Overheated, then Overtreated: My 10-Day Involuntary Hold

Kristen Freed
42
2263

While I have traveled solo in Italy, Austria, Greece, Thailand, and Cambodia, I have never before traveled solo during a pandemic. It presents its own unique set of challenges, especially with regard to heatstroke/heat exhaustion. It’s not as if, for example, one might simply walk into a McDonald’s or a public library and avail themselves of the free WIFI and air conditioning, let alone a chair. This fact was never more true than in late June/early July 2020, when I left typically cool and cloudy Cape Cod to visit nearby Rhode Island on a personal/professional quest to see how area resorts and tourist areas were responding to the challenges of reopening. A professional waiter for the past 14 years, and occasionally lead trainer, I myself was still on furlough.

Unfortunately, as I hinted earlier, the weather on ‘the mainland’ was surprisingly sunny and hot, and I was ill-prepared for the sun’s intensity. I was doing a lot of walking, which is my usual custom in such circumstances, much of it lost in thought as I attempted to work through a complicated screenplay idea that had presented itself to me a week or so earlier, and I figured, why the heck not? (Had I known then that I could be “sectioned,” i.e., committed compulsorily to a psychiatric hospital on a whim, and as a direct result of this one decision, my conscious decision to do so would have undoubtedly been much different.) Caught off guard not only by the heat and the sun’s intensity, but also by the dramatic differences in the way in which not only neighboring states but also neighboring towns were responding to the challenges of the pandemic, and admittedly not hydrating as I should have, I fell victim to heatstroke/heat exhaustion.

Absolutely desperate for shade and a place to sit down, even if only for a moment, I walked into an unknown person’s yard. Unable to find either, and temporarily confused by the sun and heat, I entered the home instead. I sat down for a few minutes, and then wandered around, soon realizing my mistake. I left, only to encounter the home’s owner as I did so, and I can honestly say that I have never felt more embarrassed in my entire life. In an effort to forget and quickly move on from the experience, I resumed walking with the intent of figuring out where I was in relation to my car, with the goal of returning to it and subsequently my hotel, when I was suddenly surrounded by three police cars with sirens blaring.

A health and safety check ensued, which, as far as I know, I passed. Their assessment, from what I was later led to understand, was the same as mine: heatstroke/heat exhaustion. I was then taken to the local ER, where I assumed that I would be given fluids and a long lecture on the importance of drinking water, applying sunscreen while traveling, not stepping in poison ivy, etc…. I’ve always been a bit of a peripatetic walker, especially while traveling. Providence, Rhode Island being an ideal city in which to do so, on account of the architecture, and seeking, while on vacation, to make as much hay as possible while the sun shines, or in this case doesn’t, I do sometimes stay out all night. Especially in areas such as Downtown Providence or resorts such as Walt Disney World, which I believe to be relatively safe, perhaps never more so than during a global pandemic shutdown.

This was not to be the case, however. The ER doctor asked if I would agree to a CAT scan, despite my not having so much as a headache, and I, having long been interested in all things brain, especially split-brain research, and very eager to see a picture of my own, enthusiastically agreed. The doctor returned, telling me that they had found a bleed in my cerebellum, and asked if I would agree to be transported to a nearby hospital for treatment, and I of course said yes. Surprised, however, by the utter lack of symptoms such as headache, nausea, or difficulty thinking or communicating.

I awoke eight or so hours later, surprised to find myself not dead, but instead, trapped inside what I consider to be my worst nightmare: a hospital bed from which I could not get up without setting off an alarm. I’d been put to sleep somehow, during which time (I later learned) I’d been given additional scans. Deprived of food and water (and perhaps most importantly, visitors), but still exhibiting zero symptoms, I began to grow increasingly frightened, especially after having looked up the hospital on my phone (my belongings were nearby) and noting the caliber of reviews posted online. This is not good, I remember thinking to myself, somewhat presciently.

Eleven days passed. Ten of which were spent on a locked ward (the door is not actually, physically locked, but neither can you leave), eight in the Neuro Stroke Unit, and two in a group psych ward. My “bizarre” behavior of wandering around unaccompanied, and having entered the aforementioned home, was here being viewed as indicative of mania, according to the ward psychiatrists.

