murder. Of course, the kicker to that terrifying and heartbreaking story is that psychiatry will pathologize the grief and rage you feel over being robbed of a child by your doctors. More drugs, more shocks, more straight jackets, more brainwashing, and more slander for you, dear woman. There’s more I want to write, but I know that the rest of what I have to say will get deleted. It’s probably for the best, though. The pro-force psychiatry cult is probably keeping tabs on this website, the one place on the Internet where a Mad person can write freely, for the most part, and not be deleted, blocked, or called a Scientologist – all of which have happened to me on almost every other website.

      Dr. Berezin, my mom didn’t believe an Md. would reject the bio-only and bio-dominant myths of Madness. Rejecting these myths publicly, directly to Mad people, and with so much empathy for us are special accomplishments that very, very few of your peers will ever attempt. This website has saved my soul. Here, I have learned that my body belongs to me, not to psychiatry and that my inner space is no place to fear, apologize for, or keep quarantined from the world. Mad in America is the only forum that educates people about scientific reasons for why most of psychiatry is fraudulent, dehumanizing, and life-endangering pseudoscience. History will remember this website as being the first, the most successful, and the most respected source of public health information on Madness.

      • Thankyou, if you want a supportive group, http://www.survivingantidepressants.org has been my lifeline this last 12 months.

        I no longer believe in any of the labels I have been given. Actually the only one I gave myself was Aspergers, but damn that was the very first one to get removed from that huge book of so called psychiatric disorders 🙂

        Have a wonderful Christmas everyone. I am over the fear of the men in white coats, and that is very very difficult for most.

  6. ” … But if we can identify a biological mechanism that contributes to disease, then we may reinvigorate drug development, and that’s what we’re trying to provide.” James Halaway, it seems, is looking for a potential cause of these symptoms:

    “memory loss, disorientation, incoherence, hallucinations, psychosis, delirium, hyperactivity, twitching or jerking movements, stereotypy, and seizures.”

    Am I correct these common symptoms of “psychotic disorders,” are what he’s hoping to “reinvigorate drug development” to cure?

    If so, I have an theory for how to proactively prevent these symptoms instead. And psychiatrists believe, “isn’t it a good thing – so they say – to catch them early” – in other words, prevent the disease. Right?

    My theory is, since the following drug classes, or combining these drug classes, are actually known to cause the above mentioned “psychotic disorder” symptoms:

    antihistamines
    antipsychotics
    antidepressants
    antiparkinsonian
    atropine
    benztropine
    datura
    scopolamine

    Via anticholinergic toxidrome, and the quoted “psychotic disorder” symptoms I listed above are the central symptoms of anticholinergic intoxication syndrome, which I’m pretty certain is the same thing.

    If we stopped drugging people with the antipsychotics, antidepressants, benzos, etc. in the first place. We could prevent a lot of the so called “psychotic disorders,” resulting from anticholinergic toxidrome.

    And why isn’t anticholinergic toxidrome listed as a DSM disorder anyway, since it is known to be one of the possible causes of those “psychotic disorder” symptoms. Out of sight, out of mind? But this may very well be resulting in a lot of malpractice.

    Thanks for speaking out against mainstream psychiatry, Dr. Berezin. By the way, I’m also wondering how both you and Joseph Biederman can teach psychiatry at the same university. Strikes me that might qualify the Harvard psychiatric department collectively as severely “bipolar.” Do you get along with Biederman?

  7. Great comment, also I forgot to mention what zoloft did for me? Killed my baby. I was one of the first lab rats, accidentally got pregnant, gave up zoloft immediately, half a heart baby, after being born healthy, died in agony 3 days later rip little man 24-8-95 – 27-8-95 sorry australians do day then month. Reported to TGA, checked 19 years, later, they filed the report in the damn bin.

