In a Post-Trump Election World: What is Insanity?

Noel Hunter, Psy.D.
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Today I ask “What is insanity?”

Is insanity being a Black man in America fearing persecution from strangers and deducing that if the world is against him it must be the government? Is insanity being Muslim (or Mexican) and believing that those around you wish you gone or, worse, dead? Is insanity being poor and hopeless and believing the rich and powerful when they say they want to help you? Is insanity being poor and hopeless and refusing to believe the rich and powerful when they say they want to help you? Is insanity a woman wondering if she owes men her body whether they ask or not? Is insanity being married to the same gender and wondering every second if someone will come knocking at your door to tell you your marriage never counted? Is insanity believing that you can become the most powerful person on Earth without any qualifications? Is insanity believing that you cannot possibly lose? Is insanity rigidly adhering to your beliefs even when all the facts tell you otherwise?

What if you asked these questions a year ago? What about a year from now?

Our new NIMH leader would have us believe that we can answer these questions by using math; that the location of this thing called insanity lies in a precise area of the brain that can be eliminated or altered chemically. What might we calculate to locate this precise area and how would numbers help us get there? Would we use fancy statistics and complicated formulas to quantify a threshold of racism located in the hate part of the brain? Like x + y = Xenophobia? Or, instead perhaps, a threshold of fear that is not amenable to manipulation and displacement onto innocent others? Would we say murderous rage is located in the primitive brain and then allocate a numerical code to such rage that is directed at Muslims versus a White neighbor — with the latter equaling immediate extraction?

Trauma is not about events that are horrible. Most of us have experienced traumatic events in our lifetime. Trauma is about impact and relationships. The person who lives in a war-torn country yet has a close family and a community in which there is support is unlikely to be traumatized. The person who lives through war alone is. Trauma is not about particular events so much as it is about justice, kinship and action. A woman who is sexually assaulted may not become traumatized if she finds that others can hear her story, respond to her pain, and help her to feel safe in the world again. A woman who is ignored, disbelieved, and/or finds her abuser to be given accolades and power is.

Who is insane then? The woman who finds demons in every corner? Or the people who mock her and admire the man for his strength and charm? Is there a mathematical formula for that?

People who suffer need hope. We all have a need to believe that justice exists and that the authority figures in groups we identify with are good and helpful. How many of us respond to the horrors of the world by saying “It isn’t that bad” or “If so and so just did something” or “It’s their own fault”? How many say “If you’re good, honest, and kind to others everything will turn out ok”?

To consider the possibility that it is that bad, that it is that unfair, that there is nothing one can do is unbearable. It might lead to being shut down, giving up, even contemplating death. But what about when the bully wins?

Which of these responses might be indicative of insanity? Can we find the answer in the brain? Of which individual do we look? X + y = What’s the point?

And what happens when one feels helpless, oppressed, unheard, abandoned, and afraid? Do they become a bully too? Does the cycle of trauma repeat itself? Does the trauma spread like a virus infecting all who are vulnerable?

Insanity is often the result of chronic oppression, trauma, and a sense of injustice and hopelessness. Is it possible we are in the midst of a collective psychosis? Forgetting our past, ignoring reality, jumping to conclusions, seeing the world through extremes, fearing persecution from those who could care less about you and personalizing that which is not…these are all signs of “severe mental illness”.

So I ask again, what is insanity?

But, then, one may also see that madness so often can be a process of transformation. It can lead to a rebirth of new realms never before dreamed of. Is it possible that we have entered the cocoon stage and will emerge the butterfly our humanity has always promised to be? Might we have hope despite the dark clouds that form over us now? Or am I insane for even asking?

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Noel Hunter, Psy.D.
Noel Hunter is a clinical psychologist, specializing in a psychosocial approach to emotional distress. Her work focuses on the link between trauma and altered states, human rights, and alternative approaches to healing. She has published and presented papers on the link between trauma and various anomalous states, stigma and negative attitudes towards patients, and the need for recognition of states of extreme distress as meaningful responses to overwhelming life experiences. She is on the Board of Directors for both the Hearing Voices Network - USA and the International Society for Ethical Psychiatry and Psychology, and is a passionate advocate for alternatives to the current mainstream biomedical approach to human suffering. Follow her on Twitter or Facebook.

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147 COMMENTS

  1. Hope or insanity?
    Copy and pasted
    [Dede, 37, now hopes that he will resume a normal life after two more operations to graft undamaged skin onto his hands, feet and face.

    Speaking from an Indonesian hospital, he said: “What I really want first is to get better and find a job. But then, one day, who knows? I might meet a girl and get married.” ]
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1584915/Tree-man-who-grew-roots-hopes-to-marry-after-4lb-of-warts-removed.html

  2. Insanity occurs when one can’t accept their reality–and, in fact, fears it–and feels powerless to do anything about it. And, as far as I know, transformation occurs with the help and support of a higher power. Without that light, we are scrambling in the dark.

  3. Noel, Thank you for your questions and voice. During this time of oppression, pain and fear-mongering, you show courage. I do believe that communal hope and determination to work together for change in the face of uncertainty, hatred and fear is essential. “Sane or insane” are not words that make sense to me. Centering on the reality of love and justice as attainable, even incrementally, does make sense to me. If armed people are afraid of us, our lives are endangered, so I stay vigilant, yet not ready to retreat in silence or behind walls. I have found it hard to transcend my own internalized oppression and identity as less-than human, and yet in the presence of others like you, I am finding my way. I believe we can change ourselves and co-create a more just, loving and peaceful world. I expect to participate in the process, even while not expecting to experience the fullness of its impact. I do not go gentle towards my death. I often hurt others when I lose connection with the origins of my own. Yet I strive to stay open and active in releasing compassionate transformation in community. For Noel and those younger than I, please know that your shared courage will bring us closer co-creating a just, loving and sustainable world, not without shared pain.

  4. Hi Noel,
    In a sense we could say there is no true insanity, because anomalous responses that get labeled psychotic almost always make sense if we understand the individual’s experience in context. As you said, most people who go crazy have very good contextual, experiential reasons to be having extreme fears, delusions, to be withdrawn, and so on. So insanity is a logical response to specific experiences at specific times. Or perhaps we can say it would be insane to not go insane when faced with extreme stress.

    It is disturbing to realize that events and people in the world can be capricious, uncontrollable, cruel, senseless. I think this is a reason why many people believe in God and religion, as a way of softening this awareness. I read one writer (New York analyst Jeffrey Seinfeld) who described psychotic states as “the death of God (the good other)” and the experience of “darkness on the face of the deep.” Hope is crucial – and to sense good intent, gentleness, and love in another, similar to how a young child does with its mother in symbiosis, is what heals extreme states, in my experience.

    It is also bizarre to see researchers looking at the level of specific cells and neural networks to try to understand extreme experience. To me one might as well try to translate an ancient language by looking at the molecular composition of the stone table it is written on. As John Read said, it is darkly humorous to think we can now identify the part of one’s brain that makes one disagree with one’s psychiatrist? I am glad I still have that part and that it didn’t get lobotomized!

    Lastly, I would add that with the advent of the internet, it can become harder to sense how the “other” is emotionally, and easier to misinterpret their online postings. So, let us each try to hold on to uncertainty and openness, before judging others we communicate with online merely from what they say in certain forums.

    • “…to sense good intent, gentleness, and love in another, similar to how a young child does with its mother in symbiosis, is what heals extreme states, in my experience.”

      Very nice statement, Matt. I agree with what I see implicit in this–that chronic and sustained feelings of lack of love will lead to these kinds of issues in people cycling back and forth between despondence and rage, all from feelings of hopelessness. Whatever we call it, it is extremely uncomfortable to the point of causing suffering. I think the remedy seems obvious, but it is hard to detect love in the world right now, at least in the USA. Mostly, I sense panic and resentment at large–feelings of betrayal, lack of support, victimization, etc. Seems to be the norm right now.

      So, to paraphrase this article, I do think we’re in the midst of a collective “something” that is challenging just about everyone at present.

      • Please keep in mind (anyone reading this) that it is wrong to conclude that a person was neglected or abused in early childhood simply because they’ve shown up at a shrink’s doorstep. Many of us had decent childhoods but got fucked up by psychiatric abuse later in life. Psych abuse causes rage because it is rarely even recognized nor is the person believed.

        • I’m not talking about childhood, per se, Julie, I’m referring to general lack of compassion and peace in the world right now, and as it has been for a while. It’s hard to heal in such chaos and violence; that can become a vicious cycle of trauma and re-trauma. Although the one to find peace in chaos is certainly making good strides.

          I agree with you that psych abuse is a hidden demon in our society. Calling it out only leads to more stigma and blame on the client, and often persecution and aggressive marginalization. Lots of shaming and humiliating can go on here, if you stand up to the ‘wrong person.’

          I think that’s where it is wrong–and dangerous–to draw the premature conclusion that the client is paranoid, delusional, lying, or manipulative, which are very common stigmas projected upon psych clients–which, in turn, is extremely ironic, considering that our complaints are basically the same thing, in reverse. After all, who is getting paid in that scenario, and has a job to do? Many of us complain of gross incompetence among psychotherapists and psychiatrists, and I think there is plenty of hard core evidence of this.

          At least that is my conclusion toward most of the mh system staff and clinicians I have encountered along the way–extremely abusive, systemically, as a general rule, because they are all part of the same network of education and mis-perception of humanity, it’s a mental program that is false.

          I managed to peel myself out of there, but I did have to find a more loving community and environment that would support my healing and personal growth in a way that was actually helpful and effective, which I did.

          The mh world is a teeny tiny box, hardly anyone can fit into it and there is no air, it is suffocating. There are other communities out there with better values and healthier social dynamics than this–like, way.

          If you want another cause for–and example of–what I’m sure society would commonly refer to as ‘insanity,’ the mental health world, in totality, would be it, imo.

          • “Insanity is often the result of chronic oppression, trauma, and a sense of injustice and hopelessness.”

            Mental health system, in a nutshell.

            And the difference between mh system and other oppressive and traumatic social institutions is that this one is traumatizing and oppressing the people for whom it is contracted and being paid to provide support and healing services. So on top of all of the above, it is fraudulent, as well. I believe it is an irredeemable mess.

  5. Thanks, Noel. I agree that if a trauma is validated by the surrounding community the person is less likely to suffer from that trauma. Even yesterday I had a note in my inbox from some stranger telling me what a sinner I was because I identified as being opposed to psychiatry. So do I get the same hate mail if I am opposed to war and genocide?

    I am awaiting validation. I was abused in a hospital and by an abusive, controlling therapist, and still no recourse, no apology, nothing that sounds like love and affirmation. I’m still called a sinner or at least “negative,” which is hate speech in my opinion. What happened happened, nothing biased about the facts.

      • Yep, I am frequently called a “danger to society” just for telling the truth. I was just turned down for a blogging job because the people running the blog were afraid that if the truth came out, people would refuse “treatment.” It is my aim to steer people away from the System because it is abusive and ends up being permanent. I am not a danger to society. I am a danger to facilities because if people read my stuff, the facilities will lose all credibility.

        • Yeah i couldn’t believe the email, either. She was saying I should hear the other point of view. What was she really objecting to? The very existence of antipsychiatry! Hey, I don’t go to websites or groups I don’t happen to like or agree with and tell them they shouldn’t exist. Should Yankees fans not exist just because someone is a Sox fan? That was essentially what she was saying, that my existence and my experiences aren’t valid. I disregard such talk.

  6. If the premise of this piece involves the assumption that Trump’s ascendance involves ignorance vs. progress it is flawed from the start. I can’t really tell, maybe I’ll read this again more carefully. But I don’t what the term “Post-Trump” in the title is supposed to mean. Trump is neither our savior nor the bogeyman. If people who voted for Clinton saw her as an opponent of racism (or “otherism” in general) it is because they were unfamiliar with history and out of touch with the present. Liberal hypocrisy exists, it’s not something dreamed up by Rush Limbaugh. Those who suffer more from liberalism’s inherent contradictions simply voted for “enough of this shit!” So I don’t get what any of this has to do with “sanity.”