I am 50, a homeowner, with a $325,000 house, a 10-year record of $1,700-a-month mortgage payments, and two cars (a Honda FIT and a Miata), all of which I’ve been successfully paying for on a single woman’s salary. My highest-risk behavior? Perhaps more often than I ought, I do drink diet root beer. More so, lately. I follow an anti-inflammatory diet, take pharmaceutical-grade fish oil, and every two years, I have my blood tested to ensure that my AA/EPA fatty-acid ratio is within a very narrow range (1.5 and 3). I exercise regularly, I don’t smoke, I rarely drink, and I am so opposed to the use of substances that I personally choose not ingest anything with caffeine, save for the occasional dark chocolate almond or nonpareil. My one “addiction” (if it can even be called that) is to potato chips.

“If I am manic, let alone bipolar,” I later said to a friend upon my eventual release, “then I am the highest-functioning individual with mania/bipolar disorder in all of recorded history.” Also, I have a master’s degree in psychology, and I literally own a copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, as its use was taught in one of the courses I took in graduate school.

Nevertheless, throughout the entire nightmarish ordeal, the doctors on the ward subjected me to every neurological exam (“Touch my finger, then touch my nose.” “Who are you?”) that they could possibly think of. So much so, that there came a time where I could practically take myself through the entire exam unaided, and I swore to myself that next time I traveled, I would remember to pack my name tag. Their inability to find any neurological evidence via these exams, and my lack of any headache, nausea, vomiting, etc., presenting as happy, smiley, and ranking my pain as “0” on the 1-10 scale, quickly approached a level of total and utter ridiculousness.

Throughout, they pressured me to take Zyprexa (an antipsychotic so powerful that it is also used as a first-line treatment for schizophrenia), and Lisinopril, a medication used to treat high blood pressure), which I thought odd as my blood pressure is consistently low. Also an MRI and a lumbar puncture. All four of which I refused, asking to be allowed to return home in order for the issue to be addressed by my primary care physician. My repeated requests were denied. Every morning I would shower and dress in the clothes I wore when I was brought into the hospital, a blue and white dress with a blue pashmina, hoping that this might be the day I successfully negotiated for my release.

Upon discharge on the eleventh day, I returned home to a lawn that hadn’t been mowed (they had taken my phone away from me), and a cat that fortunately was not dead, but only because I have a guest staying with me in my house for the summer. Within days, paperwork and bills began arriving from the hospital, my share totaling almost $4,000. (So much for my trip to the Vesuvius region of Italy, which I had already begun planning! Goodbye ancient cities of Pompeii, Naples, Oplontis, Stabiae, and Herculaneum!)

The diagnosis for which I lost 11 days of my life? A “stable, non-bleeding arteriovenous brain malformation.” So stable, in fact, that upon my return to his office a week-and-a-half later, my doctor advised me that no change was needed to my usual activity level, which often includes two to three 50-mile bike rides a week and at least one, sometimes two, three-to-six-hour kayak trips.

My other diagnosis: Bipolar Disorder: Current episode manic, mild with no psychotic symptoms. Classified in the report as “apparent,” due to the lack of observable symptoms, which were explained in the report as being due to my taking magnesium as a migraine preventative. (Then why the heck prescribe an antipsychotic as powerful as Zyprexa?) But what they didn’t know, of course, never having bothered to ask me such questions, is that I have only been taking magnesium for two of the past 50 years, so the absence of symptoms of bipolar disorder (mania, a major depressive episode) prior to then remains a mystery. (A textbook example of mania: the patient quits their job, and returns from the nearby pet store with a car full of aquariums, having devised a new way for fish to breathe, convinced he will now become a millionaire. And, in order to qualify as mania, an episode cannot be attributable to the physiological effects of a substance or another medical condition.)

What possible explanation is there for this bizarre and completely unexpected turn of events? Especially in a country such as this one, which prides itself on being a place where these sorts of things never happen? The answer is perhaps as simple as money. The parent company of this particular hospital reported a $35-million-dollar loss in 2019. Had the hospital simply treated me for heatstroke/heat exhaustion, they would have made next to nothing. But 11 days in the hospital (10 on a “locked” ward), a CAT scan, an EEG, an EKG, an MRI, a lumbar puncture, a COVID-19 test upon admittance, and prior to discharge, Zyprexa and Lisinopril; well, I’ll let you do the math (it’s about $20,000). Something to consider when planning your next solo vacation during a pandemic, especially if you are thinking of visiting Rhode Island. Caveat viator.