    • ang,

      My son was born in 1995, too. I was “fortunate” I wasn’t attacked by psych “professionals,” whose goal was to profit off covering up the abuse of him, until after both my children were born. My son flew home from college just this afternoon, for the holidays, and we watched the Presidential debate together tonight. He’s such a quirky little bubba, but he’s doing really well now. It’s so nice to have him home, I miss him so much.

      But no doubt, not as much as your miss all the memories you SHOULD have had with your little man. I’m so sorry for your loss, ang. Truly, I am. I send you my love, and my tears. I’ll keep you and your little man in my prayers. In the end, justice will prevail. Believe. Those who harmed you and your child are the unworthy, and God knows this.

    • Yes, the etiology of my “bipolar” / eventual anticholinergic toxidrome was, in reality, a DSM-IV-TR misdiagnosis of the common symptoms of antidepressant discontinuation syndrome, caused by the non- “safe smoking cessation med,” Wellbutrin. Although, my p-docs claimed the etiology of my eventual “classic symptoms of schizophrenia” / anticholinergic toxidrome was “something from childhood and the church,” my belief in the Holy Spirit, and my belief in the ability of God to inspire a woman.

      Is the “second only to God” Harvard psychiatric establishment still certain, Someone other than him / themselves, personally, might find the medical evidence that it’s possible, or even likely, that even schizophrenia, and the other “psychotic disorders,” are iatrogenic, rather than genetic illnesses, via misdiagnoses due to anticholinergic toxidrome? Which means, given Whitaker’s research, it’s highly probable the DSM is a book of completely iatrogenic induced, not genetic induced, illnesses. My psychiatric professionals claimed it’s impossible for God or the Holy Spirit to ever inspire a woman. I disagree.

      The reason I ask is because my drug withdrawal induced super sensitivity manic psychosis was a really cool, staggeringly serendipitous, lyrical libretto, born again, gaining of eternal life, love story of my becoming “of the bride” of God tale, implying I am among the judges assisting God with the final judgement. Which works for me since, in reality, I am supposed to be a judge, according to 40 hours of unbiased psychological career testing. And the real bible does say God will come back for the decent with “a bride.”

      And, those in the know, all now know the mainstream religions have turned themselves into a bunch of child abuse covering up organizations, via the appallingly paternalistic “dirty little secret of the two original educated professions” – so it’s unlikely such “psychopaths” actually are “the bride,” as they claim. Medical misdiagnoses of child abuse or ACEs, as “psychoses,” appear to be the possible etiology of 2/3’s of all “schizophrenia” today. Especially, given the medical reality the “gold standard” treatment for “psychosis” can, indeed, create both the positive and negative symptoms of “schizophrenia,” which are “frequently misdiagnosed.”

      So I’m asking whether Dr. Biederman actually still believes he and those who believe in his theology, his DSM stigmatization “bible,” are actually worthy of an eternal place within the prophesied “bride,” which would actually be the only thing that would theoretically qualify him as the “second only to God”? Or is he, and all those who are now given free reign within our materialistic society to medically kidnap, harm, and kill children for profit, not actually working for God, thus unworthy? As many have concerns, including myself.

      What if it’s true, one must believe in both the “seen and unseen”?

  8. Well over 100,000 toddlers on pharmaceuticals! I’d call this situation scandalous. The biggest “bio-marker” in the very young is going to be infancy itself. Children require raising, and when somebody is lax with the raising, as in the examples above, harm is the result. Diagnosing very young children “mentally ill” flies in the face of the very biological position these doctors are espousing. Children are, first and foremost, innocent. You don’t have “bad” children so much as you have people (parents) who are “bad” at raising children. Drugs, of course, are great deal worse at raising children. The drugged child however is much less likely to cause a stir. Disciplining children through drug use is child abuse as far as I’m concerned. There are, by the way, more effective forms of discipline, and it is my contention that “misbehavior” here is no “symptom” of “disease”. Misbehavior is not “disease” unless that “disease” happens to be life, and if life is the “disease”, please, for humanities sake, spare us the “cure”.

