Lou Reed: That Which Does Not Kill Us Can Radicalize Us


While not as well-known as “Walk on the Wild Side” and “Perfect Day,” and not one of the classics he wrote for the Velvet Underground (such as “Heroin” and “I’ll Be Your Mirror”), Lou Reed’s “Kill Your Sons,” about his electroconvulsive “therapy” (ECT) as a 17-year-old, gives voice to an event that majorly radicalized him to distrust authorities. That is the conclusion of Aidan Levy in Dirty Blvd.: The Life and Music of Lou Reed, one of several recent biographies about Lou Reed (1942-2013).

“All your two-bit psychiatrists are giving you electroshock,” is how Reed begins “Kill Your Sons,” and though in Lou’s case, ECT trauma would fuel his art, such trauma often only destroys; as the ECT that Ernest Hemingway and William Styron received late in their lives only served to hasten their end. And even in Reed’s case, his ECT fueled not just his art but his rage, which sometimes hurt people who cared about him.

As a teenager living in suburban Freeport, Long Island, Lou felt alienated. He became increasingly anxious and “resistant to most socializing, unless it was on his terms,” according to his sister Merrill Reed Weiner, whose parents were overwhelmed by her brother’s behaviors and by his disregard of them, and so they sought treatment for Lou. They would comply with a psychiatrist’s recommendation.

In the summer of 1959, Lou was administered 24 ECT sessions at two-day intervals at Creedmoor State Psychiatric Hospital in Queens, New York. Weiner recalls, “I watched my brother as my parents assisted him coming back into our home afterwards, unable to walk, stupor-like. It damaged his short term memory horribly and throughout his life he struggled with memory retention, probably directly as a result of those treatments.”

Lou Reed loved evocative lyrics—his own and others—and my guess is that he would have appreciated the description of his ECT by Aidan Levy:

The doctor paced back to the machine, then the two trembling orderlies, barely out of high school and only a year older than Lou was, laid across his chest and knees to brace him for the shock to come. He had read Frankenstein;now he was living it. The doctor flipped the switch on the metal box, the size of a small amplifier, and Lou Reed, who had up to that moment in his life been an acoustic being, became quite literally electrified.

Weiner continues to be pained by her brother’s ECT, and she feels sorry for their parents who, she tells us, may have been guilty of much poor parenting but not, as some have suggested, of seeking treatment for Lou’s homosexual urges.

Weiner remains angered by doctors for destroying her family, concluding that “the ‘help’ they received from the medical community set into motion the dissolution of my family of origin for the rest of our lives. . . . My parents were like lambs being led to the slaughter — confused, terrified, and conditioned to follow the advice of doctors. . . . Our family was torn apart the day they began those wretched treatments.”

Levy concludes about Lou’s ECT, “The punishment solidified Lou’s unflappable spirit of rebellion.” While psychiatry rejects Levy’s view of ECT as “punishment,” Lou himself would likely have agreed with this Levy analysis: “His parents and by extension civilized society objected to his defiance—even then, he refused to play by anyone else’s rules, and as punishment for breaking them, he faced an adolescent’s worst nightmare.”

Prior to his ECT, Levy notes, “Lou had already embraced the counterculture, but electroshock secured his allegiance to the underground. If he wanted to escape, he would have to do it himself. No one, not anyone in mainstream society at least, would do it for him. He would later dedicate his life to exposing the seamy underbelly beneath the sanitized reality presented by the mainstream, eternally distrustful of any authority figure, especially any record executive, after he had seen authority be so wrong.”

Lou’s talents enabled his rage over his ECT to be transformed into the kind of art that deeply touched society’s outcasts and victims of illegitimate authority. But while Lou found artistic fuel from his ECT, it scarred him with an unpleasant defensiveness. Throughout much of his life, Lou would protect himself by attacking, and he was often viewed, even by his friends and lovers, as a “jerk” and an “asshole.”