    Why do we even need a definition of “sanity”? It’s a subjective concept that can never really be precisely defined. It’s like arguing over the meaning of “God.” Could it be that people have more need for the concept of “insanity” — meaning something we really, REALLY don’t go for — to describe people and ideas they don’t like? After all, you never hear people saying things like, “Man, that guy is totally SANE,” do you?

    • I agree with you. In addition, since almost 50% of voters voted for Trump I don’t see any reason for MIA to unnecessarily alienate readers who may not share the point of view that Trump is Satan. He certainly was a flawed candidate but then so was Hillary. I think MIA should stay focused and not get mired in presidential politics.

      • I agree with Marie; 1000%. The suffering caused by these horrific toxins knows no political or religious creed, no racial or other group, no specific socioeconomic group. It is too pervasive for MIA to take a political or any other such like stance. Also, since it seems both major political parties are involved in one way or another, it would be futile and useless. Like, I said in an earlier post this evening, I am happily apolitical and for the most part, we should stick to the issues we all face and leave politics out of it, because it is most likely, all political parties have failed us in one way or another.

          • I respect what you say and you are correct in that there are political elements involved. There would be no way of saying there is no politics involved when bills as odious as the Murphy Bill are authored by representatives associated with a political party. However, there are several points to make. The suffering does go across party lines. It would be difficult in this political climate to determine which party could be our ally as representatives from both parties are at least heavily influenced by Big Pharma, the psychiatrists and such. Finally, although, I respect that you say being apolitical is really honoring the status quo, I would say for me and others, maybe not heavily invested in the anti-psychiatry stance, believe that being apolitical, means you go past the obvious almost binary aspect of the present political system and choose your own path. Perhaps, it is in the terminology that might be the issue. My changing viewpoint, to me, means that although I realize there are two political parties at play in the country, I do not define myself by either one and choose to live on my own terms not the terms of any platform or candidate. Still, I must reiterate the suffering from these toxins is so intense, awful, painful, and life-threatening and is totally disrespecting of what political party you might be and in addition to the fact that legislators of both parties are possibly and probably involved with Big Pharma, psychiatry, etc (although political to an extent in nature) we must not align ourselves to any political party and actually fight outside the party system. Additionally, it would be detrimental to fight for one party or another, when I said previously, this thing respects no party or anything. Thank you very much.

          • What are we supporting? Human rights. It’s essential that we change the laws that govern us. As I see it, politics has mostly to do with the law. To me this has nothing to do with the two-party system.

            Presidential races aren’t races and aren’t political, they’re just television drama designed to distract us from the real stuff around us, namely human rights issues and racism. Discrimination runs rampant. Why are we turning the other way?

            The election dramas aren’t races to see who is fastest, but who collects the most states’ support via voting. Or who can rig the election better and get away with it.

          • Rebel:

            I think we’re basically on the same page.

            It would be difficult in this political climate to determine which party could be our ally as representatives from both parties are at least heavily influenced by Big Pharma

            No major party is our ally; even Bernie is pretty clueless, though likely more amenable to reason than many. The Dems and Repugs are both bought & paid for by Pharma.

            I…believe that being apolitical, means you go past the obvious almost binary aspect of the present political system and choose your own path.

            Politics goes way beyond bourgeois capitalist politics, which is what so-called “elections” represent. By “political” I’m also talking about going beyond the liberal/conservative, good cop/bad cop paradigm.

      • Marie

        It is the capitalist/imperialist system that is flawed (the word “flawed” grossly understates the overall harm perpetrated by such a system). All the the candidates and/or political leaders who control or compete for power in that system are merely a reflection of those “flaws.”

        That being said, if people (especially human rights activists) are unable to see the qualitative leap that just took place in the direction of fascism in the U.S, then the collective “insanity” that this represents scares the shit out of me. It is beyond the time to WAKE UP and start marching to the barricades; we’ve got a lot of work to do! It is no time to sit back and be a “good German.”

        Richard

        • Glad to see you tackling this, Richard. Thing is, by most definitions, we’ve been living under fascism for some time, and the liberals who are suddenly shocked, SHOCKED that their variety of totalitarianism is being replaced with another, have contributed to this big time.

          Trump is not a fascist, he’s a very intelligent populist with a bunch of fascists breathing down his neck. The Guilianis, Boltens, etc. are the ones who need to be watched and confronted, probably more than Trump himself.

          On the other hand I think in several ways this is a positive development in terms of the prospects for revolutionary organizing — primarily because, while the outrages of capitalism are ever-present, if there’s a Democrat in the White House liberals will defend everything he/she does, as with Obama; only when they can blame a Republican will they try to do anything about it. The fact that many of these people want to make the issue “Clinton really won,” rather than recognizing their responsibility for allowing such a blood-soaked criminal to run in the first place shows that people have a lot to learn if they really want to fight this shit.

          This conversation isn’t supposed to be about party politics according to Noel, but I guess at least this thread is by now…

      • Marie, you are incorrect about the number of people who voted for Trump. Only about 55% of eligible voters went to the polls. What is 50% of that? That’s right. Only about 25% of eligible voters, give or take (votes are still being tallied but the numbers won’t change much), voted for Trump.

  7. Oldhead, in my experience, those that advertise their “perfect mental health” or “having their sh*t together” usually are so stuck up on themselves that I can’t stand being around them. It’s almost like delusions of grandeur, and many “mental health professionals” seem to be this way, sadly. I have always disliked boasting. I find it offensive. I’d rather hear someone say they aren’t perfect. Let’s see who throws the first stone.

  8. Insanity is probably defined as when a person’s feelings are so extreme and disabling that they can’t function as the culture they live within requires. And culture is defined as the way people do things because that’s the way people are doing things. Our culture is becoming more heterogeneous than we humans were designed for.

  9. The most sane thing I’ve done is escape from psychiatry after trying to escape for decades . My joy over this is boundless . Today as the atrocity of psychiatry rolls over the population as it closes loopholes of escape like a growing rolling snowball real sanctuary withdrawal resources for one isolated and in poverty are impossible to find. It is individual people , survivors the only ones who really understand the urgency who can maybe provide the sanctuary for even one person .It is psychiatry and drug manufacturers and their employee’s who embody through and through a most clear example of organized insanity . Yes I have hope the reign of terror will end . I don’t know when or how many casualties between now and then.
    There is no living without having the rug pulled out from under your feet perhaps a number of times in a lifetime . The trouble is the predators who seek to capture you during a vulnerable time before you can regain your feet and turn you into their personal ATM machine. As we age the nursing homes wait with their neuroleptics to capture us for a final time . The ultimate tragedy is the capture of our children at birth and shortly there after . Such is the nature of the totally insane Therapeutic State . RebelTheCartel
    I’m reminded some where on YouTube is what’s called A Secret Interview With John Lennon. A 14 year old skipping school one day knocked on John Lennon’s hotel room door. Lennon let him in and answered some questions the young person had . It was during a time when Lennon was promoting Peace while Nixon was trying to deport him from the country. To paraphrase Lennon said , “Nixon can’t admit he doesn’t want peace because it would make him more unpopular . So he can’t easily throw me out of the country. You cannot fight them with violence . They know violence and are prepared for it . What they don’t know are peace and humour . They can’t understand them.”

  10. Using those names at such a charged time inevitably invites such confusion, if that’s what it is.

    Maybe it would be interesting to consider in what ways concepts such as “sanity” and “madness” are actually useful before spending a lot of energy on refining the definitions.

  11. When you speak of very disturbing behaviors I assume you’re including mass shootings of innocents . When a guild forces poisons on people ,and calls them medicines when their admitted side effects cause suicidal and murderous feelings , when dosages are increased if someone complains who is it that is insane ? If you asked me what’s happening to many people I would say there is such a phenomena as a perfect storm of variables in countless variable combinations that include numerous toxic substances and mixtures and heavy metals that find their way into the body and brains of all living beings.Some excrete them better then others. Let me digress a moment to explain something. Most of us have heard of Ken Keyes book A Hundred Monkeys .Where if one monkey somewhere on earth begins to rinse some piece of food in the water at the river bank within a short period of time other monkeys even on the other side of the planet begin doing the same thing. We could continue this idea into the Hundred Monkeys of the Oligarchs . For example the Aluminum oligarch was told it would cost him money to safely dispose of the scrapings from the chimneys of his Aluminum smelting operation. He said I’m not paying and instead sold the deadly fluoride derived from the scrapings to be inserted into the drinking water supply all over the country . He says it will harden the bones but in fact it does so to the point of brittleness so when an elder person falls their hip bones can shatter like glass. Besides it also makes people complacent which is why Hitler put it into the water supply of countries he was planning to invade during World War II. Similarly with deadly mercury which is sold for dental amalgam for even our childrens teeth. So we have Oligarchs all over the place disposing of deadly waste products of the industries they own into our bodies and brains . Besides all the oppression and social injustice, poverty, and other trauma is it surprising that we see more severe reactions?
    In addition look at the poisons used in agriculture , and look at the purposeful poisons and negative enginering perpetrated by pharmaceutical cartels and pushed by psychiatric ,medical , and dental employee’s. The next step for the pharma psycho cartel as more and more poisons and oppression enter human lives is to eventually actually see changes in bodies and brains , spin the story and say they’ve finally found the holy golden goose biological indicator in the brain that raises their G-D forsaken guild to even more encompassing control of human beings . They must be stopped therefore ANTI-PSYCHIATRY .

  12. I am under the impression that this entire election season no matter your political belief system has been brought to you by the ever present more and more each day super drugged out society given to us by psychiatry, etc and Big Pharma.
    However, for those of us who are desperately trying free themselves from one of the worst enslavements of all human and what is even more insidious is that most people don’t know they are being enslaved;
    “It does seem to me no matter how you voted, if you voted at all, and no matter if your candidates won or lost; it may in the end, this election is to force each one of us to fully realize wherever our Heart is and what is truly important to each one of us. Perhaps, it is those who can not figure this out are the ones who may have truly lost something very important.” Of course, I know from experience, you must basically be off the drugs to realize this. Finally, I add I now consider myself happily apolitical. Thank you.

  13. Almost everything said about human rights and the law are correct. Discrimination is rampant and basically as we have just seen, our presidential election process, has just become a television drama to distract from the real issues. On that one, I would you are more than correct and it has been downgraded to a poor and sick comedy. Laws do need to be changed; but, changing laws will not necessarily change “public opinion.” We already have many laws in place, but the opinion against them are so in place that some almost knowingly act against them. We do have some laws against discrimination, yet people discriminate against each other. First, I will respectfully and kindly disagree on one point, politics is not about laws, but since the nature of government is the making of laws, it gets lumped together. Although, people may disagree with me, politics has become a way of people “work” together in almost any kind of “organization.” I am sure all know the term and have been subject to “office politics.” My becoming “apolitical” has absolutely nothing to do with my desire to have the system changed, especially, in regards to how the alleged field of “psychiatry” treats its alleged “patients” and it has nothing to do with my feelings against racism, bigotry, and all that which diminishes and hurts people rather than uplifts them to be who they are meant to be. Also, I do not ever wish anyone to follow the same path as I have in confronting all these issues. Perhaps, my becoming “apolitical” might be termed my personal defense against a system that, to me, is defective, and again showing to myself, that I am not defective. Changing laws is necessary, but it will take more than changing laws. We must work to change attitudes, also. I just look and see that both political parties are probably way deeply involved in the very thing we are working against. And to correct the situation we must no align with any political party, but work outside the political party system. Hopefully, in time, we will gain real allies and supporters from within the system. We must be willing to forget this path apart from any institution. In a way, politics are an institution. We may find soon we do have allies in various institutions. Like I said, there are ingrained attitudes from all kinds of people we fight against. This is probably one of the biggest and most pervasive issues of our time. My becoming “apolitical” has nothing to do with laws, government. To me, it means the freeing up of my mind. body, spirit, etc. so that I may live my life as to what it’s important to me. For me, personally, becoming “apolitical” is the spiritual freedom, that is similar to the physical freedom, I am working to achieve after the toxic drugs most recently and the alcohol drugs during my college days. Thus, there will be challenges for me. But, it is my own personal way to make my statement against such things and not limited to such as things as the present state of presidential elections. Also, I do hope at least in my relationships, it can be a bridge in this alleged conflict of two alleged belief systems, etc. I mean no harm. It is still my “moral crusade” and my personal history that compels to fight against the present system of “psychiatric imprisonment.” This is just my own personal way to do it. Thank you.

