Well, first of all, because it already is. This is not a theoretical proposition, but a “self-evident truth,” as the original inventors of the concept of civil rights (the author of the U.S. Constitution) put it. They talked about a right to life, not an obligation or duty to live, and also specified that the mentioning of this particular right (as well as any others) “cannot be construed to deny or disparage” any other rights.
Very few people understand the significance of this today, thanks for the most part to the influence of Christianity on our culture. As even a cursory analysis of history reveals, taking one’s own life wasn’t regarded as an act of violence or hideous moral transgression before this religious influence took hold. It’s pretty much the same deal as with homosexuality — the Greeks and Romans, on the whole, were radically more accepting of it than some of our own contemporaries. Euthanasia itself is a Greek word, and its original meaning is “good death,” which doesn’t necessarily imply outside assistance — nor does it imply suicide, by the way; it simply means the kind of death that the individual deems to be good. Different schools of thought of course differed on what such goodness is, but the important thing to remember is that there was no wholesale condemnation of voluntary death in the Classical world.
The Enlightenment is often regarded as a return to pre-Christian ideas about social life — a continuation of the natural evolution of thought that was forcibly halted during the medieval period. In light of this, the legal prohibition and social condemnation of voluntary death looks more like a religious phenomenon than a moral principle with secular justification behind it, a situation akin to that of a woman’s right to make her own reproductive decisions — and indeed, both issues deal with bodily autonomy. This is yet another reason why we already have a right to voluntary death: denying such a right amounts to the establishment of a religion by the government. So the real question is not why suicide should be recognized as a right, but how come that already isn’t?
Moreover, I have strong reasons to believe that if people were allowed to choose their own time and manner of death, without having to fear detainment, forced medical treatment, and permanent disability in the case of failure, and to express their views on the matter without being censored or (again) having to fear dire consequences, 1) fewer suicides would occur in the first place, and 2) those that do occur would be successful, which would significantly decrease human suffering.
Even if someone isn’t really determined to die by their own hand, knowing that it’s not allowed can be a very distressing thought to a lot of people. Think about it — isn’t it comforting to think that whatever situation you’re in, you have a way to get out of it? No one knows in advance what kind of medical, financial, family-related or other emergency may strike them, and just having a Plan B in any of these cases might help you to think more clearly and handle the circumstances more efficiently, even if you decide not to take that option.
In my personal experience, I’ve learned that life will come to an end anyway, whether we want it to or not, and it is the quality of that life that matters the most, not its mere length. Having seen a great deal of effort wasted on keeping people alive who either didn’t want to be or were in no condition to get anything out of it (case in point, my dad’s dad, a WWII vet, felt that he was mentally dead long before he was actually dead, due to Alzheimer’s), it quickly became obvious to me that that is exactly the thing I do not want. I don’t know why it’s such a default, or why people don’t seem to be (or want to be) aware of the fact that death is real and it happens to all of us. If you cling to life too hard, at a certain point all you do is cause more pain, both to the person in question and their loved ones/caretakers.
Not all voluntary deaths are a response to adverse circumstances, however. There is a pervasive assumption in our society that the decision to die is somehow a form of “giving up,” or that it can only be brought about by some sort of suffering. How do we know that, though? Humans are not mind-readers. Psychological models, charts and schematics can offer some insight, but the fact is that those do not apply to every single individual.
I can only speak for myself here, but I have noticed something very alarming about this. People have asked me why I am an advocate for voluntary death and why have I chosen this path for my own ending; but they scarcely listen to my answers! Even despite my lengthy explanations about how I want to make the event a celebration of individuality, a moment to share with my loved ones without uncertainty and the dread of putting them at risk of incarceration for simply being there; about the fact that I want to be an organ donor and that is only possible with a healthy, young body (the legal age limit is 50 years), so it is also an act of charity, rather than “selfishness” as it is often framed; about the fact that I’m not in any emotional distress (most of the time, though I do get angry about the injustices of the world) — they still default back to the assumption that I must be “depressed” (whatever that even means; I could write a whole new article about the absurdity of criminalizing sadness, or emotions in general). I am constantly told I should “seek help” (help with what, exactly?), or that I don’t value life enough because I’m an atheist (which is the most absurd idea I have ever heard — if anything, we value life more than religious people because we’re aware of the fact that we have only one!), or that I need a “real man” to force me into a heterosexual relationship to “clear my head” (I have never been attracted to men in a sexual manner, so this is downright insulting)…
In other words, there is always some excuse not to listen to what I’m actually saying. My decision is based on rational considerations, not emotional whim. And I don’t believe that I’m the only one who has made a decision to die voluntarily due to these considerations, either. As Wendy O. Williams put it: “I don’t believe that people should take their own lives without deep and thoughtful reflection over a considerable period of time. I do believe strongly, however, that the right to do so is one of the most fundamental rights that anyone in a free society should have.”
I still think that pressuring people to hate or kill themselves is wrong — but isn’t that what the psychiatric establishment is doing to begin with? They take the socially and/or cognitively different, and call them alienating names, while trying to make them more like the majority, without even considering whether they want to change or not. It is taken as a default that if you are not like “most people,” that is necessarily wrong, and your fault. The fact that you might have different needs and sensitivities is pathologized. While the reality is more like this: “Everyone needs accommodation, even able-bodied neurotypicals, the difference is that the world was built for them. They don’t notice the accommodations for them because they are so common place (stairs are the right height, roads exist for travel that wouldn’t be possible by foot, etc.).”1 Indeed, for people considered neurotypical, society itself is a giant accommodation, in the absence of which they would promptly perish. But somehow, if you are a neurological (or sexual, or racial, or any other) minority, suddenly you aren’t entitled to acceptance and accommodation, only ostracism and coercion. It’s not at all surprising that such institutionalized bullying drives people to seek death — often a better alternative than “treatment;” just ask Alan Turing. If you want to prevent people from dying, fight against this mistreatment and cruelty, not their rights!
Another objection I commonly hear is that if voluntary death is normalized and becomes part of the social discourse, impressionable minors will think it’s “cool” and make rash decisions that they don’t fully understand. The very same objection was raised against sex education decades ago. Statistics show, however, that the STD and teen pregnancy rates are lower in areas where proper sex education is given to students. Knowing about something doesn’t mean a teen will automatically try it. In fact, the more factual information is available for teens, the less likely it is that they will learn the consequences the hard way. Scaremongering simply does not work.
Regardless of what one’s moral stance is on the value of life, or the meaning of death, it is time to recognize that there are people whose views differ from ours, and that we do not have the right to force them to live (and die) the way we want to. This is why I prefer the phrase “voluntary death” rather than suicide — it hopefully makes the most crucial point clear: that it should be an individual’s own decision. We all die; it’s the journey that matters, not the destination. But each journey is different, and it should be up to each of us how long it is, and how we get to the end of it.
The reason that Christianity came out with a prohibition against a person taking their own life was due to the popularity that developed around martyrdom in the early years of the Church. Martyrdom was seen to be a good thing because it expressed the strength of your belief in this new religion. But then people began taking their own lives in an attempt to be proclaimed martyrs and the Church stepped in. They were afraid that if this idea continued that the numbers of Christians would dwindle and they’d never become the world power that the Church wanted to be. So the Church outlawed taking your own life. I that the Church had no business making such a proclamation, especially since it’s carried down to what we’re dealing with today.
I believe that I have the absolute right to take my own life if I see fit to do so, when and how I want to accomplish this. I don’t preach this to anyone else but it’s a firm personal belief that I hold.
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Wow, Stephen, I never knew that their prohibition of suicide was to prevent people trying to prove their devotion by martyrdom! You learn something new every day. Thanks for sharing that!
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I’m just full of mostly useless information. In another life I taught Religion and Church History was one of the subjects that I taught to high school students. So much of what people take for dogma in the Church developed not so much from a theological standpoint or as dogma but as practical things that Church leaders decided, often not for the greatest and best of reasons. A lot of political things were done and now are lodged in theology.
For instance, celibacy is not a theological dogmatic development but is totally historical in nature. There is no reason at all that the Roman Church couldn’t change the rule on celibacy tomorrow since it is historical. Celibacy became a requirement for ordination to the priesthood because when they had married clergy the priests were leaving Church property to their children. Well, you can imagine how much the Church liked that little development, a loss of money to their coffers. So…out came the proclamation that all priests had to be celibate and it became a requirement to ordination. Celibacy is not a proclamation from God, and all his angels, and his saints. It was a proclamation from Church rulers, plain and simple.
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Stephen
You mentioned Celibacy
Are you aware of the Growing
Incel
Involuntary Celibacy Crisis in America and Worldwide
The intense misery of Incels
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Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Fanatics, Dictators and Extremists
Are Monsters
Monsters for keeping Suffering Mentally ill , Terminally ill, Incels, Homeless, Paraplegics, Quadriplegics and other Suffering people alive Against Their Will, Against Their Will, at all costs to Suffer Even More
Pro-Life BS Propaganda insults the Intelligence of Suffering People
Pro-Life BS “Suicide Prevention”
Propaganda insults the Intelligence of Suffering people, it gaslights Suffering people with Propaganda, Lies and False Hope
We Need to Peacefully Speak Out Against the Hideous Injustice of
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism
Life is Not a “Gift” it is a
Cruel, Unjust, Imposition
For Most people in America and Worldwide Life is Not
“Beautiful”
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” are such smug arrogant judgmental hypocritical self-righteous Losers
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The founding Christians were poor people who sacrificed so that we could have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Voluntary death is just as stupid as giving someone medications for unhappiness and thoughts of death.
Everyone naturally wants to live, if you don’t want to accept the religion then accept biology. If you want to encourage voluntary death you are discouraging voluntary life. Look for ways to relieve pain, suffering, and sadness, your work would be more productive that way.
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This is your opinion, plain and simple. Everyone has an opinion but that doesn’t necessarily mean that every opinion is valid and useful. I have no right to try and make others believe in my opinions of things.
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Many people are asking about
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Clowns , Dictators and
“Professionals”
Why do they like life so much ?
What’s so great about life ? what’s so Terrible about Suicide ?
What’s so bad about Allowing Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill and other Suffering people decide for themselves the time and manner of their Deaths
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In Fact many many people are saying that America and all Nations in the World need literal
Voluntary “Suicide booths” like what was shown in
“Futurama” the American animated science fiction sitcom created by Matt Groening
The Total Lack of Bodily Autonomy in America is so
Disturbing and Disgusting
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living is Exploitation of Suffering people
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I, too, have come to believe that suicide is a fundamental human right. I do not say doctor-assisted suicide; I mean suicide for any reason whatsoever, without owing any judge among men an explanation. The focus of public discussion on physician-assisted suicide is yet another example, as if we needed any more, of a power-grab from the medical-industrial complex. (As any psychiatric survivor knows, they already have unbrookable authority over life; now they are demanding death for their purview as well.)
People have a right to kill themselves, however they like, and by whatever means they choose: including drugs. Period. This has nothing to do with whether suicide is a good thing. It is only that, if one actually wished to enforce a non-right to suicide—-and the temptation will always be there—-the regime would be beyond totalitarian. Even in our supposedly free society, we grant any self-appointed guardian the right to pre-emptively coerce against suicide (professional guardians have that as an obligation). In an ideal world, I suppose this might be survivable. In our world, where coercion and abuse are dished out for the flimsiest and most self-serving reasons, from intimate family circumstances all the way to impersonal corporate offices; where narcissists and high-functioning sociopaths zoom up gold-paved highways to power—–it is a moral monstrosity.
I do not, however, think we should ever glibly dismiss the question of whether suicide is a good idea. The finality of the decision requires careful thought. The usual argument against it is that it hurts those around us. There is something to that, though I would take it more seriously if friends and family did not, under the tutelage of psychiatry, feel entitled to act as jailers. But in the final analysis, you do not owe your life to other people, even to those that gave you life: to assert otherwise is foundational to a kind of slavery.
Where I question suicide is in what the author leaves unquestioned: that it is an escape. I would want to be very sure of that before reaching for the off-switch; and unfortunately, even for a strict materialist and atheist, there are no guarantees. Atheism may guarantee that your life is finite, but it does not guarantee that your experience of it effectively is. Intensity of experience, and subjective sense of time, are tremendously malleable. There is, for instance, the commonplace description of what people experience during a car crash and other deadly situations: time stretching out.
In other words, the subjective time between pulling the trigger, and the final dissolution of consciousness as the bullet tears through the brain, may be much longer than you think: under a materialist presumption, it cannot be infinite, but it is entirely possible that it will be so long that it will dwarf your entire prior experience of life. (If this does not seem plausible, a psychedelic session may make it so.)
If that is so, how you feel during that abnormally long time-span will determine whether it really is an effective escape. The ancient wisdom that the way we live our lives and the way we die determine whatever comes next, then, is beginning to seem quite reasonable—-even for an atheist.
But as a psychiatric survivor, I also do not want to leave atheism unquestioned. I am sure there are plenty of people here who have been hospitalized after intense spiritual experiences, and to whom the thought has occurred that atheism and materialism are, in our day, maintained by the oldest fallacy in the book: shoot the messenger. The only reason that broader society is unaware of the prophetic and the miraculous, is that the prophets have all been summarily imprisoned….
I object to atheism, then, as a presumed reality with an enforcement wing (all ideologies eventually become militant, do they not?). Anyone who presumes atheism on themselves should be fully aware of what they are signing up for. Now, as a purely intellectual presumption, it is delightful. The best kind of play requires a playground: science, engineering, and industry have blossomed in the duck-pond of materialism. But it should not escape our notice that the Inquisition, and the subsequent emergence of madhouses, immediately preceded the scientific revolution. If madmen had to be locked up so that mankind could eventually learn to fly—–so be it? But surely, this has gone on long enough!
I would never, never volunteer for death before undertaking a thorough investigation of spirituality. Though materialism has served science well, it has not done well for either the planet or for mankind. All civilizations and cultures other than our own have taken the larger, mostly invisible world very seriously.
After my own experience, I have disallowed suicide for myself—-except, perhaps, in the case of imminent and permanent enslavement (which psychiatry, quite conveniently, is more than willing to provide). So I would urge anyone facing the choice to look into spirituality. What does this practically mean?
The conventional Western wisdom would be to study sacred texts (preferably from the Western tradition only). When I was an undergraduate in physics, I used to spend all my time reading the textbooks; I never got around to doing the exercises. This is a poor way to learn physics; it is also a poor way to learn about God. I wouldn’t throw away the “textbooks” just yet, but they must be backed up by one’s own exercises: which may be as arduous and lifelong as a meditation practice, or as arduous and short-term as a psychedelic session.
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” would want to be very sure of that before reaching for the off-switch; and unfortunately, even for a strict materialist and atheist, there are no guarantees. ” – That is you. Not me.
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Notice how I phrased it: *I*. But I am pointing out a logical-philosophical problem that could apply to *anyone*.
Once we post public comments like this one or your article, it becomes about much more than you. Or me. I support (and salute) your personal right to do as you wish, but I do not want to pass up the opportunity to mention a difficulty that people reading this may not all have thought through.
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Well, fair enough. I just don’t see it as that much of a problem. And at least you didn’t express explicit hatred like the dragonslayer guy below.
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I don’t read his comments as hateful; I just see him expressing strong disagreement, which is far from the same thing.
Have you read any of the near death experiences literature, e.g. Raymond Moody’s Life after Life? I’m not trying to “convert” you or anyone else; I’m just curious about your take on it. Also curious if you have any feelings about psychedelic experience (which in some cases can give people a profound experience of “dying before death”.)
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Sigh. No, I don’t deal with that stuff. I know about NDEs and how it can be induced with drugs, but that is far from evidence that consciousness survives the brain (i mean, look at Phineas Gage, dammit).
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The reason I would consider “dealing with” that stuff is that it can give people a completely new type of experience, which often results in insights about self or the nature of reality. Is it just “the drugs”? That’s the big question: if it is just a random drug effect, maybe it can be ignored. But the way I understand it is that psychedelics dissolve how we “put together” experience in the ordinary manner, and force us to reach deeper into our psyche and survival instinct. Sidestepping issues of consciousness surviving death, and using my prior example, a bullet tearing through the brain coupled with the certain knowledge of impending death, might do something (very) roughly similar. So a psychedelic in that surface analysis is a rough way to “rehearse” death in a way that is (mostly) reversible. I say *mostly* because it could leave you with a changed mind!
The number of people who have changed their minds during suicide attempts gives me pause. Clearly they are faced with a type of experience they did not anticipate. I can only speculate, and not know, what that might be. I’ll mention some stories that come to mind. Ken Kesey spoke of a friend who tried to kill herself using a rag soaked with carbon tetrachloride. At the last moment she heard an overwhelming clamor: “What about the *rest* of us?” Her ego had decided to kill herself, but there were whole parts of her personality that she simply wasn’t aware of, and that wanted to live.
(When I had suicidal thoughts myself, I eventually realized that what I was trying to eliminate was *the life I currently have*, not the possibility of life itself. I needed a plane ticket *out*, not a gun.)
It was lucky for her that she still had the strength to snatch the rag off her face. Other people will not be so lucky. I read about a girl who burned herself to death (it can be found in “Confessions of an Rx drug pusher”), and only when her body was completely on fire decided to call 911—-surely with the knowledge that she would have to live with full-body burns and profound pain, if she survived (which she did not).
Still others relate jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, seeing their hands leave the railing…..and realizing they made a horrible mistake. They fall into the water, break multiple bones, and crawl out to begin life anew profoundly crippled.
The bottom line is that suicide is an extreme experience: and extreme experiences often completely change one’s perspective on life. Suddenly whole new reasons for living appear out of the blue, but there is often no way to act on this insight without having tremendous injuries, if it is possible to act at all. I am not advocating that anyone do psychedelics *in particular*, but I am advocating a no-stone-left-unturned “due diligence” before making a final decision to die—-and that would involve, necessarily, seeking extreme experiences that are reversible. There are plenty of ways to do this that don’t involve drugs (I’d mention Holotropic Breathwork; also more obvious things like adventure travel, sky diving….).
I wonder if you have also considered death by fasting. Ancient spiritual traditions have advocated this as a way to die (it is a spiritual technique in itself); after the first couple of days people are said to lose the desire for food altogether. It is a process that not only may grant insights, but presents plenty of opportunities to reverse course.
BTW, Phineas Gage is certainly a challenge to the naive conception of a personality surviving death. But consciousness surviving death does not imply that our consciousness cannot be affected by our brains and even our bodies. If you cut off my hands, and branded my tongue, and put out my eyes, I might be left with a profoundly changed personality, but I could not argue that you did anything to my brain (and surely you are not going to argue that consciousness resides in the hands and the tongue, or even the eyes!). The case of Phineas Gage requires us to regard any post-death consciousness as something that was at a minimum symbiotic with the brain during life. But that is far from a knock-down argument against there being any chance of independent survival. What people find on continued spiritual practice is a kind of essence that is quite different from an ordinary personality.
Putting together my own direct experience with readings about NDE’s and other unusual experiences, I personally do not have any doubts.
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Concerning NDEs that have already been mentioned, you knowledge about them seems to be very limited and largely misguided – for example, they cannot be induced by drugs; partially NDE-like experiences sometimes can, but they are a far cry from an actual deep NDE.
If you want to learn more about this topic, the best recommendation is not the old (and relatively superficial) Moody’s book, but much more recent, detailed and scientific (in the strictest sense of the word) Pim van Lommel’s “Consciousness Beyond Life”, which is still one of the very best works written about NDEs:
https://www.amazon.com/Consciousness-Beyond-Life-Near-Death-Experience/dp/0061777269/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519038822&sr=8-1&keywords=pim+van+lommel
Jeffery Long’s and Paul Perry’s “Evidence of the Afterlife” is also recommended:
https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Afterlife-Science-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0061452572/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0061452572&pd_rd_r=E37TCHZENWYY7YFSNAJF&pd_rd_w=IWLKC&pd_rd_wg=GSRTP&psc=1&refRID=E37TCHZENWYY7YFSNAJF
But my specific recommendation is one of the newest books on the subject, which examines in detail the evidence for one of the most important arguments for survival of consciousness beyond brain and body – verifiable extra-sensory perceptions by the clinical-death-undergoing experiencers (as well as other verifiable phenomena accompanying clinical death and the NDEs initiated by it). This is “The Self Does Not Die” by Titus Rivas, Rudolf Smit and Anny Dirven:
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Does-Not-Die-Experiences/dp/0997560800/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519039379&sr=1-1&keywords=self+does+not+die
If you (or anyone else here) wants to learn more about this book, I recommend to read the interview with Rivas and Smit (Dirven has recently deceased, unfortunately…), with myself being an interviewer. It is published on a parapsychological forum “Psience Quest” (in the form of 5 forum posts, since it was quite lengthy):
http://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-written-interview-with-rudolf-smit-and-titus-rivas
Whether you agree with it or not (you almost certainly will not… yet others may agree!), I think that work of Rivas, Smith and Dirven deserves to be learned about. Especially given that Titus Rivas is supporter of the critical psychiatry / anti-psychiatry cause as well – he supports voice-hearing people (not being one himself), participates in their communities and wrote a book in their defence:
https://www.zoominfo.com/p/Titus-Rivas/2084456312
http://www.academia.edu/4152604/Its_really_rather_normal_A_different_view_on_hearing_voices_and_seeing_images
And, most importantly – I do support your position that each and every person possesses an intrinsic freedom (and should be granted an inalienable and fundamental right in the current legal framework) to end their own life voluntarily, without interference or persecution from anyone, especially from coercive psychiatry.
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Lilla , The Due Process Clause of the 5th & 14th Amendments to the United States Constitution Also Support the Right of an Individual to Choose Voluntary Death
The 9th Amendment to the
Constitution Also Supports this
Right, to Choose a Voluntary Death
The late Dr. Jack Kevorkian Supported the 9th Amendment
See https://hls.harvard.edu/today/kevorkian-champions-9th-amendment-rights-during-talk-at-hls/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz0C0JpVqnM
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And no, death by fasting would be noticed. I won’t use drugs either. And you can’t force me into this spiritual stuff nor scare me with it into changing my mind. There is no “rest of us” in my case.
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I don’t seek an “extreme experience”. I seek a relatively gentle end to experience. The methods you mention are painful and uncertain, clearly the people employing them had not done their research to the extent I have, and/or had no other, quicker and less painful ways available. Which btw wouldn’t be an issue if the right to die was universally recognized.