Psychiatry would prefer the general public hear ECT testimonials from advocates such as Kitty Dukakis rather than the ECT realities of Lou Reed as well as of other public figures for whom ECT was a disaster, a lengthy list including Ernest Hemingway and William Styron.

A seriously depressed Hemingway was treated with ECT as many as 15 times in December 1960, then in January 1961, he was “released in ruins,” according to one biographer Jeffrey Meyers. Another biographer and close friend, A. E. Hotchner reported in Papa Hemingway  that Hemingway’s loss of memory caused by the ECT made him even more depressed and hopeless, as Hemingway had stated, “Well, what is the sense of ruining my head and erasing my memory, which is my capital, and putting me out of business?” In July 1961, shortly before his 62nd birthday and soon after Hemingway had been given still another series of shock treatments, his end came by suicide with a shotgun.

William Styron is another ECT casualty. In a 2019 article “William Styron: His Struggles with Psychiatry and Its Pills,” journalist Joshua Kendall reports that in early 2000, when Styron became even more depressed while on the antidepressant Wellbutrin, he became desperate and vulnerable to quick fix recommendations. Kendall reports:

“The quick fix that Styron settled on was ECT. ‘One of the reasons that he wanted to try ECT was that he had had such a bad experience with drugs, and he didn’t want to take another one,” Rose [Styron’s wife] says. . . . Once when Rose accompanied him to an ECT treatment, he yelled at her, ‘You’re killing me!’ . . . .The ECT was then abandoned, but not before possibly causing the Parkinsonian symptoms that emerged that summer, as Alexandra [Styron’s daughter] notes in her memoir.”

Many Americans are surprised to discover that ECT continues to be used as a psychiatric treatment. Psychiatry is well aware of ECT’s negative public image, so in recent years, its administration is not as painful to observe as it once was. Unlike Lou, patients today are given an anesthetic and oxygen along with a muscle relaxant drug to prevent fractures. However, while ECT no longer appears quite as torturous to observers as it appeared prior to these procedure changes, ECT’s effects on the brain are as damaging as ever. Moreover, as I detailed in 2017 (The Electrical Abuse of Women: Does Anyone Care?), a recent comprehensive review of the research on ECT effectiveness concluded that there is “no evidence that ECT is more effective than placebo for depression reduction or suicide prevention.”

For Lou, it is likely that in addition to his ECT at Creedmoor State Psychiatric Hospital in Queens, simply being a patient there cemented his strong reciprocal connection with society’s “untouchables.” I grew up in Rockaway, Queens, and telling another kid that “you belong in Creedmoor” was one of the greatest of insults that we hurled at one another. And so Lou was handed the choice of either being shamed by his outcast status or celebrating it. He had the courage to celebrate it.

I also spent some time in Creedmoor, but under very different circumstances than Lou. In 1976, a locked ward at Creedmoor served as my first trainee internship, and it was here that I began to be embarrassed by my chosen mental health profession, especially by its dehumanizing attempts to control people. While psychiatrists utilized drugs and ECT to control patients, psychologists’ arsenal of control included “behavior modification,” which included the “token economy.”

During my internship at Creedmoor, I recall one severely depressed man who refused to talk to staff but who chose me for some reason to shoot pool with. Spotting my interaction with him, a clinical psychologist, my boss, told me that I should give him a token—a cigarette—to reward his “prosocial behavior.” I fought it, trying to explain that I was 20 and this man was 50, and that it was humiliating to treat the man in the manner of training a dog. But the psychologist threatened to kick me off the ward. So with staff watching—but not hearing—from behind the nurse’s station window (similar to what I had just seen in the 1975 film “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”),  I asked the man what I should do. Fighting the zombifying effects of his heavy medication, he grinned and said, “We’ll win… let me have the cigarette.” In full view of staff, he took the cigarette and then placed it into the shirt pocket of another patient. Next, he shot a look at the staff which clearly expressed: “I may be a patient in Creedmoor but you staff are the truly sick ones.”