 

 

 

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Mad in America hosts blogs by a diverse group of writers. These posts are designed to serve as a public forum for a discussion—broadly speaking—of psychiatry and its treatments. The opinions expressed are the writers’ own.

42 COMMENTS

  1. Hi Kristen,

    I had a fellow golf club member perish in the heat about a week ago (he and his wife, both in their 70s). People have been quite concerned about the way they left. My attitude is that I’d prefer this way rather than being force drugged with chemical handcuffs, being tied to my bed and left in my own fecal matter for hours on end by staff that will beat me senseless for complaining. We call that ‘care’ where I live unfortunately.

    Caveat viator.

    Too true in my State, where they have found ways around the laws protecting the community and are enabling arbitrary detentions and acts of torture to be called ‘mental health care’. Great if your a doctor or an organised criminal (or both) because there’s a lot of money to be made.

    Your insurance cover ECTs? Because when were talking about a lot of money to be made, the drug dealing is not where the action is these days. Despite the dismantling of the legislation allowing us to know who it is that is prescribing ADHD drugs to 1074 “patients”. You should see how quickly people will empty their wallets when you come at them with an electric cable with the wires stripped at the ends. Anything, just get them to stop are the words that come to mind. See Garth Daniels articles here on MiA.

    Glad someone with the ability to write has documented their experience in this regard. Many are way too traumatized (and will be retraumatized for complaining) to be able to document their experiences.

    Good luck getting to Italy. Naples is particularly beautiful.

  2. “’If I am manic, let alone bipolar,’ I later said to a friend upon my eventual release, ‘then I am the highest-functioning individual with mania/bipolar disorder in all of recorded history.’”

    Well, according to my family’s history, and my medical records, all those of us who have a family history of multiple Phi Beta Kappa members and multiple Olympic athletes, are “bipolar.” The intelligent, physically fit, healthy, but well insured, Americans are the ones the too greedy medical community believe have “bipolar.” You’re in good company.

    And a child abuse covering up psychologist, who recently had delusions of grandeur that I’d sign an “art manager”/thievery contract, because he wanted to steal all my work and money, due to his belief a “Chicago Chagall’s” work might be worth something some day.

    That psychologist told me that the social workers should be trying to drug up the best and brightest American children, because they got 100% on their state standardized tests, to “maintain the status quo” and “to get all the money in the hands of a small number of banking families.”

    Since he apparently didn’t understand, those of us who come from the non-bailout needing or taking American banking families, know all about the crimes of the globalist banksters, and don’t stand in support of their crimes.

    Absolutely, “bipolar” is a BS “diagnosis.” It’s an “illness” whose symptoms are created with the antidepressants and ADHD drugs, as Robert Whitaker credibly pointed out in “Anatomy.”

    And the supposed treatments for “bipolar,” the “schizophrenia” drugs, the antipsychotics, do indeed create both the negative and positive symptoms of “schizophrenia.” The negative symptoms are created via neuroleptic induced deficit syndrome. And the positive symptoms of “schizophrenia,” like “psychosis” and hallucinations, are created via antidepressant and/or antipsychotic induced anticholinergic toxidrome.

  3. We live in the world of conformists (consider this word an euphemism for some stronger term), who haven’t developed an ability of seeing beyond appearances because they cultivated appearances all their lives. Including the so-called doctors, most of them (not only psychiatrists but all branches).

    You have to behave such way to be seen as “normal” by their sick perception, if you want to avoid troubles.

  4. I got tagged with Bipolar mania, too, when I ended up in a psych ward on what ended up being a huge misunderstanding. The psychiatrist came into my room at about 8 AM to find me fully dressed (sans shoes because they had laces), sitting on the bed, and completely agreeable. I’d go as far as to say that I was even chipper, like an annoying early morning coworker who’s awake and excited to meet the day.

    I answered his questions fully and politely and mentioned that I was trying to get back to the medical hospital because I had a skin infection on both my legs and needed antibiotics.

    For this, he labeled me as having mania and set me on a new regimen of a high dose of Topamax (I think it was 100-200mg) and a nicotine patch. Regardless of the fact that I have never smoked a cigarette a day in my life. Thankfully, I was a “voluntary” patient and was able to decline the drugs.

    Did I mention that I’m on a lot of different medications and the psych ward wasn’t aware that I was on anything? They had an absolutely blank medical record from me, even though the ER at the hospital I went to had all of my information.