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Not trying to force or scare you into anything. As I should reiterate again I think you have an absolute right to do as you wish. I am only putting out food for thought. When faced with an irreversible decision, keeping an open mind would seem to be even more important than it usually is. I don’t care about *changing* people’s minds, but for many more reasons than I can enumerate I care about \open minds. Psychiatry—-now there’s the opposite of an open mind. The best way I can fight closed-mindedness like psychiatry is to keep an open mind myself.
I didn’t want to believe in all this spiritual stuff either—-especially not anything that could be branded as “New Age”. But in the end I was faced with the choice between admitting to myself there might be “something to it”, and keeping a closed mind. And a closed mind isn’t worth it.
How can you tell whether you have a closed mind? One never wants to admit it. One way around it might be to ask, “how do I know?” For instance, how do you know there is no “rest of us” in your case? What have you done to give the “rest of us” a chance to speak? How can you prove the negative? I don’t ask you to answer these questions for \me, but for \yourself.
And if you could spend a few days, or a week, or even a month, trying something you have never tried before, that large numbers of people have historically believed to be helpful—-to give that “rest of us” a chance to speak—-my question is: why \not? What’s the rush? What’s the harm in trying?
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Why not? Because you do not dictate to me what I do. I don’t want to “prove” you wrong or change your mind. Your journey is yours. However, we are looking for different things. My mind might as well be closed, but that is none of your business.
Also, I already tried “spiritual” experiences, years ago. So yeah, I already did that. Also had an attempt and it was not my fault that it failed, I got intervened on. That’s when I decided I’m not trying again until I’m pretty certain it’ll work.
So there is no “harm in trying”. But there is in your threats. I already have my answer.
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Lilla , did you see this article
http://wayneramsay.com/suicide.htm it’s about Suicide and the
Right To Die being a
Civil Right
We Must Expose the Sinister Evil
Criminal Nature of
Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention ,
Forced Living Extremism
The “Suicide Prevention”
Control Freaks and Thought Police
Never Know when to Quit
And give it a Rest already
They are like Relentless
Stalkers that Stalk people for Decades upon Decades upon Decades
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Btw on the “open mind” thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
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I know that claims of consciousness surviving death haven’t been proven in the laboratory, but I don’t see how reports of Phineas Gage’s personality changes following his accident prove consciousness can’t survive death. He had a three foot iron rod blasted through his skull. That ought to be enough to make just anybody cranky.
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Here’s food for thought. People already think those with SMI labels are unworthy of making any medical decisions for themselves–including the right to refuse cruel and pointless “treatments.” What if relatives and other “care providers” start euthanizing the “mentally ill” without their consent?
Of course Aunt Betty SAYS she doesn’t want to die. She’s crazy and doesn’t know how meaningless her life is. How fortunate for her that we–her sane providers–do.
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Good point. The German psychiatrists used the same mode of thinking when they began the mass extermination of the “mentally ill” in the 1930’s in Germany. They wanted to put them out of their “misery” so they gassed them in the first gas chambers and then burned their thousands of bodies in the ovens. This is where the Nazis got the gas chambers and ovens from in the first place. We were also referred to as “useless eaters” who were not worthy to take up space and breathe the air.
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Where did I say any of that?
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Stephen is replying to Zoe’s comment immediately above his, not to you, Lila.
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I didn’t say what Zoe is acccusing me of, either.
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You didn’t say it – but –
It’s a slippery slope.
It’s ethically ambiguous enough that interpretations (as evidenced by this thread) are quite wide ranging.
Those who hold the power and the keys to the gates make the decisions, really, as to how these issues will be decided on a social scale.
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Lilla, I respect and defend your freedom to choose. I understand the arguments that you have made, and the arguments that those who oppose you have made. Respectfully, I disagree.
I don’t know if you are familiar with Thomas Szasz, but he tried to make similar arguments about a right to suicide. He was one of your fellow Hungarians, and a very smart and good man. It is unfortunate, because he understood very well the truth about psychiatry. I agree with you (and with Szasz) wholeheartedly that psychiatry has no business intervening in the lives of individuals, and that coercion and force are wrong. However, most of your arguments, on a variety of levels, do not hold up to scrutiny. It sounds like you have a lot to live for, including your father, your cats, your writing, your translating, your forklifting, your beautiful smile, and especially your opposition to psychiatry. We need as many opponents of psychiatry as possible, and we need them alive whenever possible.
First of all, the notion that suicide is a civil right is so far from being a “self-evident truth” that its hard to know where to start. This was the furthest thing from the minds of the Founding Fathers, and particularly from the minds of those who created the U.S. Constitution. (By the way, there wasn’t just one author of the Constitution. It was the work of many men, backed by the three authors who defended this work under the pseudonym “Publius.”) When Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence he originally wrote the following: “We hold these truths to be sacred and un-deniable.” Franklin edited this phrase to read: “We hold these truths to be self-evident.” What were these “self-evident truths”?
The first is that all men are created equal. The second is that they are endowed by their Creator (a problem for atheists, since the Founders clearly believed that rights do not emerge from nowhere) with certain unalienable rights. The third self-evident truth is that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The fourth is that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. The fifth is that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government. These are the self-evident truths that the Founders articulated. Nowhere was suicide even implied as a “self-evident truth” or a “right.”
Second, it is a gross misunderstanding of classical Greek philosophy, politics, and culture to claim that suicide was not frowned upon or condemned. In fact, most ancient city states criminalized self-killing. Plato’s discussion of self-killing in his dialogues Phaedo and the Laws is nuanced. Since Plato wrote in dialogue form, it is difficult to discern his own true opinion, but in these works his characters condemn suicide as an act of cowardice and laziness by those who are too weak to deal with life’s problems. He makes certain exceptions, but it is simply inaccurate to claim that suicide was even remotely considered a good thing by the ancient Greeks. Aristotle’s view on self-killing was also nuanced. From his voluminous writings, his only discussion of suicide is found in the Nicomachean Ethics, and the question he poses is whether or not it is possible to commit injustice to oneself. Aristotle’s view was that suicide was harmful to the community. But even these commentaries on self-killing (there was no specific word for our modern conception of suicide in ancient Greek or Latin) make it clear that the ancient Greek idea of self-killing had no connection whatsoever to our modern conception of “rights.”
Third, Christianity is not the only religion to condemn suicide. For good reason, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism… and many other religions also honor the sanctity of life.
Fourth, the Enlightenment was almost the exact opposite of what you describe. Many of the Enlightenment rationalists rejected classical and medieval concepts of nature and natural law as well as the tenets of Christianity.
So why isn’t suicide recognized as a right? Because thankfully there are too many people who still have common sense. I agree with you, however, that people should not be forcibly detained or “treated” against their will for talking about or even attempting suicide. Suicide prevention programs exacerbate the problem.
Another problem with your argument is that you claim that suicide is some sort of an escape, or a “way out.” This is a major problem for atheists especially. A person can only escape from something if that escape leads somewhere else. Furthermore, it is nonsensical to argue that atheists appreciate life more than religious people because they realize that there is only one life, because most religious people also recognize that we have only one life to live on earth, and that it matters very much.
And with all due respect, the argument that suicide is a celebration of individuality is the most irrational of them all. Self-annihilation is hardly a celebration of the self. Even though I’m sure that you are not a selfish person, the celebration of the self over everything else the very definition of selfishness.
Lilla, I don’t deny that you have made these arguments based on rational considerations, and not just emotional whims. The problem is that your rational considerations don’t hold up to scrutiny. I hope that you will reconsider your reasons for self-killing, not just because you are a person of value who makes the world a better place, but also because we need as many opponents of psychiatry to continue to fight the good fight against coercion and psychiatric abuse. Nevertheless, I defend your right to choose.
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1. I didn’t say single author, that was the editor’s addition. Original text of this article here: https://librarian-of-hell.deviantart.com/journal/Why-should-suicide-be-a-civil-right-726515510
Also, look up the living document narrative.
“However, most of your arguments, on a variety of levels, do not hold up to scrutiny”
Or maybe you didn’t get the point. I may have “a lot to live for”, in your perspective, but you have NO right to force me to live as you see fit. Maybe you need to apply better scrutiny.
“I hope that you will reconsider your reasons for self-killing” – I won’t. Period.
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Maybe you didn’t get my point either. I AGREE with you that neither I or anyone else can “force” you to live in any way. But I disagree with you that you can force people to believe that self-killing is a civil right or a self-evident truth. Clearly, they are not.
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I still maintain that the right to life implies the right to die. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWXTQ0Dr6mY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrHIS9gi1UQ
Also, you agree with me? Then why the whole “you are irrational and should be beaten” shtick? Especially without any explanation as for why.
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Where does SDP say, “You are irrational and should be beaten”? Maybe I missed the comment.
I want to prevent suicides–especially if the person might change his/her mind later. However, what a truly unhappy suicidal person needs is unconditional love and encouragement. Hence the need to keep my suicidal friends as far away from shrinks as possible!
If someone is determined to end their life there’s really nothing anyone can do to stop it. Being “treated” in a psych prison makes an unhappy person 10 X as likely to commit suicide in the near future. Many of these deaths occur even while in “psychiatric treatment” so hospitalization is no help at all!
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Lilla , Often Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called
“professionals” refuse to engage in Civil Debate and Discussions with us Reasonable Pro-choice
Right To Die, Death with Dignity Advocates and Activists for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people
Very Disturbing
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Lilla Bertalan , in the above comment by
Slaying_the_Dragon_of_Psychiatry
February 15, 2018 at 4:59 pm
Please Refute and Debunk
Points 1 to 4 made by that person in the comment , and the Various other arguments that person made
Thanks Again for Advocating for Choice , Plus America has
Separation of Church and State
Yet Pro-Life BS and
“Suicide Prevention” Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism , Intrusiveness, which makes Countless people Feel Very Uncomfortable, Very Uncomfortable
We should All Elaborate how
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism,
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness violates the
Separation of Church and State in many ways.
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There is a big difference between “self-determination,” whatever that might mean, and self-annihilation, or killing oneself. And for the record, I am not reiterating anything about how irrational you are or how you should be beaten. That’s absurd. If anything, I reiterate the truth that you are free to choose and that I respect your freedom to choose.
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Big difference? Where exactly?
Deciding WHEN and HOW to die, given that we all die anyway, is a part of self-determination, whether you like it or not.
Also, I didn’t mention the other religions because I’m not familiar with them, but hey. If you wanna talk about not holding up to scrutiny, attack people who make supernatural claims, not me.
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Lilla – i’ll stay out of the debate on the rightness or wrongness. TBH, i’m not sure. i believe in Jesus – but really try to avoid all the baggage assumed by the word Christian. i know you don’t, and my trying to slap that on you would just make you angry – which makes sense. but i guess i imagine it took a tsunami of pain to get you (anyone) to the point where taking one’s own life is an option. No judgment or advice from my side. But i just want to acknowledge your pain. i hope you find peace in this life, and in the next, if there is one. If there’s anything this sad old world can do to convince you to stick around – please let me know. Anyways, take care – you are a beautiful person.
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Lilla , Please write more Superb
Right To Die Articles when you can
The Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people are Relentless con artists
We Need to Peacefully Expose the Lies, Propaganda and Hypocrisy of the Pro-Lifers
Most of the hideous Problems in America and Worldwide are caused and worsened by All this
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” BS and Forced Living Extremism
The Mental Health “system” aka
Psychiatry makes impossible Unreasonable demands upon Suffering people
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The second is that they are endowed by their Creator (a problem for atheists, since the Founders clearly believed that rights do not emerge from nowhere) with certain unalienable rights.
Nope. Not a problem since most of them were deists. Even less of a problem for those of us who don’t treat their writings as holy writ.
Another problem with your argument is that you claim that suicide is some sort of an escape, or a “way out.” This is a major problem for atheists especially. A person can only escape from something if that escape leads somewhere else.
Nope. Not a problem. You are playing word games here. A person cannot be in pain if they don’t exist. In that sense, they do escape the pain by dying.
Furthermore, it is nonsensical to argue that atheists appreciate life more than religious people because they realize that there is only one life, because most religious people also recognize that we have only one life to live on earth, and that it matters very much.
Nope. This is some twisted logic. The fact that you are using the word ‘nonsense’ here makes it even worse.
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Most of the Founders were sincere Christians, many protestants, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Quakers, Lutherans, and even a few Roman Catholics. Washington, Adams, Jefferson and many others were influenced by, and adopted deist perspectives, but they also held strong religious beliefs and defended the first freedom, namely freedom of religion. The founding documents, such as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are not holy writ, but they might as well be, since, like the Bible, no one reads them or understands them anymore.
Uprising, your word games don’t work on me. The word “escape” is derived from the vulgar Latin “excappare,” meaning “to get out of one’s cape, or to leave a pursuer with just one’s cape.” An atheist can’t tell you what the cape is, or who the one leaving the cape might be, or where the one leaving the cape goes. The claim that suicide causes a person to no longer exist makes no sense to the vast majority of people, and an atheist has no proof for that assertion. Escaping means leaving one place and going somewhere else. Where is that somewhere else? What if suicide leads to even greater suffering after death? Something to think about. In any case, atheists can’t provide any persuasive evidence one way or another.
Finally, there is nothing twisted in the plain truth that I wrote about people of religious faith who understand that we have only one life to live on earth. Nonsensical is not a strong enough term to describe the claim that atheists appreciate life more than religious people. Absurd might be more appropriate. Is it possible for an atheist to appreciate life? I suppose so. Is it possible for an atheist to articulate the purpose of life? I have yet to hear a persuasive argument for that.
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Suicide should definitely be a civil right! It is the ultimate body autonomy. Whose life is it? Whose body is it? None but your own. Nobody else can know what makes anyone’s life worth living; that is entirely personal. Nobody else can know what personal values drive any personal decisions. People like to say “you only live once,” but I know that to be untrue for me. I do not just believe in reincarnation, no more that I believe in rocks or clouds- it is simply a reality, something I have experienced many times before. I remember past lives, and I remember what it is like to die. There is the sense that you are dissolving, and if you cling to this life, this ego-self, there can be fear and existential suffering. If, however, you can hold fast to the reality of universal connection, the understanding that we are each a unique expression of All-That-Is, surrendering one’s ego-self is freeing. For death is not dissolving into nothing; it is dissolving into everything. That is my truth, because that has been my experience.
My grandparents avoided doctors like the plague. They both insisted that they wanted to die naturally, at home in their own bed. I watched as their health declined, each of them in turn got coerced into a medical facility (with my grandmother it was a hospital; with my grandfather, a nursing home) and neither had what anyone would consider a “good death.” I made myself the promise that I would not travel that same road. I have my eye on my “canaries in the coal mine” that will let me know when to get out before it is too late. Of course I have my advance directives, my DNR, but I know that I can’t put much faith in them being respected, especially with the proliferation of Catholic-run hospitals (and they make it near impossible to find out whether a hospital is subject to the bishops’ directives). When my body can no longer do the things that make life worthwhile to me, I will have no qualms about ending it rather than endure the existential (and physical) suffering. Those that really know and love me know me well enough to understand this, and though my dying will cause grief, that eventuality is inescapable- everyone will die, and those left behind by them will grieve the loss. Loving me means letting go, means not wanting to let me linger in suffering when living becomes nothing but existing in suffering and misery. I never won an attendance award in school; I’m not looking to win one in life either.
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This is such a discussion-clarifying comment. In my own comment I risked making the unspoken assumption that non-materialistic beliefs would inevitably argue against suicide; clearly that is not true.
There’s another interesting point you bring up: using suicide as a means to escape involuntary medicine. I’ve seen this alluded to in other discussion forums: the respondents say they will make sure they succeed at their suicide attempts next time, so they can avoid being hospitalized again. What you help us realize is that involuntary medical care is not just a psychiatric issue: in fact it applies to nearly everyone at the end of life. That might help raise majoritarian interest in this problem.
I have a good friend who spent his whole career in the medical system, as a specialist, and now approaching ninety fears “medical kidnapping”: with the result that he stays in his own home most of the time: he is afraid if he travels some “good samaritan” might call 911 on him if he happens to fall ill away from home.
All of us psychiatric survivors know exactly what he means by “medical kidnapping”. I’ve seen it in other contexts too: I met someone who was kidnapped when she injured her back, and was held against her will by a rural trauma department that was trying to force her into back surgery. She ended up reaching her own doctor on the phone, and escaping the hospital by evading guards, hobbling out the front door, and calling a taxi. All she needed was a back brace, and the hospital lost its juicy bill for surgery.
What we have is a larger issue than psychiatric hospitalization. We are all in the grips of a rapacious, profit-driven system that forces care on us with inadequate or nonexistent consent. And large fractions of this abusive care are at the end of life and do not provide any substantial benefit in length or quality of life. I’m glad that you have a “Do Not Resucitate” order, but notice what you have never been given the chance to sign: a “Do Not Hospitalize” order.
Unless it is for a broken limb or an immediate injury that I can recover from, or a highly successful elective surgery, I hope never to see the inside of a hospital again. It is a profound indictment of our system that about the only way I could guarantee this is by watching out for my “canaries in the coal mine” and killing myself before I get picked up.
Let’s push for a civi right to suicide by all means, but let’s not forget the right to opt-out of medical care we don’t want. (And have already paid for, through insurance! But that’s another story.) If more people realized that they will likely die under the power of strangers, away from home and in a stressful and ugly environment, they might be less sanguine about our medical system, and more inclined to listen to psychiatric survivors.
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I agree wholeheartedly. We need to reclaim our rights of personal freedom from the ENTIRE medical establishment. I used to be a case manager for families who had a child with developmental disabilities, but I had a few adults living independently as well. One of them had high blood pressure but stopped taking the pills his doctor prescribed for it because of side effects he found intolerable. The independent living assistance agency threatened to drop him from services. He didn’t care; he knew his rights, and was quite assertive in saying so. They relented, but sent a nurse out to explain all the dire possible health consequences, documenting it to cover their liability. She did not change his mind, and they grudgingly accepted his choice. This was years ago- I have no doubt that the same situation today would result in a medical kidnapping (in the case of adults, should it be “medical abduction?”) as the law has changed making it easier for them to strip the rights of those labelled “gravely disabled.”
I am not home-bound like your elderly friend, but I share his fear/concern. My wife and I have a very clear understanding that if any life-threatening event happens to me in public, she is to whisk me away before any first responders can arrive on the scene.
I am with you about avoiding hospitals, but I went to the ER a few months ago (was losing sight, not something I could treat at home). Not only did they expect me to sign a carte blanche Consent for Treatment, they wanted me to sign it electronically before they even printed it out! No way. I do not sign those without altering them, crossing out the word “treatment” and replacing it with “diagnosis.” The whole notion of informed consent seems to have gone the way of privacy: people don’t insist on it anymore, they just sign it away without even reading the fine print. Seems people have forgotten the time-honored wisdom “never sign anything until you’ve read it twice.” They’ve also discarded the phrase “none of your business.” Those “assessments” that ask about my emotional state? None of your business. That’s the only answer they get. It’s the flipside of informed consent- informed refusal, which should also be our civil right.
Catholic-run hospital systems now own 60% of the hospital beds in the US, and it’s been in the news a lot regarding women’s reproductive health, but not much has been brought to light about how this will effect end-of-life care. With the baby boomers aging, though, it’s bound to become an issue. Everyone has a stake in this, you are right about that. I hope people wake up and realize that.
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Being asked to sign something without being allowed to read what you are signing….they could not say more clearly what is going on than by putting a sign outside the ER saying “Expect fraud and coercion”….
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One minor point: “not dissolving into nothing, but into everything”
Cute and all…but that sounds pretty much like the same thing to me. Because “everything” as in matter can’t be created nor destroyed; but also “nothing” as in that particular configuration of matter that leads to personal consciousness is being dismantled.
Also yep, the right to bodily autonomy does include refusing treatment (forced “care” is anything but caring).
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Hi Lila.
“Cute and all” sounds pretty insulting. Do you mean to be so abrasive in your responses?
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Puppies are “cute.” Kittens are “cute.” Rainbows and unicorns are “cute.” Existential matters? Not so much.
And I agree that you should consider stepping away from the keyboard until you are no longer tired and livid. The “troll” did not personally attack you as you did him. I hope the site moderators are reading all this. Him saying “It sounds like you have a lot to live for…” is not a personal attack. You calling him “a vile and disgusting human being,” however, certainly is.
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He did personally attack me. “It sounds like you have a lot to live for, including your father, your cats, your writing, your translating, your forklifting, your beautiful smile, and especially your opposition to psychiatry.” There is a personal attack right there.
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And I hope they are reading it too because I reported him, as well as the one saying I should be necessarily forced to have reversible “extreme experiences”.
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Please note I never said you should be *forced* to have extreme experiences: I advocated you try it for yourself under your own volition. There’s a world of difference in that.
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And I already told you that I won’t.
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It seems to me you also might have misread “….and that would involve, necessarily, seeking extreme experiences that are reversible”. “Necessarily” refers to “no stone left unturned”, not to legal compulsion. I hope you will forgive any infelicitous wordings: this is a fast-moving medium. Nobody’s perfect…
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I didn’t misread it. I rejected it. You can’t make me “try” “extreme experiences”. Experience is not what I’m after, but the lack of it.
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To return to where we started: this being a public forum, it is not simply a matter of me convincing you, or vice versa—-but communicating with anyone who reads this. I think it’s a useful discussion to have. And I don’t believe that offering reasons to back up one’s thinking to someone who is firmly convinced otherwise is a personal attack. That is campus radicalism, not reason.
Many people—-with conventional opinions—-will argue that the pitfalls of deciding to kill oneself are enough to militate for coercion. I am arguing, passionately, that there \are pitfalls, and \also that coercion is reprehensible. That distinction needs to be made.
Persuasion is a better thing than coercion every time, and there is nothing wrong with trying it.
I also want to make very clear that I do *not* believe you are making the wrong decision. It would be presumptuous of me to say this; it would even be presumptuous of your best friend to say such a thing! Nobody knows the half of it other than you. *All* I am doing is enumerating reasons you *might* be wrong. If *I* were in the process of making an irreversible decision, I would want to know and directly consider every reason I might be wrong. Such reasons can be given to a certain extent independent of direct knowledge of an individual’s situation, because some (not all) of these reasons are universals.
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Yeahh…sure…I can never be right…. Okay, whatever.
” I would want to know and directly consider every reason I might be wrong” – Except I already did that. But I already know you won’t like me no matter what I say, so I won’t bother.
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I’m going to step back and let you have the last word, but let me point out I have never expressed *dislike* of you. We haven’t met, and from your writing I personally find you quite likeable! And I welcome any efforts to persuade me to change \my mind. I’ve written at length, though, because persuading requires detail.