While most students training to become mental health professionals are initially jarred by their observations of dehumanizing chemical-electrical-behavioral controls, many of them become numb to these experiences and go on to become professionals who repeat these practices. For other students, these upsetting experiences kill their interest in a career in psychiatry, psychology, and the mental health profession. But for a small handful who do not exit the profession, these observations radicalize them and compel them to resist and speak out.


Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.


  1. Bruce, this is so amazing. You are one of THEIR worst enemies. I hope you keep yourself well protected because THEY tend to retaliate. I love your writings so much and because of this I am very very proud to call myself antiauthoritarian. I hope to get a diagnosis of the severest form of oppositional defiant disorder possible. Disorder? No, it is what keeps me alive, keeps me speaking out when others cannot or are afraid to, keeps me telling the truth. I must do this, as I see it as a sacred duty as a writer. I really hope they hate me, too. I should add, too, that I was a Lou Reed fan. Now I know why.

  2. Bruce, there is growing momentum for a campaign — conducted along with other related campaigns — to delegitimize psychiatry as a field of medicine, both in the common perception and via withdrawal of recognition by whatever institutional “authorities” are deemed the arbiters of such “official” certification. Would you be in support of this?

  3. Loved Lou’s song, Kill Your Sons. Another good one is Billy Was A Friend of Mine. It’s about the choices people make, and how sometimes one path doesn’t lead you to the place where you thought it might have led you.

    Lou mentions the effects of Thorazine in the song Kill Your Sons, too. “All of the drugs, that we took, it really was lots of fun But when they shoot you up with thorazine on crystal smoke You choke like a son of a gun.” There’s that difference between psych drugs and recreational drugs again. I had a friend, now deceased, who was there at the counter when this lady he knew, on a neuroleptic, choked on a donut. She ultimately ended up in a coma, and then had the plug pulled on her. Apparently her brain had been deprived of oxygen for too long a time.

    Shock treatment was more utilized as a general purpose treatment (cough, cough) before the development of neuroleptics. I know of a person now who is on court ordered ECT treatments. I think that’s really scary. Apparently things haven’t changed so much after all. Why, in other words, court ordered shock? The “mental health” authorities have to keep this guy alive at all costs? You think? I wonder what is really going on there. One thing I don’t think the courts should be doing is forcing harmful treatments on people, and that, in his case, is exactly what they’re doing.

  4. Thank You for this important article. Hemingway, Plath, especially poets, were terrorized by psychiatric monotheism. Because monotheistic anti human scientism have killed metaphor first. Nazis party and their anti human utopian ideology is the source of the greatest evil today.

    The roots of psychiatric slavery = psychological monotheism. Monotheism is a form of a very destructive and limited thinking.


    “This idealized unity requires for its earthly realization, an ideal man, the Hero, who can receive the (divine) commands and overcome in his own person and at large, the obstacles that stand in the way. These obstacles must also have a mythic dimension. Whether the story is retold in an Islamic, Christian, Jewish or Hindu setting, some dragon of dangerous strength must have its head chopped off, traitors everywhere must be sought out and eliminated since, ‘you are either with us, or against us’. The Marxists, therefore, require(d) the Capitalists, the Western Powers their Communist threat and more recently, Muslims, who in turn, require the Great Satan and their own heretics. In sum, the heroic requires problems and, by implication, Final Solutions.

    Similarly, psychological monotheism tends to regard difference and diversity as irreconcilable opposites and reduces all psychological life to moral issues. Particularly in the light of the impossible-to-resolve ‘Problem of Evil’ in Christianism, this kind of moral reductionism and its fusion with the heroic archetype, provides the justification for all types of action and violence against whatever seems ‘outside,’ a prescribed idea of ‘unity’. Thus, Jung’s view of the West’s ‘monotheism of consciousness’ is directly related to the internalizing of a particular type of Christianity. As both he and Hillman reiterate, it does not matter if one is a Christian or not, ‘believer’ or atheist. Rather, it is a particularly narrow psychological attitude towards self, others, religion, knowledge, in short, life itself.