  14. Insanity is a scientific terminology used for understanding a given set of experiences or phenomena from a given scientific perspective in a given scientific framework. It is not the only possible terminology used for understanding the same given set of experiences or phenomena, as it exist other scientific perspectives and other scientific frameworks. And that is maybe the good thing with insanity, as it does not need to be used for understanding if other perspectives or even sciences make for a better case.

      • It basically has a history of being used as a scientific concept primarily in medicine and psychology (Galt, 1846; Gillett, 2007; Bergson, 1920).

        Bibliography:
        Bergson, H. (1920). Mind-Energy: Lectures and Essays. New York: Henry Holt and Company.
        Galt, J. M. (1846). The Treatment of Insanity. New York: Harper & Brothers, Publishers.
        Gillett, G. (2007). The paralogisms of psychosis. In M. C. Chung, K. W. M. Fulford and G. Graham (Ed.), Reconceiving Schizophrenia. (p. 151-167). New York: Oxford University Press, Inc.

          • Then I am not sure I understand what you mean, and I am sorry if I once again misunderstand you.

            My understanding of the word ‘term’ is that it is a word always related to something, and in this case the word insanity has a historical relation to psychology and medicine, making the word insanity a scientific term. As such a term it is not necessarily useful to other sciences, nor it is necessarily compatible with scientific terms in other sciences, despite that the field of study may be the same.

          • Sane, insane is a borrowing from Latin, that dates to the mid-14th century. Sane is health or healthy, insane is unhealthy or lack of health. While the ancients were referring to both physical and mental health, the 14th century re-appropriation applied strictly to health, or lack of health, of ‘mind’–something of an abstraction.

            More recently the term has been said to be a legal term referring to “danger to oneself and others”, and, therefore, “unscientific”, that is, non-medical, archaic, and redundant. I guess if it has ceased to apply to health and illness proper that such must be the case, but in courts of law they have no aversion to using this term, which once did refer to ‘health’, with abandon.

  15. On Twitter, someone was asking “what do we most grieve today?” the day after the election.

    While I lean more to the left than the right, I consider myself a political pragmatist, with an advanced degree in Finance and Economics. I prefer solutions that work. I decline to embrace dogma or rigid ideologies. As to my credentials, I have a Master’s in International Business (Finance and Economics). I have lived and worked in other countries. My brother is a colonel with a doctorate in military strategies, recently retired from the Department of State. I speak a second language.

    So I have a world view, but I perceive most Americans do not.

    To the question above, I responded (as best as one can in 164 characters) that I grieved the “death of civility,” driving the sheer lunacy behind this election cycle. Though I labor under no false delusions about the Democratic candidate, the current President-Elect flung more monkey feces through his tiny brain cage on social media and chummed the waters of his fanatical base with the worst transparent lies and petty insults than any candidate/celebrity in modern history…and he won.

    But this point is the worst part about his win.

    He won not DESPITE of his mean-spirited lies and hateful rhetoric, but because of it.

    But that is not a kind of madness or mass hysteria?

    If the author agrees to my interpretation of her premise, and my definition of the the word “psychotic,: then I believe she has an important and substantive message about the nation’s state of mental health reflected in the results of this election cycle.

    To direct hatred against a common enemy (e.g. Latinos and Muslims or immigrants in general) was his primary political strategy. It whipped almost half the voting population into a senseless lynch mob – the proverbial “maddening crowd.”

    For goodness sake, this current President-Elect claimed he could “shoot a stranger on Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters.” It was dangerous and delusional statement, but no one gasped at the mindset that led him to believe (or understand as it turns out) that such a statement borders on sadistic and not the sarcastic. In fact, tens of millions consider him not only sane, but a political genius.

    The evidence amassed over the last 18 months suggests he does represent a new brand of national insanity. If we define “psychotic” as “out of touch with reality,” then the author’s has made taken an interesting position, based on rational argument.

    He is psychotic, as I would define the term – delusional in a way that places others at heightened risk. He is delusional at least. There will be no wall. It is not possible to imprison, prosecute and deport 12-20 million undocumented people. And banning an entire religion from crossing our borders? Good luck with that. BTW, how much would it cost to make honor those core, campaign promises?

    Right. Other people’s money that he borrows but never returns.

    Other countries will pay for it.

    How can anyone defend statement like these, without defining him as out of touch with reality?

    It does speaks to a frightening level of societal “madness,” a culture in the death throes of losing it core values regarding human dignity, civil rights and reasonable compromise. I am a member of a demonized minority, and I have witnessed political hatred translated into policies that denigrate the most vulnerable, who paid their taxes and contributed to their communities.

    Did I say paying taxes? It’s more than our new president could claim.

    But he says that makes him smart.

    He says he’s a good businessman because he manipulated bankruptcy laws and cheated his contractors and deceived the IRS. A good businessman – and its a dying breed – produces something of economic value traded at a reasonable profit. As the economist Robert Reich noted, Trump could have invested the money his father gave him in the seventies in a standard index fund and his net worth would total around $20 billion today. So how smart is he now? How is he a good businessman?

    It does his sanity into question.

    If I interpreted her words correctly, the author rightfully suggests that the tenor that drove the results of this election threatens the already broken heart of a decent and democratic society.

    Another trend on Twitter this week, bearing in mind that I have sent six tweets in my life, was “thanking Obama in four words or less.”

    I could not stick to a four-words so I wrote that I ran eight miles out of sheer joy after the SCOTUS marriage equality decision. But I could only run those 8 miles because Obamacare saved my knees after two blown meniscus joints and two and one-half years without unemployment, disability or health insurance. I am proud of my athletic bent. During those years, I blew up to 245 pounds and could not walk my dog around the block without someone on call.

    Today, I weigh 180 pounds and I can run 8-10 miles every other day.

    I turned fifty in August. Health and civil rights? The freedom to marry?

    I never dared to dream of that.

    Then I glanced at the other responses to the same trend. I stopped after the first one.

    This person’s four-word thank you to Obama was “you are a c—t.”

    I stopped reading right there. It punched me in the gut. Its the perfectly worst example of what I mean about how social media, reality entertainment, and its fusion with the political process, has rendered the most vulgar and threatening statements acceptable, not matter who says them now. It’s a terrible example of how the falsely impersonal barrier on social media has driven our social and political discourse to a nadir, so that someone like Trump could exploit to the highest office in the land.

    In December, I ushered my father through a violent, delusional dementia-related demise.

    I began to consume all the research I could about brain health, after taking online courses in the interpretation of clinical trial data and bio-statics. As it turns out, the online vitriol that propelled Trump to the White House has so distorted how we interact with each other that the “death of civility,” as I coined the phrase, is highly associated with the release of stress hormones like cortisol and cholesterol that damage the hippo-campus, a major precursor to early onset dementia.

    In a nutshell, it literally rots the brain.

    When I mentioned this discovery on Facebook, someone pounced that I “better get off of Facebook for a while.” I wrote back that I refused to take her bait, but decided to take her advice. I said goodbye to Facebook, and I have not returned. I will do whatever it takes to heal from being poly-drugged by psychiatry three years ago for a condition I do not have and may not exist. But I cannot heal by engaging in that constant trash talk that now passes for social discourse and political debate.

    I have used the twitter account six times but I refuse to engage in the phantasm of hatred it engenders – and that now has become (and this is the most relevant point) – the primary medium through which we have dismantled a civil society – because it now determines how we communicate with each other, and how too many people chose to vote!

    At a minimum, and I am being polite, it has rendered us less intelligent, and diminished our impulse control, if not made us “insane” in a metaphorical sense. It is insane when a clown car drives the standards of political debate off the cliff of civility and substantive consideration. And that’s not a partisan statement. I know that Trump’s sixteen Republican rivals lost because they refused to stoop to conquer – but that’s how he won this election.

    He played to the lowest common denominator. And they showed up to vote for him. The polls were misaligned because too many of them would not admit to voting for him.

    To win in the future, other politicians must compete for the bottom.

    The cycles continues,. with another race to the bottom until it implodes.

    By manipulating the falsely impersonal barrier on social-media platforms that whipped a mean-spirited but disenfranchised fringe into a maddening lynch mob, hell-bent on overturning a “rigged system,” Trump did incite a mass hysteria.

    He did cry fire in a crowded theater. It is not acceptable to dispense hatred from a pulpit or political platform in the pursuit of power. It does represent a culture possessed by the symbolic demons of fear and hatred, projected against a common enemy, rooted in baseless stereotypes. The fastest way to accumulate power is to direct the worst of our natures and group think against a perceived common enemy, like those without a voice. Throughout history, it defines the very nature of tyranny.

    And all tyrants are “mad.”

    Trump represents a viral pathogen that with emerged on social media, but mutated into Twitter, ruinous to our cultural underpinnings and warping our capacity to distinguish between reality-show style combative entertainment and meaningful debate and political compromise – the heart and mind of a functional democracy. He is the ringmaster of social media, with Twitter as the primary weapon in his arsenal. Its insidious momentum propelled him straight to the White House.

    So is it psychotic? The short answer is yes, as I define the word. To endanger your brain and concede your conscience to a man who mocks the disabled, confesses to serial sexual predatory behaviors, and lies in the most transparent ways? To surrender your common sense to a man like that?

    It fits squarely within my definition of psychosis.

    I wish he were not real. I wish it never happened. I hope he understands the difference.

    But I know his campaign promises are delusional.

    • Here we go. What you just said about defining your political enemies as “psychotic” is wrong, wrong, wrong. That’s what they do to everyone whose thoughts and behavior doesn’t fit the prevailing standards of “sanity.”
      There are plenty of reasons for you to oppose Trump, etc. but applying psychiatric terminology to all this sheds no light and mystifies the situation, as always.

  16. I think these comments show why MIA should not get involved in this election. At least one person who commented believes the US took a step toward fascism and another argued that Trump won because he played to the lowest political denominator and they showed up to vote for him. I consider this a vicious slur since I know people who voted for Trump who are decent, educated, not racist, and not hysterical. They had good reasons for voting for a flawed candidate because they couldn’t tolerate the other flawed candidate. Remember almost half of voters supported Trump. Does MIA really want to alienate these millions of people. This divisive argument does not belong here. There’s no reason to lose support over an issue like this.

    • Marie

      Many well meaning, hardworking, highly educated Germans either supported, or remained silent, when the Nazis were gathering momentum and influence in Germany during the 1930’s.

      If this conversation makes you, or others, feel uncomfortable then I’m glad; we should all feel very uncomfortable at this time.

      Oldhead, as bad as Clinton and other Democratic leaders are and have been (and I do view them as criminals as well) none of them have advocated (at least publicly) suspending parts of the Constitution and large scale suspension of other basic human rights (yes, I am aware of the Murphy bill). To use the “fascist” word to describe current Democrats is a serious misuse of the term and has the effect of underplaying the severity of the current leap that just took place in the political landscape.

      Richard

      • I totally disagree. Fascism is the merger of business and government, we’ve been there for some time. I don’t really care about words ultimately, if you want to call democrats corporate totalitarians or something else instead fine; they are still criminals with blood on their hands.

        I see three groups emerging out of this: 1) the remains of the democrat/republican parties in a formal merger/alliance of the neolibs and neocons; 2) the Trump party; and 3) the Sanders/Stein party (for lack of a better definition for now).