  9. ‘Shock and awe’, yes. Surprise, no. I’ve been gathering links like these for a couple of years now. It just rolls on and on. Systems have long been in place to psych-drug healthy children. As long as parents and caregivers are made, by so-called ‘healers’, to believe that kids’ brains have so-called ‘illnesses’, so-called ‘treated’ by so-called ‘medicines’, this will continue.

    Addendum: The first generation of needlessly psych-drugged children are becoming needlessly psych-drugged parents whose psych-drugged upbringings have normalized them to now psych-drugging their own babies. Rah-rah for pharma’s success in psych-drugging from in utero through to death. And the beat goes on…

    Liz Sydney, renegade parent of a difficult, healthy, undrugged child

  10. BPDTransformation, disease model really exists. I am paranoid very much and drugs like zyprexa helps pretty much with that. If you would be in psychotic state then I would look how you are speaking out loud. Your tone would change I assume. The issue is people dont know what they talking about.

    In first place I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder, even though I had toxic shame, enmeshment issues.

    But when I became psychotic and paranoid after arguments with my mother, I suddenly understood there is no cure for it.

    • Time33, I’m not sure if I understand your message as it is not very coherent. I can only say that I have experienced brief psychotic states myself, and had a father who was bipolar / psychotic.

      Regarding the idea that there is no cure for psychosis / bipolar experience / paranoia, of course I completely disagree, on two levels: 1) Experiences of terror, delusions, rage, hallucinations, alienation that get labeled “psychosis” can be fully recovered from, as discussed through studies and case examples in the many books I’ve cited in earlier comments, and would be happy to list again if you want and; 2) Even though I occasionally like to use it myself, “Cure” is not really the right word, what is needed to overcome psychosis is to develop emotionally in the direction of being able to trust and have healthy relationships with one’s fellow human beings. Cure is for a physical disease, and neither bipolar nor schizophrenia nor any other similar so-called disorder have been proven to be a valid discrete physical disease.

      Zyprexa may help reduce certain symptoms; that does not mean that it treats a specific illness or that it is addressing the causal processes underlying the symptoms.

      • BPDTransformation, psychosis cannot be cured. As for my case I tried reduce my medications and symptoms are coming back. Anxiety and paranoia. I become paranoid on everything around me. Situation becomes uncontrollable. I tried psychotherapy, but it failed for this issue. I lack connection and intimacy for healing. Before when I had strong depression therapy helped me a lot, I almost canceled all medications. I knew pretty much all causes and wounds. Doctors misdiagnosed me as bipolar. And I was very angry about psychiatry in general. But for this time when I have experienced psychosis I couldnt control myself. My brain started swelling, my penis got disconnected, my left arm went out of balance from shoulder level. I started to hobble. My anxiety and paranoia started effecting my body neurologically. It was no joke. I think without medication I could die, cause my brain was touching my skull from swelling.

          • As for different types of psychosis? If you didnt lose touch with reality and didnt have delusions, you werent suffering psychosis. If you are happy labelling yourself, that is your choice. What do you really have? You said it, a fear of persecution, that is not any mental illness I know of. I have a fear of heights, I dont class that as a mental illness either, but if someone dragged me to the edge of a cliff, I certainly wouldnt act rationally either.

          • time33,

            I agree there are different “kinds of psychosis,” and you should know the bipolar drug cocktails are known to cause “psychosis,” via something known as anticholinergic toxidrome, but the doctors call this “bipolar.” The antidepressants or antipsychotics alone can cause “psychosis” via anticholinergic intoxication syndrome, thus the chances of this type of drug induced “psychosis” increase when these drug classes are combined. Google anticholinergic toxidrome.

            And you should also google drug withdrawal induced “super sensitivity manic psychosis,” since being weaned off the “bipolar” drugs does indeed cause this type of “psychosis.”