    James Hillman “Re -Visioning psychology”
    Thomas Szasz – “Manufacture of madness”

    Everything should be clear after reading these books.
    Psychopathology is a metaphor, the form of the highest psychological art. And authoritarians and their small brains are destroying people in the name of their lame materialistic and convenient fantasy about mental health – apollonian – hegemony.

    The problem is the limited monotheistic psychology, not the human psyche.

  5. Really scary indeed.
    When “mental health ” authorities have their focus on a person, what they “so expertly testify too” and readily lie about commands the court .This is for the “benefit” of the “patient”,”society”, and “their own careers ” ,weather in person or by amplified phone call to the “court”. , The general result is predetermined choreographed, the players march in lockstep their boot heels collectively on the person’s neck. The Judge and mha’s protect their own asses . The person is generally too poor to afford real representation and the court appointed public defender is in on the act. This is a KANGAROO COURT . I tried once to hire a former prosecuting attorney that was now in private practice in Oregon over the phone , that at first wouldn’t admit it but once I told her what I had clearly seen agreed with me that a person alone with a public defender in court opposed to “mental health authorities” is in a KANGAROO COURT.
    Bruce Levine is some kind of hero .Thank you . I just listened to Lou’s song Kill your Sons. I wasn’t previously aware of it . I can say Lou Reed is dead accurate . I also had high voltage electric shock forced on me against my will ,15 of them, one every other day over a period of a month when I was 17 in 1964 . It’s certainly to this day , along with forced injected thorazine , stelazine , haldol , starting at age 16 helped turn me into a rebel against injustice especially against psychiatric but unfortunately I’m one that doesn’t play well with others and trusting without knowing people in person and even then is very difficult for me.
    Done some good things in my life . In my youth never hid that I was in and out of “mental hospitals ” lots a times and even escaped 5 or 6 times from their clutches against their will of which I’m very proud of . One of the stupidest things I ever done– when I was 20 years old my mother begged the psychiatrist to hire me to work in the “mental hospital” as an orderly ,cause she said I was nice to people and she thought I would be good at it ,and besides I told everyone I had been in “mental hospitals” and no one else would hire me for anything close to a living wage .So I was hired and was kind as I could be to the people confined and I told people I was previously confined as they now were. In the 6 months I was there I worked with those addicted to alcohol , senior citizens, teenagers, and general population. The people and other employees liked me and I was dating a student nurse. One day the psychiatrist who helped me get hired asked me if I could assist in giving someone a high voltage electric shock treatment (he just said ECT) . I thought about it for a while and got the idea that once I was there I could maybe smash the box or stop them from shocking this person somehow. So I agreed to assist . When I actually got downstairs to where they gave the electric shock treatments they told me I’d be holding the person’s knees down when they went into convulsions and that it would prevent them from possibly breaking their legs or pulling out their muscles or knee joints . Once there I was too scared shitless to try and sabotage this high voltage electric shock “treatment” and prevent them from proceeding . I was terrified that if I did try to stop them that they would electro-shock me . I was like Winston in the George Orwell novel 1984. He was terrified of rats I was terrified of high voltage electric shock “treatments”. So I held the man’s knees down . After the one “treatment” I told the “doctor” I cannot ever do this again . And I didn’t ,they didn’t fire me . I was an orderly there at Ridgeway Hospital for 6 months in Chicago until I quit to volunteer to go to Israel to try and fight when the 6 Day War broke out in june of 1967. I arrived in Israel 2 months after the war ended.
    My favorite part about Mad in America is all the people that comment here especially the ones that recognize that at the very least forced “Treatment” must be abolished. I’m for persistence in resistance and an insistence upon justice including reparations . And the hope that psychiatry the hoax would be buried deep within the dustbin of history and that nothing like that would ever exist to torture human beings again. My best wishes to the total success of Anti-Psychiatry.