        Actually a number of Democrats are eager to scrap the Second Amendment. Which parts of the Constitution are you referring to?

        On what evidence do you base your analysis that this was a racist vote rather than an economic one? And do you not agree that Democrats will never oppose any form of injustice if it is being perpetrated by a fellow Democrat?

        People have the power to deal with this stuff if they choose to exert it, if they don’t it doesn’t matter which flavor of oppression rules the hour.

  17. I also think MIA should consider who actually did support Trump. The media would have you believe his support was overwhelmingly uneducated, racist, working class male bigots. This is not true. One example: A MedPage Today survey taken shortly before the election showed 50% of its readers intended to vote for Trump. This newsletter is written mainly for physicians and other healthcare professionals. In 2008 and 2012 The readers said they would vote for Obama.

    • Tim Murphy didn’t say either way, and of course tried to reach out to Hillary, and Trump, to push his bill on them. Now of course he congratulated him, but jumped right to his bill of course. He’s Republican, but really too full of himself in many ways to make an effective polliticain. Guess, the mean to health fried tends to produce this. However, he’s still connected in some ways, and he get’s stuff through at times, he’s also just relentless.

      The APA, of course is already addressing Trump. Trying to get him on board.

      Allen Frances has spoken against Trump, and still is. Does anyone know, how relevant he is the mental health field. I know he panders to people’s concerns without, harming psychiatry, and mostly where it concerns him. I just don’t know how much the field agreed, or is in on what he’s doing.

      I’m wondering if anyone knows more on where people in the mental health field stand. I’m blocked by Tim Murphy, and Allen Frances on Twitter, but I can read some what say on Googel search, and even more if I sign off

        • Haha thanks… I think. It wasn’t much of a challenge. Actually the oppisite. I got blocked for telling Allen Frances, that he didn’t need to unnecessarily add his bias to another topic. Was trying to tone what I was saying, but blocked pretty quickly. Tim Murphy blocked me shortly after. I mostly just referenced him, and his bill as harmful.

          I was wondering if anyone knows where psychiatry stands now politically. Allen Frances, if he’s trying to get on the Democrtas good side, or just looking out for psychiatry, and to what degree. Tim Murphy is extremely tactless, and I think that’s the reason why his bill has been dragging for so long, but I don’t know for how long. Does anyone know where mental health figures, and politicians stand in relation to one another?

          • JEFFREY LIEBERMAN is a big pal of Tim Murphy’s, and also of a Kennedy cousin who believes he is being successfully treated for bipolar disorder. I’d wager that Lieberman fed Tim Murphy that absolutely untrue stuff about Holmes, Rodgers, and a few other mass killers being “untreated” mentally ill. Lieberman has testified before Congress on mental health. The Marshall Project, a worthy, human-rightsy publication co-created by former NYTimes editor Bill Keller, gave Lieberman a voice during the James Holmes / Batman/Aurora trial. Lieberman asserted that Holmes was not insane, and shortly thereafter, a few jurors were sent packing because they’d been exposed to media coverage. In reality, how many jurors were exposed but not caught? How many would have seen Lieberman’s unethical and absurd assessment of Holmes’s mental health (Not psychotic, just “troubled”), based on a scribbled “diary?” But Bill Keller was all for it, because Lieberman is a professor of psychiatry at an Ivy League university, I guess. Lieberman is the one to watch.

            His record on human rights is appalling. This blog post contains to infamous (or should be) letters he wrote to or about public figures, showing his craven tendencies. Both letters received replies that put him in his place.
            http://www.examiningmedicine.com/manofletters/

            Destroying Lieberman’s false credibility would help a lot. Not that Mr. Whitaker hasn’t done it ably; but a wider awareness is needed.

            In case you’re interested, Lieberman’s unseemly showing in the Holme’s case, among other problems with the trial and various doctors, is covered here:
            http://www.examiningmedicine.com/holmess-untouchable-drug-dealing-shrink/

  18. I respect and understand everyone’s opinion. In one manner, I do agree with Marie in that MIA SHOULD NOT get involved in this election or actually in any election, past, present or future. Perhaps, the world is truly insane. Perhaps, what we really have before us is someone is the elect to be, someone who shows their insane side for the whole world to see, rather than hiding it, as maybe some of the previous throughout history may possibly have. I don’t know. I, only two things. Like, I said earlier the suffering from psychiatric enslavement basically does not discriminate and affects us all. Second, this problem is way much bigger than any political or psychological speculation about the electorate or even those elected from local to national. Psychiatric Enslavement is a completely and totally non-partisan cause. We need to strike out on our own to change this awfulness without any party or partisanship or religion or whatever. Personally, I am confident freedom will prevail, but, only, if we speak up to STOP THE PSYCHIATRIC ENSLAVEMENT!!! Please, let us turn back to our joint cause of fighting PSYCHIATRIC ENSLAVEMENT. Thank you.

    • Psychiatric slavery (without quotation marks) describes the problem to a T. A person can be deprived of their liberty and confined to a psychiatric facility at the whim of an expert psycho-quack. Getting out of the institution is then a matter of going along with the program. If one resists, one remains imprisoned. Resistance of a sort boils down to claiming to be “sane” as discharge often depends upon admission of “sickness”. Outpatient treatment is equally dismal. Here’s, for example, a hangout for the “hopeless”. If you haven’t got any of that, you’re not brainwashed, and not there. What’s more, there are legal ways to compel people into outpatient treatment against their wishes. “Success”, interpersonal and substantial “success”, in some cases, would require a change of script, cast, and perspective, that is, liberation. Liberation from what? Psychiatric enslavement, of course.

  19. As the founder of this website, I think I can say we have deliberately tried to be both non-political on general societal issues, but, at the same time, we do have obvious engagement in political issues related to this world of psychiatry. For instance, we obviously have given a lot of airtime to people arguing against forced treatment, and I even wrote such a blog against forced treatment. That is a political blog. MIA has given a lot of of airtime to people arguing against the Murphy Bill too, and so forth.

    And here, Noel’s blog is asking a “mental health” related question: In this post-Trump world, which is an accurate description of what awaits us, given that he is now the president elect, how does this reflect on societal understandings of sanity? I find this to be a good question. Regardless of how people voted or why, Trump, in his behaviors and comments, did put forth values of a very particular sort, related to immigrants, the treatment of women, the value of journalism in a society, etc. He spoke to crowds that cheered for Hilary to be locked up, which he is still willing to consider, for crowds to cheer Trump that Bitch, and for crowds that loudly booed journalists. He spoke about not accepting the election if he were to lose, and said it was rigged . . . if he lost. These are new norms that have now been accepted as permissable in a presidential election. Some readers of MIA may find these behaviors in a president acceptable, and others that may not. But they are new.

    I should note too that these post-Trump norms go against the larger ethical context of MIA, which emphasizes embracing diversity, respect for all people regardless of their gender, sexual preference, race, etc. There is a political sense to this website that oppression of people, the traumatizing of people, and making people afraid are societal wrongs that need to be fought against. This site has also published articles about the relationship between sexual assault and subsequent diagnosis of psychiatric disorders. And in the struggle against forced treatment and loss of civil liberties, any presidential election that elects a president who does stir such sentiments, so much so that we do have NEO-NAZI groups celebrating his election, then you have to wonder how this would affect those who get labeled “insane” in society. We all know that history; psychiatric patients were the first to be targeted for forced sterilization in Nazi Germany, and the first to be killed in mass.

    So there is a new normal in our society, regarding behavior that is seen as acceptable in our politics. At first, when I read Noel’s post, before it was published, I wondered if we wanted to wade into this possible political quagmire. But after a moment, I thought that it is quite right that we provide a forum for someone trying to make sense of this new world, and also note that so often “insanity” is seen as being out of sync with prevailing norms.

    In short, we avoided any sort of politics related to the election before the vote. But now that we have Trump as a president-elect, I think it is fine-and even important–that MIA is willing to provide a forum for blogs such as Noel’s, wondering how to make sense of this new world, and what it will mean for those who have been diagnosed with psychiatric disorders, forced into treatment, etc.

    Finally, I think the comments here serve a purpose too–they have been restrained, and I think people are actually listening to each other, even if they are not agreeing with one another, and the listening part speaks well of this community.

    I hope this makes sense to our readers. We are in a new world, with a new set of norms that was seen as acceptable in a presidential election, and we should be willing for people to explore what that will mean to one’s state of mind, to treatment of diverse groups in our society, and also to what societal policies–around forced treatment etc–that may ensue..

    • I’m glad you don’t consider such debate off-message. I don’t want to get into arguing a whole lot of specifics, but I think the following points need to be made:

      — The notion of “pre-Trump” and “post-Trump” is flawed IMO. There are no new divisions or forms of oppression in our country which have not existed all along and been supported by both parties, though each has its own style. As many have mentioned, liberals and Democrats ignore these unless a Republican is in office.

      — There are clearly more than a few racists, sexists, homophobes, etc. who have issues with psychiatry and who might, on that basis, support MIA. Would that mean that MIA is “appealing to racism”?

      — So far the only people who have voted against Murphy have been right-wing Republicans, and the Orwellian “Mental Health Reform Act of 2016” — which some misguided “consumers” have supported — was introduced by Senate Democrats and was the centerpiece of Clinton’s now (hopefully) defunct “mental health” plan, and includes the prospect of drugging pre-schoolers. The so-called “left” (actually a misnomer when applied to the Democratic Party) was once an ally of the anti-psychiatry movement, but no more; they are for the most part more bought into it than anyone.

      Please don’t let MIA become a de facto appendage of the Democratic Party.

      I’ll close with a quote that was posted in the forums section:

      “Protests breaking out coast-to-coast. Great. I support them all. Also so fucking predictable. Now that a Republican has been elected it’s safe to get back out on the streets. Where were they when Hillary and Obama destroyed Libya? Or launched wars on 7 other countries?”

      – Jeffrey St. Clair

      • –The notion of “pre-Trump” and “post-Trump” is flawed IMO.

        IMO likewise —” Pre-Trump” — Police Officer has told a 50 year old woman asking to be driven to an emergency room 2 miles away “The only way I’ll take you to an emergency room is if you threaten my life.”She looks down at the ground and softly say’s ” I’ll kill you if you don’t take me to the emergency room .” The police tightly cuffs her shoves her into the back of his patrol car and scares her so bad she pee’s herself. The officer yells at her .” Do you know that I have to clean that up ?’ He takes her to the emergency room and reports to the staff ” This woman threatened my life . ” Everything went down hill from there cause from past history she was known as harmless but now with this officers gaslighting she was treated as a potential shooter and unfortunately for her the “Mental Health” authorities supervisor and case manager social worker and psychiatrist were from a county where within the previous 6 months a mass shooting had occurred.

        The pertinent question to ask is– What added measures if any in those counties where mass shootings have occurred , have the local mental health authorities put into effect . It’s as if the Murphy Law is already passed and in effect . But though they surprise knock on your door to threaten you into compliance they don’t yet force their way into your house and inject you . Hospitalized , your asked only 3 main questions “Do you feel suicidal” Do you feel like killing someone” ” Do you hear voices” Seven days of isolation camera’s and mics all around . Very Quantanamo like.
        When I found a qualified lawyer for my loved one , a former state’s attorney She told me that yes the outcomes in commitment hearings are pre- determined and yes they are kangaroo courts. She said if I want to have that coerced threat taken off the record it would be $5000 no payment plan. If I want to prosecute the police officer or police department it would cost $15,000 no payment plan .She said she needs to get paid for her work and that she had already done all the pro bono work she was going to do . Of course we are both on social security incomes with no savings and live month to month. The location – in Oregon, Douglas and Lane Counties fighting for jurisdiction over money I suppose. You think people need sanctuaries Duh ?