If you have considered all possible angles, that is a wonderful thing, and forgive me for appearing to presume otherwise. But again, part of this discussion is for bystanders. The reasons I have enumerated against suicide were not already present in the discussion. That is enough to make them worth mentioning: and of course I had no way of knowing that you \had considered them already.
One thing I want to highlight as a valuable contribution to this discussion: your point that one doesn’t have to be in any emotional distress to consider suicide: i.e. wishing to kill yourself cannot be taken to \imply that you are in any emotional distress. That, of course, is how peremptory psychiatric coercion is justified. You were right to attack it at the very root. And my consideration of the (possibly abstruse) question of what happens when you actually approach death and eventually die, is not to be taken as a negation of that point. It’s another department altogether.
One way you can strengthen the case that you are not being emotional is not to react in any emotional way to comments here. I shall leave it to yourself to determine whether you have done so. I’ll add that you have every right to get angry at people who do not know you raising niggling and possibly stupid objections; but you have no control, unfortunately, over how someone who is not inclined to be persuaded by your case might react to such anger. And surely you wish to persuade, and not merely preach to the choir?
And on that matter I am a half-cheerleader: I am, as I said, passionately convinced that suicide \is a civil right, but wholly \unconvinced that it is nearly so much of a good idea as those who wish to do it are inclined to think. If I were politically, and not philosophically minded, I would swallow my objection to the second part of your case to strengthen my support for the first part: because I think the \civil right to suicide is a lynchpin of human freedom and a fundamental blow against meddlesome tyranny, which always in all guises claims to be for the benefit of its victims.
(If there were a right to suicide, for instance, could there ever be such a thing as slavery? The first members of a population that had been marked for enslavement would find their way off this mortal coil, and the next wave of slavers would get the message not to bother.)
Therefore, my final sentiment is one of thanks to you, for having the courage to raise this topic here (and let us not deny that it \does take courage), and to put down some good arguments.
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“One way you can strengthen the case that you are not being emotional is not to react in any emotional way to comments here. I shall leave it to yourself to determine whether you have done so. I’ll add that you have every right to get angry at people who do not know you raising niggling and possibly stupid objections; but you have no control, unfortunately, over how someone who is not inclined to be persuaded by your case might react to such anger. And surely you wish to persuade, and not merely preach to the choir?”
Got a point there. This matter needs more thorough treatment and I most certainly will get back to it. I didn’t expect this article to even be put here, it took the admins about a month to get to it. And I was told it’s gonna be a friendly environment, which it proved not to be in the slightest. The slavery thing is interesting too, I know of a story about a former slave who said that if he were to be recaptured, he’d end it all right away.
And yeah, I tend to react with anger when it is suggested that I should be subjected to meditative etc. experiences, I mean, you people are supposed to be against psychiatric treatment, and that doesn’t sound much different, from my angle. Also, the “you’ll change your mind at the last minute” jeer has also been used by a former family member, so I have an urge to prove it wrong already. Same with the “you have a pretty face so you shouldn’t have rights” kind of argument… But if I want to address the entirety of this thread, that will take a whole another article.
So I’ll do just that.
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It always amazes me when I realize that most of the money that’s spent on health care for an individual is spent at the very end of that person’s life. Heroic measures are done, costing tons of money, to prolong the person’s life, no matter what. Very few doctors are able to allow their patients to die with any dignity at all.
I was a chaplain for fifteen years in medical hospitals and in a very large retirement/nursing home and saw this happen over and over again. And don’t think that family members aren’t complicit in all of this. I’ve seen family members keep loved ones on respirators for months although the person’s brain was dead and they were only inflating lungs and circulating the blood. We’ve come to a very nasty place in medicine where the end of life issues are concerned.
My one big concern is that when the my “canaries” start dying that I’ll have the courage to take my own life so that I won’t be subjected to such disrespectful “medical care”, all for my own good of course.
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Lavender Sage
What you wrote here about the universal connection between all things and that death is “dissolving into everything” is part of why Hinduism, Buddhism(although it doesn’t explicitly state it since they want you to come to this awareness on your own), and the mystical groups within Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all believe that we are all God, since we all contain the One, Eternal, and Transcendent Consciousness. This is what permeates and binds everything in the Universe together. Everything is the manifestation of God that is conscious, in whatever way. I believe that this is why Hindus perform Namaste to others, since each of us contains the entire Universe within us.
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Wow, Stephen, what a beautiful affirmation of my experience! Thank you very much! I always love reading your comments and replies. I wish there was a way to have MIA as a physical place, a coffee house maybe, that we could Tron (movie reference) our way into through the computers, so we could sit and have deep discussions together. Folks lonely or in pain could find soft eyes, warm hugs, hot cocoa. Really support each other, you know?
I have a friend who had done some chaplain work in prisons. I was contemplating that- what it would be like to hold sacred space and be able to connect with a person who had committed heinous crimes, how would I get past judgement, how could I possibly open my heart? And I realized that the answer was simple: they are no less a manifestation of All-That-Is than I am; there is no separation. I find comfort in the notion that we choose to embark on each human journey we take as spiritual beings, that we have informed consent, if you will, about the circumstances of our birth. I am not a victim of my life, though I have been victimized/traumatized by others. I know profoundly that some of the most awful experiences can produce growth and change that would not come about otherwise. Like my friend’s mom who is grateful for all that she discovered about herself on the healing journey she found herself on after being raped. The rape experience made her look deep within, it challenged her faith- in God, in herself, in humanity at large. She found places within herself that she had never had reason to access before: founts of strength, determination, courage to fully inhabit her own life. Her rapist had facilitated that growth experience, and in acknowledging that, she forgave him. Kinda like without Pilate’s role, there would be no resurrection story.
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LavenderSage , you typed
“Suicide should definitely be a civil right! ”
It MUST, It MUST ,
People with Mental illness are
Not stupid or Incompetent
They are Fully Aware that they are Suffering Unbearably and that
sadly very often in Life things
Never “Get Better” just worse and worse
That sadly Many Problems are indeed
Permanent
The “freedom” in America is a Joke
Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and bodies
Not even that , Pathetic
Such a Wonderful “free country”
that America is , NOT
Suicide Prevention and Suicide Prohibition Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism is from the pits of Hell
The Pro-Lifers and Suicide Prevention people are Delusional and Liars
Looking at the Facebook page of the
“American Foundation for Suicide Prevention” in New York City, you can clearly see how Pathetic and Full of Propaganda, Lies, Hypocrisy and False Hope their Foundation is
They are a Scam Organization that only cares about Money
Never Forget that if
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was alive today in 2024 , he would be Speaking Out against Suicide Prevention and
Forced Living Extremism and in Support of the Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and All other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives and have Suffered for Decades upon Decades upon Decades
Dr. King would be against Impulsive Suicide, he would support a
Waiting Period
But Dr. King would be Against
Forced Living Extremism and Life till the bitter End Insanity, Many people have pointed out that the Bible does Not condemn Suicide , the Bible is Neutral regarding Suicide
The Bible does Not condemn Suicide
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“But somehow, if you are a ‘neurological … minority’, you aren’t entitled to acceptance and accommodation, only ostracism and coercion. It’s not at all surprising that such institutionalized bullying drives people to seek death — often a better alternative than ‘treatment.’” This statement addresses my disagreement with your article. I do not believe that you are part of a “neurological minority;” we are all part of a common humanity that seeks acceptance. I understand “neurological minority” to be a positive spin on “mental ill” rather than an understanding that “mental illness” is a myth and that injustice (institutional bullying) naturally causes painful emotional suffering. I believe that injustice and the pseudoscience of psychiatry are to blame for your motivation to end your life; I hope you will instead choose to continue to advocate for social justice.
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“I believe that injustice and the pseudoscience of psychiatry are to blame for your motivation to end your life” -That belief is wrong. I know just as well that mental illness is a myth, but I also know that different people have different abilities and talents. Some of which are rare, hence minority.
I do not experience “emotional suffering”. Only anger when I read comments like yours.
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I guess that I was “projecting” about my problems in life; I am sorry for intruding.
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This is my own observation and I own it, but you seem very prickly in most of your responses. I didn’t get the feeling that anyone was attacking you in their responses but you certainly seemed to come out blasting away at the slightest things.
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Hence the long comment below. I just feel like I’ve been going through the exact same argument over and over and over in the past two years.
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Addressing some objections to my thesis that voluntary death should be respected as a basic right for all people.
1. “This was the furthest thing from the minds of the Founding Fathers, and particularly from the minds of those who created the U.S. Constitution.” Oh, here is the “original intent” line of reasoning. On the face of it, this seems to have the most merit, citing quotes from the Founding Fathers that indicate they were not thinking of death rights when they spoke of unalienable rights. That may even be true. At the time, it wasn’t an issue on anyone’s political agenda – just like gay marriage wasn’t. It was not yet within the Overton window of public consciousness. However, when putting together the principles of the “great experiment”, they knew that if it is to be valid for another 300 years or more, it should be adapted and amended as new social and other issues are raised. As I said, no one was thinking of same-sex marriage when the laws allowing for interracial marriage were created, either – yet, these were used in the Obergefehl v. Hodges decision as a basis for extending equal marriage rights in 2015. Similarly, the argument that the right to life cannot be made into an obligation may not have been around in the 1770s, but in principle it still holds true. Bodily autonomy is the basis of all equality, and yet, pretty much all of these people we respect as the first warriors for equality were slaveholders. We no longer do that either, having recognized since then that slavery is a violation of bodily autonomy.
2. “The Creator” cited as the source of our rights is not a “problem for the atheist”. This, again, has to do with the timeframe issue. Before 1859, only Deism was a truly defensible position, because there wasn’t any alternative explanation for the origin of humanity yet. More on this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0m8e0akuMo (Emerging from nature is not “emerging from nowhere”.)
3. “I object to atheism, then, as a presumed reality with an enforcement wing (all ideologies eventually become militant, do they not?).” What is so “militant” about demanding evidence? If anything, religion has a power to enforce, we outsiders have none, so the assertion that atheism haas an “enforcement” wing is ridiculous based on demographics alone. Also, I obviously do not advocate for imprisoning people for having spiritual experiences – that was a strawman, deliberately constructed to attack my character instead of my reasoning. I even grant that some of these experiences have a basis in reality – it is by all means possible. But personal experience is by its nature – personal. What is one man’s experience is another’s hearsay. Until there is testable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence for the claim that there is any kind of spiritual realm, I cannot presume that there is one. There might be one, but neither of us truly knows that – not me, not you, not the spiritual guru, not the drug user, no one. All we have at hand is claims, supported by anecdotes. Should research be done about them? Of course. Should they be asserted based on unfalsifiable personal experience? Of course not! And are you seriously dismissing scientific standards of evidence as the mere establishment of a “playground” in an age where the same science has enabled our current way of life (including not having polio as a child, crossing previously impossible distances via aviation, having the free time and the tools – like computers – to have this very conversation, just to name a few things)? The toys from this “playground” demonstrably work. But even then, this is not enough to dismiss the right to choose one’s own time and manner of death. Even a spiritual experience can lead to opting for death, after all, so obstructing the choices of another person based on one’s own spiritual views is actually the “militant” thing to do. “I would urge anyone facing the choice to look into spirituality.” As I mentioned, I did so, albeit briefly and not fully on my own volition (it was mainly a result of sleep deprivation), but even if I didn’t – forcing people to “look into” spirituality to convince them to “disallow” suicide for themselves is just as coercive as the psychiatric practice you are so against.
4. “Her ego had decided to kill herself, but there were whole parts of her personality that she simply wasn’t aware of, and that wanted to live…It was lucky for her that she still had the strength to snatch the rag off her face. Other people will not be so lucky.” Sure, there are cases where fear and survival instinct might surface and a last-minute change of plan is initiated. This is why I advocate for equal access to better methods, including ones that don’t allow for a period of altered consciousness and panic reactions to take place; while I do agree with you that the decision should not be made without careful consideratiion (which I have already done). The stories of people who changed their minds are the ones that get public attention, used – as you have used them – as an argument to discourage suicide on the whole. This has no more merit to it as the argument that lesbians “just haven’t met the right man yet” or that childfree and antinatalist people are going through a “phase” and their primal instinct of procreation will eventually triumph. While this does happen in some cases, it’s not all of them. Many people try again, after they have been “rescued”, by the way, so this argument cuts both ways. And yes, the prospect of becoming irreversibly crippled is the main reason that keeps me from trying again until I have access to a way that is reasonably certain and/or (non-professional) assistance that ensures there is no possibility for failure.
5. “it is simply inaccurate to claim that suicide was even remotely considered a good thing by the ancient Greeks” – Good thing? Maybe not. Far less condemned and demonized than in current society? Definitely. And how about the Romans, whom you conveniently ignored? Most notably Petronius, who also chose this route for himself. As for cowardice and laziness, that is mostly personal opinion (and Epicureans would also dismiss it as such). I do agree however that our modern conception of rights did not fully exist back then. The idea of democracy does originate there, though, and it holds the beginning of the idea of rights – as an opposition to a nondemocratic system where the individual is unquestionably owned by his superiors, here we have the concept of the “consent by the governed”. Next of all, you want to prevent me from dying on the grounds that it’s “laziness”, even if we grant that me having my way might be “detrimental to the community” in some way? Dead people don’t pay taxes, eh? Do human beings only exist to serve their “community”? I think not. Also, do I need to bring up the fact that there used to be a far less fearful death culture? As evidenced by, say, numerous poets and authors expressing their comfort in mortality?
6. ” For good reason, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism… and many other religions also honor the sanctity of life.” Enforcing such “sanctity” on the basis of religion is still a #1 violation, though, no matter which religion is cited as justification for it. Also, for good reason? What exactly is that reason? You never mentioned that, other than a vague “common sense”, which holds no water in a legal discussion. (Also, quite ironically, all of those religions, and others, have fostered murder campaigns, while preaching about the sanctity of life. Murder is also a violation of the right to voluntary death, because the right to die cannot exist without the right to live. Two sides, same coin.)
7. “A person can only escape from something if that escape leads somewhere else.” False. Nonexistence by definition means that the undesirable situation is no longer being experienced.
8. “it is nonsensical to argue that atheists appreciate life more than religious people because they realize that there is only one life, because most religious people also recognize that we have only one life to live on earth, and that it matters very much” – Some religious people might. But most religions include the assertion that there is life after death. Which literally means that life on earth is only a (small) portion of the whole life experienced by the individual. You honestly don’t see how that notion cheapens earthly life at its core? If this is only a dress rehearsal for the afterlife, that makes it far less important than if it is the only life we get. Of course, religious people may actually have doubts about that, whether they acknowledge it or not. (See also here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaK6k4oZ20 )
9. “Self-annihilation is hardly a celebration of the self.” The act of self-annihilation in itself might not be seen as such, depending on one’s reasons to do so (for example, if one’s faced with the choice of existing as a forcibly modified, stunted version of himself, vs. not existing at all). But what if someone has already fulfilled what they could in life, and they have a plan for a “crowning act”, something that will establish and reinforce their legacy as an independent individual? Again, you ignore the fact that everyone dies; voluntary death is simply making a conscious decision about how and when that happens. (I wrote some poetry to illustrate that, btw, in case anyone is interested: https://librarian-of-hell.deviantart.com/art/Azalea-Death-Song-688004321 )
10. “we need as many opponents of psychiatry to continue to fight the good fight against coercion” Says the person who wants me to be coerced into living. You know that the only way to make me “reconsider” is to torture me until I give up on the very idea of dignity and, having my will broken, simply let others dictate how long I’m staying. If you truly respected my right to choose, as you say, you wouldn’t have raised objections to it, nor called me irrational for simply stating that I have that right. (Btw, G. K. Chesterton: “The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog.”)
11. The personal attack, calling me a “person of value”. I never understood this particular argument – if someone has “value”, that automatically means their rights need to be abrogated “for the greater good”? Also, how do you know what my value is to myself? You already have stated that I have no value to you (“your rational considerations don’t hold up to scrutiny”), and that my quality of life is of negligible value in your eyes (as long as I have my cats and whatever “to live for”, I must endure existence indefinitely, as you have argued), so what do you even mean by the “person of value” thing? You managed to contradict yourself. Speaking of which, you said “I defend your right to choose”, but then “I disagree with you that you can force people to believe that self-killing is a civil right” – first of all, I don’t want to force anyone to believe that, but it still remains a fact. I want my right to choose respected, not to be obstructed. That is what having it recognized as a civil right MEANS. You may believe that suicide is “bad” or that you would never choose it. You are completely free to believe that my choice is not one that you would make, and I have no objection for you choosing to live as long as you want. I truly respect your choice, but I damn as well demand that mine would also be treated the same way and without constant admonishment to “reconsider” or else! But this has been said before: “If you don’t like guns, don’t get one. If you don’t believe in gay marriage, don’t get gay married. If you don’t like drugs, don’t use them. If you don’t like abortion, don’t get one.” What I’m advocating for here is really that simple. (Also, I wrote about this before: https://librarian-of-hell.deviantart.com/journal/The-anti-choice-mindset-strikes-again-687671319 and here: https://librarian-of-hell.deviantart.com/journal/Nice-people-being-naughty-696524894 – specifically dealing with the “we need you alive” type objections in the second one.)
Also, I apologize for having been cranky last night in my initial responses. This administration is already testing my patience; Hobby Lobby and Masterpiece as #1 encroachments, and now likely there’ll be a #2 encroachment attempt coming on, and the weed thing (#10), and …just…stop this evil already! There hasn’t been a day yet in this year when I didn’t think “You are ruining the country my ethics are based on, what in the hell is wrong with you?!”
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Most people who try suicide do so out of impulse. Over 90 per cent regret it. Allowing assisted suicide would be a mistake as almost everyone would take their lives impulsively.
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And that is bad how exactly? Can’t regret it if you aren’t there… Just saying.
Also, where did you get that 90% from? Apparently I don’t fit that statistic…
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Citation needed. Also, what about those of us who don’t regret it?
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http://www.businessinsider.com/many-suicides-are-based-on-an-impulsive-decision-2014-8
Most people regret it than not. Shouldn’t protecting the lives of a majority have priority over a extremely tiny minority who would certainly want to die?
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What if they were MADE to regret it, by psychiatric treatment? Also, again, with the accusations of depression. No one asks the ones who completed it – and I would reckon that being determined makes it much likelier to be successful on the first attempt. Also, how do they know the decision was made within the last hours? Not many of us tell about having made the decision, for fear of intervention.
Also, transgender people are a “tiny minority” too; does that justify hate crimes and discrimination against them, just because it makes the majority comfortable?
Then again, if the 2A was actually respected, this wouldn’t even be a debate because we wouldn’t face the method availability problem.
And again – if it gets completed, there is no regret. So why is it a bad thing again?
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Thank you for this article. I didn’t see anything that I really disagreed in your post. I certainly don’t see how anybody could say that suicide is not a civil right.
If we consult Wikipedia on the subject:
“In most Western countries, suicide is no longer a crime.”
“No country in Europe currently considers suicide or attempted suicide to be a crime.”
“In the United States, suicide is not illegal but may be associated with penalties for those who attempt it”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide
If taking one’s life is not a crime, if it is not illegal, and thus it is legal, it is a civil right.
This is instructive because there was a time when attempting suicide was treated as a felonious offense allowing the state to take the life of the person who attempted to take his or her life.
https://unrealfacts.com/attempted-suicide-punishable-hanging-great-britain-1961/
Now we’ve gone full circle with the state endeavoring to force people to continue living regardless of their own wishes on the matter, however, in so far as that goes, it is only failure that will illicit such efforts to save people from themselves. Anybody who has been successful at suicide has put themselves well beyond the reach of any law that we know of.
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Thanks!
“Anybody who has been successful at suicide has put themselves well beyond the reach of any law that we know of.” – Well, of course. Hence my focus on failure prevention (harm reduction). And the fact that people can still get prosecuted for being non-intervening witnesses (which does end up being cruel in some cases for the loved ones who have accepted the decision and want to be there when it happens). So there is still a need for discussion I guess.
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Lila, I totally agree with everything you said. You are a smart, intelligent woman and have great arguments. As an antinatalist myself, the act of imposition of life is the most immoral thing imaginable, yet people do it without any consideration to offspring. Still, such children who may be born to such an world which is full of suffering and are totally abandoned to their own luck (life is like a lottery) are forced to remain alive against their will. Really revolting that I had no choice about being brought into such an awful world and yet I don’t have the legitimate right to opt out of the life I couldn’t consent to have. Pathetic. Unhappily we live in such an ardently life-affirming culture that sees birth as a miracle and suicide as an awful sin. To this day these subjects are still taboos. But there’s something I’d like to say. I totally respect your right to suicide whenever you want as you want. But I think us who believe in the right to suicide should fight for this cause. Most of the rights we are thankfully able to enjoy today didn’t come easy. They were conquered with struggle, blood, sacrifice and much fight. My life hasn’t been easy and even though I’d prefer not being alive right now, I find a greatest purpose in helping people, animals and fighting for the causes I defend such as antinatalism and the right to suicide. If everyone who is believes in this right, kill themselves quickly, this movement won’t ever get anywhere. We need to grow in number, and protest for our right, so we can finally legalize it and thankfully in the future, other people won’t have to face the hardships we had to face to leave this world. I imagine a world where people don’t have to face extreme physical pain as many people agonize due to various methods they chose to suicide, and they’d have the option to leave it peacefully and decently. I’d rather sacrifice myself for a better world than giving up. I’ll keep living until we can achieve this purpose.
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“But I think us who believe in the right to suicide should fight for this cause.” – That’s what I’m doing here right now, until my planned time comes. 🙂
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Our Pharma/Psychiatric Overlords will soon allow us the right to die. Even if we prefer to live.
The reasons psychiatrists oppose suicide are:
1. Accusing suicidal people of mental illness brings in more “consumers”–ka-ching!
2. If more suicides were successful they would lose “consumers” thus lowering profits.
3. And–for now–opposing suicide makes them appear humane. Not like Nazis, but benevolent humanitarians. Saying, “We should euthanize all the mentally ill crazies” is still bad PR somehow.
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Zoe , People Before Profits
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention
Forced Living Extremism is
Pure Evil
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If a condemned person has a heart attack on the way to their execution they will be given emergency medical treatment and will not be executed until they’re healthy enough. Such is the system’s concern for human rights and the sanctity of life.
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and they call us “crazy!”
Reminds me of an episode of Grey’s Anatomy where a death row prisoner scheduled for execution in 4 days is brought in because he was stabbed. He has a brain bleed and they do surgery, but his intercranial pressure keeps rising and they want to go back in, but he refuses. He wants them to let him die and donate his organs to the boy in the PICU dying of liver failure (he’s a perfect match). They insist on intervening as soon as he loses consciousness.