    • There was also cogentin but actually the thorazine was many times force injected , the others were mostly I took by mouth . But really I had no free choices . They were trying to chemically lobotimize me .I didn’t know it then. I always quit their shit when I got on the outside .Yet I could of been somebody. I await reparations. I had big trouble trying to sleep . At some point I was shown by a natural doctor that I had been poisoned by mercury amalgam dental work . Once I got that all removed I regained my ability to naturally sleep again . But recently after being badly injured in a car accident psychiatry captured me again for 2 months. But now I’m home again with my woman and our dog . We are together an happy again . I’m hoping I can walk again in a matter of months . I’m driving again and use canes , scooter, walker and lots of hours in a recliner where I mostly live when i’m home . I take no Big Pharma “medications ” When I sit in a chair I have no aches and physical pains. But I hate Psychiatry and Psychiatrists and those that aid them , the exceptions are rare and as Arnold would say ” I’m as back as I can be”. Maybe we could slip that ayuhausa hallucinating herb into their food and drink and they would all give up practicing psychiatry and see the folly of their ways , sort a like a hail mary.

      • Wow, Fred, that is terrible that 1. you were injured in a car accident and 2. that they decided it was a mental disorder. Yes, I agree, we all need an apology and some should get some monetary reparations. I keep thinking the lost wages for 35 years would certainly get me a big sum. I think, also, they should pay back American taxpayers who paid a bundle for my fake treatment. This includes ECT. If anyone thinks that was therapy, they’re delusional.

    • Fred, you’ve been a stranger, WTF??? Anyway please stay on our radar! Hope you’re ok.

      The legendary Howie the Harp and, especially, his partner Joyce Kasinski both had nightmarish tales to tell about Israeli psychiatry in the 70’s as well, don’t know if they might have a story about it buried somewhere in the Madness Network News archives.

      Anti-psychiatry is doing fine, come visit more often. 🙂

  6. Desired behavior is encouraged by the threat of torture under the guise of health care doublespeak and morphed into behavioral health by all means necessary. The very wealthy do as they please. The 1 % steal everything in sight . The Preachers rape children. The Psychiatrists poison them. What about their Behavior ?

      • I would discourage anyone from engaging in Open Dialoguing when really what it means is bare your soul to people being paid to keep their own true selves under lock and key.

        It’s just more bullshit wrapped up in pretty packaging.

        Never freely give something to people unwilling to reciprocate.

        Better to meet them on their own level and engage them in Open Bullshitting.

  7. I listened to the song, looked up the lyrics. Reed is very bitter. I bet no one apologized to him for the cruel injuries he was subject to.

    They never apologies.

    We must fight back.

    All your two-bit psychiatrists are giving you electro shock
    They say, they let you live at home, with mom and dad
    Instead of mental hospital
    But every time you tried to read a book
    You couldn’t get to page 17
    ‘Cause you forgot, where you were
    So you couldn’t even read
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill your sons
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    They’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    Until they run run run run run run run run away
    Mom informed me on the phone
    She didn’t know what to do about dad
    Took an axe and broke the table
    Aren’t you glad you’re married
    And sister, she got married on the island
    And her husband takes the train
    He’s big and he’s fat and he doesn’t even have a brain
    They’re gonna kill your sons
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    Until they run away
    Creedmore treated me very good
    But Paine Whitney was even better
    And when I flipped on PHC
    I was so sad I didn’t even get a letter
    All of the drugs, that we took, it really was lots of fun
    But when they shoot you up with thorizene on crystal smoke
    You choke like a son of a gun
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill your sons
    Don’t you know, they’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    They’re gonna kill, kill your sons
    Until they run run run run run run run run away

    • What strikes me, is that he was so famous, and no one even have noticed that he was almost destroyed by psychiatry. Hemingway Plath and many others were also tortured by psychiatry. But for people who do not give shit about that fact, they were just poor bad luck people who apparently deserved it. Because of their “mental illness”.

      I can’t stand the things that pro psychiatric people are thinking about human psyche. They are like psychopaths. And people who are aware of how dangerous psychiatry is, are so alone.
      So brave and so alone. Because the truth does not have many friends.

      • I agree that it isn’t a justification for ECT. Even though there are many people whose names I know and who have had some measure of impact on the world following ECT, when, in all likelihood, they would have remained in obscurity had they not had it.