        The scapegoat thing for us is a long enduring institution transcending the coming and going of political puppets . Things could get worse anytime regardless and lives are ruined and lost daily . Even human resilience needs a little help from our friends.
        Somehow hope is not lost.
        But where are the doctors that lower doses and help wean off. Where are the sanctuaries of protection from “Mental Health” authorities.

        To paraphrase George Carlin the comedian . ” They call it the American Dream cause you gotta be asleep to believe it.” I say , We also probably have enough Pharma and psychiatrists etc. to put the entire living population of the planet to sleep during daytime hours and gain compliance to anything the authorities desire .

      • If you don’t know what Jeffrey St Clair meant about destroying Libya, here’s a hard-left writer’s chilling summary of Clinton’s role and just how misguided it was. For those who don’t know, Libya was once a country. It is now hell.
        https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/hillary-libya-nato-qaddafi-obama/

        You can cite Trump’s anti-Muslim-immigration remarks as Islamophobic, but people hold them up against Clinton’s murderous deeds, and their result.

    • We all know that history; psychiatric patients were the first to be targeted for forced sterilization in Nazi Germany, and the first to be killed in mass.

      Yes, most people at MIA are hopefully aware of this at this point. But the context is a stretch and again, its mention here seems based on the assumption that Trump represents fascism. And while Hitler did run on a sort of “Make Germany Great Again”- type program, there are serious differences as well. For example, Hitler didn’t seriously seek the Jewish vote, whereas Trump made a clear (however clueless in many regards) appeal for the Black vote. (The liberal response was to criticize him for using the word “ghetto.”)

      Moreover, it seems that if “euthanasia” of the “mentally infirm” is an issue today it is being promoted in the guise of “right-to-die” programs carried out by “progressives.” And remember the Nazis started as social democrats.

      • There were forced sterilizations right here in America, 20 to 40 thousand of them mostly in California in the early 1900’s . Eugenics courses were taught in the colleges including Harvard, Yale , and Princeton etc. Big time at Northwestern University and at least 40 others in the early 1900’s. The precise exact info is in Edwin Black’s book ” War Against The Weak”. Rockefeller & Carnegie financed with $2,000,000 the Institute of Eugenics in Germany which was an inspiration for Hitler who by the way admired American eugenic leaders and as we know eventually surpassed them making them envious of Hitler’s progress . Yes really.

    • In real life, he won. If he had “lost,” therefore, it would have been because it was rigged. He might have had a gut feeling, which I had, that the massive rallies supporting his candidacy, compared to the limp hand-clapping for Clinton’s, meant he’d win the election, polls notwithstanding. And as the Podesta emails revealed, there was some undue influence via the media’s coziness with Clinton that made his battle much harder. That’s not exactly rigging, but it’s dirty. That he won despite the way he was depicted day after day after day in major outlets is quite remarkable.

  20. First, I do honor and appreciate Robert Whitaker’s comments regarding both the history of what Trump said during the elective phase. I realize there may also be questions about Mrs Clinton’s behavior and history. I do think that it is admirable that almost for the most part, we are addressing this issue in a civilized manner. Important questions about our society, culture and government are being aired. I have been other sites, sponsored by honest, educated, intelligent people that became a real “free for all” and had to be shut down! This is “oldhead”. Thank you for saying that you and I are on the same page. However, you left out a fourth group, those like me, who have completely chosen to eschew the whole current political system and strike out on their own. We seek no party platform. We only seek to be who we are meant to be without false political interference and we are strongly against those who take away that absolute right, no matter who they and that does and can occur across the entire political spectrum. As for the term, “psychiatric enslavement”, if someone can think of a better term to describe the horrific treatment at the hands of these so called doctors, then I welcome it. For now, that is all I can think of. Yes, it is true that good well-meaning Germans helped Hitler into power. However, at that time in history, there were not as heavily drugged from birth to death as we are now as a nation. Please add that to the absolute denigration in the way they treat you by the psychiatrically based therapies and other things like clubhouses, vocational rehabilitation, etc and what have you got on your hands, but a individuals and thus a group of people who come to believe they are nothing, zero, a real “nobody going nowhere” like the old Beatles song. I think some of this has contributed to what happened in this election. As for me, I admit to being so drugged, the last election, I really remember was the election of 2000. I do not necessarily believe that are on the path to fascism. Nor do I believe we are a people who are immoral and deserve God’s punishment or misplaced mercy. As for fascism. yes, it is not limited to the right nor is it limited to the left. True fascists do not determine if they are left or right. And as my father told me; to keep our liberty, we must be eternally vigilant. I do continue to believe that we must not adhere to any political party to free ourselves from what I call, for lack of better terminology, “psychiatric enslavement.” Finally, please do not think the curtain, so to speak, is closed on this show. Let’s see. Today, over the news, I have heard that it seems although Trump may have gotten the electoral vote, Clinton may have won the popular vote and a petition is circulating on-line in regards to participants in the electoral college changing his or her vote. Second, the professor who predicted Trump would win the election, now predicts his impeachment. Third, Trump, does at the very least have a trial ahead in regards to Trump University that he is trying to get out of. No one can nor should be able to tell the future; yet, I do feel all is not settled quite yet in our nation. Thank you.

  21. Human services, psychiatry, social work, mental health professionals..these are professions dominated by liberals, no? Having worked in the field myself since the 90s, I witnessed this myself. The very people you would think would be mindful of giving people stigmatizing diagnoses, and jumping the gun by putting people on medications with nasty side effects, were the ones doing this. Questioning this type of behavior was met with hostility, because the diagnosing and medicating was seen as “helping”.

    It’s actually the hypocrasy of some liberals, and blindness to how similar they can be to the very people they say they despise, that actually drove many people to vote for Trump, including women, minorities and people who voted for Obama the last 2 elections, and felt let down and disappointed. Maybe people here are familiar with horseshoe theory? It’s a concept that says the extreme left and extreme right are actually closer to each other, like the ends of a horseshoe, rather than either is to the center. Makes sense to me, and I do see the similarities.

    Yeah, I don’t agree with forced psychiatric treatment and punishing people who are diagnosed with mental illnesses, and using them as scapegoats for sins of the masses, either. But throwing money down the rabbit hole into “mental health care”, which seems to make sense on the surface, isn’t really the answer either, is it? We all know where that goes. If it were me or a loved one, I’d go to a Shaman before going down that hellhole path, the one I hear and see many democrats pushing for.

    Anyways, I can see why people go Independent/ Libertarian. Switching over to Independent felt very freeing. Not 100% on board with all of the views of Libertarians in particular, but the “personal freedoms” / hands off stance seems quite appealing right about now. Let’s not forget, though, we live in the United States, which is *not* a fascist state. Our government, with our federal and state governments and 3 branches, is set up the way it is for a reason. Some people might not like how the election turned out (personally I was hoping one the 3rd parties would have done better to get into the debates for the 2020 election), but this is a democracy. Half the country has had enough of a democrat being the leader, and now we will have a republican this time around. Tolerance, a principle liberals say they stand for, and the mantra “love trumps hate” can be applied here, too. :/

    • I support most of what you say, with the caveat that “tolerance” of oppressive behavior when it occurs is not a principle I support; however, the Democrats brought this on themselves and shouldn’t be diverting blame for the results on racism or sexism, which they themselves are happy to exploit when needed (just check out Clinton’s racist primary campaign against Obama). When Trump does something fucked up — like if he gives Guiliani a State or Justice Dept. position — I’ll be on the barricades with everyone else if it comes to that. But I’m not about to take up the dumb-ass position that “Hillary really won” — everyone here knows that if she had squeaked by with a few electoral votes and no popular majority the Democrats would be ecstatic.

      • Totally, I hear you and have been following and agree with the majority of what you said in the thread. Just wanted to clarify, though, what I meant by tolerance. I didn’t mean having tolerance for oppressive behavior. What I had in mind when I said that, was things like liberals accusing conservatives of being intolerant, and then being intolerant ten fold in return. Ripping hats off of Trump supporters heads and physically attacking people, rioting, accusing Trump and his supporters of hating women and then in the next breath tearing the women in his family apart. Things like that. It goes both ways, and from what I have seen seeing and reading is that people are just so sick and tired of it.

        • I should probably note that during Melania’s RNC appearance someone I know well started passing around past photos of her modeling in lingerie or something. How does that fit in with supposed liberal respect for women’s independence, sexual freedom, etc.?

  22. You can not put ethical money into mental health care, because there is no such thing. Basically, any money goes into the presently dominated psychiatrists/BigPharma co-conspirators with their surrogate/sycophant therapists and other some such people getting a paycheck off the suffering of others, including innocent children. I think there has been a debate about fascism. Is there liberal fascism versus just conservative fascism. Psychiatry and their little friends are prime evidence of liberal fascism. I do not like either types of fascism, but what is the most frightening part of liberal fascism is that it hides under the respectable falsehood of “do-gooding.” Most of these people go home at night and false believe they are actually helping people. We have seen how right wing fascism spreads. Many times the right wing fascists do not even hide themselves. They almost admit their awfulness. The left-wing fascists hide under this falseness of do-gooderism and even convince the various established powers that be that they are doing something so wonderful for a hurting country. It gets worse because they believe so deeply, it becomes entrenched in them. This is part of the battle we face. Please get real; there is absolutely no such thing as mental health care. If you care for yourself and love yourself as you do your neighbor and if you choose something more spiritual include God; you are not loving yourself, etc; but practicing Hate towards all. Unfortunately, you have been so horribly brainwashed, you are not aware of it. Additionally, they make you so drugged, how can you. No wonder, they want to keep so drugged; because when you do wake up to the truth, you WAKE UP! Thank you.

    • Fascism has a pretty specific meaning — primarily the merger of business and government — and is a right-wing phenomenon. I think the word you might be looking for is totalitarianism, which can be promoted by the left or right (to the degree that these terms still have relevance).

      • Oldhead, if fascism is a merger between government and business, then the psychiatrist/mental health system. First, in most cases and at least, I know, in my state, the majority of mental health clinics are served by monies from not only private sources, but also the local counties and are operated as “businesses” under the auspices of the county and the regulatory agency of the state. Second, BigPharma is in “cahoots” with the FDA or how else would all these toxic drugs get on the market without appropriate knowledge of alleged uses or only an inkling of the side effects and it is only through the work of Robert Whitaker and a few others that the horrific and long term toxicity and withdrawal effects are coming to light. I am sure there is liberal toliteranism here, but, it seems to me, that according to your definition, there is also fascism, also. Please forgive my spelling. That seems to be the one thing that is not entirely returning like it used to be after the toxic drugs I took. Thank you.

        • Language is important but not the be all and end all, and I don’t think we should get overly obsessed here with terms like left/right/fascist/liberal/conservative, at least to the point where it obscures rather than augments what we’re trying to explore or communicate.

          What I think you’re getting at is that psychiatry is all about money and Big Pharma. True. It’s also about social programming and control. None of this is the exclusive domain of one party or the other, as both major parties primarily serve the interests of capitalism and corporate rule.

          • I think you are right in that we can be too obsessed with language. Yes, I think we really forget that words can hurt as much if not more than even the “sticks and stones.” This, too “depends” on the individual and is not a sign of weakness, if it does. We also forget that the left/right, etc distinction is really an illusion and might be considered to be both sides of the “same coin.” Of course, that might mean we would prefer “moderate” which is actually a bland way of approaching the world ” to not choose.” Of course, “to not choose” is to actually choose. So, what is the answer. To choose the left/right dichotomy is actually to choose what form of control over another or harmful forms of control over self. To be moderate is to not choose, thus to actually choose. Perhaps, and this is what scares all sides and probably propels and compels all sides, especially in regards to psychiatry, etc and how they “enslave” almost everybody. I think the most “adult” choice would be to choose a life without legalistic control; an unfettered life that allows one to be who they are meant to be, not someone they are not or never could be. A life without control is a life of true freedom. In true freedom, we would just treat each naturally “in love.” I am not saying we create a world with laws, rules, etc. But, if we taught our children that rules, etc must emanate from the inside whether than outside, I think we would really be a better world. But, it is too scary, There are way too many who lose their false positions in the world. What brought this home to me was a question from a “friend” asking me, “Well, did ‘we” win ?” about a local very highly contested election. There are definite times for the use of the pronoun, “we.” This is absolutely not one of them. If you have a “we versus them” mentally, yes, you could have one that not only divides when least needed, but also implies an “enemy.” As soon as you have an enemy, you can only be reminded of Pogo’s famous saying, “I have met the enemy and he is us.” Thus, if you have a false left/right dichotomy and a we/them philosophy. if you do any real thinking or feeling that the only enemy lies within, not out there somewhere. Thank you.