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There is no law against suicide. The majority of the UK, where I live, are not religious.
There are suicide prevention strategies which have some sensible ideas like making it harder to jump in front of trains. There are suicide prevention strategies that ignore that poverty and bullying at work are big drivers of suicide.
There are laws against helping people kill themselves in most, but not all countries.
I am in the UK and I have a friend who contacted Dignitas, that Swiss assisted dying organisation. He has a diagnosis of schizophrenia. A few years ago they offered to kill him at a discounted rate.
He didn’t take up the offer, is slowly reducing his psyche drugs, gets therapy sometimes, and is now hopeful of a pleasant future.
He still gets letter from Dignitas, which makes money from killing people. I think he asked them to take him off their database and so far they have not. Perhaps the death business is profit driven, just like psychiatry?
Disability organisations in the UK oppose assited dying for a host of reasons. Here is an article about it https://www.scope.org.uk/media/why-we-oppose-assisted-dying-bill.
I am undecided on the issue of assisted dying.
I think offering suicide to unhappy people when thier lives could be transfromed by proper social provision, better benerfits and taxing the billionaires until the pips squeak is in most cases immoral, espcially when people make money out of it.
The most anyone can offer anyone who wants to kill themselves is to try to understand why, often that will be enough for them to change their mind, though sometimes it isn’t.
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Not everyone who wants to die is unhappy.
And again, respecting death rights includes failure prevention (harm reduction). And there is the fact that people can still get prosecuted for being non-intervening witnesses (which does end up being cruel in some cases for the loved ones who have accepted the decision and want to be there when it happens).
And why would the goal be to change anyone’s mind?
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Also, the Dignitas story is likely not true. I applied for Dignitas too but they rejected me and never sent me any letters since then.
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I have saw the letters on two days ago.
The goal would be let the person know that you cared about them and you would miss them but to be open to listening to what they have to say. The effect is that often people change their minds. That for those who care about them is a pleasant out come as they still want their company.
I have never heard of people being persecuted for non intervening witnesses. Could you put up a link to a news story about that?
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Thomas Szasz got sued when one of his clients committed suicide. His offense, his methods were not those employed in standard practice, in other words, drug people, and if one dies by his or her own hand you can’t be sued, don’t drug them and you can.
The other problem is that this then makes the doctor’s task to employ every means at his disposal to “save” the client from him or herself whether the client wants to be “saved” or not. This is not exactly supporting the client’s interests as the client sees them. It is also a major breech of client doctor confidentiality.
I’m not sure where this stands in relation to non-intervening witnesses, I just know that now these psychologists are going after Donald Trump, and saying that “duty to warn” is being downplayed because of the Goldwater rule. “Duty to warn” involves warning the public about people who are “a danger to self and others.” If “mental health” professionals now have a “duty to warn” when it comes to “danger to self”, maybe you can see the problem. The physician or professional who doesn’t “warn” can be subject to litigation.
The state could prosecute, remember the girl (Dr. Breggin here at MIA did a series on the case) who was recently convicted for not doing enough to stop her boyfriend from killing himself, and call it something like criminally negligent homicide or man slaughter.
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Yeah they’re really jumping on the “diagnose Trump” bandwagon lately aren’t they? Wonder when someone here will get to plant an article supporting that.
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“The goal would be let the person know that you cared about them and you would miss them but to be open to listening to what they have to say. The effect is that often people change their minds. That for those who care about them is a pleasant out come as they still want their company.”
Yes, it is pleasant in a way, but it doesn’t change minds. It just means they want to be notified, or if possible, invited to the event (which is why I have a boomeranged email for everyone who cares, a list of about a dozen people). If it’s more than that, it’s a threat. And threats most definitely do not change minds, though they can change behavior via intimidation. Nevertheless, I did lose some friends over this, having had to stop contact with anyone who wasn’t open to letting go.
The other point was answered by Frank. (Thanks, btw.)
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Frank wrote about Szasz, a professional, not a friend or family member, which was your point.
Here in the UK mental, someone in my local bin set fire to themselves and the room they were in and died. There is an enquirey but I doubt anything will happen to anyone.
I can understand your concerns about professionals trying to restrain people who are suicidal but I think the answer to that is to end forced treatment. Indeed I doubt the problem you raise there will not end until forced treatment end.
Actually I think sometimes offering understanding does change minds, and sometimes it doesn’t. However I doubt that neither you are I are going to scout the internet to find evidence of our claims.
I’m still interested in news stories of those who were prosecuted for being witnesses to those who killed themselves.
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I agree about not forcing treatment on people, but as psychiatrists and “mental health” professionals are now compelled by law, in the USA anyway, to lock people up for their own protection, and, in part, this is protection from their own hands, I think that it would be a mistake to over simplify.
Michelle Carter was not a professional, and her situation was enlightening in many ways, and could be reviewed, if you should choose to go there.
https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/08/michelle-carter-text-boyfriend-death/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/08/michelle-carter-starts-prozac-sees-devil/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/08/michelle-carter-expert-witness-stop-blog/
https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09/michelle-carter-part-iv-did-she-tell-conrad-get-back-in-the-truck/
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Maybe “changing their minds” isn’t really the right phrase here. Perhaps “helping them remember their purpose” or “helping them process their pain” are what really make the difference. I agree that we can’t “change people’s minds,” but I’ve intervened in the lives of hundreds of people who were considering suicide, and helped almost all of them by helping them take a good look at what problem they were trying to solve by dying, and helping them come up with other ways that might solve the problem in a less final fashion. Most of the people I encountered did not WANT to die, they wanted to stop suffering and saw death as a certain means to do that. Of course, I worked at a crisis line, so those calling were almost all ambivalent about their intentions. I know there are people who genuinely want to end their lives and have their reasons, and I agree it’s not society’s job to “stop them” or “make them change their minds.” But that doesn’t mean we can’t help people who are suffering through compassionate listening and support.
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And that was my point.
Most though, and not all. If it was all then Dignitas would not exist.
I am still thinking this all over and am not plonking for one camp or the other as I stated above.
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The thread above is closed so I will reply here.
Thanks Frank. The Michelle case was a mess. Bullying someone by text or in some other online manner, who then kills themselves, should be a crime. That was not happening here but that was what the prosecution was alleging. The whole situation was a mess and legally what happened was appaling. However I dont’ think it is the same as standing by and being a witness to someone who want to end thier life.
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“that doesn’t mean we can’t help people who are suffering through compassionate listening and support.”
I don’t want your “support”. I won’t be commenting on this article anymore, as all I seem to get is hate and accusations of being in some mistaken emotional state.
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Lilla Bertalan , Thank you for writing a Superb Article in
Support of the
Right To Die ,
Voluntary Death with Dignity for
Any and All Suffering people
I loved reading it
Keep writing More Articles Speaking Out Against
Pro-Life BS Propaganda and
Suicide Prevention Forced Living Extremism
Countless people are unable to enjoy Life , and it’s because of All this Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Fanaticism and Obsessiveness
It’s so creepy
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Lilla , please write More Articles in Support of the Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity for any and all Suffering people
Including for people with Unbearable Mental illness
The Pro-Lifers are Relentless
We Must All Speak Out Against the Evils and Wickedness of
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
People Before Profits
Robin Williams should Not have had to brutally hang himself to End his Life of Suffering
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What this all comes down to is a religious/spiritual/philosophical debate about the existence and meaning of “death.” The more assertive anyone is about this the less I tend to trust their opinion, as no one seems to claim they’ve actually experienced it.
I remember the “Seth” entity channeled by Jane Roberts saying that we all choose our moments of birth AND death, some less “consciously” than others, so the question of suicide is in a sense moot.
Just to complicate things even more. 🙂
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Obviously, many people have experienced death. Psychiatry has accelerated that process in many cases. Many others have had near death experiences. Jesus Christ rose from the dead. All of these people have actually experienced death, and some have even told us about it. In any case, there is absolutely no evidence for the claim that death leads nowhere or to some sort of annihilation or extinction, so I would be very skeptical of anyone who attempts to make such claims.
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None of them are posting here was my point.
I just like to get under the skin of people who think that disembodied consciousness is a “self-evident” delusion, as no proof or disproof of this is possible within the parameters of Aristotelian logic, the only proof would/will be direct experience.
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Albert Camus: “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest — whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories — comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer.”
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Good article. My family is academically of this view, although this is probably the first article I’ve read by someone with an actual plan.
I haven’t read all the comments, but I did search the page for antipsychotics, neuroleptics, antidepressants to see if they were mentioned yet. I think they bring a factor in which is somewhat relevant to this website, rather muchly.
I haven’t engaged with someone on the path of ending it for unmedicated reasons, but I am currently assisting in a care capacity with someone who is more than likely having a temporary state brought on by meds known to bring this on.
In their case it just seems unthinkable to allow a temporary chemical state to dictate the course here. I’m not suggesting it’s been suggested anywhere, by the way. This narrative is stock for me because it’s my soulmate I’m talking about here.
Once they were off the meds, if it carried on, then I can’t guarantee that I’d stop going bezerk to keep them here. That’s just me and my stuff talking. It does seem to work to some extent insofar as sticking around goes.
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Why Not?
and then:
Why?
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Because I can.
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The most effective form of suicide is patience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NygkpYTVCWI
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You say “again”, Lilla. Did someone say your were on or off meds? I haven’t read all the comments.
My reference to your original article only served to define the contrast in motive and response. You expressed your decision calmly, and it was different to my wife’s situation, which is expressed as a response to unbearable distress and loneliness which neither me nor anyone is able to alleviate.
Then I started a tangent which I thought might have value here because of the connection to this website’s primary topic: medication-induced psychosis, including suicidality.
My soulmate wants to kill herself because of a hidden snag which exists because of neoliberalism, greed, laziness, authoritarianism, an unhappy childhood insofar as she describes it, and simple misunderstandings between people which is quite tragic.
It’s been said by apologists (not Alan Frances) that the rising mental illness rates are because we live in hard times, which is simply not true when compared with times in history when one part of the population was being bombed while the other part were considered cannon fodder by the decision-making class.
I can’t help thinking that people like my soulmate are effectively regarded as the new cannon-fodder, or at the very least disregarded in a banal unnatural selection process.
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Hard times become harder when the sources of unhappiness are mystified, and people are encouraged to blame themselves for the failures of the system.
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Hi, Lilla,
I’m not sure if you’re still checking the comments to your article, but after reading through many of the other comments I feel compelled to add a one myself. I’ve published elsewhere about the mental health industry in the US, about the grave historic and persistent abuses of patients, about the fundamental scientific problems with much of psychiatry and psychology, about the threats to confident inference about what works, and about the risks (like the high rates of misdiagnoses and wrong pharmaceutical prescriptions…) mental health patients incur. After researching and writing about these sobering elements of at least the US mental health system for nearly 30 years as a medical school faculty member and research scientist, I’ve lost faith in our system to right itself. There are just too many conflicts of interest, and lobbyists for health care powers hold more and more sway over legislators.
Not that you’re asking for it or need it, but I both support your (and everyone else’s) right to decide the when and how of their/our ending and agree with you that self determination rights are critical to self ownership. Nor should our individual decisions about our own lives–whether we want to die or not–be a matter for anyone else to weigh in on. At least that’s my opinion. The individual is the only person whose opinion matters as each of us is created without consent (of course), no one else is responsible for us, and even if the community did assume responsibility for its members’ wellbeing, it’s infeasible we could guarantee everyone what each of us needs to feel content.
I’ve stopped having this discussion with others. People can slip too easily into a condescending and even threatening tone, couching their judgment in faux concern. Like you, I am certain that when my time comes, I will do what I have reasoned is right for me. I have spent the better part of a decade carefully researching means and their risks. No, I’m not certain how things will go. It’s my hope things will go swiftly and painlessly for me–and for others who might have to deal with my remains. Interestingly, the passing of people like me would be far less messy (on average) if society recognized that we do not belong to the state or to other individuals, so we should be entitled to do with our own ultimate property (ourselves) as we see fit. So long as others aren’t placed in direct harm.
No disrespect meant to any other commenters, but some (many?) of the comments to you appalled me. I’m deeply sorry these are the kinds of responses you’ve gotten. Though I’m not surprised–as I’ve received the same kinds of replies whenever I’ve written openly about my stance on the ultimate personal decision. I refuse to discuss the matter with others now. Their opinions are simply irrelevant and the “help” so many feel entitled to force on me is decidedly unhelpful.
Thanks for your bravery in writing a pro-self-determination article. They’re far, far too rare. I’m deeply sorry you didn’t get far more support. I wish I could make up for some of the unpleasantness thrown your way above. Best to you.
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NWwanderer ,
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” are
Cowardly Weasels who hide behind Unjust Archaic Inhumane “Laws” Against Suicide
We will Never Forgive and Never Forget how the Pro-Life Suicide Prevention People and so-called “professionals”
Forced Suffering people to “live” in Misery Against Their Will, Against Their Will
At all costs to Suffer even More
There is No Forgiveness
Never Forgive, Never Forget,
Never Again
Abolish Suicide Prevention and
Forced Living Extremism
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NWwanderer , the
Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity Movement for Suffering
Mentally ill and All other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate Their Lives is About the
God Given Rights of
Bodily Autonomy, Self-Ownership,
Self-Determination, Bodily Sovereignty
Many people have also said that
without the Right To Die
A Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death we have No Rights at all , our asses are
Government Property and we are also
Lab rats and Guinea pigs for the
Medical, Mental Health “system”
Psychiatry,
The Vast Majority of Americans realize that the so-called “laws” Against Suicide are Heartless, Completely Heartless
The Right To Die, Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement is About
Compassion, Sympathy and Empathy for Suffering people
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Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Needs to be Abolished
Countless people have said that
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention has gone way too far for far too long
And that the
“American Foundation for Suicide Prevention” in New York City is a
Scam Organization
The Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “Professionals”
Make Everything Worse
The Unjust “Laws” Against Suicide Need to be Repealed to Allow Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people have a Legal and Available
Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
And No One should ever have their Request for a Doctor Assisted Death Denied
The Pro-Lifers won’t even Compromise on a Waiting Period
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We can all agree that
Psychiatry and the
Mental Health “system” is Nobody’s Friend
We Need to All Peacefully Lobby, Petition and Take out Lawsuits in America and Worldwide to Get Doctor Assisted Death
Voluntary Death made Legal and Available Everywhere in America and Worldwide
We Must Never stop Exposing the
Pure Evil and Wickedness of
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Forced Living Extremism
Never Forget that
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism is Slavery and State Sponsored Terrorism against Suffering people
Life is Not a “Gift”
It is a Cruel, Inhumane, Unjust
Imposition
Never Forget that Most of the Problems in America and Worldwide are sadly taking place because of the
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention People and their Life till the bitter End Extremism
We Need to Expose the Hypocrisy, Lies, Propaganda and False Hope of the
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Fanatics
They won’t even Compromise on a Waiting Period
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This is a Superb
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity website for any and All Suffering Human Beings, including for people with Unbearable Mental illness
http://www.therighttonolongerexist.com
Sadly there is still much
Pro-Life BS in our Society
Much Toxic Positivity
The Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement is about the Rights of Bodily Autonomy
Self-Ownership, Self-Determination
Pro-Life Dictators Such as
Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, Wesley J. Smith
and Kevin Hines are Disgusting
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We all Need to Expose the Lies of
Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, Wesley J. Smith
and Kevin Hines
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living is
ABUSE & Torture of Suffering People
Polls & Surveys have shown that Most people in America and Worldwide are Against “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism and Fully
Support letting Suffering Mentally ill , Terminally ill and other Suffering people decide for themselves the Time and Manner of their Deaths
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This is another great
Right To Die website
https://schopenhaueronmars.com/
In addition to
therighttonolongerexist.com
People are Afraid , Very Afraid of the Future, Terrified of the Future
More and More people are Speaking Out Against Suicide Prevention
And in Support of the Unstoppable
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for Any and All Suffering people
Lilla Bertalan is Courageous for Writing this Article in Support of
Suicide being a Civil Right , A Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death is a
Civil Right
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism is Unethical and Immoral
Civil Right
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This is a Superb
Right To Die YouTube video
https://youtu.be/JIVTqFfcwlQ?si=PinoCUK_zo_yC-i7 See also the other
YouTube videos by
Eye Doubt It
Countless people in America and Worldwide are Suffering in Silence
Suffering in Silence
Countless Mentally ill and other Suffering people are Suffering in Silence , they want to Die yet are Unable to , we All Need to Peacefully Speak Up on their
Behalf
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Overpopulation is NOT a
“Myth” it’s a FACT
America and the World is horribly Overpopulated and Overcrowded
8 Billion people and Growing
Overpopulation is a FACT
Earthly cannot handle 8 Billion people and Growing
Allowing Voluntary Assisted Suicide
Legal and Available, FREE of Charge
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
For Suffering Mentally ill , Incels, Homeless, Paraplegics, Quadriplegics and All other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives will help to Control Overpopulation in America and Worldwide
Countless people are Trapped in Lives and Bodies of Suffering with No End in Sight
Suicide Prevention is EVIL
And has no place in the Modern World
Overpopulation is NOT a “Myth”
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Overpopulation is a Fact
We cannot be in denial over it
With the World in 2024 being on the brink of World War III, America and other Nations have more important things to worry about than Suicide Prevention
And Forcing Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people to “live” in Misery Against Their Will at All costs to Suffer even More till the bitter End
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POSTING AS MODERATOR:
Mark, you have not contacted me by email or responded to my emails. I’m not sure you even received them at this point. I will no longer be able to post your comments until you contact me and we can have a conversation. Again, my email is [email protected] or [email protected]. It’s also listed in the “About” section of your home screen. Meanwhile, all of your posts will simply stay as “pending” until I hear from you. I’m not sure what else to do to get a response from you.
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Countless Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill and other Suffering people every single day in America and Worldwide are Forced into Lonely Painful Deaths
Lonely Painful Deaths
Others Commit Gruesome Public Suicides, by Jumping off
Tall Buildings or in front of fast oncoming trains , and traumatize people who are passing by, seeing the Gruesome dead bodies of people who killed themselves
If America and All Other Nations of the World would Actually
Listen to Reason and be Reasonable and Allow Assisted Suicide ,
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
FREE , 100 percent Free of Charge
For any and all Suffering people who Request To Die ,
Horrible Lonely Painful Suicides in Total Privacy and Gruesome Public Suicides would almost Never Happen
On many TV shows and Movies there are Jokes about Suicide and Jokes about people committing Suicide
Yet in Real Life it is No Joke, and Not
Funny how Suffering people who want to Die are Treated Worse than Criminals, Worse than Animals with no Rights at All, with Zero Rights, all because of
“Suicide Prevention” and Forced Living Crap, Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
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The Mental Health “system” aka
Psychiatry has a Very Irrational Paranoid Phobia & Fear of Suicide and of people Completing Suicide
Many people have said that the
Mental Health “system” and Psychiatry Needs to Realize that Suicide Happens , Get Over It
Get Used to it , Move on, and Just be Reasonable and allow Suffering people have a Voluntary Death with Dignity, Quick, Peaceful and Painless, FREE of Charge
Pro-Life BS and
“Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, and Supremacism is Very Medieval and has no place in the Modern World
Suicide has always happened in Human History and it Always will , no matter how Much
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Dictators, Clowns, Know it Alls and
“Professionals” try to Prevent it
So Might as well give Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill, Incels , Homeless, Paraplegics, Quadriplegics and other Suffering people a 100 percent
Free of Charge, Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death,
No Mess, No BS
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The “laws” in America and Most other Nations against Suicide and
Voluntary Death with Dignity for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people are too Extreme
Too Extreme, Too Extreme ,
No Exceptions
No Exceptions can be made to Allow Suffering people have a Peaceful Painless Death ,
FREE , Free of Charge
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
No Mess , No BS
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I get very passionate and intense often when speaking out against Injustice
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living is a hideous Injustice from the pits of Hell. The great
Dr. Jack Kevorkian himself wanted to Extend the Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity to people with Unbearable Mental illness and other Suffering people who were Not Terminally ill
Dr. Kevorkian understood that the
Right To Die Movement Must be All Inclusive and Never Discriminate against any type of Suffering person
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Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people want a Legal and Available
Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Death with Dignity, Doctor Assisted Death, Quick, Peaceful and Painless
Death with Dignity when they cannot even have a Life with Dignity or Happiness
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About Suicide Prevention
A fellow Right To Die Activist typed online in 2022
“We need to bombard “preventionists” and optimists with these facts:
According to the World Economic Forum –
50 million people (around 1 in 150) are living in modern day slavery.
22 million are in forced marriages
700 million live in absolute poverty (with over 800 million malnourished)
An estimated 1.3 billion people – or 16% of the global population – experience a significant disability today. – WHO
Across their lifetime, 1 in 3 women, around 736 million, are subjected to physical or sexual violence by an intimate partner or sexual violence from a non-partner – WHO
These are only based on 5 statistic. There’s 8 billion of us and we already covered over 2 billion people living in hellish situations.
No wonder 25 million people attempt each year. I’m surprised the number isn’t far higher. How can anyone see life as a net positive?”
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Posting as Moderator:
Mark, I am giving you until the end of today to respond to my emails or give me a working email address. If this does not occur, I will be forced to remove your right to post here, as having a working email is part of the posting guidelines.
My email is [email protected] or [email protected]. Please contact me TODAY.
Thanks.
— Steve
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Prevent Suicide Prevention
Support the Growing Right To Die
Movement !!!
We will Never Forgive the
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” and so-called “professionals” for the Needless Unspeakable Misery they cause and Prolonged
Never Forgive, Never Forget
Never Again
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Needs to be Abolished
So that All Suffering Human Beings can have a Legal and Available
Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
No Mess , No BS
Legality doesn’t Equal Morality
The “Laws” Against Suicide Need to be Repealed to Allow for Doctor Assisted Death for Any and All Suffering people who Request to Die
Never Forget that the United States of America is a big giant Fraud and Phony of a Nation, it was Never remotely a
“free country” or “land of the free” or
“Greatest Country in the World”
Such “freedom” that America has
When Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and own bodies
Not even that , Not even that
Not even that
America Sucks in many Ways
Sad but true
Total Lack of Bodily Autonomy,
Self-Ownership, Self-Determination ,
Bodily Sovereignty for Adults
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Besides Lilla Bertalan
More and More Heroic Individuals are Speaking Out against Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism and in Support of the Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity for Any and All Suffering people. And Yes, they have Explicitly Spoken Out in
Support of the Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity for people with Unbearable Mental illness
They understand that
Mental illness Suffering is often The Worst
We Cannot Discriminate in the Growing Right To Die Movement
Most people in America and Worldwide Refuse to Bow Down, Kiss the Ass, play the Stupid Little Games of the
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” or Feed Into
Their Sick Unhealthy Pathological Obsession Fixation with
“Suicide Prevention” by Force at All Costs Crap or Saving Lives at all Costs Crap
Suicide Happens All the Time
We hear about it All the Time
The World does Not End
Life Goes On
Yet some people still place
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention on a
Pedestal and Worship it , that’s
Idolatry and Sinful
People like Kevin Hines are guilty of this
Kevin Hines , Dr. E. Fuller Torrey &
Wesley J. Smith and others like them are all Full of Propaganda, Lies, Hypocrisy and False Hope that they give to Suffering people
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The Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals”
How would THEY feel if THEY were Forced to “live” in Misery Against Their Will at All costs to Suffer even More
How would THEY feel about it ?