        A similar problematic rose from the ashes of Nazism and the Holocaust. Names like Primo Levi and Viktor Frankl… had they not endured such horrific experiences we probably would never have heard from them.

        That isn’t a justification for the Holocaust.

        Simply an observation that horrible experiences can lift people out of the mire in a way that hugs and cups of tea don’t seem able to match.

        Simply a reminder that life is not black and white, always — and that “being nice” (for the best?) also brings with it mundane outcomes, obscurity, and boring people.

        Which is why I am warming to your perspective. All the Recovery and the Therapy and the Life Coaching is banal and fosters banality.

        Only a political fight with all its risks and dangers and passions can truly awaken what’s inspiring and honest and worthwhile in people.

        To be fair to myself, I’ve long endorsed this perspective. I think it gets covered in the toxic cultural dust of “putting on a front”, “fake it ’till you make it”, “be positive and change the world” kinda baloney that we are all under pressure to comply with.

        A good dusting down from time to time is necessary.

        • We should be setting up a defense network, so that people who don’t want to be cannot be funneled into the psychiatric system.

          They will always be trying to get anyone who seems not to regard the Self-Reliance Ethic, onto drugs.

          Many no that the most important thing is to refuse to talk to them, but others will not, they will talk. Then from that point forward they can just use whatever you tell them to pick at you.

          We must see how ours is an Anti-Colonial Struggle.

          • A friend of mine was kept in a psychiatric ward for nearly 3 years because he refused to speak to the psychiatrists. It was only at the point of being threatened with ECT that he relented. He lied to them and thanked them for helping him. And soon after they let him go.

            I don’t understand what you mean about middle class families and capitalism. I also am not sure what middle class values are? Aren’t they the same as working class values but with a fear of working up a sweat or getting the hands dirty or risking the nails?

            Also, I’m not sure about the need to eradicate psychotherapy. I mean, as you’ve written, people will go on paying people to listen to them drone on about themselves. And in many cases, you’d *have* to pay someone to pretend to be interested. Only objection I have is that the payments go in one direction only. Most therapy seems to be about making the therapist feel better about themselves. So they should be paying their clients.

            Life coaches are another matter. A life coach is a more pragmatic individual. They will tell you what you already know but don’t want to hear, and charge a premium for it.

            The only advantage I can see with the psychiatrist over the other two is that, by the by, they aren’t going to pretend to like you or pretend to be interested in you. That’s something I do admire about them. You can be sure they will make it absolutely clear they consider you to be contemptible and beneath them.

            I also concerned about what all the pretentious people are expected to do if we do away with these professions?

            The New Age is a big enough circus as it is…

            I do agree with you that there needs to be some kind of defence network to help people that don’t want to mix it up with these self-professed experts that can do a lot of deep damage.

            In fact a defence network is an excellent idea and I’ll approach you soon with some ideas of my own which may help you move these ideas forwards.

          • Rassulus, I agree that the main concern of therapists, or shall I say, “therapists,” is that if we abolish therapy, they won’t have jobs.

            I don’t buy that at all. Too bad! How many patients and expatients on here have stated that psychiatry stole their career? And that’s okay?

            Should we feel sorry for them? I don’t. Get another job, for godsakes. We writers call it a “day job.” Bag groceries. That’s what one shrink told me to do, if I recall correctly. Okay, so they ruined my career and that’s their answer? Go work for Dunkin Donuts or McDonald’s. They’re always looking for people.

            Funny, they counsel people who are jobless, feel oh so sorry for us…fake empathy…and then they panic over their own potential joblessness.

          • Worst comes to worse, I would always advise giving the warning that you will be exercising the power of Citizen’s Arrest.

            We should have wallet cards that people can carry which says they have a religious objection to Psychiatry and Psychotherapy. That may not really carry legal weight, but it might deter some.

            If they go to the web site or call the phone number, they will get much stronger warnings.