  23. Just a couple of notes. Oldhead, I was not commenting on whether Trump’s pre-elective behavior would justify a Nazi analogy. My point here, in this context of this discussion, was that Trump’s pre-elective behavior was welcomed and celebrated by White Supremacist groups; and that, in terms of how such groups treat civil liberties, we do have a historical reference. And so there is reason to think that if such sentiments are present in this election process, there can be reason to worry about the effect that this will have on civil liberties of those who have been hospitalized for a psychiatric reason, etc. And of course, with the expansion of outpatient commitment laws, the societal sentiment that it is okay to infringe on the civil liberties of people designated as “mentally ill” is already growing, and one can worry now about whether this election will further fuel this sentiment.

    As for Democratic/Republican arguments, that is not the context for this discussion. If Hilary had won, we would welcome blogs on how that might impact societal policies for those deemed “mentally ill,” and it is of course true that Democrats have supported expanded screening programs, the Murphy bill, etc, which are presented as “helping” people get treatment, and have been criticized here. So what we are interested in here is exploring societal behaviors/beliefs/policies that impact on this world of psychiatric systems in this country.

    • Mr Robert Whitaker, I agree with you 100%. Much excellent “stuff” has been aired and said in comments on this blog. However, sir, you are the almost ultimate voice of reason. I think it is not that MIA should stay out of politics, but, that MIA should remain ever vigilant towards what is going on in politics, society, the various institutions, education, churches, etc. The MIA, should not, in my opinion support or align itself with any particular elected official, candidate, or political whether local, state or national. That would, of course, include the current President, Obama or the President-elect, Trump. After Trump’s pre-election rhetoric, there is reason to be concerned. Yet, Clinton, in her rhetoric, was basically a response to Trump’s rhetoric. As for “mental illness” she was almost virtually silent, yet, I remember hearing her saying something about expanding programs and the old concept that receiving mental health care should be treated like receiving traditional physical health care. When, I heard that, a tiny alarm went off in me. Therefore, I do not think either party is truly on the side of good in this issue. And, that no matter who is in power, we need to remain forever vigilant. I am not sure how our cause actually does stand in public opinion. It seems, most magazines, say that cater to women spend time talking of how those little pills saved someone’s life from some type of depression, bipolar, or anxiety. I would like to tell them my story, but, I can not say they are ready for it. They would probably reject my story or letters to the editor as suspicious or something. Thus, although, I do say, we must remain eternally vigilant, speak up when necessary, and keep on each day with our work, I do have this inside feeling that there will be an appropriate time when we can really “act up” like the AIDS victims did and bring our cause to the forefront or maybe like the breast cancer survivors and their supporters who have days and all kinds of pink products, we will have a designated color that people will wear in support of us. But, I have no “crystal ball” I can not say when this dream will happen. But, I remain confident that if we keep doing what we are doing, authors like Mr Whitaker keep publishing, other organizations, websites, etc keep supporting us, giving air to our stories, and helping us in our fight, we will prevail, the truth will finally be believed, etc. But, it is not an easy task. It takes work and love. Thank you.

      • One caveat of the Hilary defeat is that now her mental health agenda is kaput. Whatever Donald Trumps comes up with, well, that’s a bridge we still have to cross. I don’t know that, beyond the usual keep guns out of the hands of, etc., he has made any cogent statements on the subject. He has, on the other hand, managed to insult all sorts of people who might have an interest in the system (i.e. intellectually challenged persons, gays, women, blacks, Latinos, etc.) I’d say that is ominous, but maybe Hilary’s plan to expand the mental health system is not a worry. Instead, the issue might be his plan to pull the rug out from under people in the public health system. Obama is said to have spent the more on social programs than LBJ did with his Great Society. Should money not be forthcoming to support these programs, many people will suffer. Poor people, that is, not rich people, rich people have got it covered.

        • This brings up the issue again of how to fight Murphy etc. from a right-wing perspective, seeing as Congress will be back in session Monday I think.

          My thought is that we should capitalize on the prevailing anti-Obamacare sentiment about “cutting waste” by (accurately) stressing to “conservatives” that psychiatry is a liberal, “big-government” operation, an unacceptable drain on taxpayer funds, and a far bigger and more provable “hoax” than they believe climate change to be. Also that psychiatry is liberals’ unconscious replacement for religion.

          • oldhead, I think you may have a definite angle to fighting the Murphy Bill. But, that is just one battle. If we could convince the “right” that psychiatry is a “hoax” and a “liberal big government operation” like they believe climate change is, then another bigger way into a bigger fight. The fact that psychiatry is liberal’s unconscious replacement for religion would definitely be a headway in to the Christian conservative wing of the Republican party. As for the “hoax” part. although, it is more so than climate change, we better work, because the quick changing nature of the weather and the increasingly hotter and hotter summers and years may change some minds. The fact that psychiatry is a replacement for religion for liberals might also help with the more right of the Christian segment. There are already websites circulating that bash psychiatry, calling it sinful and asking people to turn back now. What is interesting is that these websites not only use the Bible as reference, but they also quote Mr Whitaker, Thomas Szaz and other prominent authors in this area. I do not consider myself liberal or conservative and have actually been on one of the other sides at different times for different reasons. I will say as a someone raised in church-going family, and daughter of an Army chaplain, granddaughter of a minster; I think they know it is their replacement for genuine religion. And to mock Western religions, they bring things in from the Eastern religions into the culture, first using it in therapy and then it ends up everywhere including becoming its own magazine. This is not to “knock” or denigrate any Eastern religion or to make the false assertion that Western religions, i.e. Christianity are far superior. However, this is to make the assertion that the psychiatric sycophants find some idea from wherever in the world, then hitch onto it because of some false do-gooding, then spread it everywhere without considering the consequences. It is good to learn from other cultures and to even bring thoughts, ideas from other culture to your culture. Yet, it must be adapted to the culture and its consequences considered. We put more thought into whether we should add “Eastern” food to our culture, than to whether an idea is really adaptable. This has nothing to do with immigrants, etc. Thank you.

          • This is sort of a fine line we’re walking here. I don’t want to play into peoples’ ignorance or superstitious bigotry, but I do think we need to make clear that psychiatry is a form of such.

    • Bob W., thanks for your considered response. Before moving on though I want to revisit this logic:

      Trump’s pre-elective behavior was welcomed and celebrated by White Supremacist groups…in terms of how such groups treat civil liberties, we do have a historical reference. And so there is reason to think that if such sentiments are present in this election process, there can be reason to worry about the effect that this will have on civil liberties of those who have been hospitalized for a psychiatric reasons.

      OK, so it’s undeniable that overt racists supported Trump; but the KKK at al. have no actual power, nor are they about to, and the Trump campaign has vociferously rejected such support. It’s the more insidious institutional racists such as the Clintons — who have been responsible for endless racist ACTIONS which have landed a substantial portion of the Black population in prison — that represent a greater danger. Again, there are racists, etc. who support MIA, does that mean MIA is about to be sucked into their camp?

      To be sure, neo-fascist trends run through both major parties and those who promulgate such need to be confronted and beaten back at every turn. Fascism is staring us in the face all the time, and is reflected in the Murphy bills, both of which must remain our immediate task to defeat. And we must continue to “lobby” and educate anyone and everyone in either party who will listen. If recent events are an indication, there may be a renewed and growing sense of general outrage and activism, however unfocused, which could possibly continue after people’s initial election shock wears off. We need to take full advantage of this. But it’s important to realize that Democrats and liberals need to be confronted about their knee-jerk support of psychiatric oppression just as vigorously as do those they consider Neanderthals, if not more so.

      • Agreed, and just wanted to point out hate groups can endorse whoever they want, doesn’t mean the candidates accepted the enforcements. The Trump campaign denounced the KKK enforcement and said they didn’t want anything to do with hate groups. Hillary Clinton actually also had a KKK supporter for a while there. Will Quigg from the California Grand Dragon chapter. He insisted he donated $20,000 to her campaign, which the DNC denied. So who knows. But her taking money from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, countries who also fund ISIS and have some atrocious views on women’s rights, really rubbed people the wrong way. You can go on zerohedge.com and see proof of some of the financial interactions, which someone screen shot just prior to them being deleted. It was another thing that didn’t do her any favors, being in bed with them.

        But anyways, here were some detailed mental health reform plans from Clinton & Trump. His are pretty vague. He mentions more community and family involvement, and gets into Obamacare and insurance reform with healthcare in general. Hers scared the crap out of me. The part about “infant mental health screening” terrified me. We already have kids as young as 4 or 5 being given benzodiazepines, adhd drugs and anti-psychotics, what’s next, infants? That wasn’t the only part I found scary..reading through it, it’s not hard to imagine how it would play out in real life:

        http://www.businessinsider.com/clinton-and-trump-on-healthcare-2016-9

        • Yes, Clinton’s plan was basically the same as the Mental Health Reform Act of 2016, also known as the “Senate Murphy” bill which, like Clinton herself, is seen by some “consumers” as the lesser of the two Murphys. But its Orwellian vision of merging physical, i.e. real, health and “mental health” systems, which includes the “early intervention” targeting of pre-schoolers, could in the long run be as or more destructive than the original Murphy.

          • The “early intervention” targeting of pre-schoolers and even infants is so absurd, that I am without words, as the desire of all these people, including Clinton, Murphy, and others we don’t even know is to create a society drugged to the max from birth to death. This is Orwell and Huxley at their worst and a their scariest. So, perhaps, Clinton’s los is to our benefit in that her Orwellian/Huxley-like mental health policy is now defunct, at least until someone picks it up. Of course, from what I can tell Trump has no ideas. I have an idea, except the evil exists in that it might kill the sea creatures and the sea; dump all these evil pills and their little friends (When, I say, friends, I don’t mean people. I mean all those evil medical devices)
            into the sea; like the Boston Tea Party. But, unlike the tea, this would kill the ocean creatures and the ocean, thus creating an environmental cataclysm of Biblical proportions that makes climate change look like it was one seed in the forest while this would be many, many forests. Thank you.

          • Exactly. Sounds all well and good on the surface, unless familiar with how our mental health system really works, and what would end up happening to people.

            (Oh and I just noticed my “endorsements” kept getting autocorrected to “enforcement”. Lol, autocorrect has a sense of humor.)

      • Addendum: In light of this Breitbart guy being appointed it seems as though Trump is either stupid or unconcerned about p.r. to a (serious) fault. At any rate these Breitbart people are racist pond scum he should have said goodbye to as soon as he won. I side with the establishment republicans here; it’s important to keep both factions watching their backs and at each others’ throats, politically speaking.

        This is the first concrete fucked up thing he’s done since the election for those keeping score. One thing that should make his shit easier to fight than that of the Democrats is that the contradictions will be very sharply drawn, without much vagueness or wiggle room.

          • Like I said, Trump — being an amateur at the political chess game — will be an easier target politically than Clinton would have been; one reason is his “talent” for bringing the system’s contradictions into sharp focus, to the point that the people have to take a stand. Democrats are better at obscuring contradictions and have mastered the art of Newspeak, to the degree that they can literally destroy a country like Libya while pontificating that “Love Trumps Hate.”