    Sure, I can miss a dose of Paxil, Anafranil, and Xanax here and there, but it’s probably best to give me my Keppra so that I don’t have a seizure.

    It was also the end of June in Florida and the facility had a broken air conditioner? On top of everything else, it was like 88-90*F in a locked ward.

  5. Half a world away and that still mirrors what I experienced closely

    Secret and bullshit diagnosis? Check.
    Being pushed towards medication for no reason? Check.
    The feeling it was about money? Check. (I got asked by one of the docs if I thought it was about money without me ever thinking or saying anything like that prior. It was her thought. I thought of them as merely incompetent.)
    .
    .
    .
    Miata? Check. xD

  6. Kristen, you are brave and fortunate indeed, that you got out without meds. And a bipolar diagnosis—absolutely ridiculous. At any point did the police or docs listen to you when asked why you entered someone’s house? All of that could have been solved so easily. Sadly, I think you’re correct about the money angle.

  7. Anybody got the evidence – any papers on magnesium causing “bipolar”. If you do not mind me asking how much Mg were you taking to help with your migraine? Auntie Psychiatry and I have done significant research on migraine, the drugs, the real triggers and solutions. Mg is a good way to go for migraine. What has been noticed is that AD’s are starting to be advocated by psychiatrists for pain including migraine.

    I’m afraid to say, once psych has got hold of you it will not let go now you have a record and been diagnosed – you have entered the domain of our realm. Psychiatry will lurk in wait to financially screw you over again. Perhaps you would like to avail yourself with the important history of psychiatry:

    http://breggin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/psychiatrysrole.pbreggin.1993.pdf

  8. It’s so easy to get a bipolar diagnosis these days. Today’s science news discusses how this phenomenon is playing out in Iran: https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/09/understand-soaring-rates-bipolar-iran/.

    I got a bipolar 2 diagnosis for a time based on “symptoms” for which there were other explanations. But I lacked more of the supposed symptoms of BPD than I had. No matter; if your emotions or behavior deviate in anyway from some concept of normal, you just might be bipolar and to be safe here is a script for heavy-duty, life- and health-changing drugs.

    • I’m assuming that all bipolar have “other explanations”.
      It is the easiest thing in the world to get a “diagnosis”. And of course all symptoms have explanations, after
      all, how is Bipolar an “explanation” of your symptoms? So Bipolar is the origin of the symptoms? And the symptom? How was the bipolar discovered? Is it then a case of, we go around saying “I have bipolar”? Or worse yet, “I was mis-diagnosed”?
      Thing is, we all know the symptoms are for sure the diagnosis, we can diagnose ourselves and just go to a shrink for the official one. You know, in writing after the tests. the complaints.

      I am also one that wishes I was “misdiagnosed”. That there were “other explanations”… But no, I don’t have my shit together the way that some do. I do get quite neurotic in some people’s eyes. So in that case I must have “something”.
      But I’m absolutely not prescribing to bias diagnosis. Made up things, by an entity that no one knows what the reasons of their neural activity is useful for. Seriously I don’t. When I look at human survival, it is amazing what passes. We are indeed a very disordered lot, so I really don’t know why we all are bothered by what we are called.
      We are bothered and frustated simply because of the audacity for politicians to recognize psychiatry as a service. Yes they serve because in confusion, distress and chaos, high anxiety basically, there is no one else, so they enlisted an abusive controlling force. I mean if I am scared, which is really the basis of ALL distress, then the best thing is to hit me or strap me down, take away my liberties. Is this not what bad childhoods are like? Do parents get their kids taken away?
      Basically psychiatry deals with a lot of arrested development in different areas and beats you for it.
      And the biggest problem is, their arrested development stopped at developing compassion and insight into the conundrum which is human experiences and process.

      • “Overtreated” suggests that there is a proper amount of “treatment.” It seems a devious term to be used in this context, as of course, having no objective way to “diagnose” “bipolar” or any of the other so-called “disorders,” it is impossible to even establish what is being “treated,” let alone what the “proper amount of treatment” would look like.

        Maybe the title should be, “Overheated, then overwhelmed with attempts to define and control my life.”