  8. Harriet Beecher Stowe thought her novel would lead to a souring of attitudes about slavery, and then a withering away. And maybe in the UK this is what happened. More copies were sold there than in the US.

    But she never anticipated how offensive her protagonist was to free black males. Immediately they acted to try to distinguish themselves from her protagonist, by demanding service in the Militia of Massachusetts.

    The 1850 Fugitive Slave Act set up an intolerable condition. The Stephen Douglas’s idea of Popular Sovereignty, letting new territories vote on whether or not they would have slavery, proved to be explosive, leading to a guerrilla conflict in Kansas Territory.

    Southerners insisted on being able to expand slavery into the West, especially the Mexican Concession. So the final breaking point, the last chance of being able to turn back, was at the 1860 Democratic National Convention. Southerners insisted that the party platform include “A Slave Code For The West”.

    When they didn’t get it, they followed the lead of the Senator from Mississippi, Jefferson Davis, and walked out. This split the party, meaning the new Republican Party, always anti-slavery and always Northern only, would win.

    In December, South Carolina, followed by Mississippi, announced their intent to secede. The inauguration back then was not until March. Bye that time, 7 states had announced intent to secede. They had taken over all post offices and court houses, leaving little else besides Fort Sumter.

    As Lincoln was inaugurated on March 4, 1861, he entered DC under cover of darkness and with snippers on the roof tops. He moved at once have military occupation of DC and Baltimore.

    Then Confederates attacked Fort Sumter, and Lincoln asked states to supply troops to put down the cessation, starting in Charleston. But this was when the four additional states announced their secession, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, making for a total of 11.

  9. Jule Green wrote: “Rassulus, I agree that the main concern of therapists, or shall I say, “therapists,” is that if we abolish therapy, they won’t have jobs.

    I don’t buy that at all. Too bad! How many patients and expatients on here have stated that psychiatry stole their career? And that’s okay?

    Should we feel sorry for them? I don’t. Get another job, for godsakes. We writers call it a “day job.” Bag groceries. That’s what one shrink told me to do, if I recall correctly. Okay, so they ruined my career and that’s their answer? Go work for Dunkin Donuts or McDonald’s. They’re always looking for people.

    Funny, they counsel people who are jobless, feel oh so sorry for us…fake empathy…and then they panic over their own potential joblessness.”

    I dunno, I am quite a sentimentalist at heart. When I read about the last hangman in England, I felt a tinge of sadness for a lost profession, a lost art, despite that I am against the death penalty and that hanging, in particular, seems designed to appeal to some peoples’ need to attain multiple sadistic emotional orgasms in answer to their grief and anger and vengefulness (the fact that many innocent people swung is a secondary concern).

    I’m not sure who to point the finger at with regards my laughably ruined life. Multiple fingers have to point back at myself because some of the choices I made, from the age of 5 years old and onwards, were tragi-comically self-defeating and although numerous therapists and wannabe therapists have chastised me for being less than charitable about the “inner child” I don’t think I have an inner child, the child is long gone, adults that claim to have an inner child come across to me as a little bit creepy. An inner tendency to at times be child-*ish*… well that’s something else entirely.

    But I digress. I think it’s sad for anyone to lose their jobs, especially if they have made a lot of sacrifices for it. Psychiatrists invest many years to attain that role. As do psychotherapists and really all serious professionals will undergo a lifetime of supplementary learning throughout their careers.

    I think a lot of them would do better to work with abused animals. There may come a day in our lifetimes when the cattle and meat industries find their consciences and are gradually phased out so these poor creatures destined for ritualistic slaughter are emancipated and reintroduced to the wilds, or somewhere between the death-camps and the wilds, there will be lots of openings for compassionate and empathic individuals to help them.

    And certainly a lot of psychotherapists would find their skills far more appropriate in helping cows and pigs and sheepies and wotnot rather than be trusted with other human beings.

    Psychiatrists might also be better suited to working with emancipated meat too. They certainly show a real flair for working with meat. Of course the stringent guidelines against abusive practices might put many of them off, but I am sure many could adapt, and adapt very successfully.