            Of course much depends on whether people choose to exert their power. The good news is that Democrats can right their mistakes in four years rather than eight, so the Bernie people should start fighting right now for his right to lead the party. Meanwhile we need to organize to hold off whatever Trump and the Repugs have in store, all the time demanding they keep his promise to substantially improve the economic status of working people.

  24. Mental Health system kill in one year 3 millions of maniacs,as most of normal people,named us.System
    isn’t run by Neo-nazis,also not by eugenics.Yet somehow,kill more maniacs in one year,as Nazis killed them
    from 1933 to 1945.If you are crazy and you read my comment,remember this.As then,also now normals
    don’t give a damn about,how our crazy brethren is destroyed now,by legal chemical genocide.If you are crazy remember,Mental Health system is destroyer and enemy No.1 of all us,who are crazy.To all those who don’t
    agree with my comment-you are either normal or payed activists.

    • Well, I’m certainly not paid to speak my truth of the matter and I hope to God I am not normal, given how the norm is not at all attractive or appealing to me at the moment. But I guess that’s really beside the matter because I do pretty much agree with your statement. At least, my version of this is–that the “mental health” system is insane and insane-making.

      Clearly, it is not the only institutional community in the world which can be described this way. However, the fact that it is called the MENTAL HEALTH SYSTEM and it is so insane and insane-making to just about anyone who comes near it (and I do mean anyone, in any role or capacity) then it is in a paradoxical league of its own–wayyyy out there, teetering on the edge.

      If the USA is such that it supports so fervently such an institution, then the irrationality of having our current president-elect does not surprise me. How could it? From one insanity to another. How could anyone desire to be of the norm these days? “Going crazy” from all this would seem like a natural survival defense, considering how “normal reality” actually looks and feels right now. Detaching from that reality would seem like a huge relief at this point.

  25. Pre trump, post trump, everywhere a trump, trump, it matters not. It’s all the same; before, “Resistance is futile.” After, “Resistance is futile.” When, I think of the “Borg” from Star Trek; I think a perfect metaphor for our time was created and is definitely expressed in the psychiatric enslavement system. I think my terminology, “Psychiatric enslavement” might come from a Dr Szazc book I have called “Psychiatric Slavery.”
    Before, I continue, in the state of North Carolina, there were many cases brought up just before the millennium concerning, in particular, African-American individuals, most falsely designated as “mentally retarded” and then sterilized.
    It is said, “be careful what you wish for” it might come true. This may be true for those of us who are psychiatric survivors who may have thought a Hilary Clinton presidency would be better because she is liberal and Democratic. I admit part of my aversion to Trump is that he is a businessman and he does have a record of discrimination against certain minority groups and if you discriminate against one group, it is way too easy to begin to discriminate against other groups. Like, I said, earlier, I did hear Clinton speak of the expansion of mental health and the parity issue; which already know leads to further exploitation, drugging, telling people they are defective and sick when they are just being who they were meant to be; etc. This where I think I did register in my gut, what they call now a disconnect; on one hand, she spoke of developing everyone’s potential and then on the other hand the same old mental health likes which in reality, steals the whole body, soul, and spirit of the person until the person becomes a zombie and then totally and completely just dies. Although, I see the “resistance is futile” is incredibly and tragically applicable here, I continue to resist! And, thus, I am reminded of another popular saying, “What doesn’t kill you makes you grow stronger.” and I also add, “What doesn’t kill you makes you become you,” And when you become you, you are almost like supergirl or superman; but please let’s keep that to ourselves or otherwise they will think you’re delusional and the evil process begins again. I have a question for this evening, “Who really is delusional?” The psychiatrists and their little buddies or the rest of us and the victim /”patient” who really do know the truth. Thank you

    • Sometimes resistance comes in unpredictable forms. And the fact that 20% of the population is dependent on some psych drug, with psychiatry concerned that too many people are “slipping through the cracks,” either screams “totalitarianism” to someone or it doesn’t. And is it not telling that Clinton claimed that children were her special concern, which she had devoted her life to.

        • You are 100% plus exactly right, “Fiachra.” Perhaps, the ultimate tragedy is that many of the psychiatrists and their “little helpers” believe they are helping people and making them healthy and better. Of course, they are those that do know the truth, continue their nefarious ways, and damage and kill people without seeming regret. The, look, you in the eye, lie to you, say you have some disease or defect (Which you don’t, never did, and if you have symptoms, they come from the drugs) and tell you lies, lies, lies, while your entire life slips out from under you. Although, we may need “politics” per say to defeat this “terrorism” to our souls, bodies and selves, this is not a “political” act. This is a criminal, terroristic that continues to go unpunished, because the public, government, etc. have bought these horrific, without decent or known words, absolute, damaging, fatal lies! Thank you.

    • Trump won the election by electoral vote but without the popular vote like Bush in 2000 (an ominous thought, seeing as Bush went on to win a second four year term). He received fewer votes than the losing candidates John McCain and Mitt Romney. I just hope people spend the next four years letting him, in no uncertain terms, know it. Although it may be unlikely, if we can get him out before his four year term is up, so much the better.

  26. Trump’s demeanor changed very quickly as president-elect. Trump is not what he appears to be. Mike Pence is exactly what he appears to be, and is probably the most terrifying person in the world right now. If Trump gets impeached or dies, Pence is the last guy we want with control over weapons of mass destruction.

    Trump just played everyone. He’s smarter than you think. Beg for a Trump Vs Pence presidency. Nobody should want Mike Pence as president.

    • JeffreyC, I agree with you that Pence would be alot worse but please don’t be fooled by Trump.

      http://www2.nybooks.com/daily/s3/nov/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival.html

      “”Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture.””

    • Jeffrey, you also might want to look at this article that proves that Trump is exactly who he says he is regarding hate issues.

      https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/11/13/white-nationalist-who-hates-jews-will-be-trumps-right-hand-man-white-house/214419

      And for you folks who hate liberals, yes, this is from a liberal site but has been posted on other newsites. And there is this quote from Republican strategist John Weaver:

      “”Just to be clear news media, the next president named a racist, anti-semite as the co-equal of the chief of staff” This is referring to Steve Bannon.

      • Like many white people Trump may not even understand what constitutes racism and what doesn’t. Keep in mind that the Clintons’ racist ACTIONS so far “trump” Trump’s racist-sounding words. We don’t need to argue about whether liberal or conservative racism is better, do we?

        • Despite everything, I think this, I “hope”, wakes up all intelligent Americans, with or without college degrees, that, tragically, after all these years the two party system is a “sham-circus” which bears absolutely no relationship to any of the America, they had rebelled against England for. Thank you.

          • “Despite everything, I think this, I “hope”, wakes up all intelligent Americans, with or without college degrees, that, tragically,”

            You went off on a tangent after that. Intelligent citizens of the United States never went to sleep.

            Also, you’re welcome.

      • for you folks who hate liberals

        Just to be clear AA, when I personally get down on liberals it’s not from a right-wing or “conservative” perspective; the whole “liberal-conservative” argument misses the point as far as I’m concerned unless you have the power or wealth to be liberal or conservative with. My own criticism of liberalism is from a left perspective (surprise) which sees liberals as constantly going around with their fingers in the wind; or as Phil Ochs once said, “ten degrees to the left of center in good times; ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.”

    • A plausible theory I’ve heard is that the Republican establishment could help set him up to be impeached, hence Pence, one of their own. We could start having funerals for fetuses.

      This is the part I mentioned where the Republicans start to devour one another. Again, I guess we’ll find out.

      • MIA staff ignore the report I hit the wrong link again.

        “A plausible theory I’ve heard is that the Republican establishment could help set him up to be impeached”

        Yes they absolutely could. That’s my whole point. He needs to tow the party line, but he’s not exactly what you think he is.

        Thinking about this another way; we have a president-elect who is a sexually deviant, racist, made fun of a great man with “disability”, said the most outrageous shit ever.

        My only fear is a hope (unfulfilled) damn I left that out I’m really glad MIA brought back the edit feature. I hope my theory about him is true; that’s he just trolled you all and manipulated the voters.

  27. “Better Life”, Thank you for the information about Lieberman, Kennedy, Murphy, et. al. I have seen Kennedy on television, speaking about his alleged Bipolar Disorder and how he wants to bring it to light to help others. I have seen the pop singer, Demi Levato, speak the same rhetoric. They have both been duped and now they are with the help of others, using their celebrity status or family/name connections to dupe a nation. I think Levato has been involved with NAMI. I guess, somewhere, in my heart the liberal/democratic side has “dirty hands” in this. But, then, Murphy is a Republican. I also am aware of the assertion on Bannon as anti-Semitic, pro-White, etc. Strangely and historically, anti-Semitism does seem to lead to the “locking up” etc of those the “state” would like to consider “insane” just because they are different. They, as usual, are not a “real threat”, but a “perceived threat.” Still, as a nation, I believe the very basis our founders sought to create might be our saving grace. However, as I see as a “cause”, “psychiatric enslavement” does have an uphill battle to convince the public. At the very earliest instance, we seek to speak the real truth, they will counter with lies, but make them seem as they are truth and we live in crazy, delusional world. But, just in case, the world seems to want to blow up in our faces, my father told me all about a place in the Blue Ridge/Smoky Mountains near where some of the Cherokee People hid out to avoid being forced onto the horrific “Trail of Tears.” Right now, the best thing for all of us to do is “hide in plain sight.” There is so much “delusional” thinking, words, and actions going on around on both the liberal and conservative sides, they are so busy, they will never find us critical thinking, intelligent thinking peoples. Thank you.

    • Rather than running around willy-nilly shouting “not my president” (which for me applies to just about every president I’ve known) people should be focusing on the many actual issues we ‘ll be presented with. The appointment of the Breitbart guy is ominous, as Breitbart was a scumbag racist and anyone who would honor him with a posthumous website probably is too. Likewise if he appoints Giulliani as Attorney General, which would bring me out into the streets. But I’m not going to be shouting “Hillary Really Won!” I assure you.

      But, then, Murphy is a Republican.

      And so were the ONLY two Congresspeople who voted against it.

  28. As for my last offer about the Blue Ridge/Smoky Mountains hideout, my father told me about; it depends on whether these beautiful mountains don’t burn to a crisp due to the drought and the hot summer and autumn. I think this might be the result of “climate change” one of the few recent things, science may have got right. But, then climatology and meteorology are real sciences as opposed to the hoax of “psychiatry” and the growing hoax of “modern medical science.” Thank you.

  29. My crazy brothers and sisters!
    Political diversity is for normals,our enemy is Mental Health system!If we aren’t bound to
    it’s total demolition,regardless of jobs inside this system,then we are really crazy.There is
    no need,to look on angry psychologists or psychiatrists,all of them will be without jobs!You are
    fired!Because they claim or madness on meta-physic emotions or on three magical substances!
    They exclude hormones for our problems,because they don’t want to be normals,with hormones
    balance in their brains.And we crazy/mad have imbalance of hormones in our brains.My ideas
    are for your freedom.Science lied about hormones in this matter for 50 years or more.Start
    with new movement-Occupy NIMH,soon!Occupy outerior of this building and you won first
    battle for all crazy people in history.You have to gather 10 000+ people to get mainsteam
    media cover.Even 5000 there all the time is enough.We shall see now,who will prevent a
    real insane slavic superstar!I hope that this won’t be MIA.We agree on ends only,the means
    are in crazy hands now.We have our future in our hands,if you stood for what I wrote above.

    By the way the idea,that the most famous Slovenian ever will be your and>>our<< new
    first lady,is for me very sad reality.Make sure that I am more famous then she is,because I
    have real biological solution for our problems and this is all what we ever need.

  30. At this point, with the election a nightmare candidate Trump, and then with psychiatry still continuing, I feel that we have to try and look at the larger picture. If we look only at a narrow field, then we are missing a broader pattern of cause and effect.

    So let me just try to briefly lay out a few ideas:

    1. Trump’s supporters tend to believe simple things like the Horatio Alger Ethic. They believe that everyone should be economically advancing themselves, just by hard work. And they believe that the poor deserve to be poor.