  9. Let me clarify a few things. As far as I’m concerned any “mental illness” diagnosis is a misdiagnosis– in that they are constructs without real-world physical correlates. So I’m comfortable with the word “misdiagnosed” in relation to myself. Also, even if the bipolar label were credible as a diagnosis, I just didn’t tick off the boxes…like so many people, including Kristen.

    As far as the headline, Kristen had headstroke or heat exhaustion. Proper treatment would have been simple and she’d have likely left the ER within a few hours. Instead, she was put through a battery of tests, given psych eval and diagnosis, and prescribed strong and inappropriate drugs. That’s the textbook definition of “overtreated.” More medical interventions than called for.

    • Miranda, I don’t see them as “medical” interventions. And I do tick of every box for the 565 disorders and diagnosis. So I probably have 565 misdiagnosis or real diagnosis. I’m going to wear my ticks with pride. And just in case there is a credible label, I need to decide which one I’d like to purchase, because it is costly to buy and I hate to waste my money on useless things.
      And one could have heatstroke plus have been “ticking” off all the boxes.

  10. Kristen, I wouldn’t be so quick to go on that their motivations were money. Because this kind of story happens and can happen at just about any psychiatric institution, regardless of whether they are making a profit or not. It’s maybe best not to try to make anything out of what they were doing, other than point out how unprofessional it was. They otherwise might try to make out you’re paranoid. I’m not saying money wasn’t involved, because the whole phenomenon is driven by guilds, corporate media and wallstreet investments; so even if that one hospital wasn’t trying to make more money, it’s still further up the ladder; and they would list supposed medical concerns just like that, either way, and could and/or might try to make you out to be paranoid or making up conspiracy theories.

    I don’t think that psychiatrists often can differentiate between how they have been indoctrinated to interpret what they call symptoms, and what’s really going on. Your story points that out quite sufficiently, that they couldn’t tell the difference between normal symptoms of heat stroke, and mania from bipolar, then adding on, it becomes hard to remember all of it…

    What would linisopril have to do with a normal heat stroke? And then they bring up a false diagnosis of “stable, non-bleeding arteriovenous brain malformation.” which you now know was “a developmental venous anomaly, a harmless, symptomless, birth defect that occurs in 1 out of 50 people. So symptomless and harmless that it is rarely detected except at autopsy. A brain AVM, the original diagnosis, being much more serious although considered stable. DVA’s by comparison, don’t hemorrhage/bleed” The Linisopril would have been for the false diagnosis? And the bipolar diagnosis just shows what it shows, it reads like some kind of magic fundamentalists believe in, and you’re not even allowed to attribute what happened to a heat stroke anymore.

    I really wonder whether the doctor asking you whether you wanted a catscan already had other ideas in his head, which is then what spelled itself out over the next 11 days, anyhow. that’s how they got you in the system anyhow. I’m assuming that if you had said you didn’t want a catscan you could have walked free and wouldn’t have been available for them to start making up more stuff. Having said you wanted a catscan did that make you available for them to start trying to pin bipolar on you, or would they have tried that anyhow? And if they had that in their minds, would not wanting a catscan have prevented making you available? Such people really simply aren’t in their right minds anymore, when they think a “mental disorder” is going on. And they then think a person doesn’t know themselves what’s going on with them. And society increasingly has the same phobias, which I think is what your lawyer was trying to point out. You should simply be able to point out how what they did was false at many levels now, already. They can’t even see that it’s a simple sun stroke, and were wrong about the brain abnormality.

    You can imagine how fundamentalist some people are. And the only way they can believe in “bipolar” in many ways is by being alarmist, because the science involving it doesn’t really add up beyond their statements that they don’t really know how the brain works although they can’t really prove it’s a chemical imbalance (while their “medications” have been proven to cause chemical imbalance), and that they believe that they are making headway with “compelling” evidence, while the treatment that’s been put in place has caused a whole epidemic of the problem rather than a lessening, and thus you have more alarm rather than reason and logic.

    In fact, to deal with all of it and not completely lose it, you have to be quite a bit more informed that the “normal” person, and to not lose it you have to have more compassion with people who simply don’t know any better or better able to detach from an extremely disturbing situation than most people would be capable of.

    And the utter convolution of saying that you never had bipolar symptoms before, because you take magnesia, this to disregard it was a sun stroke, and then offer zyprexa…

    And you can easily read how much bipolar is over diagnosed, and the whole push with “medications” such as zyprexa which have collectively caused billions of dollars in fines because of withholding information about known side effects, or how such “medications” cause brain damage, this with a false diagnosis of a brain malformation….