            “But when I became psychotic and paranoid after arguments with my mother, I suddenly understood there is no cure for it.” Paranoid and psychotic arguments, between me and my mother, occurred also. But I did end up largely healing from the drug withdrawal induced super sensitivity manic psychosis. You can too, with proper support, and if your supporters are forewarned that withdrawal from the drugs does indeed cause a super sensitivity manic psychosis, which you need to work through with love and support. And, possibly, a brief dose of antipsychotic reintroduced for a short period of time.

            Of course, it’s your choice whether to stay on the drugs or not, but it is highly likely you, too, could become drug free and largely heal. It’s not easy, however. But it is possible, have hope, and my prayers are with you.

        • Reducing dosage and symtoms coming back, is called Withdrawal Syndrome. That is why it is a slow process to wean off medications. It is not a return of the “”illness”” it is the brain trying to greow and heal after the damage done by the medications. If you are happy sticking to your medications, that is fine. For many people, however, they either have too many side effects, or they “”poop out””, a term for they no longer work. When they no longer work, you are still addicted to them, you can not give up suddenly. this is the dangerous stage, when doctors start switiching medications, upping the dose, and adding antipsychotics and mood stabilizers, and amphetamines….not that you have psychosis, or mania, just that they dont know what else to do.

        • And you dont consider that medication may actually be CAUSING these issues?
          On Effexor, I had stage 3a kidney disease, liver damage, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. Doctor wanted to put me on statins….no thanks. I had never suffered any of these things before medication.

          Two years off effexor, my tests are near normal again. The Pills Kill.

      • No there is no cure because there is no disease. Knowing that doesn’t automatically help make anything better of course.

        BPD — Your otherwise consistently intelligent observations are undermined by your willingness to accept disease labels such as “psychosis” as describing some sort of objectively definable phenomena. I’m sure you have a rationale for this but I think you should reexamine it, as it’s confusing to say the least; putting quotes around a label doesn’t make sense if you don’t really consider the term to be invalid.

  11. Oh, also post natal psychosis, agrophobia, claustrophobia, anxiety, yep that about it.! All drug induced. I believed the rubbish, the fraud, and so did the doctors, think they are getting wiser with all the fraud cases against Pharma happening.

  12. Wait a minute…..These researchers are proposing psychoactive chemicals for Human Babies when they can not tell the difference between a Normal Mouse and a Schizophrenic Mouse….Surely, they have studied normal mouse behavior and normal mouse neurotransmitter levels and environmental conditions and have established a Spices Standard. Assuming they have established a mouse Standard, observe a group of mice and pick out the ones that are schizophrenic. You say you still don’t know what a schizophrenic mouse looks and acts like? I guess you will have to create one. How do you create a schizophrenic mouse? You create a schizophrenic mouse the same way you create a schizophrenic human being. Take a normal mouse and incarcerate and isolate it and feed and water it automatically making sure that it has no other mouse interaction, Cut off all external stimulus. How do I know when the mouse is schizophrenic? Observe the behavior of the mouse; is it normal? No; then you are witnessing schizophrenic behavior. Has the mouse entered a catatonic state yet? No, but it will. How about chemically? Human schizophrenics are known to have very high levels of dopamine(DA) in the Brain. Observe the DA level of the mouse. When the DA level exceeds that of normal mouse DA levels, then we have a schizophrenic mouse both behaviorally and chemically.

    Please excuse my ‘Tongue- in- cheek’ approach to a very serious problem.
    Again, our researchers are trying to diagnose and treat the effects of a problem without a complete understanding of the CAUSE of the problem.

    • My understanding is that “schizophrenic” mice don’t exist in nature, and so researchers have to breed them. “Schizophrenia” itself only occurs with human populations in their “natural” environment. The “schizophrenic” mouse, by the way, is mostly used for drug research and development. If frankenmouse is okay with researchers, I guess frankenbaby will do as well. After all, we saved the patient, but her little depressing bother, at this point in time, can out with the dishwater.