How would THEY like it ?
How would THEY like it ?
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About Toxic Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism and Supremacism
Let me ask
Is anyone here a Danger to themselves ?
Anyone here a Danger to themselves ?
Raise your hand if you are a
Danger to Yourself
Show of hands if anyone here is a Danger to themselves
Psst, Hey you , that’s Right YOU
Reading this article comments
Let me ask you,
Are you, Are you a Danger to Yourself ?
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Dictators, Clowns and so-called “professionals” are So Annoying and Full of Themselves
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Now where is the Logic in
“laws” Against Suicide
Made many Decades ago by Heartless Ignorant Selfish people who Spoiled and Privileged to themselves Not have Unbearable Mental illness or Other Sufferings
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Looking at the Facebook page of the stupid idiot
“American Foundation for Suicide Prevention” in New York City
We can all see how full of Crap they are, that they offer Nothing but
Propaganda, Lies and False Hope that they give to Suffering people
People are Hurting and Very Afraid of the Future
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Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism, Life till the bitter End
Insanity and Madness is definitely
Slavery and State Sponsored Terrorism against Suffering people, Exploitation of Suffering people
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people are Treated worse than criminals
Worse than Animals with no Rights at All, with Zero Rights
All in the name of
“Suicide Prevention” and Forced Living BS
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I’ve read that Psychiatrists themselves have a Very High Suicide Rate
Yet part of their job is to
“prevent Suicide” in
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
Why can Psychiatrists themselves take their own lives and commit Suicide but their patients cannot
Why the Hypocrisy and Double Standards
Seriously Why ?
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Both Psychiatrists and Police Officers in
America Both have High
Suicide Rates
Part of Both Jobs is to
“Prevent Suicide” by Force at all Costs
So why can Police Officers and Psychiatrists Commit Suicide yet
Suffering people cannot
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Once Again , I’ve read in many places that in America
BOTH Police Officers and
Psychiatrists have a Very High
Suicide rate , rate of Completed
Suicide , Yet as we all know part of both Jobs is to “Prevent Suicide” by Force at all Costs, at all costs in Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people
So I’m still waiting for someone to Explain to me why
Both Police Officers and Psychiatrists get to kill themselves why they can kill themselves while Suffering people are Told we Must
“live” till the bitter End ,
Till the bitter End, No matter how Intolerable, or Unbearable our Sufferings Become
What about the Countless Suffering Adults who have No Dependents , No Husband or Wife, No Significant Other , No Children or even pets to Support , what’s so Terrible about letting them have a Voluntary Completely Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity
No Mess, No BS, No Fuss, No Muss
Myself and Countless Other people in our Growing
Right To Die , Voluntary
Death with Dignity Movement are
Deeply Tormented,
Deeply Tormented how our
Fellow Human Beings are
Unjustly Forced to “live” in Misery Against Their Will at All Costs to Suffer till the bitter End , Countless
Suffering Mentally ill and other types of Suffering people are Trapped in lives and bodies of Suffering with
No End in Sight
We Must Never Stop Peacefully Speaking Out Against
Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS
Most people in America and Worldwide agree that
Who is anyone or anything to unjustly play God and Force Suffering Mentally ill or any other type of Suffering person to “live” in Misery Against Their Will ?
What gives anyone or anything the Right to Decide for other Adults and Force them to “live” in
Misery Against Their Will at all costs
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Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Extremism makes Suffering people want to Die even More
The thing is that any Nation or
Society that makes “laws” Against Suicide ,
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who want to Die
Do NOT Care what the Stupid Unjust Sinister, Cruel , Inhumane, Sadistic,
Barbaric “laws” say Against Suicide
No One Cares, No One Cares what these Unjust “laws” say against Suicide
Robin Williams didn’t care before he killed himself
Countless Suffering People Hate Life and want to Die
Not Just people with
Mental illness and Terminal illness
But All sorts of Suffering person Hate Life and Want To Die
As many people have pointed out wanting to Die is NOT a
Mental illness
The fact is Many American citizens Hate America with a Passion because of the many Unjust
VERY Repressive and Oppressive “laws” that Forbid Adults from being Able to do What they want with their own lives and bodies , the
Specific Examples discussed here many times .
Why can’t America be a More
“Live and Let Live”
Libertarian Society ,
“Live and Let Live” but also
“Live and Let Die” for Countless Suffering People who just want to be Left Alone, Not bother anyone else and be Given a
Quick, Peaceful and Painless, Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
No Mess, No BS,
No Fuss, No Muss
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Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” cannot
Have it Both Ways
They cannot hope to Prevent Suicide and Save Lives and yet Not Improve Actual Quality of Life for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people and
Fix the Root Causes of people’s Misery
Create a Robust Social Safety Net for All Citizens , so that no one Ever becomes Homeless for any reason whatsoever
No one should ever have to be on the Streets or in the hideous unsafe
Homeless Shelter System
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people Need Far More Money
Far More Money
Better Quality Housing where each person can live Completely Alone
No Roommates , Not having to share a Kitchen or Bathroom
Since many people have Serious Problems with Roommates in Life
Talk is Cheap , Actions Speak Louder than Words
People who are Homeless or at Risk of becoming Homeless Need Safe
Alternatives to Living in the Streets or the Horrible Shelter System or living in a Car
Not everyone has relatives or friends that they can live with
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A Robust Social Safety Net
For All Americans
Especially for People in
Emergency Situations
Far Less Paperwork, Documentation
Red Tape, Hassle, Headache,
Waiting Periods
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Lilla Bertalan and Everyone Else
Also see this Blog from 2013
https://euthanasiaformentallyill.blogspot.com/?m=1 About
Unbearable Mental illness and the
Right To Die
Many people gave Superb comments to this Blog and the 2021 Blog
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The 2021 Blog is
Here
https://euthanasiamentallyill.blogspot.com/?m=1 About the
Right To Die for people with Unbearable Mental illness
Pro-Life BS and “Suicide Prevention”
Needs to be Abolished and Outlawed
Thus Allowing for
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people to Decide for themselves the time and manner of their Deaths
We can all agree that Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” and
Medical Profession are Nobody’s Friend
People Before Profits
Greed is Evil
Let’s be Frank
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness and Supremacism is a
Very Large part of the Reason why America and the World is a Living Hellish Chaotic Uncertain Unpredictable Nightmare
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With the 2013 Blog and 2021 Blog , Both Blogs have Many good comments in Support of the Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement
We should All Contribute Comments and plant the seeds for
Peaceful Change in America and Worldwide
The Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals”
Never Know when to Quit
People are living in
FEAR , Terror and Dread of the Future
Thanks to all this
Pro-Life BS Nonsense
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Never Forget that if
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were alive today he would Support the
Growing Right To Die ,
Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for Any and All Suffering who Hate
Life and Hate their Lives
Mentally ill, Terminally ill , Incels, Homeless, Paraplegics, Quadriplegics, etc.
He would definitely be Against
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism, Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness , he would be against Impulsive Suicide and Support a Waiting Period, but he would be Against any type of Suffering person being
Forced to “live” in Misery
Against Their Will at All costs to Suffer even More
The sad reality is that for many Suffering people things Never
“Get Better” only worse and worse
We All Need to Peacefully Lobby ,Petition and Take Out Lawsuits in America and Worldwide to Get Doctor Assisted Death Legalized Everywhere in America and Worldwide , for any and All Suffering people , it needs to be Completely Free of Charge , with Quick, Peaceful and Painless , 100 percent Effective Methods
No Mess, No BS
We Need to get A-List Hollywood Celebrities to Speak up for our Movement
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We Need to Take our
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for any and all Suffering people to the
United States Supreme Court
We have Superb Constitutional Arguments in Support of Our
Movement
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We All have a
Moral Obligation to Speak Out against
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention
Forced Living Extremism
The Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” want control over other people’s lives and bodies , that’s wrong and Evil
Just Watch how Quickly
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” would Change their Mind and Support the
Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement if they became Homeless, Incarcerated, Severely Disabled , etc
Just Watch
The sad Reality is that for Most people in America and Worldwide
Life is Not Beautiful , it is horribly Ugly, Grotesque and Stressful
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Once Again , Life is often Brutal
Cruel and unfair
Every Time we go out in Public
And we see Severely Physically Disabled people and people in wheelchairs , confined to wheelchairs
We Need to ask ourselves
How many are Severely Disabled and/or confined to Wheelchairs because of Very Serious Suicide Attempts
Real Attempts that were Not in any ways
“Cries for Help or Attention” but the Real Thing , and now they wish even More so that they had died
All the More Reason to have
Legal and Available , Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death for any and All Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
Including for people with Unbearable Mental illness , who often Suffer the Most and have many other Unbearable Problems in their Lives in Addition to the Mental illnesses they have
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Is anyone concerned about
Project 2025 and what it could mean for the Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement in America for Any and All Suffering people who want a Peaceful
Doctor Assisted Death
Especially for people with Unbearable Mental illness , Unbearable Mental Suffering
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The Reality is that Many Many people have pointed out that the Constitutional Rights of Americans to Free Speech and Privacy are at stake and jeopardized by all this
“Suicide Prevention” Crap
Saving Lives at all costs Crap
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness is the cause of
Most of the Hideous Problems in
America and Worldwide
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Forcing Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people to “live” in
Misery Against Their Will at All Costs to Suffer even More infringes upon the
The 1st Amendment Constitutional Rights , Religious Freedom of Christians and Suffering people of other Faiths who want to pass away Peacefully and Experience the Afterlife, Heaven
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Let’s be Honest
Even if things do ultimately Get Better for some Suffering people
Great , I’m Happy for them
Still it Proves Nothing
It Proves Absolutely Nothing
Because things will always go wrong again in the Future
Things will Always get worse again in the Future
Life has it’s Ups and Downs
Twists and Turns
We Must All have the Right to decide for ourselves when Enough is Enough and have the Option of a Legal and Available Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
We don’t want to be Government Property
Many people are unable to enjoy Life because of Suicide Prevention Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
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The sad Reality is that for Countless Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people Unbearable Problems are indeed Permanent, Problems such as
Hunger, Homelessness, Loneliness,
Social Isolation, etc.
Many Suffering people have Multiple
Problems that Never “get better”
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals”
Don’t give viable Alternatives to Suicide for Suffering people
It’s about Quality of Life, Quality Not Quantity
Making a Safer More Humane Society in America and Worldwide for All Human Beings , getting at the root Causes of people’s Misery and Fixing Those Problems
We Need a Paradigm Shift
All Human Beings Need the
Choice and Control, the Legal Option of a Completely Free of Charge
Legal and Available , Voluntary Doctor Assisted , Death and the Incredible Relief and
Peace of Mind Choice Brings, Voluntary Doctor Assisted Dying Needs to be Made Legal and Available Everywhere in America and Worldwide. No one should have to beg and grovel to Get an Assisted Death, No one should ever have their Request for a Doctor Assisted Death Denied
We Must Refute and Debunk the Lies,
False Hope and Propaganda of the
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Extremists and so-called “professionals”
Many people have stated that with America sadly heading towards a
Second Civil War and our Planet rapidly heading towards
World War III (some claim World War III has already begun)
That with all the hideous Problems in America and Worldwide , the Governments have More Important things to Worry about than
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention
Forced Living Extremism
Whatever happened to
“Live and Let Die” or “Let it Be”
What about Tolerance ?
We hear alot about Tolerance in Our
Society , What about Tolerance for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who Want a Peaceful Exit
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In Discussions and Debates about the
Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for any and all Suffering People
Many people have said bluntly that
Life isn’t for Everybody , that Not Everyone was meant to be born . That Everyone has a Right to live, but ONLY if they truly want to live , NOT because they are Forced or Coerced into living
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” has gone way too far for far too long
Suicide Prevention and
Suicide Prohibition doesn’t work , it makes Everything Worse
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Life and Human Existence isn’t all
Peaches and Cream and
Peachy Keen , I understand that
However it shouldn’t have to be a Living Hellish Chaotic Uncertain Unpredictable Nightmare either, where people are Afraid, Very Afraid of the Future
Suicide Prevention Needs to be Abolished, Thus Allowing for the
Voluntary Right To Die
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity for Suffering Mentally ill, and All Other Suffering people who want a Peaceful Quick and Painless Death
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Lilla Bertalan , this is a good
Right To Die article
https://hooverhog.typepad.com/hognotes/2008/09/hoover-hog-you-have-described-yourself-as-a-currently-non-practicing-suicide-what-does-this-meansister-y-i-am-very-much-i.html
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Good Article about the dishonest
Methods and Arguments of
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people
See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-courts-are-the-worst-place-to-address-complex-maid-cases/
We Cannot Discriminate in our Growing
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and All other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
Who are we to Judge Another person’s Suffering and pain
People feel pain differently
Not Everyone can handle alot of Stress
Not All Mental illness is Treatable
Not All Physical illnesses is Treatable
Often even with the best treatments, the intense Sufferings of Mental and Physical illnesses are only partially reduced, the symptoms are only partially Reduced
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention
Is Abuse, Torture and Exploitation of Suffering people
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More and More people are becoming
Anti-Life
We cannot Sugarcoat or Whitewash the hideous nature of Life and Human Existence
Countless people feel as if they are walking on Eggshells
Walking on Eggshells
They cannot enjoy their lives in the Present because of their painful pasts and they are Afraid , Very Afraid of the Future.
It’s about Quality of Life ,
Not Quantity
The Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and All other Suffering people Needs
Think Tanks to Find ways to make
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Profitable and Lucrative for Society, the Government and Medical, Mental Health “system” and at the same time
Completely Free of Charge for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who want a Quick, Peaceful and Painless Foolproof Doctor Assisted Death
No Mess, No BS
For Countless Suffering people with
Chronic Unbearable Mental illness they have many other severe hideous chronic Problems in their life in addition to the Mental illness that make their lives truly Miserable
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See this article
https://notdeadyet.org/robin-williams-and-the-hypocrisy-of-suicide-prevention-organizations/
While it’s from a Pro-Life BS website
It shows how “Suicide Prevention”
Organizations like the
“American Foundation for Suicide Prevention” in New York City are dishonest, hypocritical, scam organizations that only care about
Money
The Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement
For Doctor Assisted Death for
Any and All Suffering people who Request It
Is about the Rights of
Bodily Autonomy
Self-Ownership , Self-Determination
Bodily Sovereignty
This is the 21st Century
The year 2024
Not Medieval Europe during the
Middle Ages, Dark Ages
Where there was much Scientific Ignorance, Superstition,
Burning of witches, heretics
In Medieval Europe, During the Middle Ages, Dark Ages
Suicide was Falsely viewed as an
Unspeakable Evil, Taboo and Unforgivable Sin leading to Automatic Eternal
Damnation in Hell
There was a Taboo and Stigma surrounding Suicide in the Middle Ages, in Medieval, Dark Ages Europe
This is the 21st Century
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Countless Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people are
Suffering in Silence
They want to Die yet are unable to and
Pro-Life BS “Suicide Prevention” Dogmatic Extremism has gone way too far for far too long as Countless people have pointed out
Not Everyone can be Happy or
Successful in this Life
No matter how hard they try
Countless people are unable to be
Happy or Successful in this Life
Because of bad heredity, genetics, Environment, upbringing , traumatic events, Mental and/or Physical Conditions,
And these unhappy, unsuccessful less Fortunate people in Life are often deeply jealous and envious of people who are Happy and Successful in their Lives
Since Countless Suffering people cannot even have a Life with Dignity and Happiness, can they at least have
A Death with Dignity, at Least That
A Quick, Peaceful and Painless,
Completely Free of Charge
Legal and Available, Voluntary
Doctor Assisted Death , no one should ever have their Request for a
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity Denied, or have to beg and grovel for it
People have said
“Ignorance is Bliss” for a Reason
Because if people knew how bad things
Really are , and how bad things could really become , people would
Freak Out Big Time
We Cannot Speak Of
“Rights of the Mentally ill” unless we
Address the Vital
Right To Die , Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death issue for Suffering Mentally ill people who want a Peaceful Death
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism is so
Paternalistic, Condescending, infantilizing of Suffering people
Countless people with Mental illness have many other Unbearable Problems in their Life in Addition to their hideous
Mental illness
For Countless Suffering people things
Never get better , No Matter how Much
Treatment or “Help” they Get
We Need to Refute and Debunk the
False Arguments, Lies and Propaganda of the
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” People and so-called “professionals”
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism sadly backfires terribly on Society ,
Suicide Prevention and Suicide Prohibition sadly creates all sorts of horrible incidents every day in America and Worldwide
I have read that Psych Units and
Mental Hospitals are Nightmares not only for the Patients but also for the staff and doctors that work in them , it’s Hell for them also
Why can’t Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” listen to Reason and be Reasonable
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Another good article
https://nypost.com/2011/09/14/are-we-too-afraid-of-suicide/
by Jacob M. Appel himself a
Psychiatrist , he Makes good points about how “Suicide Prevention” and
“Saving Lives” has gotten out of control and gone way too far for far too long
In other articles Mr. Appel has
Expressed Support for the
Right To Die , Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity for Suffering Mentally ill people who Request To Die
Countless people can’t enjoy Life because of All this Pro-Life BS and
“Suicide Prevention” Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Extremism
Literally every single day, every single day
365 days a year
More and More Articles online are Appearing about “Suicide Prevention” and how Suicide Must be “Prevented” by Force at All costs
We Need to Peacefully Expose the
Brutality and Cruelty of
“Suicide Prevention” and how
Those opposed to the Right To Die are very narrow minded, with black and white thinking, they refuse to see the
Terrible harm to people and Society caused by Suicide Prevention,
Forced Living Extremism
Prohibition Never Works
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Another good article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3294744/amp/Andrew-Denton-argues-people-mental-illnesses-allowed-commit-suicide.html
Most people in America and Worldwide are Morally opposed to any type of Suffering person, Mentally ill, Terminally ill, etc. being Forced to “live” in
Misery Against Their Will at all costs to Suffer even More
Most , the Vast Majority of people in America and Worldwide support the Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity Movement for Any and All Suffering people who Request To Die .
Surveys and Polls all show this.
And show that the Vast Majority of
Disabled persons support Choice and the Growing Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement
Most people realize that
Pro-Life BS and “Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism is
Unethical, immoral, sinful and a hideous human rights Violation, a hideous civil Rights Violation, modern day Slavery and bondage , a crime against Humanity
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Another good article about the
Growing Right To Die Movement ,
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement
For People Suffering from Chronic Unbearable Mental illness
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/people-with-mental-illness-deserve-to-die-with-dignity-too_b_6637866/amp
Good to see that More and More people are Not Afraid to Speak Out Against the EVILS and Injustice of Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism & Supremacism
and in Support of Choice, Compassion and Control and the Peace of mind Choice Brings
Our Choice over our own lives and bodies
Our Choice for the Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity
Doctor Assisted Death
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Many people have been saying that
“Suicide Prevention” is complete BS
Many people have also said that
The whole concept of a Grown Adult being a “danger to themselves” is completely absurd
America is supposed to be a Free Country
Not the land of the Over Protective
Mommy and Daddy
Once Again
Is anyone here a
Danger to themselves ?
Anyone here a Danger to themselves ?
Raise your hand if you are a
Danger to Yourself
Anyone here a
Danger to themselves ?
Psst, Hey You , that’s right YOU
reading these comments
Let me ask you
Are You , Are You a Danger to Yourself ?
The Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement is About Respecting the Rights and Wishes of Suffering people
Why do Animals have More Rights to
A Death with Dignity than
Suffering Human Beings ?
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Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals”
Say that Problems are often
“Temporary” Really ?
How long is Temporary ?
6 months , 6 years , 10 years
20 years
No one should have to “live” in Misery Against Their Will for even a
“Temporary” period of time
After the Suicide of Robin Williams
Many people have pointed out that Suicide is Not Selfish or Cowardly
It is Not
However it is Extremely Selfish and Cowardly to Force Suffering Mentally ill or any other type of Suffering person to
“live” in Misery Against Their Will for even a “Temporary” period of time
And Cowardly to hide behind Unjust
Cruel, Inhumane, Sadistic, Barbaric
“laws” Against Suicide made by
Privileged people who were lucky Enough to Never have Unbearable Mental illness or other Sufferings
It is the Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” who are Unjustly Playing God , they Falsely feel that they can decide for others, the time and manner of their deaths
I have personally known people who are Suffering from Unbearable Mental illness and things Never “got better” for them
They are Chronically Lonely
Socially Isolated, unable to Get Love, Companionship, a Significant Other or even a date
Also They are often Chronically
Unemployed , living in Poverty, etc.