    2. Capitalism always depends on scapegoats. Usually this has been the poor, but also it is those presumed to suffer from moral or medical defect. And medical defects are always interpreted as moral defects. So we have had our scapegoats in racial minorities and immigrants. But that was back when there was a large need for labor. Today, we get our scapegoats directly from the middle-class family, deciding who is unfit and needs to be taken to the doctor ( drug or anti-drug ), and then making people into basket cases. Seeing this keeps the work force in line.

    3. The middle-class family is unlike anything which has ever before existed, reading pedagogy and child development manuals and having children by choice, all to enhance one’s social status. The middle-class family is the standard which is always being used, in the Right Wing politics of someone like Trump, and by psychiatrists and psychologists.

    And then as long as people believe that psychotherapy can solve their problems, or believe that street drugs or alcohol can solve their problems, what chance is there that they will refuse prescription drugs?

    So psychiatry, psychotherapy, the middle-class family, child abuse, social Darwinism, and eugenics, are all closely connected.

    So seeing this what do you think we should do about it?

    I say:

    1. Outlaw forced treatment
    2. Outlaw giving psych meds to children
    3. Enforce mandatory reporting, any therapy on children must be reported to Child Protection.
    4. Take profit out of Medical Child Abuse ( formerly Munchausen’s By Proxy ), parents are responsible for all harms inflicted, and disinheritance of one’s child is prohibited.

    Nomadic

    Move from Talk to Action, Please Join
    http://freedomtoexpress.freeforums.org/fighting-to-eradicate-the-mental-health-system-and-incarcerate-the-practitioners-f2.html

    Bernie Sanders on how Donald Trump won presidency
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlmuKtyhDKg

  31. “Engineer” Thank you. I never did think we were a country divided; as they 50% for Trump, 50% for Clinton. Actually, if we are a country “divided” it is 50% who voted, and 50% who did not. But, mostly, except civics teachers and the like who like to say to tell if you don’t vote, don’t complain. It is forgotten that just as we have the freedom to vote, we also have the freedom to not vote. Voting is usually higher in “less-free” nations. It is similar to the fact that we have the freedom to attend “church” or not, etc. They say freedom is a responsibility. Yes, but some forget that responsibility to choose. To choose not to vote is just as much your political statement and right as to choose to vote. And, I am sorry, civics teachers, the one who chooses not to vote has ever right to complain, protest, etc. This is one of the great things of living in nation that hopefully cherishes freedom. Thank you.

    • Paragraphs, please.

      “Actually, if we are a country “divided” it is 50% who voted, and 50% who did not.”

      It’s the electorate. The electoral college could still this over but they wont. Something like this happened in the Bush-Gore election.

      “And, I am sorry, civics teachers, the one who chooses not to vote has ever right to complain,”

      Absolutely agree.

      This is one of the great things of living in nation that hopefully cherishes freedom. Thank you.”

      once again, you are welcome.

  32. If Engineer and others who want to get rid of Trump continue using typically hypocritical and irrelevant liberal arguments based on playing with the vote count, manipulating the Electoral College, etc. they will guarantee themselves a long season of marching around and shouting their protests at the sky, and an endless reservoir of things to be outraged about. Hypocritical because if the situation with the popular vote had been reversed they’d still be popping the champagne, praising the wisdom of the Electoral College system, and calling those who challenged it as sore losers who knew the rules of the game from the start. Second, I would still oppose a Clinton scheme to steal the White House as vigorously as I have all her machinations all along. Both Clintons and both Bushes remain fit candidates for the International Criminal Court and little else, and shame on anyone who would try to reinstate any of them.

    If progressives are serious about ousting Trump they need the purge the neolibs from their ranks and make it clear right away that Bernie or someone like him (not that I know of any) is the heir apparent to the presidential nomination. In four years people might be more anxious to vote for him than they were to vote for Trump this year.

    However, seeing as they just chose Schumer as minority leader it’s obvious they are still pledging allegiance to Wall Street.

    • I pretty much quit trusting both parties when I learned that Tip O’Neil and Pre. Regan used to have drinks and cigars together in the late afternoons. I think O’Neil was Speaker of the House and he and Regan would go at one another hammer and tongs, in public. But behind closed doors they drank and smoked together like old buddies. I think that everything that the American people are allowed to observe about our politicians may not always be the reality that we think it to be. Neither party has the best interests of the American people at heart, certainly not the well-being of the poor and increasingly not the middle class. And neither party has any love for mad people and people with issues. Both want to drug us into oblivion. And I think your point about how many Americans are on some kind of psych med is important. A drugged work force would suit corporations and the drug companies very well. And it would suit the government too.

      • What a simple and brilliant example of the illusions of our society, Stephen. This is but one example, and I’d be the farm it is the norm. We have no idea what these folks are up to, really, and whatever it is, obviously, it has not been working, and you’re right, it is in no one’s interest but their own. That is the way of present time politics. It is about ego, money, and the illusion of power, and certainly not about being of service to the people they allegedly “represent.”

        “I think that everything that the American people are allowed to observe about our politicians may not always be the reality that we think it to be.”

        I’d say this is more than likely usually the case, if not always. Healing and personal growth have everything to do with facing hard truths and waking up to illusions. The media has served them to us by the trainload, for years and years.

        So then, what exactly is the reality of the situation? I have a feeling we’re about to find out, given how things are going at this point. Can’t wait for those revelations to occur, once and for all. Then, we’ll have a new game, finally. It’s about time!

        • I think that you are right. “Alex”, the “reality of the truth” is about to be revealed to the American people. For some Americans, they will never be able to accept it. Sadly, they will actually die with the illusion of what they thought it was. “Stephen Gilbert” I had also heard in addition to the smoking and drinking together, they also liked to watch “dumb sitcoms” together. The fact that we have Republican and Democratic Parties is truly an illusion. The fact that most people believe they are different politically is a “myth” promulgated by the “media” to a naïve and vulnerable susceptible population. I admit my guilt on this one, but, I ascribe it partially to first being drugged and then the sickness from the withdrawal and detox from those toxins. Finally, I heard someone in the media say, even before the election results that whoever wins, one of their jobs would be to heal a nation in conflict. What they forget is that healing begins from within the individual. It is not foisted unto us by anyone, much less any president. This is one of the thought processes that allows entrance our lives from the likes of the evil psychiatrists and their evil drugs. In which “drug pushing” is actually seen as “normal as apple pie.”

          • Rebel, I see your truth here and I’m in full agreement with it. Society will heal if, and only if, each of us, as individuals, takes responsibility for our own healing and personal growth. Those who do not are not able to be part of a healed society, by definition, because they will repeatedly externalize and manifest that which has not healed and integrated, until they once and for all deal with it head on, discovering and exploring their own innate wisdom of self-healing.

            For change to occur, at least with a level of ease and clarity that would make this kind of radical transition humanly manageable, I think it’s necessary to shift our perspective on things, from the inside. From that, change occurs in the environment, it is inevitable. That’s my truth, in any event, from my own experience.

      • Steve — I mentioned earlier the possibility of the remains of the old-line dems and repugs joining forces, and the Sanders movement taking over the Democratic Party. I still think the latter is the way to go if there is any hope at all of solving this stuff “within the system.”

    • “If Engineer and others who want to get rid of Trump continue using typically hypocritical and irrelevant liberal arguments based on playing with the vote count, manipulating the Electoral College, etc.”

      You’re not the same guy but you’re having problems with paragraphs too.

      >>

      “They will guarantee themselves a long season of marching around and shouting their protests at the sky, and an endless reservoir of things to be outraged about.”

  33. When everyone is getting paid by the same people regardless of supposed political agendas or party politics, I find the idea of two parties laughable. It’s just basic Western Political Propaganda and slight of hand. Think of Trump as a mixture of used cars salesman and P.T. Barnum. It doesn’t matter whether he fulfills his promises or not. In fact, most people didn’t even bother to find out that a large number of campaign promises from both parties throughout this election were never within even the power of the president. Most people don’t care. It’s this endless sniping and hate fueled atmosphere… This country is never more united than when it has someone to hate, and Trump sold the people exactly what they were looking for.

    • “It’s this endless sniping and hate fueled atmosphere… This country is never more united than when it has someone to hate…”

      It’s a shame we can’t unite over something to love, universally, as we do so easily over that which we hate.

      “…and Trump sold the people exactly what they were looking for.”

      What, a savior from all that threatening diversity? Coming together as a nation by marginalizing people? Well, yeah, that’s what many seem to want–unity by exclusion. I’m not at all clear on how this ultimate paradox could ever work, but something powerful is playing out from all of this, without a doubt. I very strongly feel that this particular combination of chaos and never-ending series of blatant contradictions is the precursor to imminent change.

  34. The republican party has spent the last eight years creating suspicions and unrest. For eight years, they promised they had more than enough evidence to impeach Obama… they insinuated that someone was stopping them… No one bothered to point out that the only people who could define an impeachable offense and begin proceedings were the very same people who had been talking about it for eight years. This seems like no big deal, but it makes people feel trapped and anxious.. insecure. Do you recall what led to the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich? The treaty of Versailles. When people feel small, persecuted. and afraid, finding someone who they can blame, marginalize, or oppress seems to be the first thing they look for. This country was founded by those seeking to escape persecution and oppression. Instead, they brought it with them and made it a national past time. I don’t agree with them, but I do see how we got here. All the times that we have gotten here.

    • I think you may be right. There seems to be a group of people who say they are being persecuted in our country for their religious beliefs. I think they are most probably “delusional.” I will not mention what they say are they, “religiously” I am curious, however, as to what you mean by the distinction between Religious Freedom and Freedom of Religion. Could you please clarify and how you believe it relates to our inherent freedoms as Americans?

      • Freedom of (and from) Religion is encompassed in our 1st Amendment rights of the Constitution, and while it does protect your right to believe, attest to follow etc any religion or lack there of that you so choose, it doesn’t promise absolute freedom to exercise those beliefs. In fact, it’s main focus is to limit the ability to establish a religion and to protect the state from religious bias and to protect religion from the corruptive powers of the state. Religious freedom is just the state taking advantage of a claim of religion to okay laws that would otherwise be found to be discriminatory. Because religion cannot be unduly burdened, a claim of doing just about anything for the sake of religion allows the state to go virtually unquestioned.

  35. All it would take is the President, the Democrats, and just a bit more than 1/3 of the Republicans and the Constitution could be amended right now to eliminate the electoral college, effective for this election.

    We could ask those most qualified, the 8 sitting justices of the Supreme Court, to write the amendment.

    Sometimes it is strange crises which force progress. Bring the United States forward out of the 19th Century.

    Otherwise with this claim of weekly contact with Russians and the FBI announcements, it’s “What did Trump know and when did he know it?” As it will be necessary to impeach him and require the same congressional 2/3rds.

    Obama missed his FDR moment when he failed to nationalize or even re-regulate the banks. Well now on his way out he can have an even greater moment by finally fixing our system so that every vote counts, and averting a disaster of epic proportions.

    Governing the most powerful nation in the world is nothing like a sporting match, as the stakes are so much higher. We all need therefore to think very hard about what is needed, and then do it.

    Nomadic

  36. That Electoral College is our legacy of slavery and 3/5’s.

    Avert the need for impeachment or a civil war, amend the Constitution right now and eliminate that Electoral College and Dump Trump.

    Making democracy work in the most powerful nation on earth is not anything like a sporting match, and we need to start understanding that.

    Nomadic

  37. Locally, cities are discussing sanctuary resolutions. Rightly so, they want to make sure that immigrants and minorities are not subject to abuses or humiliations.

    But when it comes to the homeless, they consider homelessness to be a mental illness. So they are building concentration camps with on-site “services”, meaning mental health services.

    The internment camp sanitizes the streets. The mental health treatment breaks down the final layer of human dignity which homeless people have, their privacy.

    Nomadic