    I don’t even go to see a primary care physician anymore. I’ve heard to many stories, and I have a diagnosis. I had gone to the ER for a simple allergic reaction to oregano oil, and they were ready to give me a prednisone pill, or something like that, which I said no to. I was then listed as “refusing” that, the doctor using such terminology. The doctor who was quite nice and social, did state that quite aggressively all of a sudden in contrast to his otherwise friendly demeanor. I did fill out a prescription for that, which I never took, especially after reading that it makes one in twenty psychotic. But they were going to just give me such a pill at the ER. The allergic reaction had no difficulty dissipating within a short period.

    Thank you for sharing your story.

    If I was going to be sarcastic, I’d try to point out that even zyprexa with all of its magic qualities, hasn’t been shown to prevent heat stroke.

    This stuff is just unbelievable.

    And it’s tragic.

    A person who was forced on zyprexa, in an asylum setting, they wouldn’t even be able to tell such a psychiatrist the truth they might find out about the efficacy of such medications, they probably couldn’t list their side effects and get decent or conscientious acknowledgement, nor for withdrawal symptoms….

    Those people can be quite brainwashed, and fundamentalist, and don’t have realistic flexibility in their thinking, when they encounter such…

    The best you can do is often just get out of the situation, and show there’s a different way. You just can’t engage with them directly….

    • “The best you can do is often just get out of the situation, and show there’s a different way. You just can’t engage with them directly….”

      I think you would find the same true of Islamic State. There’s just no reasoning with extremists.

      • I really find this too easy, given how we are supposed to see things, to mention the Islamic State. As if they have anything to do with Islam to begin with, and further more, if you are referring to ISIS, that was a Caliphate that was allowed or encouraged to grow by the US and allied powers, thinking they would help take down Syria, which again is another strategical interest gone sour, like Osama bin Laden was, who first was hired by the US to mess up Aghanistan before that went the other direction. And this is endless, not to speak of people calling themselves Christian that destroyed and are still destroying beautiful peace loving and nature loving indigenous cultures all over the planet. If one is going to make remarks concerning extremism or fundamentalism, one really only has to look in one’s backyard: Rhode Island, for example.

        • Point being that the people who consider this sort of treatment of someone who needs to be taken to the church of psychiatry for forced treatment ‘reasonable’, consider ISIL brutal for beating people for not attending Friday prayers.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9UQKBUrsg

          Is it any wonder our Treasurer fled the State when police attended his home and were possibly going to have him ‘treated’ for his bi polar disorder? Does he know something that is being kept from the rest of us? Because surely we have a doctor here capable of treating such an ‘illness’?

          He did fortunately manage to hang on to his human rights, though only by a matter of minutes. Always good to hear of a Great Escape. Our very own Cool Hand Luke (“I got ma head right baws”) lol

          What was interesting about the situation was the fact that politicians start using this weapon against each other in breach of the unwritten agreement, it starts to get messy. Really messy. There’s a story there that will never be told.

        • boans, but that’s like trying to… I don’t know what to say…

          They think they are trying to help you, and you’re being non compliant, and/or resisting, or whatever it adds up to for them to decide they can assault you, even lie (who was it that is recorded as advising parents to knock chairs over to make it look like their child is violent, when trying to get your child committed!? And that man has been on Charlie Rose who had a whole series acting like they “know” that mental illness is because of a chemical imbalance, and that medications are necessary, rather than they are with true articulate science the one cause of chemical imbalance that can consistently be found in psychiatric treatment, something the alleged diseases do not show to be in true science)…

          When you compare them to ISIS, they only are going to decide further you’re non compliant etc..

          They don’t see it as assault, and they don’t see all the damage they do as damage; they can’t see that when other methods help people but don’t validate theirs that they might have to question what they are doing; they don’t see that when there’s absolutely simple explanations for what’s going on which antidote their alarmist habits, that they are being alarmist;

          And the craziest thing is that you can’t reason with them, which is what they decide about you, because you actually are reasonable; you actually have to believe insane things or act like you do, in order to get by them.

          • “When you compare them to ISIS, they only are going to decide further you’re non compliant etc..”

            Same with ISIS, if you compare them to the kuffar, it’s proof of your jahiliyah. And you therefore require the ‘treatment’ lol

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