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Once Again , Countless people with Mental illness
They are Chronically Lonely
Socially Isolated, unable to Get Love, Companionship, a Significant Other or even a date, And they are Forced to Endure a Miserable Sexless Existence, No Sex , Human Touch or Contact
They are Suffering from hideous
Nightmares and bad dreams in their sleep
All the More Reason why they deserve the Right To Die , Voluntary Death With Dignity
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See Also this Article and
Comments people gave
https://www.madinamerica.com/2024/07/breaking-the-incel-cycle-understanding-and-addressing-the-crisis-of-male-loneliness-and-misogyny/
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About the above article about the Growing Incel Plight , the hideous
Incel Crisis in America and Worldwide
The Sufferings and Loneliness of Incels sadly gets worse and worse Every Day
America is Aiding and Abetting this Horrible Crisis
America and the World Must be More Proactive in Helping the
Countless people with
Chronic Incel ,
Involuntary Celibacy Problems
It’s NOT about
being “Entitled” to Sex
It’s about Sex , Human Touch and Contact being Vital Human Needs
For good Physical , Mental and Spiritual Health
Countless people in America alone Forced to Endure a Miserable Sexless Existence , that’s a Major part of the reason why America has such a Severe Mental Health Crisis
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America and All Other Nations in the World Need to be More
Proactive in Helping the Countless Adults unable to Get Sex Naturally for Various Reasons , it’s an
Extremely Serious Painful Problem for Countless people causing
Horrible Suffering
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Let me say, about people with
Chronic Long Term
Involuntary Celibacy, Incel Problems
I have a male friend who I will call
“Michael” who has Mental illness and is Socially Awkward , he is about 50 years old , he wants to have a girlfriend again, he told me that he had Girlfriends in the past . He lives in New York City , and Thanks to America being a
VERY Sexually Repressive Immature Childish Puritanical Uptight Puritan Nation that won’t be Reasonable and Legalize Paying for Sex ,
Sex Work, Prostitution for people with Special Needs, the Countless Adults unable to Get Sex Naturally
Because of America being Extremely
Anti-Freedom and Anti-Sex
Michael hasn’t had Sex even once
Not even once, Not even once
Not even once in over 20 years
over 20 years, over 20 years
Over Two Decades
Michael told me he would Pay for Sex via Prostitution, IF it was Legal
IF only it was Legal, he doesn’t want to Risk being Arrested for trying to pay for a Basic Human Desire with Another Consenting Adult , he doesn’t have the time or money to travel to remote areas of Nevada or Another Nation where Sex Work is Legal. America is Evil and Wrong for Denying Countless Sex Starved Adults like him the Right to
Paid Sex. Naturally Michael Hates
America for being a Very Sexually Repressive Nation as Compared to Most Other Nations of the World where Prostitution is Perfectly Legal in 2025 , and it’s No Big Deal
That Consenting Adults buy and sell
Sex ,
Michael told me that
Because he is unable to have Sex
That he. “Doesn’t even feel like a man anymore, doesn’t even feel like a human being, but a Freak of Nature, a Freak of Nature” he said that having Sex is part of what it means to be human
He gets jealous and envious of seeing other Men in Public with Girlfriends and Wives , and he can’t even get a date , and America Unjustly denies people like him the Right to Paid Sex ,
Which is Far Better than No Sex
Such “freedom” that America has
Forcing Countless Adults to go without Sex , a Basic Human Desire but Also a Vital Human Need
Doesn’t sound like
“freedom” to me or Countless other people ,
Most Americans want to see the
“Vice Squads” Abolished,
Let Police fight Real crime
Most American Men and Women alike are Reasonable, Support
Sexual Freedom for Adults and letting Consenting Adults
Buy and Sell Sex , via
Legalized Prostitution, Sex Work
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Countless Adults in America are sadly Chronically for years and Decades upon Decades
Lonely, Sexless, Dateless
Words cannot describe the pain and Suffering that this causes countless people. Plus we Need to Realize that as we get older , most people are going to have Severe Health Problems, making it difficult to get Sex and Relationships ,
Romantic Rejection is Very Painful for many people.
Something is Seriously Wrong,
Seriously Wrong and EVIL about America or Any Nation or Society that Forces people to go without Sex , by denying people the Right to Paid Sex
Countless Adults, Healthy and Disabled alike are unable to get Sex , Human Touch and Contact
This is a VERY serious Problem for
Countless people
Anyone can become disabled and/or
Incel as they get older
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I want to talk more about my friend Michael and how he is
Suffering , it’s no joke
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My friend Michael even said to me
About his intense Sufferings because of Not Getting Sex ,
Not even Once , Not even Once
In over 20 Years , over
Two Decades
Michael said to me while crying
“Gee, I wonder if I can be in
The Guinness Book of World Records for longest period of time for an Adult going without Sex”
Michael Hates America for Making him Suffer , he can’t stand the
United States and it’s horribly unjust
“laws” that worsen and exacerbate the Sufferings of Countless Adults
Again , The United States desperately Needs Real Freedom
Libertarian Freedom
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Yet Another good article about the
Right To Die for people with Unbearable Mental illness
https://thewalrus.ca/suicide-is-not-painless/
The Article is headlined
“It Doesn’t Get Better”
The Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity Movement is about Common Sense and Compassion, Sympathy and Empathy for the plight of Suffering people
The Right To Die is a
Personal Choice and an
Individual Right , as Countless people have said , Libertarian View
Common Sense , Logical and Rational
Valid Legitimate View
People Phrase it as
“Your Life, Your Choice”
“Our Life , Our Choice”
“My Life, My Choice”
Why is that so difficult for
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” to understand?
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Pro-Life BS and
“Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism is Very Draconian, Totalitarian, Authoritarian, Fascist, Tyrannical
As countless people have pointed out
The Mental Health “system” Pssychiatry makes Impossible, Unreasonable demands upon Suffering people
Countless people have also pointed out that wanting to die is not a Mental illness
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Again Countless people have said that
Wanting to Die is NOT a
Mental illness , The Reality is that Countless Suffering People Hate Life and Want To Die , Not just people with
Mental illness
Many have said that the
“American Foundation for Suicide Prevention” in New York City is a Disgusting Scam Organization,
Exploiters of Suffering people
If some people are Opposed to Doctor Assisted Death, Voluntary Death then they shouldn’t Use it themselves, but they have No Right to Deny Other People that Right and Freedom to Choose
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See also
https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/columns-butnercreedmoor/the-right-to-die-is-part-of-the-right-to-life/
About the Right To Die
Report comment
This is Another good
Right To Die Article
See https://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/lane-filler/sometimes-suicide-deserves-respect-lane-filler-o73878
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More about the Horrible Sufferings of
Mental illness
http://www.narpa.org/reference/to_be_a_mental_patient and why the
Right To Die , Voluntary Doctor Assisted suicide with Dignity, Legal and Available
Free of Charge is For Any and All Suffering people who Request to Die and
Give Explicit Consent
Countless people are unable to Enjoy Life because of All this
Pro-Life BS “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism and
“Saving Lives” at all costs Extremism
When people are Told that they Must Live till the bitter End no matter how Miserable or Unbearable their life becomes , this Fills Suffering people with Unbearable FEAR of the Future , making it Impossible for them to Enjoy their Lives in the present
We Need More Brave people to Speak Out against the Injustice of
Pro-Life BS and “Suicide Prevention” Extremism
People Before Profits , Greed is Bad
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” won’t help Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people Die , yet they won’t help Suffering people live Either , it’s About
Quality of Life , Not about how many Years or Decades of Existence can be Squeezed out of Suffering people, how many drops of Life can be Squeezed out of Suffering people , how many More years and Decades of Life can be added to a Human Life , Artificially and unnaturally prolonging a person’s Life, Miserable Existence
Sometimes people say
“Life is Short” but for Countless Suffering people Life is Not Short Enough
While many people have said that wanting to Die is Not a Mental illness
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A good Christian website about the
Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity
Doctor Assisted Death for people with Unbearable Sufferings ,
Including for people with Unbearable
Mental illness
See
https://christiansforvad.org.au/
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This is Another good Christian website for the Right To Die
https://www.dignityindying.org.uk/blog-post/christian-case-assisted-dying/
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As a Christian let me say this
Often Pastors say things like
“God will always be there for us”
Or
“God won’t ever give us more than we can bear” and Various other assurances like that
But the Sad Reality Many Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people are indeed Suffering Unbearably, Much More than they can bear
The sad Reality is for Many Suffering People things
Never “get better” Only Worse and Worse
Even if things do ultimately get better for some Suffering People , Great
I’m Happy for Them
Still it proves Absolutely Nothing
It proves Absolutely Nothing
Because things will Always find a way to go horribly wrong Again in the Future , it’s only a
Matter of Time , things go Wrong in all our lives
Life has it’s Ups and Downs
Twists and Turns
People feel pain differently
Not everyone can handle a lot of stress , people have different thresholds
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Yet Another good article about the
Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity for people Suffering with Unbearable Mental illness
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/opinion/medical-assistance-dying-mental-illness-maid.html
Countless people Suffering from Chronic Lifelong Mental illness have Many Other Unbearable Problems in their Life in Addition to the Mental illnesses
Countless people with Unbearable Mental illnesses have many other Severe Problems in their Life Because of the Mental illnesses , many other serious Problems that are the Result of having a Severe Mental illness
Unbearable Problems such as
Poverty, Hunger, Homelessness,
Unemployment, Loneliness,
Social Isolation, Incarceration, inability to find a Significant Other, a Relationship,
Physical Ailments , Stigma, etc.
The List goes on and on
The “Laws” Against Suicide are Horribly Cruel, Inhumane, Asinine, Outdated, Sadistic, Barbaric
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” are Guilty of Distorting Reality
Life Human Existence and the World is
Often Horribly Ugly , Stressful, Complicated and things are sadly getting worse and worse in America and Worldwide . That’s the sad Ugly Truth
I am Not a Pessimist, but a Realist
As stated Before
Because people with Mental illness often
have many other Unbearable Chronic Problems that are the Result of the Mental illness , that is All the More Reason why People with Unbearable Mental illness and All Other Suffering people that Hate Life and Hate their Lives Must have the Right to a
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
With Dignity
Quick, Peaceful and Painless, with
100 percent Effective Legal Lethal Methods
No More Botched or Failed
Suicide Attempts by Suffering People
It’s About Choice and the
Incredible Peace of Mind and Relief that
Choice Brings
For Countless Suffering People
Just having the Option of a
Legal and Available ,
Completely Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death brings Relief
Having the Option doesn’t doesn’t automatically mean that a Person will use it , but it’s about the Peace of Mind Choice Brings.
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I hate to be redundant
But this is Another Superb Article
About the Right To Die
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death for people with Chronic Unbearable Mental illness
https://www.dyingwithdignity.ca/blog/john_scully_story/
Many people have said that
Suicide Prevention is complete BS
Something is Seriously Wrong and Evil, Wicked about any Nation or Society that Forces Suffering Mentally ill or any other type of Suffering person to
“live” in Misery Against Their Will at All costs to Suffer even More, even More
More and More people are
Speaking Out Against The Evils and Injustice of Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism. They understand that
Forced Living Extremism is a hideous human Rights violation, Crime Against Humanity, Abuse , Torture and Exploitation of Suffering people , Slavery, bondage
Many have also compared Pro-Life
Suicide Prevention Extremism to the Evils of Nazism & Communism
The Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals”
Take it to an Unhealthy Sick Obsessive
Extreme , they Never Know when to Quit
And Give it a Rest
How are they going to Improve Actual Quality of Life for Suffering people ?
Get at the Root Causes of People’s Misery, Loneliness and other Unbearable Problems , are they going to pay Suffering people’s massive
Credit Card Debt , Rent, Mortgage,
Other Expenses ?
What are they doing to make All of Society More Humane and Compassionate
Countless Human Beings feel as if they are on pins and needles, walking on Eggshells , living in FEAR of the Future,
FEAR , TERROR and DREAD of the Future , unable to enjoy life , because we are Told that No Matter how Unbearable Life Becomes we just have to be good slaves and Linger and live for Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades till the bitter End, no matter how intolerable or Unbearable our Lives become. When What we Want and Deserve is the Legal Right to a
Legal and Available ,
Completely Free of Charge , 100 percent Effective
Foolproof, Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death
No Mess, No BS
No More Botched or Failed Attempts
Countless people are Afraid
VERY Afraid of the Future
Afraid of things going wrong in Life
Because the sad Ugly Truth is Things Always
Find a way to go Wrong, given Enough time
Things will always go wrong
People with Mental illness are Not
Stupid or Incompetent , each case is
Different, even though they have a
Mental illness they are often Fully
Competent to Make Life Decisions and
Decisions for a
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity
They understand that they are Suffering Unbearably and are Fully aware of their Sufferings and that
Very Often things Never “Get Better” only
Worse and Worse
Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system”
And Medical Profession in general continues to
Make Impossible Unreasonable Demands upon
Suffering people
Report comment
A good Bible Verse that
Describes the EVIL and Wickedness of
Pro-Life BS “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism that
Denies Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people the
Right to a Legal and Available
Completely Free of Charge
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
That Bible verse is
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. “(Isaiah 5:20)
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See Also
https://cchrflorida.org/floridas-baker-act-is-a-danger-to-all-2/
Another good article about the
Evils of “Suicide Prevention”
and Forced Living Extremism
Pro-Life BS
Many people gave comments in response to the article
Many people have said that Florida is a Very Fascist state
Report comment
See Also
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/sneddon-why-the-mentally-ill-should-have-access-to-medically-assisted-dying
& Also
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/wilson-mentally-ill-people-should-be-allowed-assisted-death
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About the Evils and Wickedness, Injustice, Cruelty of
Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS
How helpful is Psychotherapy and other forms of Talk Therapy really ? When patients have to censor themselves and practice self-censorship for FEAR of
“Hospitalization” when People in Therapy cannot be 100 percent honest
While Myself and others are Against Suicide Prevention and Forced Living Extremism , we realize that Psych Units and Mental Hospitals in America and Worldwide Need to be Far More Humane,
Sanitary and Safe for All Patients
Less Hellish and Nightmarish
We in the Growing Right To Die
Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement
Doctor Assisted Death Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and Other Suffering people are NOT saying that when
Life Gets Difficult people just give up and End Their Lives , Not at All
But All Suffering Adults Must have the Legal Right to say when
Enough is Enough to Unbearable Sufferings, to say when
Enough is Enough and have the Peace that ONLY Death & Heaven can Bring
The Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Fanatics & Zealots Refuse to Compromise on a Waiting Period
The Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and “professionals” Never Know when to Quit and Give it a Rest and Let it Go
If Pro-Life Suicide Prevention people and so-called “professionals” Truly want to be Effective in Preventing Suicide and Saving Lives they Need to Make All of Society
In America and Worldwide More Humane and Less Hellish
This Includes our Neighborhoods ,
Communities , but Also
Schools, the Public Schools, workplaces
Elementary, Junior High, High Schools
Jails & Prisons
I’ve Known people who have been to
Jails and Prisons , some are innocent, others make mistakes and aren’t Monsters or hardened criminals
The thing is Countless Suffering
Mentally ill and other Suffering people who are in their 20’s , 30’s, 40’s , & early 50’s are unable to Enjoy Life and Live in Fear of the Future , some are Deeply Devoutly Christian, Devoutly Religious, and Devoutly Religious of other Religions
They wonder, they wonder how much longer their current Earthly Lives and Misery will Continue, how many More years or decades will their lives continue
How Much Longer will their Earthly Lives Continue, they want to be with their Friends and Relatives who have passed away and are in Heaven
They desperately want to be Reunited with their Friends and Relatives in Heaven
Suffering Human Beings want the Freedom to Decide for themselves the time and manner of their Deaths
Doctor Assisted
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless, Completely Free of Charge
No Mess, No BS
No Fuss, No Muss
I will Return in a few days with More Arguments
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Plus about Psychotherapy , Talk Therapy
Many people with Mental illness have been in therapy for Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades, some since they were little children, it’s difficult for them after so long to think of things to talk about, New things to talk about and pretend that they care, often the therapists don’t care either, it’s just a job to them , the therapists often couldn’t care less
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Plus with Various forms of
Talk Therapy, Psychotherapy ,
Do people with Mental illness have to literally be in Therapy their whole entire lives until they die , because it’s bad enough that Mental illness is Chronic and Lifelong and people have to be Legally dependent upon Psychiatric Drugs their Whole Entire Lives
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I forgot to type
While I’m Passionately Against
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention
Forced Living Extremism
If Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” truly want to be More Effective in Saving Lives
They Must Proactively Make America and the World a Better More Humane Place
Work with Governments on all Levels,
Charitable Organizations and Society overall to Make America and the World a More Humane Place , kind of like what
Garfield the cat describes in this old
Garfield strip
https://www.gocomics.com/garfield/1979/03/18
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Another Must Read article about the
Horrors of Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” which includes
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” BS
Countless people have condemned
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention Forced Living Extremism as Slavery , bondage ,
State Sponsored Terrorism against Suffering people
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/intake
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More Disturbing True Stories
https://www.nydailynews.com/2022/05/15/model-seeking-anti-anxiety-meds-wrongly-thrown-in-queens-psych-ward-lawsuit/
&
https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/i-fainted-and-the-hospital-threw-me-in-a-psych-ward/
All of this is Related to
Suicide Prevention BS
Pro-Life Extremism
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Has anyone seen this
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/health/psychiatric-restraint-forced-medication.html
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Also has anyone seen this
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Kill-yourself-Senate-Democrat-s-tweet-targets-13475043.php
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Zealots and so-called “professionals”
Anti-Choice people opposed to the
Growing Voluntary Right To Die
Movement make us all Sick
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It’s important to repeat what many have said
That wanting to Die is
NOT a Mental illness
Also see this article about the
Growing Voluntary Right To Die
Death with Dignity Movement
Because Countless Suffering people are unable to have a Life with Dignity or Happiness
Click here https://progressive.org/latest/denying-patients-assisted-suicide-civil-right-wilder-220623/ to read the article about the Right To Die for any and All Suffering people
We all Need to Peacefully Lobby,
Petition and Take Out Lawsuits in America and Worldwide for the
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity
Get the Unjust, Cruel, Inhumane, Asinine, Outdated, “laws” Against Suicide Repealed in America and Worldwide
Thus Allowing for Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill and all other Suffering people to have the Option of a
Legal and Available, Completely Free of Charge , Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless
We Need to Get A-List Hollywood Celebrities on our Side
Legality doesn’t Equal Morality
Where is the “logic” in laws Against Suicide made by Heartless Ignorant Selfish Privileged people who Never Knew Suffering
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See this article
https://fee.org/articles/the-us-needs-a-freedom-revival/ About how
America Needs REAL Freedom , Genuine Freedom , Libertarian Freedom
Where Adults can do what they want with their own lives and bodies
This article Supports the Growing
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity Movement for any and All Suffering people who Request to Die
Including for people with Unbearable Mental illness
The United States has sadly always been a very Anti-Freedom nation in many ways
Very Repressive and Oppressive in many ways
The American people Desire and Deserve REAL Freedom , Libertarian Freedom
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On Fox News and Elsewhere
In 2025 , people call the United States of America
“The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave” yet NOTHING is “Free” or “Brave”
Nothing is remotely Free or Brave about
America or any other Nation that doesn’t allow Adults to do what they want with their own lives and bodies
Hideous Egregious Injustice such as
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention BS
Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacy, Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
Heartless, Soulless Pro-Life
Anal Retentive “Preserve and Prolong” Life at all Costs , which is Basically
Worshipping Life and Worshipping Human Beings, objectification of Human Beings and Human Life ,
The sin of Idolatry
America and the World desperately Needs REAL Freedom ,
Genuine Libertarian Freedom for Adults as described in the above article from
fee.org
Sadly America has Always had a
dark side , and has always been
VERY Anti-Freedom in many ways
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We can All Understand why many Americans have No Love or Respect for America , how can they when
Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and bodies ? Countless Americans work hard, work very hard to survive and make ends meet , pay high taxes and they don’t even have the Freedom as Adults to do what they want with their own lives and bodies
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Make No Mistake, many Americans can’t stand America
They are Not Anti-Government or
Against Law Enforcement ,
Recognizing that the Government and Law Enforcement do indeed do some good things. However , because the “freedom” in America doesn’t Allow Adults to do what they want with THEIR Own Lives and THEIR Own Bodies , many of the
“laws” in America sadly being
VERY Extreme in Nature and Discriminatory , Oppressive,
Cruel, Inhumane, Asinine, Outdated, Sadistic, Barbaric, hideous egregious injustices , because of this Many American Adults find it impossible , Impossible to be
Patriotic
American Adults Desire and Deserve REAL Freedom
Libertarian Freedom , the Specific Examples Discussed here Many Times
Americans want Reasonable Humane Laws
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Once Again, Many Countless American Adults are NOT
“Proud to be an American” because of the Unjust Inhumane Sadistic Barbaric Cruel Outdated
Assinine “Laws” that exist and are sadly Enforced , such
“Freedom” in America
Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and bodies , Not even that , Not even that , Truly sad
The American people Desire and Deserve REAL Freedom
Libertarian Freedom
Fox News does indeed have some good material, but it also has
BS Propaganda and Lies on it’s channel , talking about the
“freedom” and “freedoms” in America , the “greatness” of America , how America is a
“free country”
When Countless people have pointed out the sad Ugly Truth
That America is VERY
Anti-Freedom in Many Ways, sadly
VERY Repressive and Oppressive in Many Ways
Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and bodies ,
Granted many Nations in 2025 have less Freedom than America
But Many Nations also have
MORE Freedom than America
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The United States has sadly Always had a VERY dark side, even up until now in 2025 , with Many Skeletons in its Closet throughout it’s history
To be Fair and Objective All Nations in the World have had a dark side with Skeletons in their Closets
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Some people still say
“God Bless America” but why would
God Bless America ?
Seriously Why would God reward America for the VERY Severe
Lack of Freedom in America for Adults , where Adults cannot even do what they want with their own lives and bodies, such as
America’s insane Unjust Failed
“War on Drugs”
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” BS
Forced Living Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism that Forces Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people to be good little slaves and linger and suffer for
Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades till the bitter End, till the bitter End in Misery, and other hideous egregious injustices and obscene, profane “laws” that we Discussed in the comments here many times
Why would God Bless America or any other Nation that doesn’t even allow Adults to do what they want with their own lives and bodies
Why would God Bless America for Creating and Exacerbating the
Hideous Sufferings that
Countless Adults have in America
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Around 2010
In New York City , an
“Ask Marilyn” column by Marilyn vos Savant in Parade Magazine
Had the following Question by
Theresa G, from Tuscon , Arizona
Which asked
“Which do you think would have a more positive effect on the world: a cure for cancer or for mental illness?”
Marilyn vos Savant replied
” Readers may be taken aback to learn that the human suffering and cost of mental illness outweigh even the misery of cancer. According to the World Health Organization, mental and behavioral disorders are present in a varying 10% of the adult population at any point in time.
Mental and neurological disorders account for 13% of total worldwide disability. In addition to the expense for health and social services , the loss to society- including the impact on families, crime and unemployment- is incalculable.”
Marilyn vos Savant added in Bold Type
“Just how great is the burden of
mental illness? A study by the World Health Organization provides numbers that suggest a surprising magnitude.”
All the More Reason why
The Right To Die ,
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity, Quick, Peaceful and Painless
Completely Free of Charge Must be Granted to Adults with Unbearable Mental illness who Request it
No one should ever be denied their Request
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Literally Every Single day online
365 days a year , every single day,
every single day
More and More articles online appear about Suicide Prevention,
Suicide Prevention, Suicide Prevention,
Suicide Prevention, Suicide Prevention
Suicide Prevention, Suicide Prevention
Suicide Prevention , Suicide Prevention
It’s so Sick , this
Pathological Obsession ,
Abnormal Fixation with
“Suicide Prevention” and saving lives at all costs crap, the Pro-Life
“Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” Never Know when to Quit
They Never Stop ,
They Never Know when to Quit
Give it a Rest and Let it Go
It’s Very Disturbing ,
What about Respecting the Rights and Wishes of Suffering people
Overpopulation is REAL
It is NOT a “Myth”
Our planet cannot handle
8 Billion people and growing
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Progress is being made in our Movement
Several European Nations and other Nations are Changing their Laws to Allow
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who are Not Terminally ill who Request to Die.
We Must Continue to Peacefully Lobby, Petition and Take Out Lawsuits
For the Right To Die ,
Voluntary Death With Dignity for Suffering People who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
Progress is Being Made
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Lilla Bertalan and Everyone else
I think we can all agree that the power, domination, control, oppression, & Tyranny that the Medical Profession, Psychiatry &
Mental Health “system” holds over
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who want a Peaceful Exit
Is definitely a Crime Against Humanity and should be remembered as such
Much
Like Slavery, The Holocaust, are remembered as Crimes Against Humanity
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As we all know
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention BS and it’s Extremism is Very Toxic , Poisonous
Many people have said that if
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” are
Either unwilling and/or unable to
Help and Fix the various
Root Causes of people’s Misery and Sufferings then they have No Right to
Selfishly Force Suffering people to
“live” in Misery till the bitter End
And Deny them a Quick, Peaceful and Painless Exit
Governments, Society overall,
Charitable Organizations, The Clergy of Various Religions, and Philanthropists Need to Give Far More , FAR MORE
Money, Services and Stuff to Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people, be Far More Generous if they want to be Effective in Suicide Prevention and Saving Lives
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Sadly there is still much
Toxic Positivity in our culture.
Is anyone else also offended by the all the
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention BS
Propaganda on the website
themighty.com
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About the hideous nature of Life, and especially of old age and the severe health problems it often brings
The Legendary Hollywood actress
Bette Davis famously said
“Old age ain’t no place for sissies”
Myself and other people are concerned that with the rise of Artificial Intelligence and it Evolving to become more advanced all the time and with Surveillance in many areas of our Society, including technology that can read people’s minds and thoughts, I’ve read about it online. That all these Technologies are going to be Perverted in usage by Pro-Life
Suicide Prevention Dogmatic Extremists to Force Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people alive Against Their Will at all costs , and to Artificially Prolong Life for Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades, that Human Existence will become a
Hideous dystopian Nightmare
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Has anyone seen this article
https://news.sky.com/story/ive-been-granted-the-right-to-die-in-my-30s-it-may-have-saved-my-life-12055578
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About the Misery of Mental illness
https://www.thetoptens.com/health/worst-mental-illnesses/ Plus many people have Multiple Mental illnesses
I knew someone from High School who had Extremely Severe OCD , Secondary Severe Depression AND a
Personality Disorder , he was a great person, intelligent, friendly, kind, caring, funny , but he Suffered intensely , even with Medication at the Maximum dosage and talk therapy, his Debilitating illness and symptoms were only partially reduced, making it so he was barely functional , he was often unemployed, unable to get a girlfriend or even a date,
Chronically lonely, in poverty , he said that he wanted to be Normal, Completely Normal, No Extremely Severe OCD , Secondary Severe Depression AND Personality Disorder , he Wanted All
Three of those Conditions gone , gone Forever, 100 percent cured
Many people have said that without the
Legal Right To Die , to a
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity we have no Rights at All , We Have Nothing , Nothing
It’s Terrible how in America , in 2025
How in the United States Adults have
No Bodily Autonomy,
No Self-Ownership
No Self-Determination
No Bodily Sovereignty
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My classmate from High School that I mentioned above who had
Extremely Severe OCD, Secondary Severe Depression AND a Personality Disorder
I went to High School with him in the late
1990’s in New York City and it was
VERY upsetting , Very Upsetting for myself and other classmates to see him
Suffer. While he was a great person in many ways , he didn’t like being
Socially Awkward and often unable to Get a Girlfriend or even a date . He hated being Chronically lonely . Some classmates were Heartless and bullied him at times, but most classmates had Sympathy, Empathy and Compassion for him , and realized that despite his flaws and Mental illnesses that he was a Great guy . He just wanted to be Normal ,
Not Socially Awkward, Able to be Successful Socially and with the opposite Sex. He cried realizing he might Never be able to live a Normal Happy Healthy Life
See this article
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9813946/ about things that Many people consider worse than Death
Mental illness is listed in this article
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A person typed online this March 2025
About the Voluntary Right To Die for people with Unbearable Mental illness to a Pro-Life Extremist
“Who are you to make decisions for people in terrible pain. Leave people alone. If you don’t want assisted suicide don’t do it but go away. Nobody wants you around hurting people.”
Another person typed in support of the
Voluntary Right To Die for people with Unbearable Mental illness that
“Yes, it’s cruel and unusual punishment to force these people to suffer”
Mental illness is Incurable, often the Symptoms are Only Partially Reduced
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people don’t want to be good little slaves to lives of Unbearable Sufferings and Misery, have their asses be Government Property , they just to be left alone and have the option of a Legal and Available , Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death, Completely Free of Charge , No Mess, No BS , No Fuss, No Muss
Because of Pro-Life BS and
“Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism , Robin Williams and Countless other Suffering people are Forced into Lonely painful deaths in
Total Secrecy , Terrified of being caught and their deaths coming as sudden traumatic unexpected shocks to people who encounter the bodies of People who took their lives , like in the case of Robin Williams
Plus my Socially Awkward classmate from High School I mentioned before with
Extremely Severe OCD, Secondary Severe Depression AND a Personality Disorder, these disorders Robbed and Stole so Much from him, robbed and stole so much from his Life that Healthy people take for granted
The Government, Society overall, and Charitable Organizations are sadly Not doing Enough to Help people like him , they Need to Give More Assistance to Less Fortunate people like him
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About my Socially Awkward classmate from High School With Extremely Severe OCD , Secondary Severe Depression AND Personality Disorder , I forgot to type that while he is intelligent, he is Socially Awkward and he himself admitted he could be on the Autism Spectrum as well . Plus because of traumatic events in his life , his unhappy childhood, his poor upbringing , he is a devout Evangelical Christian, and I agree with him , that sadly the only way, the one and only way he can have a Happy , Normal, Successful Life, the type of Life he wants and Desires and Desperately Needs is when he ultimately passes away, goes to Heaven and God makes him completely “Normal” and gives him what he desires , makes it so he can be Successful and Happy , it would be Extremely Difficult, if Not impossible for him to be Successful or Happy in this Life , his traits are so deeply ingrained, Only God in his infinite divine power can make him
Normal , Happy , Successful
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It’s Very sad,
About my
About my Socially Awkward classmate from High School who I mentioned before, his Only Hope
His Only Hope is that when he ultimately passes away that
God makes him Completely
“Normal” Not on the Autism Spectrum, Not Socially Awkward , so he can be Happy and Successful
That when he ultimately passes away and goes to Heaven, for him it will be a Fresh Start and New Beginning in many ways
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Can we all understand the pain and misery of my Socially awkward classmate from High School, he desperately wants to be
“Normal” have a More Confident Better Charming Charismatic Personality, be Successful and Happy , Not Severely Dysfunctional
Sadly his Only hope is that when he ultimately dies , God will give him a Normal Functioning Brain, Mind and Personality in Heaven
His One and Only Hope for a Normal, Happy, Healthy Life is in Heaven, a
Normal Social Life in
Heaven.
It’s Very sad how in
America alone in 2025
There are people with So Much and Great Lives
While other people have so very little and Miserable Lives
It’s so unjust
The Public Schools in America definitely Need to Teach Social Skills, Life Skills, Emotional Interaction, People Skills and Street Smarts
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Plus many people have said that
OCD is a literal Demon of a Mental illness, even with the best treatments , intrusive painful thoughts and obsessions that Never go away , that Involuntarily Pop in their.
I’ve Known people with Severe Mental illness that say being Legally Dependent upon Psychiatric Drugs for an Entire Lifetime , running to Therapists and Psychiatrists for an Entire Lifetime , being a good little slave to the Mental Health “system” Psychiatry is no way to live
Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” is Heartless, Insensitive, Selfish and only cares about Money ,
We have all heard the Big Pharma Conspiracy Theory , it says that the Big Drug and Pharmaceutical Companies probably could Completely Cure most Mental and Physical illnesses if they wanted to, but that they Deliberately Refuse to Cure these illnesses because it would be Far Less Profitable , and Lucrative , so they keep people legally dependent upon Medications for their Entire Life ,
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” are often
Very Emotionally and Intellectually Immature and Insecure in their views. They Very often refuse to engage in Civil debate and discussion with us Reasonable Pro-choice Right To Die
Activists and Advocates, these
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people have very Rigid, Dogmatic, Black and White thinking, they refuse to allow for Exceptions and shades of Grey, nuance
They Refuse to Compromise
See this article http://www.narpa.org/reference/to_be_a_mental_patient About the Horrors of Mental illness
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See this article from The Onion
https://theonion.com/no-one-should-have-the-right-to-die-until-god-is-done-t-1819585002/
It’s Disturbing because Pro-Life BS
“Suicide Prevention” BS people and so-called “professionals” opposed to Choice actually have dogmatic black and white thinking, refuse to see shades of grey and allow for exceptions to be made
Also from The Onion
See this article
https://theonion.com/suicide-attempts-a-desperate-cry-for-death-1819565519/
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You do realize The Onion is satire?
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Steve McCrea , Of course I know
The Onion is satire , I’ve been reading it for over 25 years , but these articles still demonstrate the points I’m trying to make Against
Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS
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Another good article about the
Right To Die
https://ctmirror.org/2024/10/17/bodily-autonomy-includes-the-right-to-die-brit/
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Also about Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS
I know several friends with
Mental illness , and they can’t stand it
They Absolutely Can’t Stand it when they go to Their Psychiatist for Medication
And Every so Often the
Psychiatrist asks the
Notorious Infamous Intrusive Uncomfortable Question
“Do you have any thoughts of hurting yourself ?” Which makes Countless people Extremely Uncomfortable
Extremely Uncomfortable
That words cannot describe
Also I have a Friend from my old Neighborhood, I will call him
“Vincent” he told me how years ago
he went to an outpatient
Mental Health Clinic in Manhattan,
New York City , in the late 90’s to around 2003 , once a Month he would see
his Psychiatrist for Medication
In the Psychiatrist office, he would sit in a chair , while the Psychiatrist would sit at his desk , Vincent would sit in Front of the Psychiatrist at his desk and make eye contact and briefly chat with the Psychiatrist at the other side of the desk , and as they chatted with each other and the Psychiatrist would have a Large File Notebook and Always write down notes and Observations in his Notebook as they were chatting with each other, this made Vincent Extremely Uncomfortable , Extremely Uncomfortable
One time he mentioned to the Psychiatrist how this made him Extremely Uncomfortable, and the Psychiatrist replied that it’s just the policy of this Clinic that Notes be Written Down on Each Patient when they visit the Psychiatrist
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Another good article
https://people.com/woman-28-opts-for-euthanasia-rather-than-living-with-mental-illness-8627878
The Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS people and so-called “professionals” are basically like Snake Oil salesmen
With all the Propaganda, Lies, Hypocrisy, Double Standards and False Hope that they give to Suffering people
Never Forget that All this
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness is a Large part of the Reason why America and the World is sadly such a living Hellish Chaotic Uncertain Unpredictable Nightmare
All this Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism sadly backfires terribly on Society, tragically creating and exacerbating all sorts of Horrible Problems and also sadly causing Countless incidents on a daily basis in America and Worldwide.
Suicide Prevention and Suicide Prohibition Sadly Makes Everything Worse, Prohibition Never Works
Look at how Alcohol Prohibition
Backfired Terribly in America
Other Forms of Prohibition in
America also sadly backfire Terribly
Such as the “War on Drugs” that no one Supports, and Outlawing Sex Work, Prostitution for Consenting Adults
All Nations Need Laws , but some
“laws” are Far too Extreme
Far too Extreme
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I don’t understand why the
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” and policymakers ignore the Very Real
Sexual Desires and Sexual Needs of
Countless Adults in America
18 to 80 and older who are unable to get Sex Naturally .The Loneliness Crisis in America is Also Extremely Serious
Not just the Lack of Sex , but the Loneliness Crisis is Extremely Serious and painful for countless people
Medications alone cannot fix the countless problems that are making people miserable
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The American people desire and deserve
REAL FREEDOM , Libertarian Freedom for Adults
The Specific Examples Discussed here Many Times in these comments
Most people don’t have the time and/or money
To Travel, Visit or Move to Another Nation that has
The Freedoms Mentioned in these Comments
And they shouldn’t have to
They shouldn’t have to, America and All Nations in the World Need Real Freedom ,
Real Libertarian Freedom for Adults
Need
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It’s Annoying and Disturbing how the Media in America this Memorial Day
Monday May 26, 2025
Talks BS about the
so-called “freedom” and “freedoms”
In America yet Adults cannot even do What they want with their own lives and bodies
Not even that , Not even that
This Severe Lack of Freedom sadly creates and exacerbates the Suffering of Countless American Adults aged 18 to 80 and older
America Needs REAL Freedom
REAL Freedom
REAL Libertarian Freedom ,
The Specific Examples Explained here Many Times
Countless American Adults are Suffering Unbearably Every Single Day from the Lack of Genuine Freedom in America
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This Peanuts comic strip from March 19, 1990 show what it is like for Countless People in America and Worldwide, we can all identify with how Charlie Brown is Filled with Anxiety, FEAR of the Future , Worried about Literally Everything, Snoopy is also filled with Fear
Click on https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1990/03/19
We can Never Stop Peacefully working for the Legal Right To Die, Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death , Everywhere in America and Worldwide for Any and All Suffering People who Hate Life and Want a Peaceful Painless Death, Quick, Peaceful Painless and Foolproof,
No Mess, No BS, No Fuss, No Muss
We cannot Discriminate in Our Movement , The Growing Right To Die Movement
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Nothing Wrong with using a little bit of humor in our Arguments for the
Right To Die , Voluntary Death with Dignity for Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill, Incels, Homeless , Paraplegics, Quadriplegics and All other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
See Also this Garfield strip from
March 26, 2001
https://www.gocomics.com/garfield/2001/03/26 Garfield knows that Life Stinks Overall for Most people in America and Worldwide, that Life is NOT Beautiful
That Life is NOT a “Gift”
We Garfield fans know how in other Garfield strips, Garfield the cat openly said that Life is Ugly
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Another good article https://secularhumanism.org/2018/09/by-my-own-hand-suicide-can-be-a-wise-and-gentle-choice/
In Support of our Growing Movement
Most People agree that the
Right To Die, Voluntary Death with Dignity is a Personal Choice and an
Individual Right ,
The simple phrase
“Your Life, Your Choice”
“My Life, My Body, My Choice”
“Our Life, Our Choice”
That the Right To Die is a
Personal Choice and an
Individual Right, The Libertarian View
Valid Legitimate Logical and Rational Common Sense Reasonable View
Why is that so hard for Pro-Lifers to understand ? What’s so Difficult to Comprehend ?
Life and Human Existence is often Horribly Brutal, Unjust, Unfair, Cruel
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The website
scholarship.law.edu
has a
PDF article
“A Property-Based Argument in Support of Assisted Suicide”
by Roger F. Friedman published in 1995
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More Thoughts about Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS
In 2011 , I was chatting with a man in his 50’s in New York City , he had
Mental illness and was begging for Money and he told me about how he was in the Psych Unit of a Local Hospital a Few Days ago and how Before he was released, the Staff, Psychiatrists made him sign a BS document saying that he was Not a “danger to himself” so he can be released, a “danger to himself” the Unspeakable Horror , the Nanny State
Over Protective Mommy and Daddy
Sick Pathological Obsession with
“Suicide Prevention” by Force at all costs crap rears it’s ugly head again .
Then this one time in 2013 , I visited a Friend of mine who was in the Psych Unit of a Local Hospital in New York City
As I was waiting to see my friend, I couldn’t help but overhear a group of Psychiatrists reading a Note written by a different inpatient with Severe Mental illness
The Psychiatrists read the words of the note written by the inpatient which said
“I am Suffering Unbearably and have wanted to kill myself for many years…”
I couldn’t help but notice how Heartless Insensitive and Uncaring the Psychiatrists were as they read that letter , no Human Emotion or Feelings
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More about the Often Ugly Hideous
Stressful, Complicated, Brutal nature of life and human existence , on an
Internet Right To Die Group for People with Unbearable Mental illness and All other Suffering people who Support Choice , Compassion and our
Growing Movement for
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death , Quick, Peaceful, Painless, Completely Free of Charge Everywhere in America and Worldwide
Many of the Group Members have said that Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS , Forced Living Extremism is a curse from the pits of Hell
Not only that many members in the Group hope and pray that Reincarnation is Not True , they said that one life in this World of Suffering is more than Enough and they are Terrified of being Reincarnated into Another Human Life in this World.
The few Privileged people in America and Worldwide with decent lives , Who say
“Life is Beautiful”
Just Watch, Just Watch how they would change their mind and be singing a different tune if things suddenly went bad in their lives, such as a Natural Disaster, becoming Homeless, Disabled, unemployed ,Incarcerated, getting Cancer or some other hideous disease
Or Chronically lonely , single, unable to find and Get Love, Companionship, a Significant Other, Lose Friendships , etc.
Plus Those opposed to
The Voluntary
Right To Die on Religious grounds are the ones who are unjustly playing God , Forcing their Religious Beliefs upon others which is a blatant violation of
Separation of Church and State , in addition to blatantly violating the Religious Freedom and Rights of Suffering people who believe God is Love and understanding, and will Allow Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who have a Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death a place in Heaven , that God would Not want any human being to Suffer unbearably
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Another good article
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3185895/ In Support of the
Voluntary Right To Die for
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” should realize that Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death, Completely Free of Charge
Quick, Peaceful and Painless is the
Far Better More Humane Option for Suffering people and Society overall, for Everyone as Opposed to All this
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention BS
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
Who the Hell is anyone or anything to unjustly play God and tell Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people
That they have to “live” in Misery Against their will till the bitter End , and the Pro-Life people want to Squeeze Every last drop of Life , out of Suffering people, Truly Disgusting
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More good Arguments for the
Voluntary Right To Die for
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people
https://www.ethicalrights.com/euthanasia/a-refutation-of-arguments-against-euthanasia
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More about how Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” is
Nobody’s Friend
https://www.smh.com.au/national/a-woman-thought-she-had-a-stalker-authorities-sent-her-to-a-psych-ward-20250326-p5lmry.html
Pro-Life Suicide Prevention BS is Also Discussed in this article
In America alone Every Year,
Countless Far More people Die from Non-Suicide Causes of Death that are also Preventable
Such as From Heart Disease, Cancer
Smoking , Obesity, etc.
Why all this Abnormal Obsessive Fixation on Suicide as a cause of Death ?
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Lilla Bertalan and Everyone Else
See this article
https://www.hemlocksocietysandiego.org/death-a-friend-to-be-welcomed-not-an-enemy-to-be-defeated/
& https://kevinmd.com/2016/05/the-enemy-is-not-death-the-enemy-is-needless-suffering.html
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I’m still waiting for my other Superb comments to be added here
We All Need to Refute and Debunk the
Pro-Life BS and Suicide Prevention BS
More and More people are becoming
Anti-Life
We Must Never Stop Speaking the Truth because the Pro-Life
“Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” are Liars
We Need to Peacefully Lobby, Petition and Take out Lawsuits to change the Unjust, Cruel, Inhumane “laws” in America and in Many Other Nations of the World
Many of
The “laws” are too Extreme ,
too Extreme and don’t allow for
Exceptions to be made
We Need to Persuade people how Right and Correct we Are
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I had a dear friend who died in
Several years ago , he had
Mental illness, and was in his 60’s
I will call him “Paul” his Death was from
Natural Causes , Not Suicide
But Not because he wanted to live , but because Suicide is Extremely Difficult to Accomplish, Extremely Difficult to Successfully Complete
So he was Unjustly Forced by America to be a good little slave whose ass is
Government Property and linger to the bitter end, till the bitter end, till the bitter end against his will , he said sometimes that he wanted to die
So since he passed away , he appeared
To me several times in my dreams and told me that he wishes he had died by
Suicide to get to Heaven
And that he had actually asked
God to declare him to be an
“Honorary Suicide” because of his
Hatred of Earthly Life and the insidious Criminal nature of Psychiatry, and the
Mental Health “system”
So God granted his wish and declared Paul to be an Honorary Suicide
Paul then told me in these dreams that he had in Heaven met people with Unbearable Mental illness who Sucessfully Completed Suicide without Physically harming anyone else
And that those people with Unbearable Mental illness who Completed Suicide without Physically harming anyone else , that those people are Proud
VERY PROUD to have died by Suicide
That it was for them it was an
Act of Supreme Rebellion, Independence , Liberation, Freedom against the Unjust, Cruel, Inhumane, Asinine, Outdated, Sadistic, Barbaric
“laws” against Suicide and the Criminal
Insidious Mental Health “system” aka
Psychiatry
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism & Supremacism has No Place in the Modern Civilized World
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism , Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism is PURE EVIL and Wickedness and violates
Free Will which God gives Humans and Expects us to use
Now if Paul did die by
Suicide without Physically harming anyone else
We all Know that
Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” would be getting all Hysterical and Psychotic over it , acting as if it’s the literal End of the World
That they failed to
“Prevent the Suicide” of Paul , they would have a Big Huge Temper Tantrum, Hissy Fit over it and literally Cry about it Forever, Cry about it Forever
How they Failed to
“Prevent the Suicide” of Paul and Dwell on it Forever, Obsess about it Forever asking themselves
BS Questions like
“How could we have known Paul was a danger to himself, that he was Suicidal” and they would have Endless BS
Legal Issues over it and become even More Obsessive with their Sick Unhealthy Pathological Abnormal Fixation with
“Suicide Prevention” and other Pro-Life BS , Propaganda, Lies, Hypocrisy, Double Standards, False Hope given to Suffering people
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I forgot to type Paul told me in these
Dreams that there are Many other
Honorary Suicides like him in Heaven
People who have died by natural causes
Non-Suicide Causes of Death, but only
Because Suicide is
Extremely Difficult to Successfully Complete
And so these people wanted to Die
But they had to unjustly linger till the bitter End, when they died and went to Heaven
They Also Wish that they had Died by
Suicide without Physically harming anyone else , so they asked
God to declare them to be
Honorary Suicides
Paul told me in these dreams that
God himself is Against Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism and Supremacism and is in Full Support of the Voluntary Right To Die,
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity Movement for People with Unbearable Mental illness and All other types of Suffering people. Paul told me God is Opposed to Any type of Suffering person being Forced to “live” in Misery Against Their Will at All Costs to Suffer even More and Paul told me that God told him that
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Extremists
Misuse and Abuse certain Bible verses
Taking them out of Context and Twisting, Distorting , misinterpreting their meanings to
Support False Pro-Life
Suicide Prevention Extremist Views ,
Paul told me that God said that the Bible is Neutral Regarding Suicide
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I forgot to type that in these dreams
Paul also told me that Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who Killed Themselves without Physically hurting anyone else , that these Suicides when Entering Heaven , they were told by other People in Heaven …
Congratulations , they were told by people in Heaven things like
“Congratulations on Ending your Suffering , Suicide is Extremely Difficult to Successfully Complete”
Countless People in America and Worldwide are Trapped in Lives and Bodies of Unbearable Suffering with No End in Sight , No End in Sight
Often they are Suffering in Silence , and many Suffering people when they ultimately pass away , if it’s by Non-Suicide ,
Natural Causes , it’s ONLY because Suicide is
Extremely Difficult to Successfully Complete , for Many Reasons Suicide is Extremely Difficult to Successfully Complete , which is why the
Right To Die , Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and all other Suffering people Exists and is Gaining More Support Every Day
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dyingwithdignity.ca has an article
“MAID and mental illness: Three advocates speak out”
Personal Stories | October 4, 2024 | Dying With Dignity Canada
About the Right To Die for people with Unbearable Mental illness
Countless people in America and Worldwide are Suffering in Silence
Suffering in Silence
Wanting To Die yet are unable to
All Types of Suffering people in America and Worldwide are Suffering in Silence
Suffering in Silence
They want to Die yet are unable to
While it’s good that More and More
People are Speaking Out against
“Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism and in Support of
The Voluntary Right To Die
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity for
People with Unbearable Mental illness
They Explicitly Mention Support for People with Unbearable Mental illness to have the Right To Die as well as other Suffering people who want to Die and are Not Terminally ill
A Pro-Life BS , Suicide Prevention BS Argument is that
“Suicidal people don’t truly want to Die
They just want the Suffering to End”
No, They do indeed Truly Want to Die
I’ve Spoken to Some of those Suffering people personally , they Truly Want to Die
They understand that there is
Much Suffering in the World that Only
Death can End
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people want a
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity, because often they cannot even have a Life with Dignity and Happiness
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Many people have also said
That Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” BS
Forced Living Extremism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness, Supremacism, is definitely a Cult
Cults Feel they Must prevent people from leaving at all costs, The crab mentality
Pro-Life BS “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” give Nothing but Propaganda, Hypocrisy, Double Standards, Lies and False Hope to Suffering People
A friend told me how sometimes
Therapists , Psychiatrists and other
Mental Health “professionals” sometimes Abuse their Power, Blatantly Abuse their Power and Threaten to
Involuntarily “hospitalize” people , even when the Suffering People do Not
Remotely, Remotely meet the criteria
For “Hospitalization”
Never Forget that Most of the hideous Problems in America and Worldwide are caused and exacerbated by All this
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Life till the bitter End Insanity and Madness
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Another good article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/27/dignitas-mentally-ill-people-right-to-assisted-dying/
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Another Good article
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/whats-criminal-about-suicide-withholding-access-to-it/article21179551/
All over America and Worldwide people are Fed up and Disgusted with all this
“Suicide Prevention” Extremism,
Supremacism ,
Cold, Heartless Pro-Life BS
No Mercy or Compassion, Sympathy, Empathy for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who just want to be Left Alone, Not Bother anyone else and have a Quick, Peaceful and Painless
Completely Free of Charge Voluntary
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity be
Available Everywhere in the America and Worldwide
Enough Is Enough with all this
Failed Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” Crap
Enough is Enough
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Many Many people in the
Growing Right To Die ,
Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill, Terminally ill and All Other Suffering people in America and Worldwide who Hate Life and Hate Their Lives and just want to be Left Alone
Not Bother Anyone Else and be given a
Completely Free of Charge
Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death
Have said Never Again
Never Again should Any type of
Suffering Person be Forced to
“live” in Misery Against Their Will ,
Against Their Will at all costs to
Suffer Even More , Never Again
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Never Again , Never Ever Again
Never Again For Anyone
Yes to Choice and the Peace of
Mind Choice Brings , the Peace of Mind and Relief Choice Brings.
No to Needless Unwanted Suffering
Yes to Compassion , Sympathy and Empathy for Suffering People
We owe it to past Generations of Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who wanted the Option of a Completely Free of Charge, Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death, Guaranteed Death and were unjustly deprived of that Choice, that
God given Human Right
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Very Disturbing article about Relentless Bullying
https://nypost.com/2025/04/28/us-news/boy-11-kills-himself-after-teacher-calls-him-stupid-suit/
Many young people kill themselves because of Relentless Bullying and Harassment in School, Elementary to
High School
Bullying is Never OK , it is Not Harmless
Teasing or Joking around
Schools often talk about
Suicide Prevention yet the Schools Often do Nothing when Students are Bullied
Even when they are aware of the Bullying or when the Bullied students and parents Complain about it , Often the Schools do
Nothing to Stop the Bullying
No Student should ever be Bullied for any reason whatsoever
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It’s also upsetting when Public Elementary
Junior High and High Schools talk about
Suicide Prevention, yet also what causes many children and Teenagers to Kill Themselves is the
Endless Non-Stop Schoolwork that is thrown at them
Non-Stop Endless Work , Tests, Exams, Book Reports
Science Projects, Lab Reports, Term Papers , State Exams
Endless Hours of Homework , Impossibly Difficult Math
Mostly useless Garbage is taught that is Never used for any Job or Career , Never used in the Real World
Stuff that the students End up Forgetting
Education is Important, yet why Must Students be under
So Much Stress from Endless Schoolwork and
Homework, the things Mentioned
How are children and Teenagers supposed to enjoy their Childhood and Teen Years , when they are under so
Much Stress , Non-Stop Stress and Work
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Also about Pro-Life BS and
Suicide Prevention BS and how
God himself supports Choice, Compassion, Mercy and our
Growing Right To Die Movement
For Voluntary Death with Dignity
My own Mother when she was 46 in 1996
went into a coma for Six Weeks from a bad reaction to a Prescription Medication
My Family was unsure if she would survive and come out of the coma , she eventually came out of the coma and made a full recovery, however
A few months after she came out of the coma she told me and my family how she had a Near Death Experience and saw
God , God gave her a Choice, to pass away then at the age of 46 in 1996 and go to Heaven OR to come out of the coma and live out the rest of her Earthly Life and Then pass away and go Heaven
My Mother chose to come out of the coma , and live the rest of her Earthly Life and she passed away at age
63 in 2014 from Natural Causes
Non-Suicide
But this just Goes to Show that God wants us to Decide for Ourselves the time and manner of our deaths. My Mother was a Nice Catholic woman, and her Near Death Experience was legitimate, God gave her a choice.
However, Since my Mother came out of the coma, her Physical Health started to gradually deteriorate, and she had various other problems, my Mother said she made a bad decision, a terrible mistake by choosing to come out of the coma and live, that if she could go back to when she had that Near Death Experience at age 46 , she would definitely choose to pass away at age
46 and go to Heaven
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About the Suicide of Robin Williams
https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/11/04/robin-williams-widow-susan-williams-speaks-out-for-first-time-since-his-death-we-were-living-a-nightmare/
The widow of Robin Williams doesn’t blame him
“one bit” for taking his life , many other sources say
Robin Williams was a doomed man , that he had only
3 years left to live , if he didn’t take his own life
Robin Williams didn’t Take orders from anyone or anything
He did Not care what stupid Unjust Oppressive Tyrannical
Cruel Inhumane Sadistic Barbaric “laws” say Against Suicide , he lived and died on HIS Own Terms
He didn’t Physically harm anyone else
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and
so-called “professionals” if they were Forced to “live” in
Misery Against Their Will, Against Their Will,
At all costs to Suffer Even More, how Would
They like it , How would They like it ?
How Would They like it ?
They would hate it , so why do they insist on
Forcing Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people “live” in Misery Against Their Will till the bitter end
And Endure Unbearable, Intolerable BS and Suffering
Why do Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and
so-called “professionals” have such Dense Stubborn Skulls
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Many have pointed out that the United States
And countless other World Governments violate their own laws all the time , yet why in America and
Many other Nations are No Exceptions made in the
“laws” against Suicide for
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives
Countless people have said
Mental illness even with the best treatments are often much worse and caused far More Suffering than Physical illness
Countless Suffering People in America and Worldwide are Forced to be good little slaves, whose ass is Government property and linger in misery for
Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades upon Decades
Against Their Will at all costs to Suffer Even More till the bitter end
Many people still place Suicide Prevention on a
Pedestal and Worship it , they literally worship Life and Human Existence, that’s idolatry and sinful
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Plus After the Suicide of
Robin Williams many people have said that it was his destiny and fate to Die by Suicide , he didn’t Physically harm anyone else , but he should Not have had to brutally hang himself to End his Suffering
He deserved better
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This is An Honest, Frank article about Suffering and the hideous nature of Life , A Must Read , Sadly for Most people in America and Worldwide, Life is Ugly, Never Remotely “beautiful” and definitely NOT a “gift” but a Cruel, Unjust, Imposition Forced upon people without their consent
https://bigthink.com/thinking/anit-natalism-david-benatar-sam-harris-waking-up/
Plus in December 2023 a person on Fox News said that Life in
America and Worldwide is so messed up that reality looks like a James Patterson novel
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See Also, https://doctors.practo.com/the-hippocratic-oath-the-original-and-revised-version/
The Revised Version of the Hippocratic Oath is a Must Read
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” and Forced Living Extremism, Life till the bitter End Fanaticism has gone way too far for far too long , it’s gotten out of control
When Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering People are Granted the Right to a Legal and Available Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death
Quick, Peaceful and Painless , Completely Free of Charge, No Mess, No BS , No Fuss , No Muss
They would be Able to inform their Family,Friends, Loved Ones about their Decision to have a Legal
Voluntary Doctor Assisted Death, have a last meal and party with them , say goodbye.
This way it doesn’t come as a sudden traumatic unexpected shock as when People kill themselves
When Suicide is Outlawed by all this
Suicide Prevention Crap , Suicide Prohibition Crap
Pro- Life BS Propaganda and Nonsense
Psychiatry and the Mental Health “system” in America and much of the World in 2025 still has this
All consuming Irrational Paranoid Phobia and Fear of Suicide and of people committing Suicide, and Needs to Realize that Suicide Happens, Get Used to It
Get Over It , Get Used to It , Move on
Suicide is Extremely common, it Happens all the time Every Day in America and Worldwide, it Happens all the Time we hear about it all the time, it’s Nothing New , it has always happened in human history and always will no matter how much some People try to “Prevent” it
Suicide Happens, Get Over It, Get used to it , Move On
The World does Not End , Life Goes On
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Rest in Peace and Power
Adam Maier-Clayton
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/as-a-person-with-mental-illness-heres-why-i-support-medically-assisted-death/article29912835/
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Another Reality Check for
Pro-Lifers about the often hideous, Ugly, Unpredictable , Chaotic, Stressful, Hellish Nature of Life and Human Existence
https://blackastheace.medium.com/life-is-not-great-1e803641f470
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Also about the horrors of
Mental illness, living with
Mental illness and living in a dysfunctional family,
I’ve read stories about how in America certain parents of children , Teenagers and Adults with
Mental illness abuse the 911 system and call 911 on their children for
very trivial BS “reasons” that are
Not even remotely legally reasons to call 911 , then the Police and EMS arrive , the children, Teens, Adults are perfectly calm when the Police & EMS arrive, and still they are Taken Against Their Will to the Psych Unit over Nothing, over Nothing
Which is Extremely Traumatic , sometimes the Parents in these situations who Abuse and Misuse the 911 system themselves have Mental illness.
In these situations where the parents abuse and misuse the 911 system, probably they LIE to the 911 dispatchers about the situation and basically are making a False Report , which is a crime and illegal .
Extremely Traumatic Events like these Abuses and Misuses of the 911 system are even More Reasons why
Suffering Mentally ill and All Other Suffering People MUST have the
Right to a Voluntary Completely Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death with Dignity
Quick, Peaceful, Painless,
No Mess, No BS, No Fuss, No Muss
Many people have said that
Chronic Mental illness is The Worse Form of Suffering even with the best treatments
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Yesterday Monday May 19, 2025
historian Victor Davis Hanson was on
Fox News and there was
BS Pro-Life Propaganda being discussed
Overall I like Fox News and am
very impressed with the work of
Victor Davis Hanson , but I don’t agree with Fox News , Mr. Hanson on
Everything
Pro-Life Brainwashing, Indoctrination, Propaganda, Hypocrisy, Double Standards, Hypocrisy, Lies and False Hope is Very Disturbing
Very Disturbing
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About the Sinister EVIL Nature of
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention”
Forced Living Extremism, Supremacism, Fanaticism, Obsessiveness, Creepiness
Countless people have said that All of this
Suicide Prevention BS and
Life at all costs , Life till the bitter end
insanity and madness makes them feel even More driven to Suicide, to want to die even More
Many have also said that if
Voluntary Completely Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death were made
Legal and Available for Any and All Suffering People, Mentally ill and other Suffering people who Hate Life and Hate their Lives that Suffering people who want to have a Doctor Assisted Death could Donate their Organs to People who Want to Live, it’s a Win-Win Situation
Jokes on TV and Movies about Suicide and people committing Suicide are Common, yet in Real Life it is No Joke
And Not Funny , how the
Government, Unjust Laws , Medical and Mental Health “system” Psychiatry makes a Big Stink , Big Huge Stink of a
Federal Case over Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people wanting to Die and Escape lives of Unbearable, Intolerable Suffering
It becomes a Big Stink of a
Federal Case over Nothing .
Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people who want to Die endure
Relentless Harassment, Persecution, Oppression, from Governments, Unjust Laws, Medical and Mental Health systems , it’s so EVIL and Sinister, how in Most parts of the World even in 2025
Suffering people who want to Die are Harassed, Persecuted, Oppressed with Impunity by
Governments, Unjust Laws, the Medical and Mental Health Systems, Psychiatry
We would Never treat Suffering Animals the way Suffering Humans are Treated
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A person typed online early in 2025
Against Pro-Life Suicide Prevention BS
“A violent and traumatic suicide that someone may suffer represents the violence of a society that banned a more humane method.
We exist without our consent. Leaving with our consent is an inalienable human right, and ironically we can never feel fully alive if our bodily autonomy and agency is curtailed by others. All anti-suicide strategies and narratives are gaslighting.”
True, many people have condemned
Suicide Prevention, Forced Living Extremism and Supremacism
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A person typed online in 2025 in Support of the
Growing Right To Die Movement in response to a “Suicide Prevention”
Advocate that
“Why is it the responsibility of suffering people to suffer without end for your emotional benefit? You aren’t entitled to anyone else’s pain.
You state the suffering people must stay alive for you and the relatives that won’t help them survive or escape pain, but you don’t explain how or why you deserve that sacrifice.
You don’t really point to a path away from suicide while stating that suicidal people must sacrifice their autonomy for the emotional well-being of others.
For instance, why should a suicidal person in chronic pain who cannot get their healthcare team to believe their pain or their relatives to help with daily needs keep living their horrible torture of a life for you? What’s in it for them?
Help isn’t available. If you have no one to help you to bathe or dress and no way to stop physical pain, how can you live for the people not helping you like that?
Why can’t those who aren’t helping just deal with their emotional pain when the people they fail can’t survive anymore? Why isn’t your emotional health your responsibility rather than that of people suffering so badly they want to die?
You should probably try to consider that the people you want to endure suffering until their physical condition results in a painful, slow death are actually people whose emotional pain you shouldn’t dismiss unless you have a solution to it.
What is your non-death solution for people who cannot get physical pain controlled and do not have anyone to assist their daily needs? Explain how to tolerate the suffering. Why are people in chronic pain obligated to protect the feelings of people around them who are not doing anything to help?”
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On the Internet Right To Die Group a person typed in 2025
About the Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” claim
That people who tried to kill themselves by
Jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in
San Francisco that the few survivors have said
That the moment their hand left the handrail they
regretted their decision
“It infuriates me when pro-lifers use this to spread their prohibition / preventionist propaganda… the assumption being that EVERYONE must have regretted their decision to jump, just because their mind and body instinctively got scared and wanted to seek safety. It’s complete BS. And besides, how is fear of de@th the same thing as wanting to be alive? One doesn’t automatically follow on from the other. It’s an oversimplistic narrative that these fcukwits are creating, and it doesn’t help the millions of suffering people who are contemplating such things every single day around the world.”
Articles online document how Suffering people are Suing , taking out Lawsuits, Legal Action for their Right To Die , Quick, Peaceful and Painless.
More and More people are Speaking Out Against The Evils & Injustice of
“Suicide Prevention” Forced Living Extremism
About the Often Ugly Hideous Stressful Complicated Nature of Life and Human Existence we have all heard the expressions
“Same Sh-t, Different Day” &
“Another Day, Another Disaster”
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Very Disturbing Story from 2013 about
The Ireland Supreme Court and it’s Heartless Insensitive Attitude towards the
Right To Die
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/04/29/ireland-right-to-die/2121567/
How many members of the Ireland
“Supreme Court” were themselves
Paralyzed and in Terrible Pain at the time
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A person typed online today on an
Internet Right To Die Group for
Suffering Mentally ill and all other Suffering people :
“The world cannot be fixed. It can only be forsaken” …
– Ultimus Of Asgardia
#Antinatalism #MorbidExistence #FleshPrison #WarAgainstEntropy #Sisyphus #LifeSucks …”
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A person typed on an
Internet Right To Die Group today about the often Hideous Ugly Nature of Life and Human Existence
“Suffering is not “bad luck”. It’s not a design flaw. Suffering is natural. This game was quite literally designed to harm us!”
We Need More Brave People to
Speak Out Against
Suicide Prevention and Forced Living
Extremism and Supremacism
Some people typed in reply
“Yes nature is so Cruel. It is natural way is to make the living beings suffer.”
“All this money making is about reducing the suffering.”
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A person typed online in June 2025
On an Internet Right To Die Group for any and all Suffering people
“So frustrating to have no simple, guaranteed and pain free way out. Yet it’s so easy to push millions of crotch goblins out daily for absolutely no good reason.”
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We have all heard the expression
“No means No”
Why can’t Pro-Life
“Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” realize that
No means No , that if Suffering
Mentally ill, Terminally ill and other Suffering people are Suffering Unbearably and if they want to have a Voluntary Peaceful Death that it is their own Choice to Make , and to have their Rights and Wishes Respected
Countless People have made
VERY Serious Suicide Attempts that
Were NOT in any way
“Cries for Help or Attention” but a
Real Attempt to Cause Death , and they
Fail and become Severely Crippled,
Paralyzed with Lifelong permanent Injuries, Disfigured, other horrible Consequences of Failed Serious Suicide Attempts
That are NOT in any way
“Cries for Help or Attention” and they wish even More so that they had died , and they are still told
“Sorry you have to live”
All of these Countless Human Beings have to Endure this Intolerable, Unbearable Crap because of All this
Pro-Life BS & Suicide Prevention BS that causes and Exacerbates Hideous Problems for Countless Adults in America and Worldwide . These Hideous Problems would be Greatly Reduced, Greatly Reduced if America and Every Nation in the World had Voluntary, Free of Charge
Doctor Assisted Death ,
There could be a Waiting Period
But Psychiatry and the Mental Health
“System” , Medical Profession, Laws &
Government continues to Make Impossible Unreasonable Demands upon Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people. This “Life at all costs” Crap and
“Life till the bitter End” Insanity and Madness is Truly Disturbing, and Creepy
While Progress is indeed being made in Our Growing
Right To Die Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and other Suffering people as some European Nations and other Nations are starting to Allow Voluntary Death with Dignity for People with Unbearable Mental illness , in addition to other Suffering people who want a Peaceful Exit , we Still have Much Work to do
For our Noble & Righteous Cause , we All Need to Peacefully Lobby, Petition and Take Out Lawsuits for the
Voluntary Right To Die , Completely Free of Charge , Everywhere in America and Worldwide For Any and All Suffering people who Request To Die .
We Cannot Discriminate in Our Movement , who are we to Judge Another person’s pain
We Need to Refute and Debunk the Propaganda, Lies, False Hope , Hypocrisy and False Arguments of the
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” people and so-called “professionals” who are overly dogmatic, with rigid inflexible black and white thinking , who refuse to see shades of grey and nuance
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Many people have called
Suicide Prevention Phone Numbers
Including 988 to be Completely Useless
What Real Resources do they have to Help People with the Root Causes of their Suffering and Misery , Quick Immediate Resources and Emergency Assistance with Severe Problems and even if
The Suicide Prevention Hotlines did have Actual Resources to Give Real Help with the Root Cause of Sufferings
How are Suffering People supposed to Access them if they are Afraid to
Call because they know the
Suicide Prevention Hotline could trace the call and have the Police, EMS show up at a persons Home or Apartment and the person is taken to a Psych Unit for being a “Danger to Themselves”
The Unspeakable Horror ,
Horror Upon Horrors , Anything but that
More and More people are becoming
Anti-Life , Pro-Suicide and
Support Choice and The Growing
Right To Die Voluntary Death With Dignity Movement for Suffering Mentally ill and All Other Suffering people who Want a
Completely Free of Charge,
Quick, Peaceful and Painless Death
No Mess ,No BS, No Fuss, No Muss
Even in 2025 Abortion is still
Perfectly Legal in Most of America yet why All this Old Fashioned Taboo and Stigma Surrounding Suicide ?
Seriously Why ?
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The Ancient Greek playwright
Sophocles actually wisely stated
“Death is not the greatest of evils; it is worse to want to die, and not be able to.”
Actual Quote , look it up
Pro-Life “Suicide Prevention” BS and Forced Living Extremism , Fanaticism Supremacism, Obsessiveness is a Curse from the pits of Hell
It’s Torture, Torment and Abuse of
Suffering people, Modern Day
Slavery, bondage and State Sponsored Terrorism Against Suffering People , a hideous Human Rights, Civil Rights Violation
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See Also
https://endingwellpatientadvocacy.com/blog-1/f/airlines-policy-is-to-ignore-your-do-not-resuscitate-dnr?blogcategory=Blog
Pro-Life BS is Disgusting
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